The 2012 Rank List Help Thread

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Cathyran

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In light of the many x vs. y vs. z threads that are starting up, I thought I'd attempt to consolidate. I'd also appreciate the help with my list from anyone who's interested:

BIDMC
Wash U
Mayo
Penn
Duke
Hopkins
UAB
Northwestern
Vanderbilt
Michigan

Right now I'm thinking:

1-3: Wash U vs. Duke vs. Mayo
4-6: Hopkins vs. Vanderbilt vs. Michigan
7-10: Penn vs. BIDMC vs. NW vs. UAB

Thoughts?

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Hey guys I have been thinking a lot about the ROL too. I'm having a really hard time ranking my top 3 (UT-Houston, Baylor, UTSW) so any help on differentiating these would be appreciated. I would like to stay in Texas, but Im not opposed to bigger cities as well. I also want a larger program with a great clinical experience. I think I want to do a fellowship at this point probably in pain (but this could change over the next few years...) Another important factor for me was the general vibe I got from the residents and faculty. I thought UTH had the nicest, down to earth people on the interview trail.

Top 5: UT-Houston, Baylor, UTSW, U of Wash, Rush

Middle 5: UIC, CCF, St. Luke's, OU, A&M

Bottom 5: UTMB, U of NM, Texas Tech, SUNY Downstate, Wayne State

Thanks and Good luck to everyone!
 
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I was thinking that it might help others help you if you also include what you're looking for or factors you're considering in your rank. Like location, fellowships, job placement, research, name, etc etc. But this is coming from a fellow applicant FWIW.
 
I was thinking that it might help others help you if you also include what you're looking for or factors you're considering in your rank. Like location, fellowships, job placement, research, name, etc etc. But this is coming from a fellow applicant FWIW.

I'd agree. I am looking at fellowship placement and I suppose to some extent national reputation. I'm less concerned about location (though I'd prefer a smaller city). I'm also interested in doing a cardiac fellowship when I finish.

In light of the many x vs. y vs. z threads that are starting up, I thought I'd attempt to consolidate. I'd also appreciate the help with my list from anyone who's interested:

BIDMC
Wash U
Mayo
Penn
Duke
Hopkins
UAB
Northwestern
Vanderbilt
Michigan

Right now I'm thinking:

1-3: Wash U vs. Duke vs. Mayo
4-6: Hopkins vs. Vanderbilt vs. Michigan
7-10: Penn vs. BIDMC vs. NW vs. UAB

Thoughts?
 
I think rol's are very subjective and individualized. I think a thread where people with specific knowledge of a particular program were asked something like "what programs do you feel comfortable answering questions about and can I pm you" would be much more useful. There are lots of different types of people who are gonna answer your list of programs in different ways for different reasons. Ultimately a thread like this is likely to yield very little useful info.
 
I think rol's are very subjective and individualized. I think a thread where people with specific knowledge of a particular program were asked something like "what programs do you feel comfortable answering questions about and can I pm you" would be much more useful. There are lots of different types of people who are gonna answer your list of programs in different ways for different reasons. Ultimately a thread like this is likely to yield very little useful info.

I agree I just think it's kind of fun.
 
Haha, let the games begin, even though it's only January. Really, no love for Penn or UoM? Honestly, how can someone wants to do cardiac but putting down Penn. People should remember to take everything on the net with a grain of salt.
 
Haha, let the games begin, even though it's only January. Really, no love for Penn or UoM? Honestly, how can someone wants to do cardiac but putting down Penn. People should remember to take everything on the net with a grain of salt.

I got a bad vibe at Penn. At the interview dinner at 7, most of the residents had just gotten off, left the dinner early, and just seemed generally beaten down. I really loved Michigan (and Ann Arbor), but their schedule is somewhat inflexible. Both really solid programs clinically, just not for me.
 
Any input for the midlevel portions of lists? I already have at the top ucsf, stanford, mgh, etc, but would like to know what peoples thoughts are on ranking places:
- ucdavis
- nothwestern
- tufts
- harbor ucla

orginally from the west coast but went to school in the east.
 
