The 2011-2012 Underdog Thread

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DJack said:
This does need some clarification. I was saying someone posting in this thread or messaging me with a 3.5 and a 32, which has happened, does not make them an underdog.

While there is no set criteria, I have just been posting most of the scores up. Usually if someone isn't really an underdog, I will mention it. Me posting up someone with a 3.5 and a 32 does not do any good for those that are sub 26 and/or sub 3.4. We all know that a 3.5 and a 32 is good enough to get in, but the point of this thread is to show others that people with a wide range of scores can get accepted.

If you guys would like to create a "criteria" to be an underdog, you are more than welcome to discuss and whatever is assumed I will put up. :thumbup:

Also, I will update the scores more tomorrow or the day after when I am done doing some travelling.
Click to expand...

I suggest we limit the Underdog status to those who have both MCAT and GPA below the national averages of matriculating DO students. Its nice to see that people are doing well, but at the same time I am more interested in people who are applying with lower than average stats....like myself :)
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Hello,

I am new to this network.

I am a Chemical Engineer working in vaccines for the past three years.
Looking to make a career change.

I have 3.0 Sci GPA/3.0 cGPA - mostly brought down by tough engineer curriculum.

26 MCAT

Extensive volunteer experience including engineering health projects in Africa and Dominican Republic, lots of work experience.

I think I should retake the MCAT aiming for a 30 (kind of winged it this first time with no class prep and working full time) to compensate for low GPA.

My question is, how much will the increase in MCAT REALLY make for a DO school? Can a mediocre MCAT and low GPA be compensated with dedication to the field, ex currics, work experience? I think I need at least one high number.

Current plan is retake the MCAT, gather more clinical experience and contact admissions committees during spare time this year, and hope to apply next spring with better application. Any thoughts?

Applying this year will be a pretty big rush. And I think I will have low chances given the low numbers and late app (August timeframe).
Thank you!
 
generoses said:
Hello,

I am new to this network.

I am a Chemical Engineer working in vaccines for the past three years.
Looking to make a career change.

I have 3.0 Sci GPA/3.0 cGPA - mostly brought down by tough engineer curriculum.

26 MCAT

Extensive volunteer experience including engineering health projects in Africa and Dominican Republic, lots of work experience.

I think I should retake the MCAT aiming for a 30 (kind of winged it this first time with no class prep and working full time) to compensate for low GPA.

My question is, how much will the increase in MCAT REALLY make for a DO school? Can a mediocre MCAT and low GPA be compensated with dedication to the field, ex currics, work experience? I think I need at least one high number.

Current plan is retake the MCAT, gather more clinical experience and contact admissions committees during spare time this year, and hope to apply next spring with better application. Any thoughts?

Applying this year will be a pretty big rush. And I think I will have low chances given the low numbers and late app (August timeframe).
Thank you!
Click to expand...

It depends on how familiar you are with the application process. If you are not familiar with the process at all, you have a lot to learn before you can even really start filling out your application.

If you can figure it out and send your transcripts, application, and retake your MCAT for ~30 (should be easy since you'll probably beast the physical and biological sciences section. As long as you get ~8 for VR, you'll be okay) by the end of August, you should apply.

Your ECs look okay and you are a non-trad student, which DO schools seem to love. But you should get some shadowing/clinical experience in there.

If you are going to apply, get working on your personal statement now, start looking at the instructions, start shadowing somewhere to get a LOR by August, and start getting ready to retake the MCAT.

Please note that if money is a huge issue to you (applying to ~14 DO schools cost me $600), you should wait until next year and apply early with a stronger application.

(edit) Sorry! I misread your post and thought you wanted to apply this year! If you strengthen your application with shadowing, retaking MCATs, and apply early and broadly next year, you will definitely have a shot.
 
