Talked to admissions officer, this is what she said...

[powersr]

Let me start first with my stats as this is my first post here. Majored in biology/anthropology with a chemistry minor. Not a strong GPA because I didn't have any idea that I wanted to go into medicine until end of sophomore year and enjoyed college too much until this point. I pulled it together and improved my grades and showed an upward trend but ended up with only a 3.05 overall (ugh). I volunteered at a community health organization called SeaMar that catered to underprivileged and hispanic individuals. I was also a founding member of the pre med club and was a TA in anatomy. I also spent some time with an orthopedic surgeon in the office and in the OR. I went to meetings at the hospital near my school where all the docs talked about how to treat various cancer patients. I took the MCAT twice and got Bio10 Verbal10 and Physical6 the first time. The second time I got Bio9 Verbal10 and Physical11. If there are any questions about anything else feel free to ask.

Now I get to the point. After being rejected from about 15 schools this year (I still have to hear from Loyola Chicago) I had a meeting with the admissions officer at the University of Washington (my home school) and she told me what the committee thought about me. Their first impression was that i wasn't ready to be a doctor and needed more life experience, she even said that one person advised the peace corps. This is not a very reasonable thing because I have a life and bills to pay etc. Going into this meeting I was expecting to hear that my grades were holding me back the most and had researched special masters programs. She had mentioned that she liked this idea to improve my grades but life experience was more important to them. I feel that I have had good experiences but ones that don't exactly relate to medicine and we talked about them briefly (I spent about a month and a half living with locals in the Costa Rican rainforest during high school working on reforestation stuff). After leaving this meeting I felt that my personal statement was not as good as I had previously thought and that I need to write one that is more from the heart I guess (If anyone is willing to look at the one I wrote for the previous application cycle I would appreciate any feedback).

Ok so now I am rambling... Current things/Future plans:
-I just started volunteering in the ER at a hospital close to where I live and am anticipating that this will be good experience in the field.
-I am thinking about going abroad somehow and working there or volunteering to get "life experience" and "find myself" whatever that means. When the officer told me I need more experience, she was very vague.
-My current job involves meeting new and different people everyday and dealing with and troubleshooting problems. Not anywhere close to the medical field but involves personal characteristics that would be very useful in medicine.
-I am also tutoring a high school student in biology.

Any feedback or questions of any type are invited and greatly appreciated!

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[powersr]

Forgot to mention...
Should I pursue the idea of special masters programs? I am also thinking of just taking a whole year off to get life experience/work. I only applied to allopathic last year and plan on applying to osteopathic and allopathic next time around, this was a good idea according to the admissions officer

 

[gman33]

With your GPA, more life experience is the least of your problems. I don't think the admissions officer was being totally straight with you.
DO schools are becoming much more competitive as well, so don't expect much luck until you boost the GPA.

MD schools will require a ton of GPA work before you can apply. Probably 1-2 years of UG classes + a SMP. For DO schools, retake some of the classes with poor grades. DO this for a year, and you should be in much better shape.

The majority of med students have little to no "life experience" when they apply. I'm not saying that's good, but it's fairly true. I think some people don't like to tell you that the GPA or the MCAT are the most important things, but they really are. The other factors don't even matter unless you have at least reasonable stats.

 

[powersr]

At this point I have pretty much committed myself to doing a masters program in a year because of my grades (it's prob too late to apply to anything now). I feel that this would be a good way to show that I can improve my grades. I also don't think that retaking a bunch of undergrad classes would prove anything, correct me if I am wrong though.

 

[dragonfly99]

I think the problem is your grades,and perhaps if you don't have a job in medicine or science they felt you were not committed to the medical field.

I don't think you need to join the Peace Corps. That was a silly suggestion and as you said, you have bills to pay.

A 3.05 GPA is terrible for a med school applicant. I don't see you getting a MD school to accept you unless that is pulled up significantly. I think SMP or post-bac would be the way to go. You probably need to broaden your net outside of your one state school, as well, because they might decide not to accept you even if you reapply.

