Teacher's College at Columbia- Clinical Psych PhD

[mewtoo]

This difference is true historically, but the lines are blurring in recent years, and those from counseling programs are just as likely to work with severe mental illness as those from clinical programs (this really depends on where the particular student does his/her clinical practicum). Although, counseling programs are more likely to be based on a developmental model and study marginalized populations (e.g racial/sexual minorities, the poor) and clinical programs on a medical model.

My Psi Chi chapter went to Skyview Prison (prison for the mentally insane or those with mental ******ation who've committed crimes) and I know that our "tour guide" was a counselor who worked with the BPD and emotional problems wing. I'm not sure if they were phD's or not because they introduced themselves by their first names. I got the gist, however, that almost all of them were counselors and not clinical psychologists. If this isn't the place where you'd work with severe illnesses I don't know where you would.

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[Ollie123]

I'm not sure I'd say they are "just as likely" at this point - I still think you are FAR more likely to get things like inpatient experience, experience in certain specialties, etc. in a clinical program, and more likely to get things like career assessments (which I didn't realize clinically-trained folks even did until I worked in a CC) in a counseling program. The distributions certainly overlap more than previously, but I still think its safe to say that someone planning to work with inpatient alcoholics while studying the effects of DRD4 mutations on brain potential response to alcohol cues would likely have a tougher time doing so in most counseling programs than clinical programs, just as I wouldn't necessarily recommend clinical programs to someone whose interests were more in line with some of the things you mentioned. Granted there are many exceptions (as seen above) and you have to be careful because "Counseling" and "Counseling psychology" are not the same thing, but I think the general trend still holds.

 

[KillerDiller]

This difference is true historically, but the lines are blurring in recent years, and those from counseling programs are just as likely to work with severe mental illness as those from clinical programs (this really depends on where the particular student does his/her clinical practicum). Although, counseling programs are more likely to be based on a developmental model and study marginalized populations (e.g racial/sexual minorities, the poor) and clinical programs on a medical model.

I've heard this from others as well, but do you know of any research that shows the current averages are the same when it comes to working with SMI? I would be interested in reading it. The only article I have read (from the early 2000s I think) found average differences in both of the areas that I mentioned. FWIW, such distinctions are unlikely to hold up on the individual program level. Just as an example, I attend a clinical program that has a pretty heavy emphasis on developmental and cultural diversity models vs. the medical model.

 

[psigirl]

I'm not sure I'd say they are "just as likely" at this point - I still think you are FAR more likely to get things like inpatient experience, experience in certain specialties, etc. in a clinical program, and more likely to get things like career assessments (which I didn't realize clinically-trained folks even did until I worked in a CC) in a counseling program. The distributions certainly overlap more than previously, but I still think its safe to say that someone planning to work with inpatient alcoholics while studying the effects of DRD4 mutations on brain potential response to alcohol cues would likely have a tougher time doing so in most counseling programs than clinical programs, just as I wouldn't necessarily recommend clinical programs to someone whose interests were more in line with some of the things you mentioned. Granted there are many exceptions (as seen above) and you have to be careful because "Counseling" and "Counseling psychology" are not the same thing, but I think the general trend still holds.

Hummm...I think trainings such as inpatient experience seemed more up to the particular student's clinical interest as opposed to what they can or cannot get in a counseling/clinical program per se, students typically apply for practicums AND internship pertaining to their interests (this of course, varies widely, as I know some programs have their in-housing training sites, so this puts a limit on where and with whom the students work, but I think this is true for both clinical and counseling programs?) It is true that certain specialities (e.g. neuropsy, health psy) are typically offered in clinical programs and most if not all counseling programs offer some sort of career assessment training. And you're right in pointing out that if one wishes to work with certain underlying biological/genetic causes as they relate to psychopathologies, they would most likely find that kind of research in clinical programs (medical model), but I would think that this kind of research is probably done in research-heavy clinical programs and doesn't generalize to ALL clinical programs? So I'm just pointing out that there are probably more overlaps between the two traditions than undergrads/other people are led to believe.

