Temple Dental

[indamouth]

This school seemed impressive during my interview. Does anybody have an idea on the school's over-all reputation?

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[ami15]

I've heard that they're really good with giving you clinical experience.

 

[groundhog]

Temple is a great school. Repeating what others have said here, the school you choose should be the one that fits you best. Going to Temple would be like opting for the infantry if one were to choose their preference for duty while assigned to the military. You will be on the front lines and be provided with a tremendous load of patients who are very poor and have serious dental problems. By your third year, you will have, in effect, your own practice. You will not only be performing clinical procedures, you will also be responsible for collecting your fees and handling those who miss or arrrive late for their appointments. I would say Temple is a down in the trenches blue collar dental school. You will learn your trade and learn it well at Temple. You will have the opportunity to make a real difference in the lives of your patients at Temple Check the second board stats. Temple students smoke the second boards. Good luck to you.

 

[Tabi]

where can I find the stats on the performance of Temple dent students on the National boards pt. 1 and 2?

 

[indamouth]

Thanks groundhog. Sounds like you know the school pretty well. What does blue-collar refer to? And besides research being a possible factor in considering yourself a possible match with a school (not Temple). What might be some other important factors to consider. Thanks for your help.

 

[groundhog]

To indamouth
Well, "blue collar" to me means no frills and no prima donnas. Just down to earth students, staff, and faculity who work hard and have a good time doing so. Hope that helps.

 

[dds2b]

hey people, here's a quote from an email a fourth year dental student sent me a couple months ago. I asked her about Temple dental and here is what she responded.


"If you had a good impression of the school I don't want to ruin it.
Persoanlly if I could do it again I would have gone elsewhere. This school
leaves you with a bitter taste. Granted if you can put up with the laziness
of the staff here, deal with the run around here, then the clinical
expereience is good.

By the way, you are personally responsible for the payment of your patients
work if your patient doesn't pay. In order to graduate form this school, if
your patient's bill for services rendered here is not paid, you do have to
fork out money. I have heard studnets owing up to $2000! So with his
inside info. I hope you find the school you are looking for."

 

[groundhog]

Refer to dd2b above post.
The school you choose (if you have options) really depends upon what you are hoping to gain from your total education. Yes, at Temple, you are responsible for patiests who don't pay their bills, but most students get into big problems in this area because they continue to provide treatment to patients who establish poor payment histories (I have heard that the male students seem to have a bigger problem in this area than the female students) I don't know what is meant by lazy staff. I think maybe the Temple faculty gives greater freedom to 3rd and 4th year students in the clinics than is normally found in other schools, but that may result from a proven apprenticeship form of training which puts you in a pressure cooker while leaning the real time hands on skills of your trade(pain trains). Everything else aside, isn't what dd2b quotes a bit of the real world that a practicing dentist may have to confront? If so, why not be prepared for it in school?

 

[indamouth]

Good comments. Pretty surprising on the financial responsibility part. I mean, do they let you take home a check at the end of school if you turn a financial profit?!? Of course not! Seems like a terrible conflict of interest with a patient population who would normally have tremendous difficulty in paying. Let's say I give treatment one time, they don't ultimately pay, I turn them away. I eat the bill. Nice way to be in debt to the school the beginning of my 3rd year. How do I ever make up the debt without a profit upside? Weird! In one of my interviews one DDS said, " The greatest lesson I can teach you about dentistry is never, ever, talk to your patients about the price of your services." He always delegated it to his office staff and he thought it kept patients from seeing $$$ signs while he was doing root canals.

 

[Cavitybuster215]

I'm going to be completelty honest here because I wish people were honest with me before I went to Dental School.
As a graduate of Temple Dental school I want to tell everyone who hasn't started paying tuition there yet that ITS NOT TOO LATE TO TURN AROUND!
Do yourself a favor and don't go to Temple Dental School. Kornberg School of Dentistry completely lacks concern for students, provides no guidance, has bad admin and faculty, and is terribly and unfortunately mismanaged.
If you have any further questions just ask.

