The 2012 Rank List Help Thread

[Student007]

Depends on what your looking for. If you base this off of location then I would rank
1. UPMC
2. UTSW
3. UW
4. Baylor

If your looking for the best program then
either UPMC or UW as number 1 based on which program you liked better. Then UTSW as 3 and then Baylor as 4. Hope this helps

The 1-4 you listed is actually what my order has been going back to semi-regularly.

In terms of overall feeling of the programs its UPMC>UTSW=UW=Baylor

In terms of location preference its UTSW>UW>UPMC=Baylor

This ROL business is a huge mind*@$%

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[fedexpress]

These are my top 3. How would you all rank these programs?? Any thoughts from current residents or people who interviewed at these programs would be awesome!

 

[AnesApp]

These programs are in the middle of my ROL.
5. nymc
6.uconn
7. downstate
8. Maimonides
9.temple

I currently have it in that order . Does that seem right. I am having difficulty choosing between those programs so I wanted to know if ranked one program too high or too low. I am from the NYC area

 

[MilkmanAl]

I interviewed at none of those programs, but Downstate is apparently legendary for being awful. You may want to think real hard before ranking them that high.

 

[floridaboy18]

UAB>>>>>>>>>UTSW>UNC

UAB's program is hands down better than UNC's program (back to back 2 year accreditation with new leadership and matched half their class last year is a LOT to risk if you have UAB to rank). I don't know much about UTSW's program since I did not interview there, but IMO you would be silly in my mind to rank UNC ahead of UAB.

These are my top 3. How would you all rank these programs?? Any thoughts from current residents or people who interviewed at these programs would be awesome!

 

[crash2500]

honestly a two year accreditation for a lack of oversight on resident case logs and work hour limit violations during intern year, both of which have been resolved, does not seem to be a huge issue. But to each his own.

 

[pgy13]

These programs are in the middle of my ROL.
5. nymc
6.uconn
7. downstate
8. Maimonides
9.temple

I currently have it in that order . Does that seem right. I am having difficulty choosing between those programs so I wanted to know if ranked one program too high or too low. I am from the NYC area

I would put Temple ahead of most of those, unless you just can't stand the thought of living in Philly. Excellent program director.

 

[kidthor]

Any thoughts on how Western-PA/Allegheny General compares to Temple?

How about Tufts vs University of Maryland?

 

[Cathyran]

UAB>>>>>>>>>UTSW>UNC

UAB's program is hands down better than UNC's program (back to back 2 year accreditation with new leadership and matched half their class last year is a LOT to risk if you have UAB to rank). I don't know much about UTSW's program since I did not interview there, but IMO you would be silly in my mind to rank UNC ahead of UAB.

I tend to agree. I thought UAB had an exceptional program with a really great PD. Really the only flaw I saw there was their peds experience. I did not interview at UNC or UTSW, but I had a couple of classmates who did who said they felt that UNC is in a bit of a transitional period. (I also don't know how the caseload works out with Duke right down the street... maybe someone more in the know can comment on this?)

 

[surgeryrulez]

The 1-4 you listed is actually what my order has been going back to semi-regularly.

In terms of overall feeling of the programs its UPMC>UTSW=UW=Baylor

In terms of location preference its UTSW>UW>UPMC=Baylor

This ROL business is a huge mind*@$%

why no baylor love? i've heard UTSW is overworked and its not like they have better hospitals than the Texas medical Center, so the clinical experience can't be better, can it?

 

[chrisv]

I would put Temple ahead of most of those, unless you just can't stand the thought of living in Philly. Excellent program director.

I concur. Unless you've got something against Philly or someone totally rubbed you off the wrong way during your interview at Temple, I would put Temple ahead of all of those!

 

[chrisv]

Downstate... well if possible don't rank it. Strange interview day. Strange/inappropriate chief resident and even stranger PD in my opinion.
UIC seems like a really nice program, cannot speak for the others.

So I'm not the only one who thought that Downstate did a hell of a job of putting on the a good show. No pre-interview dinner = major red flag!!! (if you disagree on this, please chime in). Residents showed for the lunch at the end of the interview day when most of us were leaving. I stayed around to talk to a resident while the chief was hovering over the conversation, and I wouldn't say the resident seemed unhappy, just seemed disinterested.