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Just received my official stats:

3.05 sGPA
3.36 cGPA

9P 11V 7B (ouch)--> 27

planning to retake the MCAT later this summer

:xf:
 
DrPrincipessa said:
They put it in a Google Doc:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr...Jjb0ZLUFh6VlE&authkey=CJzSw-0O&hl=en_US#gid=0

I think it's shared with the public, so you should be able to see it by clicking the link. Kudos to the 2011 Underdogs!
Click to expand...

how could some ppl with the same applicant scores have one that would be accepted and the other wasn't?

eg
sedaniel: 13 offers with a
3.19 GPA 31 Mcat, 47.4 Applicant Score

Great Scott: zero offers
3.33 GPA 30 MCAT 48.3 Applicant Score


did greatscott not just update his offer and/or is sedaniel doing something really special to get those 13 offers!
 
Great. Thanks for the help! I've looked over the app but don't have LOR yet, and only 4 hrs shadowing at PCOM.

I'll retake the MCAT (scores were verbal 9, physics 9, bio 8) and consider taking a bio class to boost the GPA along with trying to get some clinical experience this coming year.

Does anyone have any other advice for me? One year to make the best application possible. How do people feel about staying in touch with admissions? Is it considered being a pest, or does it help your chances for them to be familiar with your name?

New England is my dream school.

It feels so good to have a goal to work toward. The corporate world is killing my soul!
 
You will be fine raising that MCAT if you memorize all the bio! Looks like you have the "critical thinking" down.
 
generoses said:
Great. Thanks for the help! I've looked over the app but don't have LOR yet, and only 4 hrs shadowing at PCOM.

I'll retake the MCAT (scores were verbal 9, physics 9, bio 8) and consider taking a bio class to boost the GPA along with trying to get some clinical experience this coming year.

Does anyone have any other advice for me? One year to make the best application possible. How do people feel about staying in touch with admissions? Is it considered being a pest, or does it help your chances for them to be familiar with your name?

New England is my dream school.

It feels so good to have a goal to work toward. The corporate world is killing my soul!
Click to expand...

If you have time, try to retake some of your science classes that you got Cs or lower in. If you take the same exact class (same amount of credits), you can replace your grade with the higher one when you apply. Your GPA will be remarkably higher if you replace 3-4 classes.
 
OK. My primary has just been released. Recalculated sGPA 3.21, cGPA 3.28, MCAT 33M. I have also asked professors and physicians to write me LORs. Should I deliver the LORs to the schools as soon as they have reached Interfolio, or should I do it together with the completed secondaries?
 
Wow I have some updating to do. I actually just got back from an open house at WVSOM haha. I will update everything tomorrow! I'm glad this thread is starting to take off! :)
 
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Updated front page. I also posted up the formula from last year's thread. Hopefully we all get some good luck this year!
 
Please add me to the 2011 Underdog List:

YiSheng
3.18 sGPA
3.32 cGPA
25 MCAT
 
Hey Guys-
I am a brand new SDN member, but plan to be a frequent poster. My stats are:
3.73 GPA, 3.48 sGPA, 27S MCAT

I am so passionate about osteopathic medicine, and I want this so bad! EC-wise, I have a lot of service in a hospital, four service trips, have planned 15 alternative break program trips for my school, AED president, and have worked professionally as a magician (past 7 years) and actor (am a Theatre minor). I'm hoping the fine arts involvement will count for something, but who knows. I ended up applying to 14 DO schools, and am just so excited/nervous to get this process started. It literally gives me a sick feeling everytime I think about it...which is 24/7 haha. I think the biggest problem with my application is that I have two lower MCAT scores (23 and 24)...do you think this will hurt me, or are most DO schools likely to focus on the highest score? Thanks in advance for any responses!
 
If I retake a science class, does it need to be repeated at the same University for the grade to be replaced? I don't even live in Michigan (where I went to undergrad) anymore.

If I go to an "easy" school around here I'm sure I could ace a few of those classes, but does that look bad.