I've heard this from others as well, but do you know of any research that shows the current averages are the same when it comes to working with SMI? I would be interested in reading it. The only article I have read (from the early 2000s I think) found average differences in both of the areas that I mentioned.

I don't know of any articles, but I know that traditionally, the VA is a strong hold for counseling psychologists, and its safe to say that there are plenty of SMI cases within the VA

FWIW, such distinctions are unlikely to hold up on the individual program level. Just as an example, I attend a clinical program that has a pretty heavy emphasis on developmental and cultural diversity models vs. the medical model.

I agree with you, personally I think there are more inter-program variations than inter-discipline (counseling vs. clinical) variations.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

I'm not sure if they were phD's or not because they introduced themselves by their first names. I got the gist, however, that almost all of them were counselors and not clinical psychologists. If this isn't the place where you'd work with severe illnesses I don't know where you would.

If they had PhDs in counseling psychology, they are psychologists, not counselors.

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, and not to attack you, but this is a huge pet peeve of mine--heading into a counseling psychology PhD program after attaining an MA in clinical psychology myself, I get very annoyed when clinical psych PhDs are called "clinical psychologists" and counseling psych PhDs are called "counselors". They're both licensed as psychologists. And it's either counseling psychologist or clinical psychologist if you want to get more specific. Furthermore, it certainly is common for a counseling psychologist to work in a prison. The difference between the two sub-disciplines is not that great. Counselors and social workers (masters-level) will also commonly work with severe illnesses in a clinical capacity, their specific job just depends on their role in the organization--in some ways, there is just as much crossover between masters-level clinicians and doctoral psychologists as there are between counseling psych and clinical psych.

 

[psigirl]

If they had PhDs in counseling psychology, they are psychologists, not counselors.

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, and not to attack you, but this is a huge pet peeve of mine--heading into a counseling psychology PhD program after attaining an MA in clinical psychology myself, I get very annoyed when clinical psych PhDs are called "clinical psychologists" and counseling psych PhDs are called "counselors". They're both licensed as psychologists. And it's either counseling psychologist or clinical psychologist if you want to get more specific. Furthermore, it certainly is common for a counseling psychologist to work in a prison. The difference between the two sub-disciplines is not that great. Counselors and social workers (masters-level) will also commonly work with severe illnesses in a clinical capacity, their specific job just depends on their role in the organization--in some ways, there is just as much crossover between masters-level clinicians and doctoral psychologists as there are between counseling psych and clinical psych.

Usually when someone's being referred to as a counselor, he/she is a MA level clinician. I haven't heard counseling psychologists being called "counselors", just like you wouldn't call a clinical psychologists counselor. But everyone can call them/us therapists!

 

[mewtoo]

I just mostly put counselors because its easier to type out than counseling psychologist. With clinical psychologists you can't really shorten like you can with counseling. There's not really a shorthand way to say clinical psychologists besides just saying clinical or clinicians, but then people may go "clinical what?" Clinicians can refer to many professions such as medicine, nursing, or psychology whereas for the word counselor it may refer to school psychology (such as a high school/ career counselor) or counseling psychology, but its all still psychology. At least that's how I, a lowly undergrad, interpret it. I can totally understand your annoyance with this, however. When you work so hard for something such as a phD you want it to be recognized. But I think it just mostly has to do with there not being equivalent words and not with a disrespect towards counseling psych. I'll keep your annoyance in mind and try to use terms better in the future, though.

Overall though, I believe they were masters-level so counselors would be the appropriate term.

 

[NYRangers1]

I think that it also depends on how the individual identifies themselves professionally.

 

[srabiee]

Okay, I didn't imagine the threads on Boston University being balanced

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=735417&highlight=balanced+phd+programs

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=623946&highlight=balanced+phd+programs

Weird, because I got the impression, like you all said, that it's heavily research oriented. Are these people wrong?

 

[NeuroPsi22]

accident.