Agreed, PD & chief gave off strange vibes.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Coincidentally, the programs I'm likely going to rank highest were the ones with the best dinners. The two I went to without dinners are at the bottom of my list. Really, though, having a good dinner says a lot about a program. It shows they care enough about you and your interest in their program to make you have a good experience while you're there. It's also your main opportunity to get to know the residents and how they interact with each other and get some real dirt on the program. In short, I totally agree that no dinner=bad juju.

 

[Cathyran]

Coincidentally, the programs I'm likely going to rank highest were the ones with the best dinners. The two I went to without dinners are at the bottom of my list. Really, though, having a good dinner says a lot about a program. It shows they care enough about you and your interest in their program to make you have a good experience while you're there. It's also your main opportunity to get to know the residents and how they interact with each other and get some real dirt on the program. In short, I totally agree that no dinner=bad juju.

100% agree. I learned a ton about the programs I interviewed at during the pre-interview dinner. The residents typically speak much more openly there. It also gives you a better opportunity to gauge how well you fit in with the residents as a group. Curiously, I also really enjoyed the dinners at my top choices. It may have been that I was more excited to be there, or maybe they sold me with a good meal. Hard to say.

 

[asmith1121]

Newark vs Downstate
These are towards the bottom of my rank list, but realizing that they could end up my reality...which one is better? any interviewee/resident thoughts?

 

[plexwriter5]

why no baylor love? i've heard UTSW is overworked and its not like they have better hospitals than the Texas medical Center, so the clinical experience can't be better, can it?

WHAT?! UTSW is overworked? That's something I never heard of before. I attended the dinner meeting the night before the interview and didn't get that vibe from the residents or other applicants. Does anybody know the avg work hours for UTSW?

 

[plexwriter5]

...

 

[plexwriter5]

Newark vs Downstate
These are towards the bottom of my rank list, but realizing that they could end up my reality...which one is better? any interviewee/resident thoughts?

I interviewed at both places. I would definitely rank Newark above Downstate. I talked to people who rotated at both places and heard some horror stories about Downstate (work load, PD, etc.) Both Newark and Brooklyn are not the best places to be so if I were you, I would put Downstate at the bottom of my list, if ranking it at all.

 

[asmith1121]

WHAT?! UTSW is overworked? That's something I never heard of before. I attended the dinner meeting the night before the interview and didn't get that vibe from the residents or other applicants. Does anybody know the avg work hours for UTSW?

I think that it USE to be that they were overworked- but def not anymore. I have a friend in the program, she loves it. It's def not a 40hr work week, but they get a lot of help from attendings and CRNAs. It use to have a "malignant" reputation. But not anymore.

I'm starting to agree about Newark, especially since they found a chair. I'm just not thrilled about location- safety seemed to be an issue, they joked about. So not sure what to make of it.

 

[lazylikeapanda]

Work hours at UTSW are variable depending on your site location/rotation/and CA level. In general, CA 1's have longer hours than CA 2/3's. For general anesthesia as a CA 1 at University Hospital- 55-60hrs/wk. The majority of your weekends are off and its home call. However, the weekdays can be pretty long and monotonous. Parkland is q4 days 24 hour in house call and average weekly work hours for CA1's are 60-70hrs. Call days you will be doing schedule cases and in the evenings you'll have a few hours of down time before being placed in the call pool for urgent/emergent cases. Non call/post call days you'll generally show up at 6am and leave by 3pm. VA general you'll generally show up at 630am and leave by 3pm, and will be on once maybe once or twice a month. SICU call averages q4days and are in house for 28hrs. Non call days you'll generally be out the door by 3pm. All CA1's do pre-op clinic, which is 5 days a week, no call, all weekends off, hours are usually 8-5.
CA 2/3's- work hours doing general cases at University Hospital are identical to the CA1s. Parkland call is still q4 days its 16hrs on weekdays and 24hrs on weekend call. All the subspecialty rotations (with the exception of ICU and Peds) are home call. On Ped's you'll generally start your day at 630am and end around 5pm. If you're on call on the week days its 16hrs and 24hrs for weekend call. On average I'm probably working 55hrs as a CA2 and probably averaged 65hrs as a CA1.