What about community college for something like physics (I'd feel kind of cheap taking an 'A' from a community college, but to be honest, I work full time and can't deal with spending 3K and the time to retake a science class at a university. I'm saving that money for an MCAT course!)
 
beatenupcase said:
OK. My primary has just been released. Recalculated sGPA 3.21, cGPA 3.28, MCAT 33M. I have also asked professors and physicians to write me LORs. Should I deliver the LORs to the schools as soon as they have reached Interfolio, or should I do it together with the completed secondaries?
Click to expand...
You are not an underdog for DO. Your mcat might even get you some love at some MD schools.
 
MDPlatt927 said:
Hey Guys-
I am a brand new SDN member, but plan to be a frequent poster. My stats are:
3.73 GPA, 3.48 sGPA, 27S MCAT

I am so passionate about osteopathic medicine, and I want this so bad! EC-wise, I have a lot of service in a hospital, four service trips, have planned 15 alternative break program trips for my school, AED president, and have worked professionally as a magician (past 7 years) and actor (am a Theatre minor). I'm hoping the fine arts involvement will count for something, but who knows. I ended up applying to 14 DO schools, and am just so excited/nervous to get this process started. It literally gives me a sick feeling everytime I think about it...which is 24/7 haha. I think the biggest problem with my application is that I have two lower MCAT scores (23 and 24)...do you think this will hurt me, or are most DO schools likely to focus on the highest score? Thanks in advance for any responses!
Click to expand...
IMO you are not even an underdog since you have an average MCAT with above average GPAs . Most DO schools will look at your highest MCAT score.
 
NY resident

Stats:

cGPA: 3.60
sGPA: 3.56
Non Science: 3.67

Mcat score:
First Take: V:7 B:8 P:7 Writing: Q Total: 22Q
Second Take: V:6 B:10:9 Writing: O Total: 25O

Using the formula: 48.1

Looking to apply to: UMDNJ-SOM
TCOM-NY
NSUCOM
NYCOM
LECOM E
VCOM-VC

Im looking to take the August 18th MCAT. Would this test date be too late? Should I send out my primary before taking the MCAT?

I have my AACOM app ready to go just at one click.. everything is filled out. Im just not sure if I should hold off on submitting or not.

Thoughts please.

Thanks
 
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MDPlatt927 said:
Hey Guys-
I am a brand new SDN member, but plan to be a frequent poster. My stats are:
3.73 GPA, 3.48 sGPA, 27S MCAT

I am so passionate about osteopathic medicine, and I want this so bad! EC-wise, I have a lot of service in a hospital, four service trips, have planned 15 alternative break program trips for my school, AED president, and have worked professionally as a magician (past 7 years) and actor (am a Theatre minor). I'm hoping the fine arts involvement will count for something, but who knows. I ended up applying to 14 DO schools, and am just so excited/nervous to get this process started. It literally gives me a sick feeling everytime I think about it...which is 24/7 haha. I think the biggest problem with my application is that I have two lower MCAT scores (23 and 24)...do you think this will hurt me, or are most DO schools likely to focus on the highest score? Thanks in advance for any responses!
Click to expand...

You're very passionate about DO but your screenname starts with MD? :laugh: I'm teasing. But anyway, you should be perfectly fine with those stats. Do well on your essays and interview and you'll have choices!
 
Haha MDP are my intials! :laugh: All the stats and info I read certainly make me feel like an underdog, but I'm certainly holding out. I'm pulling for everyone! Pre-med solidarity!!
 
Just got lecoms secondary. Sux cause I can't submit it till 2 am Thursday mourning. That's when I get paid. I just hope I won't be at the bottom of the applicant. Pile thus far since I can't submit it till then lol. Yes I'm a paranoid pre med but last year i submitted it the same day
 
Dr Yiot said:
Just got lecoms secondary. Sux cause I can't submit it till 2 am Thursday mourning. That's when I get paid. I just hope I won't be at the bottom of the applicant. Pile thus far since I can't submit it till then lol. Yes I'm a paranoid pre med but last year i submitted it the same day
Click to expand...