The ER volunteering is great...I would definitely keep that up.

I think the chance to be accepted to a DO school is >> a MD school, b/c the MD schools are going to be unforgiving about the GPA. You can definitely try both, though.

 

[powersr]

ya I think I am going to apply to mostly DO but a few MD, just ones that I really like. I have also read that a significant change in grades from undergrad to graduate is highly regarded. Are my chances of getting into MD programs still quite low even if I were to miraculously pull say a 3.8 in a grad program?

 

[Styria]

Although your GPA should be improved, it could be the case that your life experiences failed to set you apart from other applicants with a similar GPA. When discussion your application, the committee might have considered reasons to admit you in spite of your GPA, and decided that it just wasn't there yet.

 

[powersr]

That is the vibe that I got from the officer. She did stress the life experience part and only mentioned grades when I asked about them.

 

[dragonfly99]

It could be true that this particular school has decided they don't care a lot about your GPA, but 3.05 is very low for a med school applicant. You always want to give yourself the most options (in case you can't get into your state school). You need to apply to a whole bunch of schools next time...if you look at average GPA's for people accepted, no school has a 3.05...of course there will be people with > and < the average GPA, but to give yourself a better shot @med schools overall, it would be good to raise your GPA.

 

[LaTortuga]

Just a couple thoughts:

- Have you talked to other schools that you were rejected from? Calling and getting more feedback may help you focus on what needs to be tweaked. Granted, some schools will see different deficiencies ... but if you see overlapping suggestions you will definitely want to pay special attention to those weaknesses in your application.

- Grats on the nice MCAT improvement!

- Ugh, 3.05 uGPA is rather low. I think UWSOM recommends at least an average of 9 overall on the MCAT and >3.5 overall GPA. I don't know much about SMPs so I'll let others post advice. I have a family and needed to work/pay bills so I took undergrad courses as a nonmatriculated student through my employer's tuition exemption program. Granted, the courses only raised my uGPA by 0.05, showing a nice string of 4.0's definitely helped me during the application process.

- Keep up the volunteering in the ER ... but by all means, keep an eye out for shadowing opportunities. Watch procedures whenever you can. Talk to the docs and residents about what the practice of medicine is like. Their stories and your interactions with patients can give you something to talk about in your PS/interview.

- How long has it been since you worked with the surgeon/shadowed in his office/OR? And for how many hours did you follow him? If time has elapsed, you may want to see about returning to shadowing that doc, or another doc. Experience, experience, experience, plus continuity is important. It's great to have shadowing experience under your belt, but be sure to keep the new experiences coming.

- Dunno what to suggest for the life experiences. I was finally able to earn an acceptance this year ... without doing AmeriCorps, Peace Corps or going abroad. I immersed myself in biomedical research, teaching, and taking courses while working for 2 years before re-applying. I know it may sound stupid, but just think about what gets you excited and do it. Maybe try a different line of work that will get you more clinical experience/research experience, or help you develop your leadership skills, critical thinking abilities, etc.

- Personal statement. Did you have multiple readers critque it and offer suggestions? The best advice that I got for my PS is to make it personal and tell stories ... illustrate through example rather than buzz words. People tend to remember and respond better to stories than buzz words like dedication, leadership, and perseverance. Show the progression that lead you to choose medicine, and if you so choose, explain what you have done to explore this career path.

Hope these suggestions are helpful. If you have further questions, feel free to send me a PM.

 

[gman33]

At this point I have pretty much committed myself to doing a masters program in a year because of my grades (it's prob too late to apply to anything now). I feel that this would be a good way to show that I can improve my grades. I also don't think that retaking a bunch of undergrad classes would prove anything, correct me if I am wrong though.