 

[mystery84]

@Cavitybuster215 can you confirm or deny that dental students are financially responsible for their patients payments

 

[Incis0r]

I'm going to be completelty honest here because I wish people were honest with me before I went to Dental School.
As a graduate of Temple Dental school I want to tell everyone who hasn't started paying tuition there yet that ITS NOT TOO LATE TO TURN AROUND!
Do yourself a favor and don't go to Temple Dental School. Kornberg School of Dentistry completely lacks concern for students, provides no guidance, has bad admin and faculty, and is terribly and unfortunately mismanaged.
If you have any further questions just ask.

Can you please share when you graduated from Temple? (perhaps things have changed between then and now?)
Also, can you specify what you mean by "completely lacks concern for students." This is troubling and if you can substantiate on this, I will look into Temple more and reconsider sending them an Application for Admission.

@Cavitybuster215 can you confirm or deny that dental students are financially responsible for their patients payments

I am interested in this too.

 

[toothdriller2k17]

Interesting replies above... while I agree with some of the concerns, I really don't see any issues that you won't encounter at other dental schools. Students should be responsible for ensuring that patients pay for the procedures provided. If you run the course of a whole treatment (say crown, bridge, denture etc.) and the patient doesn't pay you are doing something wrong. wholeheartedly disagree with this. a student is there to learn dentistry. there will be a time and place to learn the ins and outs of the financial aspect of dentistry. chasing down a patient and ensuring that a patient pays is an added headache which you shouldn't have to deal with in school. you're already trying to get your requirements and any added experience out of the way. This seems to be an issue of the past, as of now the financial staff won't let you start most advanced procedures without proof of payment. To do otherwise would be irresponsible and lead to bad habits that would carry over into your private practice. Learning how to work with insurance/collecting payment for the work that you provide should be part of every student's experience at every school. maybe this is a difference in your patient pool, but if you're dealing with mostly medicaid patients that's something that you LIKELY won't have to deal with in your private practice, unless you own/work at a medicaid mill . medicaid policies change way too frequently and often differ from state to state (from a pricing and reimbursement perspective). you'll be able to pick up the basics just by virtue of treating your patients in school, but again, having that extra financial responsibility over your head should not be your concernThe main procedures you will run into problems with are routine fillings, SRP, Prophy, and other routine treatments. If you simply adopt a mindset of not starting a procedure until your patient has paid you will never run into a problem or have to pay out of pocket for a procedure.

I really don't think there is much truth to the administration 'lacking concern' for the students. There have been instances where I have questioned certain decisions made by the administration (changing curriculum, required documentation in the clinic, etc.), but overall I think the administration wants to produce strong clinical dentists and provides a system where students can do just that. Temple is a school that isn't for the faint of heart. Choose another school if you expect to be babied by the dean/administration/faculty. At Temple they expect you to be self-reliant in the clinic and to manage your patients like you would in a private practice setting. The experience is a 'you get what you put in' type of deal. With the right attitude and work ethic you will receive a top notch clinical experience which is attributed to the demographic and abundance of patients. I would say there are very few schools that will provide a similar workload, and exposure to more complex procedures in your third year.

It would be stupid of me to say though that the school is perfect. At times the clinic is a little unorganized. There are 140 students to 6 faculty.....what do you expect. There are a million unnecessary documents you constantly have to fill out (it's the same everywhere), some didactic classwork is a really weak, there is absolutely nothing to eat up here, and 2 blocks in any direction is about as run down as it gets.

Moral of this long post is don't run away from an interview because of something one graduate says. Everyone has a different experience, and the school overall has a good reputation for producing great clinicians which in the end is all that matters. Doesn't matter where you go, those 4 years are gonna be rough and there will be a lot of learning curves.

PM if you have any other questions, and sorry for any typos/bad grammar. Too tired to care

 

[Incis0r]

Hmm, in that case, it doesn't sound bad at all. @Swoops thank you. TBH, Temple is in my shortlist (top 5). And I wouldn't mind learning the financial aspect of dentistry.

Can you comment more on the clinical side of things? Do students get a ton of endo, OS, and perio experience? How about crowns?

Oh and one more thing- what's the weather like in the winter?