Which LECOM?/Do they have the same secondary system? I haven't gotten my LECOM-B one yet
 
DrPrincipessa said:
Which LECOM?/Do they have the same secondary system? I haven't gotten my LECOM-B one yet
Click to expand...

I was wondering this too. I applied to both... I got an email yesterday saying they received my app but it didn't say which school it was from and there was def no secondary attached
 
Can someone please add me to this list as well. I posted my stats earlier as well.

3.6/3.56/25
 
Metsa23 said:
NY resident

Stats:

cGPA: 3.60
sGPA: 3.56
Non Science: 3.67

Mcat score:
First Take: V:7 B:8 P:7 Writing: Q Total: 22Q
Second Take: V:6 B:10:9 Writing: O Total: 25O

Using the formula: 48.1

Looking to apply to: UMDNJ-SOM
TCOM-NY
NSUCOM
NYCOM
LECOM E
VCOM-VC

Im looking to take the August 18th MCAT. Would this test date be too late? Should I send out my primary before taking the MCAT?

I have my AACOM app ready to go just at one click.. everything is filled out. Im just not sure if I should hold off on submitting or not.

Thoughts please.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Metsa23 said:
Can someone please add me to this list as well. I posted my stats earlier as well.

3.6/3.56/25
Click to expand...


You will be fine. By using that formula, your score is two points higher than the average matriculant. I also think you should go ahead and submit your AACOMAS. Just indicate that you are retaking.
 
I'm a proud underdog:

add me to the list-

low,retaking soon, 3.59cum,3.33sci
 
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I'm a definite underdog. Just got my MCAT back yesterday, 27P (9, 9, 9). Which isn't bad except that it goes along with my 3.05 cGPA and 3.0 sGPA. EC's are really strong through. I'm hoping to get into WCU-COM since it's close by. Think I got a shot? My application is processing now. Good luck everyone!
 
timaq said:
I'm a definite underdog. Just got my MCAT back yesterday, 27P (9, 9, 9). Which isn't bad except that it goes along with my 3.05 cGPA and 3.0 sGPA. EC's are really strong through. I'm hoping to get into WCU-COM since it's close by. Think I got a shot? My application is processing now. Good luck everyone!
Click to expand...
You are in the same boat as me! But I've decided to "strengthen my app" and apply next year. Let me know how it goes!
 
OK, here goes! I'll be applying and can definitely be considered an "underdog." Not expecting much considering my stats, but still going for it just to see if anyone takes a chance on my application.

Stats:

GPA: 3.15
sGPA: 2.95
MCAT: 29R
-Great ECs including working as a trauma tech and at an HIV/AIDS clinic in Africa
-Stellar LORs
-Already done 2 years of bench research as well as a semester of clinical research and am in the process of submitting my article.

:luck: :luck:
 
pmc2025 said:
OK, here goes! I'll be applying and can definitely be considered an "underdog." Not expecting much considering my stats, but still going for it just to see if anyone takes a chance on my application.

Stats:

GPA: 3.15
sGPA: 2.95
MCAT: 29R
-Great ECs including working as a trauma tech and at an HIV/AIDS clinic in Africa
-Stellar LORs
-Already done 2 years of bench research as well as a semester of clinical research and am in the process of submitting my article.

:luck: :luck:
Click to expand...

If you had just retaken ONE science class to bump you up to a 3.0sGPA...
 
What is the reality of acceptance for a Graduate Student who did terrible in Undergrad while being a Bio Major and playing a college sport then did a Post-Bac year (Only Science Courses) raised his GPA, then started his MS in Bio and has a 3.425 after 1 year, with the MCAT on July 6..I have no idea what to think, whether I have done enough to show admissions offices that I have turned my game around or if it is just too little too late..?
 