There are a few added time requirements; for instance you may be asked periodically to present an article at journal club, or present at M&M.

We may work harder compared to other anesthesia programs, but compared to other specialities (surgery/IM/peds) we don't work that hard. There is more than enough time to study, read, travel, learn a new hobby, etc.

 

[chrisv]

Any thoughts on how Western-PA/Allegheny General compares to Temple?

How about Tufts vs University of Maryland?

I'm kinda in the same boat, leaning more towards Temple cuz' Philly is more of my kinda city. People Allegheny seemed strong clinically, but their neighbors down the street would probably get first dibs on the cool stuff.

Tufts vs. Univ of Maryland--in terms of clinical straining, no doubt Maryland, especially with all the trauma they get. Tufts gets dwarfed by all the other boston hospitals. But then Boston >>> Baltimore. Toss up!

 

[inmyslumber]

Seriously? That type of attitude will not get you very far at all in life, and only serves to reinforce what the older generation already assumes about current trainees. Your intern year is the chance to solidify the base of clinical knowledge you will draw from for the remainder of your career (not to mention a chance to form lasting relationships with colleagues in other specialties). If you spend that year dicking around, not taking call, and leaving at 3 pm every day how on earth would you expect to ever learn or experience anything worth knowing?

I'm not saying you need to train somewhere with gratuitous work hours or be a scut-monkey for a year, but having an appropriately challenging intern year will provide you - and your future patients - with countless rewards.

I agree with scotchnwater. If you slack intern year, your residency may/will hear about it and you start with a poor reputation. Even if your intern year is at another hospital...have seen this a few times. Just do a good job no matter where you go. Learn as much as you can and when you leave, people will remember you fondly.
Being at a categorical program (esp. if at the same hospital) means one system to learn and you can build an even stronger reputation for yourself. You will have an advantage over other CA-1s if you are more familiar with the hospital, staff, doctors...in my humble opinion.

 

[Went2Jared]

The top and bottom of list are set. Having trouble with these. Anyone with opinions? Location is not so important. I'm looking for national reputation since I want the opportunity to do fellowship in other parts of the country after I finish residency.

UW in Seattle
U of Chicago
Columbia
Cornell
Michigan
UCLA
BIDMC

 

[Gern Blansten]

The top and bottom of list are set. Having trouble with these. Anyone with opinions? Location is not so important. I'm looking for national reputation since I want the opportunity to do fellowship in other parts of the country after I finish residency.

UW in Seattle
U of Chicago
Columbia
Cornell
Michigan
UCLA
BIDMC

All have good national recognition. Congrats on getting interviews at such prestigious locations.

 

[psu07]

Hey guys,

So I'm looking for some help. I'm looking to hopefully stay at in Texas and was wondering what you guys thought of these 3 programs. UT-Houston, UTMB, and UT-San Antonio. How would you rank these 3? Hopefully I hear from some of you who also interviewed there. Thanks

 

[bcat85]

The top and bottom of list are set. Having trouble with these. Anyone with opinions? Location is not so important. I'm looking for national reputation since I want the opportunity to do fellowship in other parts of the country after I finish residency.

UW in Seattle
U of Chicago
Columbia
Cornell
Michigan
UCLA
BIDMC

Interviewed at Michigan and BIDMC. Really liked Ann Arbor, but I felt that the curriculum was somewhat inflexible. I'm middle-of-the-road on BID. I didn't like Boston, but if you're up for living there, I think it's a great program with a pretty solid reputation. You really can't go wrong with any of these programs, though.