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I got a bad vibe at Penn. At the interview dinner at 7, most of the residents had just gotten off, left the dinner early, and just seemed generally beaten down. I really loved Michigan (and Ann Arbor), but their schedule is somewhat inflexible. Both really solid programs clinically, just not for me.

Can anyone else comment on this? I actually enjoyed my dinner and interview at Penn but continue to hear bad things about how the residents are over-worked, etc.
 
penn state is an awesome program but in the middle of nowhere...downstate seemed like a good program on the interview but residents are unhappy....how would you rank SUNY downstate, penn state, Boston Medical (BU) and temple
 
Any input for the midlevel portions of lists? I already have at the top ucsf, stanford, mgh, etc, but would like to know what peoples thoughts are on ranking places:
- ucdavis
- nothwestern
- tufts
- harbor ucla

orginally from the west coast but went to school in the east.

Can't comment on the others, but I was very impressed with NW when I interviewed there earlier this year. My only hang up was that I didn't want to live in Chicago proper. Otherwise, they would have been high on my list.
 
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In light of the many x vs. y vs. z threads that are starting up, I thought I'd attempt to consolidate. I'd also appreciate the help with my list from anyone who's interested:

BIDMC
Wash U
Mayo
Penn
Duke
Hopkins
UAB
Northwestern
Vanderbilt
Michigan

Right now I'm thinking:

1-3: Wash U vs. Duke vs. Mayo
4-6: Hopkins vs. Vanderbilt vs. Michigan
7-10: Penn vs. BIDMC vs. NW vs. UAB

Thoughts?

1-3: I really liked WashU. It's a great program with what seemed like a great group of residents, fellowship placement looked pretty on par with other top programs, seemed pretty innovative with the whole competency based training program, obviously great academics and research with the cover of Anesthesiology. The only reason it isn't at the top part of my list is because of location. I'm looking for a larger city with more of an East Coast feel. Didn't apply to Duke (too Southern) or Mayo (Rochester...)
4-6: I liked Hopkins > Michigan mainly because of the location and resident demographic. Even though Baltimore isn't the greatest city, it's more my style than Ann Arbor. Both programs are definitely great with similar but also different strengths. Fellowship placement is definitely not going to be a concern with either. Hopkins (IMO) has more of the national reputation, I really liked the College Days, the new hospital doesn't hurt, and I think I had more in common with those residents. Michigan still has a great national reputation, all the tech-related stuff was cool, the PD and Chair were pretty awesome and probably one of the most approachable, the residents seemed to be on the older, more settled down/family-oriented side of the spectrum. Didn't interview at Vandy (Southern).
7-10: Tough call on these ones because they were all great programs and are more on the higher part of my list - location being a contributor which is probably why they are farther down on yours. For me, right now, BIDMC > Penn (although this flips frequently) only because, like you said, the Penn residents did seem worked a little too hard and I really got a better vibe from the BIDMC residents. NW I just didn't leave really wowed like I did at the other places, but I can't really put a finger on why. Didn't apply to UAB (haha...location)
 
1-3: I really liked WashU. It's a great program with what seemed like a great group of residents, fellowship placement looked pretty on par with other top programs, seemed pretty innovative with the whole competency based training program, obviously great academics and research with the cover of Anesthesiology. The only reason it isn't at the top part of my list is because of location. I'm looking for a larger city with more of an East Coast feel. Didn't apply to Duke (too Southern) or Mayo (Rochester...)
4-6: I liked Hopkins > Michigan mainly because of the location and resident demographic. Even though Baltimore isn't the greatest city, it's more my style than Ann Arbor. Both programs are definitely great with similar but also different strengths. Fellowship placement is definitely not going to be a concern with either. Hopkins (IMO) has more of the national reputation, I really liked the College Days, the new hospital doesn't hurt, and I think I had more in common with those residents. Michigan still has a great national reputation, all the tech-related stuff was cool, the PD and Chair were pretty awesome and probably one of the most approachable, the residents seemed to be on the older, more settled down/family-oriented side of the spectrum. Didn't interview at Vandy (Southern).
7-10: Tough call on these ones because they were all great programs and are more on the higher part of my list - location being a contributor which is probably why they are farther down on yours. For me, right now, BIDMC > Penn (although this flips frequently) only because, like you said, the Penn residents did seem worked a little too hard and I really got a better vibe from the BIDMC residents. NW I just didn't leave really wowed like I did at the other places, but I can't really put a finger on why. Didn't apply to UAB (haha...location)