 

[pulltheleverkronk]

@Incis0r I'm from Pennsylvania- really manageable. Moderately cold. Nowhere near the Midwest's level of cold (where I go to school), although my parents said last year was a particularly bad winter. I've lived there for over a decade and have never really had a problem, apart from having to scrape my car windows every other morning in deep winter. What state are you from?

 

[member012]

Current 1st year at Temple, really enjoying my experience thus far. I won't have any clinic experiences for a few more weeks, but I can say that I really haven't heard much negativity from D3/D4s regarding clinical experience. Any negative experiences usually involve crazy things with patients and not issues with the faculty. As far as endo, OS etc. all students are required to make rotations through the specialties during their time in clinic, so yes, you will get experience. I can also say that a majority of the professors I have had thus far are extremely caring and really want everyone to succeed. The professors overall are much more "nurturing" than the professors I had in undergrad for whatever that is worth. A new dean was hired at Temple a few years back, and he really worked hard to change the culture at Temple to one where professors are flat out not allowed to belittle students.

Feel free to PM me with questions

 

[Incis0r]

@Incis0r I'm from Pennsylvania- really manageable. Moderately cold. Nowhere near the Midwest's level of cold (where I go to school), although my parents said last year was a particularly bad winter. I've lived there for over a decade and have never really had a problem, apart from having to scrape my car windows every other morning in deep winter. What state are you from?

The cold, cold, Northeast. And I'm sick of the early nights (pitch-dark at 5pm!), freezing wind chills. I don't want to deal with 4 more years of this. Your parents were right- it was a particularly bad winter. It seems like global warming has skipped us entirely. What school do you go to?

Current 1st year at Temple, really enjoying my experience thus far. I won't have any clinic experiences for a few more weeks, but I can say that I really haven't heard much negativity from D3/D4s regarding clinical experience. Any negative experiences usually involve crazy things with patients and not issues with the faculty. As far as endo, OS etc. all students are required to make rotations through the specialties during their time in clinic, so yes, you will get experience. I can also say that a majority of the professors I have had thus far are extremely caring and really want everyone to succeed. The professors overall are much more "nurturing" than the professors I had in undergrad for whatever that is worth. A new dean was hired at Temple a few years back, and he really worked hard to change the culture at Temple to one where professors are flat out not allowed to belittle students.

Feel free to PM me with questions

Thanks for the information- do you mind if I just ask you some questions here (after all this is a Temple thread + other people will be helped by your answers)?

I guess my main questions for you (since you are a D1) are:
1. Are lectures videorecorded/can you watch from home?
2. What's your typical daily schedule like?
3. How overwhelmed do you feel with workload?
4. What clinical experience will you be starting in a few weeks (you mentioned you don't have any yet but you expect to in a few weeks)- assisting/hygiene?
5. What have you done in preclin at this point?
6. Cost of living? How much for a 1BR on your own near the school?

@incisor Temple has a very strong reputation for providing an above average clinical experience. From day 1 it's pretty obvious that it's what they are going to focus on. The patient population here is HUGE. The number of patients per student has to be one of the highest amongst dental schools (nothing to back that up, but trust me). Your first day in the clinic you are expected to know how to do everything. They don't ease you in at Temple. If you first patient needs 20 teeth extracted, and complete dentures they expect you to be ready to do it and will let you do it as a Junior. Obviously some of it comes down to being lucky and getting patients that need a lot of work, but you will gain more experience here and see a wider variety of necessary treatment than you will at a lot of places just because of how diverse and large the patient pool is. In terms of specialty cases, some you see a lot of and some you don't. Unfortunately (and this is probably true for most schools) Endo is probably the hardest thing to come by at Temple. The reason being there is so much poverty around the school. Most patients insurance won't cover the Endo and the crown, and patients paying cash would rather pay the $90 to get the tooth pulled than to save it for 1,000 (after crown). With that being said, everyone see's enough to graduate but it's not our strong point. OS depends on how bad you want it. There is more than enough to go around. If you hang out in the OS clinic when you don't have anything to do you will pull a TON of teeth by the time you graduate. Perio is pretty common up here too because the oral hygiene is so bad. Every other patient seems to need SRP here. Crowns are pretty common, and bridges are up there too. Dentures as well.