Here's why I said to retake the UG classes.
Your UG gpa is very low. Just doing a 1 year SMP will probably still not make you a good candidate for MD schools. The thing that people don't talk enough about is that schools don't like taking people with poor stats because it lowers the mean stats for accepted students. Schools care about this stat because they think it makes them look like a better school if they have higher stats. So even if you do well in a SMP, you still have the 3.0 UG gpa that they have to deal with.

What I'm saying is that if you want MD, you need to get that UG GPA up a little BEFORE doing a SMP. Maybe 1-2 years of ug courses + SMP. The other problem with a SMP is that unless you do very well, you are virtually never getting into med school.

With all that, I usually tell people with your stats to just forget about MD schools and focus on DO. If you are going to apply to DO, you can retake ug classes and they will only count the retake in your overall GPA. This being the case, the fastest way to boost your chances is to just retake the ug classes. Retake any poor science classes first, but you can also retake non-science classes if needed. For example: if your gpa is really screwed up because you got 2 F's in accounting classes, retake them. It seems stupid, but it's all part of the game. It is very likely that you could get your GPA up to 3.5 in 1 year by following this process. Do that and you will have a great shot at DO schools. They will get you to the same place in the long run.

Hope that clarifies my original statements.

 

[flip26]

Both your GPA and MCAT are low. I think these 'trump' the life experiences issue.

You only spoke to one school, right? I would not base my plan of action on those comments alone. I think others are right that they were not very helpful - their comments about your lack of life experiences could be valid - but they did not do you any favors by allowing you to go away thinking your GPA and MCAT weren't a big part of the problem. Think of it this way: if you had applied with a 3.8 / 35, "life experiences" would not have held you back from at least a few interviews and acceptances...

An SMP is high risk - do poorly, and you can kiss med school bye bye forever. It would be far more productive for you to raise your GPA, and if you are truly considering DO, to do retakes of grades below C...you could use this time to really get up to speed on the MCAT - you have taken it twice, and that is a hurdle - but if you could raise that MCAT a few points, it could make a difference.

Final thought: your clinical exposure is not super clear to me - this could fall under the umbrella of "life experiences" that you were lacking.

 

[lainey234]

The thing that people don't talk enough about is that schools don't like taking people with poor stats because it lowers the mean stats for accepted students. Schools care about this stat because they think it makes them look like a better school if they have higher stats. So even if you do well in a SMP, you still have the 3.0 UG gpa that they have to deal with.

I think this is a very true statement. I applied with a 3.04/32 and probably 10 yrs of "life experience" more than you and I got soundly rejected from all MD schools I applied to. It is a numbers game and even less competitive schools still want better numbers than these. I had great luck with DO schools who were much more forgiving.

I think you could get into an MD program, but it will take more time and effort. You are probably younger than me and can easily afford to put the time in. Persoanlly, i would follow gman's advice. Raise the UG GPA for a year or two. That alone with a good MCAT might get your foot in the door if you apply broadly enough.

 

[amakhosidlo]

I actually think your adcom member (Dr. T?) was being honest w/ you. UW is pretty unique, especially wrt their IS applicants in that they put a HUGE emphasis on life experience. I've known people who were denied 2x with astronomical stats, simply because the committee thought they were just going through the motions and had no experience in the real world. Same year they admitted a couple 3.2's with established careers (I've heard they love nurses & techs). Your numbers problem may have been a given, but it's pretty safe to say she wasn't just blowing smoke...

As far as the 'not being ready' thing goes, that's really something you have to take their word on. They didn't pick it up by accident, and I get the feeling that they've been doing this long enough to be able to make that call.

What would stop you from doing the peace corp/TFA thing? They pay your way, and have loan deferment programs. $$ issues aside, it really is an impressive thing to have on your resume.

Honestly, if you're at all interested in trying UW again, I'd heed their advice (at least in spirit) If going abroad freaks you out, look into Americorps. Same principle, but you stay stateside, probably close to a local CC where you can spend your time off raising that GPA if you so choose.

