Texas hospital not hiring obese doctors

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While I can understand what the hospital is thinking to "practice what you preach", it's quite unfortunate. I can't imagine an obese physician telling an obese patient to lose weight being taken seriously by the patient. It's still unfair for those employees. How do you feel about it?
 
That would theoretically only apply to a primary care doctor right? Surgeons for the most part...but I take that back, in follow up clinics they might "suggest" to lose weight which is fair. Personally, the surgeons I observed in clinic had the "not my problem" attitude.

But what about the Emergency Med docs for example? And besides the path/rads/gas specialties, where being obese doesn't have an impact at all on their role as physician role models.
 
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That would theoretically only apply to a primary care doctor right? Cause an obese surgeon isn't going to try to convince the obese patient to lose weight, at least from personal experience they say "Not my problem!" with a big grin.

unless you're a bariatric surgeon.
 
There is a prominent researcher (phd) in the field of obesity and type II diabetes who is very overweight. He was giving a talk at a conference I attended and it did look a bit funny to watch an overweight individual discuss research done on animal models of obesity. But at the same time, it's almost like he has more motivation and passion for his field of research because he deals with this condition himself. So from another perspective, an overweight physician might appear more sympathetic and less judgmental towards overweight patients since he knows what they are going through....
 
To start, BMI is a stupid way to define this rule. What about the muscled bodybuilders with a BMI of >35 but no significant excess of body fat?

I otherwise don't have any moral objection to it. At a certain point, I think it can be acknowledged that you may even be losing money on some employees over others who are more fit for an active job.
 
To start, BMI is a stupid way to define this rule. What about the muscled bodybuilders with a BMI of >35 but no significant excess of body fat?

I otherwise don't have any moral objection to it. At a certain point, I think it can be acknowledged that you may even be losing money on some employees over others who are more fit for an active job.

So do you think a BMI of 35 via muscle is healthy?
 
I think this is a very slippery slope.
 
I think it's a mistake to assume that because someone is obese, they are not living/do not know anything about a healthy lifestyle.

I was always a normal weight until I started taking a particular medication for a chronic health condition and put on 30 pounds. I have seen a dietician and eat better than most people I know, and exercise regularly. Now admittedly my BMI is only something like a 28 which is not nearly the same as a 35 but I still think it's a mistake to assume that much about someone's knowledge and habits based on appearance.

Besides are we going to start firing physicians who smoke? Or don't walk to work? Or drink too much?
 
So do you think a BMI of 35 via muscle is healthy?

Although that is a lot of muscle, I don't have any reason to think it's particularly harmful, and certainly not to the degree that being morbidly obese would be. Should I?
 
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To start, BMI is a stupid way to define this rule. What about the muscled bodybuilders with a BMI of >35 but no significant excess of body fat?

Are there lifters with a BMI of 35 or over? I know BMI gets wacky when we're talking about extremes in muscle but I thought top bodybuilders only reach a low 30 on the BMI scale.

I had an obese pediatrician and found it hard to take his advice, even though, in hindsight, he was spot on. I understand the proposal. That said, weight is one of those things we can legally discriminate on and while this personally sickens me, I feel this hospital should be able to do it. If they want to pass on a good doc b/c of his or her lifestyle choices, so be it. That doctor can take his or her services elsewhere.
 
I think it's a mistake to assume that because someone is obese, they are not living/do not know anything about a healthy lifestyle.

I was always a normal weight until I started taking a particular medication for a chronic health condition and put on 30 pounds. I have seen a dietician and eat better than most people I know, and exercise regularly. Now admittedly my BMI is only something like a 28 which is not nearly the same as a 35 but I still think it's a mistake to assume that much about someone's knowledge and habits based on appearance.

Besides are we going to start firing physicians who smoke? Or don't walk to work? Or drink too much?

Actually, yes, a number of hospitals are now testing for nicotine and firing docs who smoke.

Not that I'm on board with this policy, but it does happen. Heavy drinking is harder to test for, as is walking.

Frankly it's a distinction between whether you think medical advice should be normative or positive. I'm personally in the positivist camp, but after shadowing I get the impression most doctors are more normative.

For those unfamiliar with philosophy, basically it's the difference between saying you SHOULD lose weight, or you SHOULD stop smoking (normative) vs. saying IF you don't lose weight THEN you increase your risks of developing type 2 diabetes, heart disease etc. Positivism is a value free, factual description of what is happening. Normative descriptions posit a correct course of action and are dependent on underlying values (the value here being maximizing lifespan).

If you think medical advice is normative, then it's hypocritical for a fat person to be a physician (well, other than maybe a pathologist). If you believe medical advice should be positivist, then this policy doesn't seem remotely warranted.