The first few sentence of this response excited me so much -

"Temple has a very strong reputation for providing an above average clinical experience. From day 1 it's pretty obvious that it's what they are going to focus on. The patient population here is HUGE. The number of patients per student has to be one of the highest amongst dental schools (nothing to back that up, but trust me). Your first day in the clinic you are expected to know how to do everything. They don't ease you in at Temple. If you first patient needs 20 teeth extracted, and complete dentures they expect you to be ready to do it and will let you do it as a Junior. Obviously some of it comes down to being lucky and getting patients that need a lot of work, but you will gain more experience here and see a wider variety of necessary treatment than you will at a lot of places just because of how diverse and large the patient pool is"

But then this showed up:

"Unfortunately (and this is probably true for most schools) Endo is probably the hardest thing to come by at Temple. The reason being there is so much poverty around the school. Most patients insurance won't cover the Endo and the crown, and patients paying cash would rather pay the $90 to get the tooth pulled than to save it for 1,000 (after crown). With that being said, everyone see's enough to graduate but it's not our strong point."

(Wait quick question- you say here that Endo + Crown is hard to get due to insurance, but later you say Crowns are common? Are those just crowns w/o endo but they're covered by insurance? This could be a redeeming quality!!!). Unfortunately, I really do want to test my hand at Endo. I've enjoyed learning about the specialty and shadowing its practitioners. While I am intent on going into general dentistry, I do want a school which could give me a good foundation. Perhaps I'd get that experience in an AEGD (which I intend to do anyways even if I go to a strong clinical school like Temple).

"As far as weather goes, I have to disagree with @pulltheleverkronk I've spent 5 years + in the Midwest and rocky mountain area and the last 2 winter's here have been worse than any I've experienced anywhere else (although they may have been abnormally bad). So cold, so much snow, so windy, pure misery. I hate the winter here... I'm getting depressed just thinking about it."

I COMPLETELY agree with you on winter-hate. It's BRUTAL. TBH it may sound silly but I'm actually considering weather a ton when I look at where I want to go. My friend goes to a med school in Cali, and she's just enjoying the beautiful Sunshine while I'm shivering, fighting the flu/getting one after another layer on me just to survive the outdoors. Hate to say it, but if I am offered an acceptance at a Cali school or a school with warm weather and an acceptance to Temple or any other northeastern school, and the cost is the same and both programs are respected, I'm not going to be choosing the northeastern school...and the SOLE reason will be the weather. Winter makes me depressed too. Mild snow isn't bad, but the intensity we had last year is just....ugh.

 

[toothdriller2k17]

Just to be clear, this really isn't that much of headache. It pretty much entails walking your patient to the cashier before or after the procedure and filling out preauthorization forms for prosth/SRP. Maybe it's just the way were taught here, but I think that understanding the in's and out's of insurance is part of learning dentistry. I personally would rather have a head start learning the 'financial aspect of dentistry' as it is something you will be dealing with on a daily basis at your future practice (we don't just work with medicaid). Especially given the fact that it doesn't interfere with your clinical training/graduation requirements in any way....

It really isn't an issue and shouldn't turn people away from the school. It's something that is completely overblown...that is all I am trying to say. I haven't heard of one person having to reimburse the school for a procedure that wasn't paid for since I got here.

well we do that as well..after treatment planning, the patient has to be brought to a financial manager to discuss what insurance/medicaid will or won't cover. i guess the idea of tracking down patients who haven't paid or whatever shouldn't be (and isn't in my school) the responsibility of the student. if a patient comes in, has an initial exam for instance, then leaves right after checking out without paying...their account is locked until they pay the balance, simple as that.

 

[Incis0r]

well we do that as well..after treatment planning, the patient has to be brought to a financial manager to discuss what insurance/medicaid will or won't cover. i guess the idea of tracking down patients who haven't paid or whatever shouldn't be (and isn't in my school) the responsibility of the student. if a patient comes in, has an initial exam for instance, then leaves right after checking out without paying...their account is locked until they pay the balance, simple as that.

What school?