 

[AlgorithM]

1. University of Texas - Houston, TX
2. Washington University - St. Louis, MO
3. University of Washington - Seattle, WA
4. Ohio State University - Columbus, OH
5. University of Illinois - Chicago, IL
6. Case Western Reserve/UH - Cleveland, OH
7. Cleveland Clinic Foundation - Cleveland, OH
8. University of Kentucky - Lexington, KY
9. Medical University of South Carolina - Charleston, SC
10. Rush University - Chicago, IL
11. University of Rochester - Rochester, NY
12. Thomas Jefferson University - Philadelphia, PA
13. UMDNJ/NJSM - Newark, NJ
14. UMDNJ/RWJ - New Brunswick, NJ

*** didn't rank SUNY Upstate - Syracuse, NY

 

[MilkmanAl]

I've heard nothing but awful things about UT-Houston, so I definitely would not put that first. A few of the residents apparently described their experiences as a "beatdown" to several different groups of people. I don't know about you, but that's not at all what I'm looking for in a residency. On the other hand, Wash U seems to be pretty popular and have a lot of excellent perks.

As pure trainging goes, Kentucky deserves more love, in my opinion. That place was freaking awesome. Great curriculum, great PD, decent-good hours. It's not for you if you're trying to be in a decent-sized city, though.

 

[realmadridstorm]

UAB
UW
UTSW
WashU
UPMC
Mt. Sinai
NYU
Northwestern
UVA
IOWA

I go to school in TX but want to leave, no wife or kids, so location is flexible. Looking for a balance of good training and a fun city. Appreicate any comments

 

[AlgorithM]

I've heard nothing but awful things about UT-Houston, so I definitely would not put that first. A few of the residents apparently described their experiences as a "beatdown" to several different groups of people. I don't know about you, but that's not at all what I'm looking for in a residency. On the other hand, Wash U seems to be pretty popular and have a lot of excellent perks.

As pure trainging goes, Kentucky deserves more love, in my opinion. That place was freaking awesome. Great curriculum, great PD, decent-good hours. It's not for you if you're trying to be in a decent-sized city, though.

My confusion lies with geographical location vs prestige (national/international recognition). I know UT is not even in the list of institution with NIH funding but the weather is conducive. What made you say that the resident's experience at UT as a "beatdown"? Just curious.

Regarding University of Kentucky...I love this program. I felt the sincerity of the PD in providing an excellent training but the city is quite depressing.

 

[jwizle]

1. University of Texas - Houston, TX
2. Washington University - St. Louis, MO
3. University of Washington - Seattle, WA
4. Ohio State University - Columbus, OH
5. University of Illinois - Chicago, IL
6. Case Western Reserve/UH - Cleveland, OH
7. Cleveland Clinic Foundation - Cleveland, OH
8. University of Kentucky - Lexington, KY
9. Medical University of South Carolina - Charleston, SC
10. Rush University - Chicago, IL
11. University of Rochester - Rochester, NY
12. Thomas Jefferson University - Philadelphia, PA
13. UMDNJ/NJSM - Newark, NJ
14. UMDNJ/RWJ - New Brunswick, NJ

*** didn't rank SUNY Upstate - Syracuse, NY

Very interesting ROL, considering the programs you interviewed at. I'm quite surprised that UT-Houston is 1 on your list, considering the program is known for heavy hours and hit or miss faculty. Both Washington University of St Louis and UW are much more prestigious programs with a better reputation than UT-H. I would recommend ranking Washington University of St Louis 1 and then UW followed by UT-H. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck

 

[DrMccodell]

My ROL... Would be very happy with any of the majority of these programs but really hoping I get one in my top 4! Good luck to everyone and here's one to a quick next four weeks!

1. UTSW
2. Baylor
3. UT Houston
4. UW
5. Cleveland Clinic
6. Rush
7. UIC
8. St. Luke's Roosevelt
9. OU
10. A&M
11. UTMB
12. U. Of NM
13. Texas Tech
14. SUNY downstate
15. DMC/WSU

 

[chrisv]

My ROL... Would be very happy with any of the majority of these programs but really hoping I get one in my top 4! Good luck to everyone and here's one to a quick next four weeks!

1. UTSW
2. Baylor
3. UT Houston
4. UW
5. Cleveland Clinic
6. Rush
7. UIC
8. St. Luke's Roosevelt
9. OU
10. A&M
11. UTMB
12. U. Of NM
13. Texas Tech
14. SUNY downstate
15. DMC/WSU

DMC below Texas Tech?? Am I missing something here? Is this Lubbock (older) or the El Paso (newer) program?