Thanks a lot for the feedback.. I am admittedly a bit more of a small city/southern sort of person, and it would be hard for me to move with my spouse to a huge city like Boston or NYC. I, too, really liked Wash U, and I think I'm really debating whether to rank Wash U or Duke #1... Both seemed like awesome programs with great residents and faculty.
 
BIDMC
Columbia
Cornell
Penn
UChicago
UCLA
UCSD
UMichigan
UWashington (Seattle)

Taking the gf with me so it needs to be a decent city that she can enjoy. Fellowship is in the future. No ties to any region. That being said, I want to go to a residency that can keep all my options open in terms of fellowship caliber and geographical location. Don't mind working hard but I also don't want a malignant workhorse program that is going to kill me. All these programs have pros/cons so it's hard to figure out where to place them. I think Columbia/Cornell/Penn probably have the best reputation.. but also probably not the cleanest cities relative to the others. Any other input?
 
BIDMC
Columbia
Cornell
Penn
UChicago
UCLA
UCSD
UMichigan
UWashington (Seattle)

Taking the gf with me so it needs to be a decent city that she can enjoy. Fellowship is in the future. No ties to any region. That being said, I want to go to a residency that can keep all my options open in terms of fellowship caliber and geographical location. Don't mind working hard but I also don't want a malignant workhorse program that is going to kill me. All these programs have pros/cons so it's hard to figure out where to place them. I think Columbia/Cornell/Penn probably have the best reputation.. but also probably not the cleanest cities relative to the others. Any other input?

What happend to Sinai? Haha sorry for the stalking.
 
What happend to Sinai? Haha sorry for the stalking.

Hahah. You are pr0 stalker. I have a few others I'm considering but I know how to rank them. These are the ones that I'm most confused about. But thanks for the stalk. What's your list looking like these days?
 
Hahah. You are pr0 stalker. I have a few others I'm considering but I know how to rank them. These are the ones that I'm most confused about. But thanks for the stalk. What's your list looking like these days?

All this free time during 4th yr has allowed me to hone my skills. Right now, my list is not even a list yet. Me and the SO are deciding on if/how to handle the couples match. But it looks like we interviewed at a lot of the same places and are considering similar factors.
 
Just to get in on the fun of the rank season...

UVA
VCU
UK
Louisville
MUSC
Ochsner
Penn State
Texas A&M
West Penn
Arizona
Rush
Loyola

Interested in strong clinical training, would like to obtain a cardiac fellowship, would prefer less traffic. I care for reputation but not the most deciding factor. Thanks for all the input!
 
Also to get in on some rank list help/fun/ideas:

University of Tennessee
University of Kentucky
Louisville
University of Virginia
Virginia Commonwealth
Maine
University of Vermont
University of Nebraska
University of Washington
UC San Diego
University of Michigan
University of Arizona
University of Utah
Penn State

Interested in strong clinical training, strong educational emphasis, would like to obtain a fellowship (not sure in what yet probably cards or peds), would prefer smaller town. I also care about reputation to an extent but not the most important factor. Thanks!
 
Also to get in on some rank list help/fun/ideas:

University of Tennessee
University of Kentucky
Louisville
University of Virginia
Virginia Commonwealth
Maine
University of Vermont
University of Nebraska
University of Washington
UC San Diego
University of Michigan
University of Arizona
University of Utah
Penn State

Interested in strong clinical training, strong educational emphasis, would like to obtain a fellowship (not sure in what yet probably cards or peds), would prefer smaller town. I also care about reputation to an extent but not the most important factor. Thanks!

I didn't interview at many of your programs, but I would definitely give
Michigan strong consideration. A really solid program in a cool city.
 
Tufts - St Lukes....Trouble deciding between the two, like both cities, Boston a bit more. Would rather be at the better program though. Can anybody share thoughts on these two?
 