 

[member012]

I guess my main questions for you (since you are a D1) are:
1. Are lectures videorecorded/can you watch from home?
2. What's your typical daily schedule like?
3. How overwhelmed do you feel with workload?
4. What clinical experience will you be starting in a few weeks (you mentioned you don't have any yet but you expect to in a few weeks)- assisting/hygiene?
5. What have you done in preclin at this point?
6. Cost of living? How much for a 1BR on your own near the school?

1. Lectures are recorded and can be accessed from home, most classes can be skipped if you really want. Attendance is pretty good overall, not like undergrad.
2. 1st semester of D1 is the easiest schedule by far. M 9-4, T 8:30-5, W 9-4, Tr 9-5, F 9-4 but about twice a week we start at 1 on M or Tr
3. Workload is a big step up from undergrad. I went to Temple undergrad and can say that we were expected to have a more detailed and thorough understanding of material in undergrad as compared to the same classes in dental school, the difference if just the quantity of material and how fast it is delivered. Its hard at first, but after a few weeks you get used to it.
4. Assisting a few times for half a day
5. Preclin has been mostly waxing as you would expect. We have done wax ups of central maxillary incisor, mandibular lateral, maxillary canine, maxillary 1st, mandibular 2nd premolars, maxillary 1st molar, alginate impressions and stone models for articulation, and pouring plaster for study models. Preclin has been a really great experience thus far. Really hard and frustrating at times but everyone is helpful and willing to share techniques. It really helps to ask multiple professors if you are struggling because they all have different backgrounds and learned different techniques.
6. Very few people live near the school because the neighborhood is not good. Temple provided a really detailed housing packet over the summer before school and I remember places ranging from like 700-1300 depending on location. I would say 50% of my class lives in Center City Philly and you are looking like 1100. The rest live in an outlying area and your more around 800 there. Philly is cheaper than many cities, significantly cheeper than many east coast cities. Just depends on what you want in a place.

 

[Cavitybuster215]

@mystery84 Temple students are not ,technically, finanicailly responsible for their patients payments, but if you do not collect you cannot deliver the crown or denture and therefore, cannnot get the credits to graduate. As a student you cannot pay for your patients balance. If a patient has a balance on their account you will not be allowed to see the patient. Temple also does insurance pre-authorizations through snail mail, although the dean is unaware and thinks they are done electronically. This is not the same for other schools.
To answer another question from before I am a recent graduate, but prefer not to say what year. But have friends still there that say things haven't changed and in fact, have gotten worse.
As for the D1 that talked about attendance, member012, although all the classes are filmed attendance is MANDATORY and strictly enforced through multiple sign in sheets. It's sort of like high school in that regard.
Swoops is incorrect in most of what he/she said and is most likely a D1/D2.
As a graduate, I only know a couple people that are happy with their education at temple and they are in the temple residencies. Out of my friends that are current D3 or D4's, I haven't heard one say they are happy with the school, and particularly not happy with the administration.
If anyone has any questions please message me on here or email me at [email protected] -real email.
I'll be completely honest with anyone that wants to know or has questions.
Good luck.

 

[vicsin]

I just graduated from Temple if you have any questions you can PM me as well !
I'd like to say that I am overall happy with my experience at Temple. In terms of clinical education you get what you put into it. You are responsible for scheduling your patients but the school provides you with all the patients you need. I had like 50 patients to manage at one point. You can even pick up patients from various clinics or bring your own family/friends in so there is no limitation there. If you are proactive and communicate when you are lacking in clinical requirements you should be able to easily complete the requirements on time. I was done in February. Starting D3 you can book patients 5 days a week 2 sessions a day so really you can do tons of work if you want to (this is a major improvement from previous years). The payments can be an issue and yes students have to make sure their patient pays the bill and most of our patients are poor. You have to learn to work with that- find alternative plans, space out procedures in regards to finances etc. If the patients have a balance you are not responsible for it- you simply can't see them till they pay. Also you can't start an expensive procedure until you get a stamp for payment proof so it's really on the student if they try to bypass that in desperation to get work done. You have to stay on top of your patients and that goes for real life as well. Do you plan to do work for free? Don't try to do it free during school.