Also BMI is an incredibly silly scale, particularly for males that are active and lift weights.
 
Not ONLY a pathologist, but a TON of other specialties too, which your lifestyle choices don't impact being a role model or "hypocrite" :p
 
Not ONLY a pathologist, but a TON of other specialties too, which your lifestyle choices don't impact being a role model or "hypocrite" :p

Really? I can't think of any other specialty without patient contact. I was under the impression even rads had some with stuff like mammo + biopsy, fluoroscopy, or if they do anything interventional.
 
Are there lifters with a BMI of 35 or over? I know BMI gets wacky when we're talking about extremes in muscle but I thought top bodybuilders only reach a low 30 on the BMI scale.

You're right. The highest I've heard of is 32 so I assumed some might be >34 but I can't find anything that supports that.
 
Really? I can't think of any other specialty without patient contact. I was under the impression even rads had some with stuff like mammo + biopsy, fluoroscopy, or if they do anything interventional.

True, what I meant was, them having patient contact and being obese doesn't technically make them that much of a hypocrite. I mean, is the patient gonna roll their eyes if an obese rads doc is doing an interventional rads procedure and explaining it to them? :confused:

Same with an anesthesia physician putting them under for a surgery.
Or an trauma surgeon taking care of them. Hell, they probably don't give a **** if the patient themselves are obese as long as they are alive and not crashing to death :p
 
Interesting when Texas has the highest obesity rate in the country. If they got rid of the air conditioning people would be too hot to eat!!!
 
Interesting when Texas has the highest obesity rate in the country. If they got rid of the air conditioning people would be too hot to eat!!!

Actually Texas is just slightly fatter than the mean. Mississippi is the runaway champion for fattest state by a large margin. Also new orleans is the fattest city.

Just commenting on demographics.
 
where are we finding our stats on this? I was always under the impression that people in the midwest were the fattest.... something about wanting to stick to the ground when a tornado comes by or something....
 
where are we finding our stats on this? I was always under the impression that people in the midwest were the fattest.... something about wanting to stick to the ground when a tornado comes by or something....

http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.html

At 31% obesity, Texas falls safely in 6th place. Missippi wins at 34%.

The Midwest isnt great, but depending on how you define midwest, its among the healthoest areas.... In certain isolated pockets surrounded by fatties.
 
They are still hiring obese employees, just no one with a BMI over 35. I think it is a great idea. It will keep their health insurance premiums down and promote a healthier image. You will still have obese doctors and nurses, just not the enormous employees who patients would have a hard time taking seriously.
 
where are we finding our stats on this? I was always under the impression that people in the midwest were the fattest.... something about wanting to stick to the ground when a tornado comes by or something....

Lol. Have you ever been to the south? Everyone waddles around from buffet restaurant to buffet restaurant.
 
I wonder if this means that people will get fired if they put on weight.
What about people who are underweight or have disordered eating patterns to keep their weight under the "limit"? Thin doesn't necessarily mean healthy.

I've noticed in clinical settings that a lot of doctors handle obese patients quite poorly and are quite rude/disrespectful to them. That's a big reason why a lot of fat people avoid going to the doctor as much as possible. It's really sad that people will use obesity as an excuse to bully people. Like, what, do you think fat people are fat because they LIKE getting unkind comments from you about it? Most fat people know it's not healthy and don't want to be that way. If it were so easy for everyone to lose weight people would never go through the hassle of getting bariatric surgery and someone would have already gotten rich by coming up with a guaranteed obesity cure.
 
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Just like Hooters has a right to not hire flat-chested women. But this kinda reminds me of all the ugly plastic surgeons.
 
Are there lifters with a BMI of 35 or over? I know BMI gets wacky when we're talking about extremes in muscle but I thought top bodybuilders only reach a low 30 on the BMI scale.

I had an obese pediatrician and found it hard to take his advice, even though, in hindsight, he was spot on. I understand the proposal. That said, weight is one of those things we can legally discriminate on and while this personally sickens me, I feel this hospital should be able to do it. If they want to pass on a good doc b/c of his or her lifestyle choices, so be it. That doctor can take his or her services elsewhere.
What about many powerlifters who have a ton of muscle as well as average body fat levels around 14-15% ?

BMIs are extremely inaccurate for people who workout seriously.
 
Are there lifters with a BMI of 35 or over? I know BMI gets wacky when we're talking about extremes in muscle but I thought top bodybuilders only reach a low 30 on the BMI scale.