 

[peppy]

I agree with gman. If I were you, I'd focus on applying to a lot of osteopathic schools next application season and retake some of the undergrad classes that are holding your GPA down.
Maybe your school in particular places a lot of importance on having unique or dramatic life experiences like the Peace Corps, but for many other schools, it is my opinion that your extracurriculars would be sufficient as they are if not for the GPA problem. It seems pretty clear that you have a sincere interest in medicine and understand what it's really like. Good luck to you!

 

[Transmogrifier]

I was rejected from UW on my first cycle and I got similar feedback from them. Though they were leaning more towards the "why" of being a doctor for me. Looking back at my old PS I can see how empty it was. My second round PS was much stronger after having some good patient experiences with volunteering. I worked those stories into my PS and a few interviewers brought them up. In any case, no matter your stats (and esp if they're low) a clear motivation for pursuing medicine is very necessary.

They want to know you've thought it out and considered other things. In my case I had a lot of computer experience and then genetics research experience. But I was able to give very good answers on why I didn't want to make a career out of those things. And more importantly why I wasn't just choosing medicine b/c I didn't like those careers.

Try talking to a few other adcoms if you can too. They'll all give you a totally different perspective on your app.

 

[mvenus929]

Think of it this way: if you had applied with a 3.8 / 35, "life experiences" would not have held you back from at least a few interviews and acceptances...

When I applied, I had a 4.0 GPA and a 36 MCAT. I got 4 interviews, but no one accepted me. Why not? Because I didn't have all those nice little life experiences... I was only 19-20 when I interviewed and hadn't done much in the way of clinical experience, or just experiences outside my school. I've been out of school for almost a full year now and I've grown so much in that year it's unreal.

Don't necessarily discount the fact that they said you need life experiences... they do know what they want out of the applicants. That being said, you should focus on bringing your GPA up a little.

 

[greg1184]

I always enjoy that term "life experiences". It is like they expect you to live under the bridge for a year just to feel what it is like. That is a life experience for sure. This is why Panda Bear's satire personal statement is so great. It makes fun of this garbage.


Just work on your clinical experience and improve your grades. Apply broadly. Be sure to focus on your clinical experiences in your application, showing how you have improved your appplication. Not all schools are so ambiguous on their requirements.

 

[flip26]

When I applied, I had a 4.0 GPA and a 36 MCAT. I got 4 interviews, but no one accepted me. Why not? Because I didn't have all those nice little life experiences... I was only 19-20 when I interviewed and hadn't done much in the way of clinical experience, or just experiences outside my school. I've been out of school for almost a full year now and I've grown so much in that year it's unreal.

Don't necessarily discount the fact that they said you need life experiences... they do know what they want out of the applicants. That being said, you should focus on bringing your GPA up a little.

Your problem is in your post - they rejected you out of hand because of your age, or because of something you showed (or did not show) in your interviews RE life experience, maturity, etc...

 

[fahimaz7]

What you need is 2 yearsvof great grades, while continuing to get medical experience. Is this your first cycle? You have a long roadbahead of you for a MD acceptance

 

[mvenus929]

Your problem is in your post - they rejected you out of hand because of your age, or because of something you showed (or did not show) in your interviews RE life experience, maturity, etc...

I am well aware why I was rejected. I was using myself as an example to counteract the point you made about how if you had stellar grades and stats, "life experiences" wouldn't have held you back from interviews and acceptances. I had the stellar grades and stats, and "life experiences" held me back from those acceptances.

 

[rocketbooster]

oh haha, the thing about your lack of life experience is not what killed you in your app. they just fed you some BS.

what killed you in your app was your GPA. WITHOUT A DOUBT, it was your GPA. you aren't going to get any MD interviews with a 30 MCAT and 3.05 GPA. you need to do an SMP this year, do amazing in it, and wait at least till next year to reapply.