I agree the endo experience is weak but you can do more if you try. We have a lot of emergency endo rotations so you do decent amount of pulptomomies/ectomies. Endo requirement is 6 canals and its pretty doable though some struggle. Crowns are not as hard to come by- each student is required 15. Some do 20+. Lots of fillings, perio, oral surgery experience. Overall I was satisfied. And I felt that most of my faculty especially in clinic were kind and helpful. They want to make you a strong dentist who can think and perform and make decisions critically. Of course there's also bad professors- that goes for any school.

The didactics are no picnic but it flies by and you get used to the workload as the curriculum picks up. By the time you're a 3rd year didactics are a breeze. Lab work+exams first two years is challenging to balance but everyone managed. We all had our set backs but you will have friends in class who are going through the same thing and the support is very helpful. You get through the tough times and come out stronger. I stressed a lot at first but it got easier and 4th year especially was very relaxing. People will complain about anything every chance they get. I complain plenty myself. I am so happy to be done with this place but I'd feel that way anywhere. I am happy I chose Temple. We are well prepared for boards and clinical practice. It is priced better than any other private school I've seen. Also take advantage of the scholarship offers. I did that and I am in much less debt than I would be even from a state school. Temple should be high on anyone's list of potential dental schools.

 

[BeaverLover]

I just graduated from Temple if you have any questions you can PM me as well !
I'd like to say that I am overall happy with my experience at Temple. In terms of clinical education you get what you put into it. You are responsible for scheduling your patients but the school provides you with all the patients you need. I had like 50 patients to manage at one point. You can even pick up patients from various clinics or bring your own family/friends in so there is no limitation there. If you are proactive and communicate when you are lacking in clinical requirements you should be able to easily complete the requirements on time. I was done in February. Starting D3 you can book patients 5 days a week 2 sessions a day so really you can do tons of work if you want to (this is a major improvement from previous years). The payments can be an issue and yes students have to make sure their patient pays the bill and most of our patients are poor. You have to learn to work with that- find alternative plans, space out procedures in regards to finances etc. If the patients have a balance you are not responsible for it- you simply can't see them till they pay. Also you can't start an expensive procedure until you get a stamp for payment proof so it's really on the student if they try to bypass that in desperation to get work done. You have to stay on top of your patients and that goes for real life as well. Do you plan to do work for free? Don't try to do it free during school.

I agree the endo experience is weak but you can do more if you try. We have a lot of emergency endo rotations so you do decent amount of pulptomomies/ectomies. Endo requirement is 6 canals and its pretty doable though some struggle. Crowns are not as hard to come by- each student is required 15. Some do 20+. Lots of fillings, perio, oral surgery experience. Overall I was satisfied. And I felt that most of my faculty especially in clinic were kind and helpful. They want to make you a strong dentist who can think and perform and make decisions critically. Of course there's also bad professors- that goes for any school.

The didactics are no picnic but it flies by and you get used to the workload as the curriculum picks up. By the time you're a 3rd year didactics are a breeze. Lab work+exams first two years is challenging to balance but everyone managed. We all had our set backs but you will have friends in class who are going through the same thing and the support is very helpful. You get through the tough times and come out stronger. I stressed a lot at first but it got easier and 4th year especially was very relaxing. People will complain about anything every chance they get. I complain plenty myself. I am so happy to be done with this place but I'd feel that way anywhere. I am happy I chose Temple. We are well prepared for boards and clinical practice. It is priced better than any other private school I've seen. Also take advantage of the scholarship offers. I did that and I am in much less debt than I would be even from a state school. Temple should be high on anyone's list of potential dental schools.

Thanks for the response, do you mind if I ask how much of a scholarship and the difficulty of obtaining one?

 

[vicsin]

https://dentistry.temple.edu/admissions/cost-financial-aid
You can see a list of possible scholarships here. Some are given to a few students. Some are given to many students. Some you apply for before you even start school. I don't think that many people apply so there's a good chance to get them if you keep your eyes open for them. Try for it but of course don't assume you will get one . Without any scholarships I believe students graduate with 300k debt which is much less than most private schools and only a bit higher than state schools at 250k. If you keep your living costs frugal by sharing apartments, not living in center city you can lower that amount as well.