Any opinions on UIC v. Rush? And perhaps those two compared to MCW and Maryland? (Trying to get to Chicago is very desirable for my relationship, but MCW isn't too far away and my fiance could move to DC for Maryland's sake...)

Having a hard time in the middle of my ROL.
 
Any opinions on UIC v. Rush? And perhaps those two compared to MCW and Maryland? (Trying to get to Chicago is very desirable for my relationship, but MCW isn't too far away and my fiance could move to DC for Maryland's sake...)

Having a hard time in the middle of my ROL.

Didn't actually interview at either UIC or Rush, but had several classmates who did. They were overwhelmingly more enthusiastic about UIC. They felt that Rush was a pretty malignant program and both were concerned that they only met a couple residents during their interview day. Maybe someone with more direct experience can comment.
 
Didn't actually interview at either UIC or Rush, but had several classmates who did. They were overwhelmingly more enthusiastic about UIC. They felt that Rush was a pretty malignant program and both were concerned that they only met a couple residents during their interview day. Maybe someone with more direct experience can comment.

This was basically my feeling as well. Thanks for the comment!
 
I know my #1 and #2, but having trouble with the rest of the list. Vanderbilt and OHSU both seemed like awesome places to live with great training. Interest in peds or cardiac. Liked BID and MGH, but Boston COL may be too steep? Thoughts?

Vandy
OHSU
BID
MGH
U of Wisconsin
 
can somebody give some information on downstate and BU and how they would rank them...both are in urban settings and both seem like workhorse programs. Hard to get a feel if the residents are happy and i've heard downstate residents are not.
 
I know my #1 and #2, but having trouble with the rest of the list. Vanderbilt and OHSU both seemed like awesome places to live with great training. Interest in peds or cardiac. Liked BID and MGH, but Boston COL may be too steep? Thoughts?

Vandy
OHSU
BID
MGH
U of Wisconsin

Portland = awesome!
 
BIDMC
Columbia
Cornell
Penn
UChicago
UCLA
UCSD
UMichigan
UWashington (Seattle)

Taking the gf with me so it needs to be a decent city that she can enjoy. Fellowship is in the future. No ties to any region. That being said, I want to go to a residency that can keep all my options open in terms of fellowship caliber and geographical location. Don't mind working hard but I also don't want a malignant workhorse program that is going to kill me. All these programs have pros/cons so it's hard to figure out where to place them. I think Columbia/Cornell/Penn probably have the best reputation.. but also probably not the cleanest cities relative to the others. Any other input?

Any thoughts anyone?
 
Interviewed there. Saw one resident during the actual interview day and an additional one at the dinner night before. Without that being a factor I didn't like the program at all. Ran into a current resident from back home and she told me not to come to Rush. She felt it was a solid program to acquire training ( like all the accredited ones of course) but the anesthesiology department gets " run" over a lot and it affects the residents. Her words not mines. Don't care too much about the program and I don't plan on ranking it.

Oh and I enjoyed UIC but I felt the resident were a bit awkward yet they were very happy and the PD seemed cool. I enjoyed the conversations I had with he interviewers.
 
Also to get in on some rank list help/fun/ideas:

University of Tennessee
University of Kentucky
Louisville
University of Virginia
Virginia Commonwealth
Maine
University of Vermont
University of Nebraska
University of Washington
UC San Diego
University of Michigan
University of Arizona
University of Utah
Penn State

Interested in strong clinical training, strong educational emphasis, would like to obtain a fellowship (not sure in what yet probably cards or peds), would prefer smaller town. I also care about reputation to an extent but not the most important factor. Thanks!

Only interviewed at a few of these places but I would say Michigan, Utah, and UVA would strongly fit with what you're looking for.
 
Also to get in on some rank list help/fun/ideas:

University of Tennessee
University of Kentucky
Louisville
University of Virginia
Virginia Commonwealth
Maine
University of Vermont
University of Nebraska
University of Washington
UC San Diego
University of Michigan
University of Arizona
University of Utah
Penn State

Interested in strong clinical training, strong educational emphasis, would like to obtain a fellowship (not sure in what yet probably cards or peds), would prefer smaller town. I also care about reputation to an extent but not the most important factor. Thanks!