Hey this thread is great, looking at data from last years thread makes me feel that I do have a shot. My GPA is low 3.1, but MCAT is high 32 and sGPA is 3.6. Good luck to everyone.
 
former underdog going into second year of med school breaking out my pom poms and wishing you all nothing but luck!!!


if i can be of any help please let me know :)
 
Mommy2three, you have given me so much hope. I have 2 young kids and I was told that wanting this after having children was selfish. You have given me so much inspiration. I will be reading your blog too! =)
 
MidnightSun said:
Mommy2three, you have given me so much hope. I have 2 young kids and I was told that wanting this after having children was selfish. You have given me so much inspiration. I will be reading your blog too! =)
Click to expand...

:oops: :oops:

well thank you :)

it is not an easy journey as a parent, but it is very doable. you absolutely need a fabulous support network in place ready to go.

best wishes in the application cycle and if you have any questions, please feel free to pm me.
:luck:
 
Jumping on the underdog train! Submitted my AACOMAS primary today! :)

cGPA: 3.73
sGPA: 3.63
MCAT: BS 9, VR 9, PS 6 ---> 24Q total
CA resident

MCAT was my second time taking it. Raised my score in everything, but went down in PS?!? So disappointing.

1 year research, shadowed MD, DO, oral surgeon, fire dept, ASB at my university, student ambassador, 2 years hospital volunteer

I applied to SMPs in March and am high on the waitlist on Tulane. I am hoping with an SMP I can get in despite my low MCAT.
 
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I just wanted to say thank you to all of you who have posted your underdog story. I am a big underdog, but get so much motivation from these posts. I currently have a 2.9 cGPA and am about to take the MCAT for the first time on Wednesday. I know it will probably take another year before I am where I need to be, but seeing this shows me I am not alone and that I should keep striving relentlessly towards that ultimate goal. Thank you again and I look forward to reading more success stories as they come!
 
DJack said:
Well, I guess it's time to start this up for next year!
Other info:
Last year's Underdog Thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=736438
What is an underdog? Formula from last year's thread...
Formula:
MCAT/2 + sGPA*10 = Applicant Score

(The "sGPA" here is your science GPA)

The average applicant (according to the 2009 matriculant data: 25.49 MCAT, 3.25sGPA) will then have their "applicant score" as 45.25, as per the formula: (25.49/2) + (3.25*10) = 45.25

The average matriculant (according to the 2009 matriculant data: 26.19 MCAT, 3.35sGPA) will then have their "applicant score" as 46.60, as per the formula: (26.19/2) + (3.35*10) = 46.60
Click to expand...

Updated statistics from 2010/2011:
The average applicant (according to the 2011 cycle applicant data: 25.66 MCAT, 3.33sGPA) will then have their "applicant score" as 46.13, as per the formula: (25.66/2) + (3.33*10) = 46.13

The average matriculant (according to the 2010 matriculant data: 26.48 MCAT, 3.41sGPA) will then have their "applicant score" as 47.34, as per the formula: (26.48/2) + (3.41*10) = 47.34[/QUOTE]

A little higher than 2009 data.
 
I just got verified. I was wondering how long it took in general before schools start sending secondaries?
 
Hi,

I have been out of school for 4 years my stats were 3.126 cgpa 3.3 sgpa 22mcat.

I had to finish school fast at that time due to financial reasons, now things are stable and I want to continue to pursue my career goal.

I plan to retake the mcats, volunteer and shadow a do doctor.

I was wondering if there are any underdogs that can give me any suggestions to improve my application?

I am wondering if I should retake classes, do a postbac, or masters? What would look better?

Thanks!
 
DrPrincipessa said:
Updated statistics from 2010/2011:
The average applicant (according to the 2011 cycle applicant data: 25.66 MCAT, 3.33sGPA) will then have their "applicant score" as 46.13, as per the formula: (25.66/2) + (3.33*10) = 46.13

The average matriculant (according to the 2010 matriculant data: 26.48 MCAT, 3.41sGPA) will then have their "applicant score" as 47.34, as per the formula: (26.48/2) + (3.41*10) = 47.34

A little higher than 2009 data.
Click to expand...

I was literally thinking about updating this / coming up with a formula that's a little more accurate (with some kind of statistical significance). I have some time to kill now that I'm done working and school doesn't start for a few weeks, maybe i'll whip something up.
 