I had an obese pediatrician and found it hard to take his advice, even though, in hindsight, he was spot on. I understand the proposal. That said, weight is one of those things we can legally discriminate on and while this personally sickens me, I feel this hospital should be able to do it. If they want to pass on a good doc b/c of his or her lifestyle choices, so be it. That doctor can take his or her services elsewhere.

Ronnie Coleman was listed at 296#, 5'11" = BMI 41.4 (competition, not offseason = 330#)
 
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Ronnie Coleman was listed at BMI 41.4 - 296#, 5'11" - competition, not offseason (330#)

bodybuilding-ronnie-coleman.jpg
 
Ronnie Coleman was listed at 41.4 - 296#, 5'11" - competition, not offseason (330#)
There are tons of powerlifters who arent any fatter than the average person with higher BMIs, so ya it can definitely get up there.
 
BMI is usually for the average person, since a ton of people don't tend to powerlift, so in a small way, it could be used as a baseline. Yes, if you are one of those people that lifts weights a lot, it would be skewed, but then again, there are tons of people who don't as well, and I believe it would still be a decent measure...

Then again, this whole ordeal seems dumb if it applies to all specialties...
 
Well, Cleveland Clinic does not take residents that smoke (they nicotine test everyone).
 
This is great news!

How can someone take care of people if they dont take care of themselves first?! And quite frankly fat people in the US just disgust me in general. It is an embarrassment for your country and is one of the biggest reasons other countries mock the US. Being fat is NOT ok but somehow this culture has made it acceptable.

Other than the obvious health side effects of obesity, it is costing your country millions in the health care field.
 
This is great news!

How can someone take care of people if they dont take care of themselves first?! And quite frankly fat people in the US just disgust me in general. It is an embarrassment for your country and is one of the biggest reasons other countries mock the US. Being fat is NOT ok but somehow this culture has made it acceptable.

Other than the obvious health side effects of obesity, it is costing your country millions in the health care field.

So fat people in other countries are more appealing??

Your attitude towards people with this illness disgusts me. I think physicians and providers with this attitude are just as bad or worse than the physicians who are obese and give medical advice on weight loss.

No one is here claiming that we are the healthiest nation and advocating that being fat is ok. It is well recognized that obesity is an epidemic in the US and is costing everyone a LOT of money. But do you think treating your obese patients with disgust is best route to solve this problem? Being rude and unsympathetic as to why they are in their current condition is NOT ok for providers but somehow you feel that it is acceptable. I hope you will be more understanding when you start practicing.
 
So fat people in other countries are more appealing??

Your attitude towards people with this illness disgusts me. I think physicians and providers with this attitude are just as bad or worse than the physicians who are obese and give medical advice on weight loss.

No one is here claiming that we are the healthiest nation and advocating that being fat is ok. It is well recognized that obesity is an epidemic in the US and is costing everyone a LOT of money. But do you think treating your obese patients with disgust is best route to solve this problem? Being rude and unsympathetic as to why they are in their current condition is NOT ok for providers but somehow you feel that it is acceptable. I hope you will be more understanding when you start practicing.

youve obviously never seen a fat ethiopian. The rarity makes them sexy
 
I swear I think Texas is the only state in the union that has a client on how to govern. I may have to move there one day.

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This is great news!

How can someone take care of people if they dont take care of themselves first?! And quite frankly fat people in the US just disgust me in general. It is an embarrassment for your country and is one of the biggest reasons other countries mock the US. Being fat is NOT ok but somehow this culture has made it acceptable.

Other than the obvious health side effects of obesity, it is costing your country millions in the health care field.

And your country is?... Are you a medical student taking advantage of this disgusting country's educational system, as your signature line implies? Lots of flights leave the US every day and I'm sure you could find one to return you to whatever "paradise" you came from.
 
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Place like fitness centers, Hooter's etc. have lost lawsuits based on not hiring due to obesity/looks. Why not one more against a hospital with deep pockets.

Who do you include or exclude from the applicant pool?

Paraplegic physician who is overweight?? Physician who needs chronic steroids?? Physician taking antidepressants which has a side effect of weight gain? Someone with an eating disorder. What about the female physician that just had a baby and is job hunting. There is a whole list of medical reasons why someone is obese and a physician saying "just lose weight" indicates that you really need to grow up and learn to become a better, understanding physician.

Oh, BTW, I am a military physician who has to maintain weight/exercise standards, and I see soldiers/marines who currently overweight due to PTSD meds, injuries, etc. I'd hate to see they heroes discriminated against, due to these factors. I've also seen weight standards induce eating disorders in younger people trying to "make weight."

What about the solo practitioner who works 12 hours/day and tries to maintain a balanced family life, thus losing out on gym time. Ask any single parent physician about this. I work about 50 hours/week, and find it taxing to get into the gym 4 times/week,and couldn't if I didn't have a very supportive spouse.