UK and U of A also seem to fit your criteria. Both are in reasonable sized cities, have solid case loads, and seem to have a strong educational emphasis. The only other places on your list I'm familiar with are VCU and Louisville.

Historically most of the U of A residents go straight into PP, many are recruited into local groups which from what I have heard, are pretty desirable. But from what I was told, those that are interested in fellowships don't have any problem landing them. One thing that's nice about U of A is that you don't have to compete with fellows. The downside is that you would have to move for fellowship unless you are interested in CC or possibly pain.
 
First, I apologize for not being able to comment on anyone else's posts or offer any advice. I do not think I have interviewed at enough of the programs in most of the lists to truly comment without giving very individually or geographically biased comments...

Anyway, while I think I have come to terms with both the very top and bottom programs on my rank list, I am having a lot of trouble deciding how to rank 3-6. The programs I am considering are:

Columbia
Cornell
MGH
Penn

While I am absolutely not an avid researcher or necessarily going to pursue a career in academics, I am looking to attend a well-regarded, large, academic center that will prepare me for whatever avenue I decide to pursue in the future, whether it be academics, PP, or fellowship. I do not mind working hard while at work, but am not the type to perform slave labor with a smile. Ideally, I am looking for a program with a friendly environment, great resident-faculty relationships, and a strong education.

What do you guys think? How do Columbia, Cornell, MGH, and Penn compare in these regards? How would you rank these 4 programs?
 
I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on SUNY Upstate in Syracuse vs SUNY Buffalo.
 
I know my #1 and #2, but having trouble with the rest of the list. Vanderbilt and OHSU both seemed like awesome places to live with great training. Interest in peds or cardiac. Liked BID and MGH, but Boston COL may be too steep? Thoughts?

Vandy
OHSU
BID
MGH
U of Wisconsin

I thought vanderbilt was a great program. They're reasonably strong in peds and cardiac as well. My impression was that their residents may work a bit more than average, but they all seemed quite happy and satisfied with their training. I'm actually planning to rank Vandy pretty high myself. Also, Nashville isn't a bad place to live, from what I can tell. I had a good friend that rotated at OHSU and she came away from it with a pretty negative impression, primarily due to her perception that they work their residents very hard.
 
XD Thanks for all the posts guys - it's nice to see people give nice honest answers like this.

First off, I'm conflicted between BID, Yale, and WashU for #1 . Location really isn't terribly important to me - I'd be happy anywhere. I also don't mind working hard but I do NOT want a program that is malignant. Any opinions?
 
XD Thanks for all the posts guys - it's nice to see people give nice honest answers like this.

First off, I'm conflicted between BID, Yale, and WashU for #1 . Location really isn't terribly important to me - I'd be happy anywhere. I also don't mind working hard but I do NOT want a program that is malignant. Any opinions?

Interviewed at washu and BID and thought washu was the far better program of the two. Barnes does everything for st. Louis, most of the rest of Missouri, southern Illinois, southern Iowa, and northern Arkansas. BID has to compete with MGH, brigham, and the other Boston hospitals for cases. And you can live an awesome life on a residents salary in STL.
 
Interviewed at washu and BID and thought washu was the far better program of the two. Barnes does everything for st. Louis, most of the rest of Missouri, southern Illinois, southern Iowa, and northern Arkansas. BID has to compete with MGH, brigham, and the other Boston hospitals for cases. And you can live an awesome life on a residents salary in STL.

WashU can't do everything in STL, SLU is just down the street. But I do wonder what the market share is like between the two.
 
XD Thanks for all the posts guys - it's nice to see people give nice honest answers like this.

First off, I'm conflicted between BID, Yale, and WashU for #1 . Location really isn't terribly important to me - I'd be happy anywhere. I also don't mind working hard but I do NOT want a program that is malignant. Any opinions?


WashU is one of the best programs in the country. I'd go with that first, the other two depend on location preference. I'd prefer Boston but it's up to you
 
Anyone with an opinion on Duke or Mayo? I loved both of these programs, and would like to hear what others' impressions were.
 