Brownie1020 said:
Hi,

I have been out of school for 4 years my stats were 3.126 cgpa 3.3 sgpa 22mcat.

I had to finish school fast at that time due to financial reasons, now things are stable and I want to continue to pursue my career goal.

I plan to retake the mcats, volunteer and shadow a do doctor.

I was wondering if there are any underdogs that can give me any suggestions to improve my application?

I am wondering if I should retake classes, do a postbac, or masters? What would look better?

Thanks!
Click to expand...


Since your GPA and MCAT are both a little low I would definitely look toward a post-bac or SMP. Since you likely completed all your pre-reqs, an SMP might be a better option. This will help you boost your GPA before you apply.

Also, I agree that you should shadow a DO, volunteer and get some clinical experience.

I would look at this forum to see what fits you best: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=346106
 
I am on vacation, but should be updating everything in a few days :thumbup:

I hope the Underdogs start getting interview invites soon!
 
How about this as the general applicant formula:

cGPA * 10 + sGPA *10 + MCAT = applicant score

3.43 * 10 + 3.33 * 10 + 25.66 = 93.3 average applicant

3.49 * 10 + 3.41 * 10 + 26.48 = 95.5 average matriculant

This is based on the observation that osteopathic schools seem be more holistic when evaluating applicants and a little less concerned with numbers, specifically MCAT scores, than their allopathic counterparts. This is shown by the larger percentile difference in MCAT scores (26.5 vs. 31.1) than GPA (3.49 vs. 3.67) It places equal weighting between science GPA, cumulative GPA and MCAT score.


The following modification will be made to account for students who have a graduate degree in the natural sciences or have done a postbacc with 24 or more credit hours completed (one year full time) to account for the weighting of recent coursework in returning students.

(cGPA + grad cGPA) * 5 + (sGPA + grad sGPA)*5 + MCAT = graduate student applicant score

(cGPA + postbacc cGPA) * 5 + (sGPA + postbacc sGPA)*5 + MCAT = post bacc student applicant score


To determine the criteria for an underdog we can utilize the 10th /90th percentile rule from the MSAR and apply it as +/- 1 std deviation, or the 16th / 84th percentile to keep the calculations simple. So the true underdog would have at least one of the three academic categories below the 16th percentile with the other two average or below as well. By using the cGPAas the statistical outlier, and probably the most common one for successful underdogs, we come up with the following score for an underdog:

(3.49 - .26) * 10 + 3.41 * 10 + 26.48 = 92.9 underdog threshold

(3.49 - .26) * 10 + (3.41 - .30) * 10 + (26.48 - 3.14) = 86.7 long shot


However, outliers cause issues. A 3.6 cGPA, 3.5 sGPA with an 22 on the MCAT will be a underdog, but according to a simple formula it will compute as a competitive score. To combat this we will add several modifiers to compensate for people with unbalanced stats.

-1 point MCAT overall 24
-2 points MCAT overall 23
-3 points MCAT overall 22
-1.5 points Every section on the MCAT that scores a 7
-3 points Every section on the MCAT that scores a 6
-1 point cGPA 3.00-3.19
-3 points cGPA 2.85 - 2.99
-5 points cGPA 2.75 - 2.84
-1 point sGPA 3.00-3.09
-3 points sGPA 2.85 - 2.99
-5 points sGPA 2.75 - 2.84


Additional factors:
MCAT overall scores < 22 will be screened out by nearly every school and will not be rated
MCAT sectional scores < 6 will be screened out by nearly every school and will not be rated
cGPA or sGPA < 2.75 will be screened out by nearly every school and will not be rated

Finally, there is a large difference in the admission statistics between osteopathic schools, DMU has an average matriculant score over 100 while Pikeville is around 91. So a 3.2/3.1 with a 24 MCAT may be a big problem at one school and just fine at another.
 
3.56/3.60/25 = 96.6

I'm worried that these calculations are going to give me false hope haha
 
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