 

[Cathyran]

Very interesting ROL, considering the programs you interviewed at. I'm quite surprised that UT-Houston is 1 on your list, considering the program is known for heavy hours and hit or miss faculty. Both Washington University of St Louis and UW are much more prestigious programs with a better reputation than UT-H. I would recommend ranking Washington University of St Louis 1 and then UW followed by UT-H. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck

I think I agree. I liked Wash U. They were one of the strongest overall programs I interviewed at, on par with Hopkins and Duke. My only concern there was that their residents seemed really worn down.

Don't know much about UW beyond reputation.

Either way, I'd probably put them both above UT-H

 

[MilkmanAl]

What made you say that the resident's experience at UT as a "beatdown"? Just curious.

That exact term was used by residents during at least 2 different interview sessions and heard by 3 of my friends. I cancelled my interview there after hearing that, so I don't have first-hand experience to report.

Regarding University of Kentucky...I love this program. I felt the sincerity of the PD in providing an excellent training but the city is quite depressing.

Agreed on all counts. Being a major college town counts for a lot, but Lexington wasn't exactly my favorite location.

 

[Ooglan]

..

 

[AnesApp]

Any thoughts on St Lukes, Cleveland Clinic, Tulane, UMDNJ-Newark? Would you think any of those programs malignant?

 

[asmith1121]

My ROL... Would be very happy with any of the majority of these programs but really hoping I get one in my top 4! Good luck to everyone and here's one to a quick next four weeks!

1. UTSW
2. Baylor
3. UT Houston
4. UW
5. Cleveland Clinic
6. Rush
7. UIC
8. St. Luke's Roosevelt
9. OU
10. A&M
11. UTMB
12. U. Of NM
13. Texas Tech
14. SUNY downstate
15. DMC/WSU

I think at minimum you will match at UT-Houston.

 

[asmith1121]

I'm kinda in the same boat, leaning more towards Temple cuz' Philly is more of my kinda city. People Allegheny seemed strong clinically, but their neighbors down the street would probably get first dibs on the cool stuff.

Tufts vs. Univ of Maryland--in terms of clinical straining, no doubt Maryland, especially with all the trauma they get. Tufts gets dwarfed by all the other boston hospitals. But then Boston >>> Baltimore. Toss up!

It's weird bc I never thought of UPMC as a competitive program- a guy at my school matched there with really low steps and it was his fourth choice. So I thought it was easy to get into- until I didn't get an interview. I did go to allegheny, liked it a lot but would hate to be second to any program in a city. That's their only flaw.

 

[DrMccodell]

DMC below Texas Tech?? Am I missing something here? Is this Lubbock (older) or the El Paso (newer) program?

I would rather stay in Texas than move to Detroit! Plus they both have horrible accreditation cycles (2 yrs each I think). I'm talking about the Lubbock program. But I really really hope that I don't match anywhere near that far down my list!

 

[DrMccodell]

I am curious as to why you ranked St. Luke's so low? Is it the location factor? It seemed to me that residents are able to pursue any fellowship afterward and that the work hours are reasonable. Although I have heard the intern year can be challenging.

Can't see myself in NYC unless I had a couple million in the bank lol other than that great program!

 

[jwizle]

My ROL... Would be very happy with any of the majority of these programs but really hoping I get one in my top 4! Good luck to everyone and here's one to a quick next four weeks!

1. UTSW
2. Baylor
3. UT Houston
4. UW
5. Cleveland Clinic
6. Rush
7. UIC
8. St. Luke's Roosevelt
9. OU
10. A&M
11. UTMB
12. U. Of NM
13. Texas Tech
14. SUNY downstate
15. DMC/WSU

Are you guys ranking both the categorical and advanced programs or either/or? For example, UTSW has both an categorial and advanced track. Did you rank one of the tracks 1 and the other track 2?