Anyone with an opinion on Duke or Mayo? I loved both of these programs, and would like to hear what others' impressions were.

Just an MSIV, but I interviewed both places and know both of these programs pretty well (Duke moreso than Mayo). Both are fantastic programs. My impression is that Duke is traditionally considered a slightly higher-powered program than Mayo, but it's likely not a huge difference.

The biggest differences I observed:
1. Location. Depending on what part of the country you're from, the location of Mayo might be a plus for you, but I think many would argue that the Durham/the Triangle is a superior location to Rochester, MN. The weather is indeed more hospitable, the nearest big city only 20 mins away (versus 1-1.5 hrs in MN), and Durham is relatively cheap (though Rochester's probably slightly cheaper). On my interview at Mayo, I got the impression that the city is probably less diverse than Durham. While we're on the subject of Durham (bias alert), I think it's a really cool town that has undergone many positive changes over the last 10 years. There's a pretty good food and music scene (it's not Boston or NYC, but it's also markedly more livable than those two options). Durham was also recently ranked the most tolerant city in the US, which is pretty unexpected and cool: (https://www.dtmi.duke.edu/news-publ...rham-ranks-1-for-most-tolerant-city-in-the-us).
2. Call system. Duke is on a night-float system. I believe that residents typically do 3-4 ~one week blocks of night float/year. Mayo (I think) does the typical Qsomething call system, and I remember that their call obligation seemed relatively benign.
3. Cases. I would wager that the case load is relatively similar between the two, though I think that Mayo currently has more ORs. Duke is building like crazy right now, putting up new ICU towers, more ORs, etc., so the volume will be even higher quite soon. I think you do more sick/high-risk OB at Duke. Both are strong in Cardiac, with Duke probably a bit stronger. Unsure how Peds compares, but I know that Duke residents do a fair amount of big whack Peds (craniosynostosis repairs, etc), there's only one fellow at Duke, so little/no competition there. Research is great at both places. CRNAs at both places allow residents to do the educational and cool stuff. Both places tend to get you out at a reasonable time, though Mayo probably gets you out a bit earlier each day.
4. Miscellaneous. When I interviewed at Mayo, I found it interesting that the residents said they generally don't call their attendings the night before to discuss the plan. Not necessarily good/bad, just different than what I'm used to. Finally, the resident that gave me the tour at Mayo remarked that they spent much of their cardiac rotation supervising cardiac CRNAs, which meant that as a resident, they would run two cardiac rooms with an attending. I'm not sure how universal that is at Mayo, but I definitely never heard that anywhere else. Again, not good/bad, just different.

Again, just a fellow med student, but these were my observations.

-beepbloop
 
Anyone with an opinion on Duke or Mayo? I loved both of these programs, and would like to hear what others' impressions were.

Duke. Better rep, better location, high powered research
 
Random question:
How do you rank a certain program in the following manner:
1. Advanced Program A with Prelims at 1,2,3
2. Categorical Program A
3. Advanced Program A with Prelims 4,5,6

I can't do this on NRMP b/c it says I am duplicating Advanced Program A on the rank list

I want to rank the categorical program somewhere in the middle of different prelim programs for an advanced spot at the same place...

Thanks in advance
 
Random question:
How do you rank a certain program in the following manner:
1. Advanced Program A with Prelims at 1,2,3
2. Categorical Program A
3. Advanced Program A with Prelims 4,5,6

I can't do this on NRMP b/c it says I am duplicating Advanced Program A on the rank list

I want to rank the categorical program somewhere in the middle of different prelim programs for an advanced spot at the same place...

Thanks in advance

I don't think you can do this, because the primary match is run completely before the secondary match for prelim years is run. There's a thread in the match forum about this.
 
any advice on ranking the following programs? I'm from Long Island NY and would like to settle there eventually, if that makes a difference.

1) SUNY Downstate
2) SUNY Upstate
3) Maimonides
4) SUNY Stonybrook
5) UMDNJ New Brunswick
6) Montefiore
7) UConn
8) St. Lukes Roosevelt

thanks for your help!
 
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