I think it is a slippery slope to go down and you can "justify" most any reason to not hiring someone (handicapped, citizenship, race or gender), including that they are a DO and not an MD!! Why should a university hire a DO, when they have an MD medical school and affiliated hospital? A DO doesn't represent what they teach or they would have a MD/DO option.
 
Place like fitness centers, Hooter's etc. have lost lawsuits based on not hiring due to obesity/looks. Why not one more against a hospital with deep pockets.

Who do you include or exclude from the applicant pool?

Paraplegic physician who is overweight?? Physician who needs chronic steroids?? Physician taking antidepressants which has a side effect of weight gain? Someone with an eating disorder. What about the female physician that just had a baby and is job hunting. There is a whole list of medical reasons why someone is obese and a physician saying "just lose weight" indicates that you really need to grow up and learn to become a better, understanding physician.

Oh, BTW, I am a military physician who has to maintain weight/exercise standards, and I see soldiers/marines who currently overweight due to PTSD meds, injuries, etc. I'd hate to see they heroes discriminated against, due to these factors. I've also seen weight standards induce eating disorders in younger people trying to "make weight."

What about the solo practitioner who works 12 hours/day and tries to maintain a balanced family life, thus losing out on gym time. Ask any single parent physician about this. I work about 50 hours/week, and find it taxing to get into the gym 4 times/week,and couldn't if I didn't have a very supportive spouse.

I think it is a slippery slope to go down and you can "justify" most any reason to not hiring someone (handicapped, citizenship, race or gender), including that they are a DO and not an MD!! Why should a university hire a DO, when they have an MD medical school and affiliated hospital? A DO doesn't represent what they teach or they would have a MD/DO option.

I dont thint this is the norm. It is not discrimination to not hire based on not meeting physical requirements. Obesity is not protected. The qualifications for protection from discrimination are pretty explicit
 
I dont thint this is the norm. It is not discrimination to not hire based on not meeting physical requirements. Obesity is not protected. The qualifications for protection from discrimination are pretty explicit

Fat paraplegic? Hire or not, due to BMI???

My double amputees are hard charging marines who would pass the BMI, but look in regular hospitals, and they are usually pretty soft.

Very subjective to hire/fire someone.

From CBS news: "It may be illegal -- although not in the way you think. Only a few states and cities prohibit discrimination based on weight, but there is also the problem of disparate impact. This is where you have a policy that looks neutral but has a disproportionate impact on a particular group. In the case of BMI, African-American women are more likely to be overweight, according to BMI. "

I am in the military and we discriminate against people for a variety of reasons, one being weight. I am all for a lean hospital staff, and 15 years ago, I would have said don't hire the fat people, and a variety of other stereotyped people, as well. Life experiences have changed my judgement of people, which I would have been biased against hiring previously.
 
Fat paraplegic? Hire or not, due to BMI???

My double amputees are hard charging marines who would pass the BMI, but look in regular hospitals, and they are usually pretty soft.

Very subjective to hire/fire someone.

From CBS news: "It may be illegal -- although not in the way you think. Only a few states and cities prohibit discrimination based on weight, but there is also the problem of disparate impact. This is where you have a policy that looks neutral but has a disproportionate impact on a particular group. In the case of BMI, African-American women are more likely to be overweight, according to BMI. "

I am in the military and we discriminate against people for a variety of reasons, one being weight. I am all for a lean hospital staff, and 15 years ago, I would have said don't hire the fat people, and a variety of other stereotyped people, as well. Life experiences have changed my judgement of people, which I would have been biased against hiring previously.

I do appreciate veterans and active servicemen. :thumbup:

however, nothing in the statement "obesity is not protected against discrimination" speaks to the relative "hardness" of anyone, vets included....

I just do not think it is common for strip clubs and the like to lose cases like you described. Typically the plaintiff loses on the basis that the law is explicit on things that cannot be used for grounds to not hire. We use the blanket term "discrimination", but we then lose sight of what the law actually says - gender, race, ethnicity, creed, and more recently, sexual orientation. By the broad definition used by some people of "you cant discriminate", who is to say that it is wrong to discriminate against people who do not have the proper qualifications? This is still discrimination... just not discrimination that is protected against .

that said, it is all up to the courts.... but I am aware of instances where fire departments and strip clubs have won their cases when sued on the basis that the applicant is not able to perform the job (and if the job is posted as "look good in a g-string.... it is still a job requirement.) and that the exclusion criteria is not protected by law.

It would be a stretch to turn BMI into a racial thing... and any competent lawyer should be able to get that thrown out in a hurry....
 
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