 

[DrMccodell]

Are you guys ranking both the categorical and advanced programs or either/or? For example, UTSW has both an categorial and advanced track. Did you rank the one of the tracks 1 and the other track 2?

No I ranked 4 advanced programs but further down, I think #12-16, I just didn't put it on my ROL I posted on this forum. I would rather be categorical in the end.

 

[WhateverMang]

Hey guys. Seems like people on here are really considering some high-power programs. Congrats! As for myself, I know I am not the strongest candidate but I am happy with the choices I have even though they are spread out all over the country. Any input on these programs and/or how you would rank them would be great. I put the list in alphabetical order.

Arizona
Case Western - University Hospitals
Iowa
Loma Linda
Ohio State
Tulane
UNC
Wisconsin

BTW i'm strongly considering critical care fellowship or maybe cardiac. How do these programs stack up in preparing me for these?

Thanks!

 

[AnesthesiaAC]

Hey guys. Seems like people on here are really considering some high-power programs. Congrats! As for myself, I know I am not the strongest candidate but I am happy with the choices I have even though they are spread out all over the country. Any input on these programs and/or how you would rank them would be great. I put the list in alphabetical order.

Arizona
Case Western - University Hospitals
Iowa
Loma Linda
Ohio State
Tulane
UNC
Wisconsin

BTW i'm strongly considering critical care fellowship or maybe cardiac. How do these programs stack up in preparing me for these?

Thanks!

I agree, don't let yourself feel inferior just because your list isn't MGH, Hopkins, UCSF, Stanford, etc...You have a very strong list and all of them, from what I've read and heard, are great places to train. I think it really comes down to where you want to be and how you felt during your interview visit. For instance, CW-UH is a great program, but I personally do not want to live in Cleveland. Same goes with Iowa and Wisconsin. Some others might not mind it though. I interviewed at Arizona and loved Tucson and of your list would probably have it in my top 2 with UNC (again based on location). Anyways, I'll give it a shot, location bias aside...

1) Iowa
2) Wisconsin
3) Case Western - UH
4) Ohio State
5) Arizona (great cardiac exposure)
6) UNC
7) Loma Linda
8) Tulane

And if it were me...(I don't need warm weather year round, but I hate deathly cold winters)
1) Arizona
2) UNC
3) Ohio State
4) Tulane
5) Loma Linda
6) Case Western - UH
7) Wisconsin
8) Iowa

 

[chrisv]

Again, no big names here, just a couple of toss-ups in the middle of my rank list.

1. Henry Ford vs. Univ of Buffalo--any thoughts?
a) Is HF really a "big name"? I hadn't heard of it until interview season.

2. Toledo Ohio vs. Augusta GA--which will give me better clinical training?

Also, given the competitive nature of prelims this year, I have a feeling that a lot of ppl are ranking categoricals higher than advanced.

 

[Cathyran]

Top and bottom are set. Just need a little help in the middle of my rank list. Opinions?

Hopkins
Vanderbilt
Michigan
UAB
NW

 

[rach4214]

Ok, throwing my hat in the ring....

I have my #1 set, but I'm having difficulty with 2-6. I'm looking for strong academics/reputation/ability to do whatever I want afterwards, location is important (but not the end all, be all for me), and I'm single, so there's that:

UCLA
MGH
Hopkins
Vanderbilt
BIDMC
Duke

 

[AnesthesiaAC]

Top and bottom are set. Just need a little help in the middle of my rank list. Opinions?

Hopkins
Vanderbilt
Michigan
UAB
NW

Generic
Hopkins> Michigan = UAB > Vandy = NW

Location
Vandy > UAB > NW > Hopkins > Michigan

My advice, rank in order of where you will be happiest living for these. All have great reputations and programs.Congrats on a great list!

 

[Cathyran]

Ok, throwing my hat in the ring....

I have my #1 set, but I'm having difficulty with 2-6. I'm looking for strong academics/reputation/ability to do whatever I want afterwards, location is important (but not the end all, be all for me), and I'm single, so there's that:

UCLA
MGH
Hopkins
Vanderbilt
BIDMC
Duke

There's a good thread on this from earlier in the week. I think it's the "help me rank these 6 places" thread.