The Comeback Kid

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stringerbell81

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I started college in the fall of 2008. For the first three semesters I literally did nothing. At the beginning of my fourth semester I thought my pre-med dreams were over, but decided to speak with our pre-med advisor one last time. He reviewed my (awful) grades and told me if i turn around, i could still have a chance. Ever since that meeting I have done nothing but work my hardest. Please take the time to review my grades below. I realize this will be a lengthy post but it is necessary for encouragement (or the harsh truth that i dont have a chance) from all of you guys:

Fall 2008
Bio I: F
Bio I Lab: F
Eng. Comp: NC
Pre-Cal: NC
Psych 101: W
Elective: D
GPA: 0.429

Spring 2009
Academic Bankruptcy Declared for this semester; no premed prerequisites though

Fall 2009
Comp. Science: D
Econ: W
Eng Comp.: W
Precal: C-
Psych 101: F
GPA: 0.89

Now the turnaround begins...

Spring 2010
Gen Chem I: A-
Elective: A
Econ I: A+
Eng Comp I: A
Engineering Course: W (i no longer needed it b/c i was back to premed)
GPA: 3.8 (w/ A+'s = 3.97)

Summer 2010
Gen Chem II: B-
Trig: B-
Econ II: W
GPA: 2.67

Fall 2010 (When i really knuckled down and start taking more hours)
Bio I:A
Bio I Lab: A-
O. Chem I: A-
Eng. Comp II: A
Cal.: B+
Psych 101: A+
GPA: 3.765 (w/ A+'s = 3.82)

Spring 2011:
Bio II: A
Bio II Lab: A
O. Chem II: A
O. Chem Lab: A
Stats: A+
Pscyh 365: A
Research: A
GPA: 4.0

Summer 2011:
Research: A+
Physics I: A
Physics II: A
GPA: 4.0

Fall 2011:
Research: A+
Brit Lit I: A+
Psych 355: A+
Psych 356: A+
Psych 372: A
Research: A
Spanish: A
GPA: 4.0

Spring 2012:
either a 4.0 or close to it

So as you can see I have slowly, but surely, improved my grades as i have taken large course loads with difficult courses. I realize that I have something to prove and I am doing my best to prove it. My gpa as of now is around 3.28 (3.35) and my science gpa is around 3.78 (although im not entirely sure how to calculate it). I'm taking the MCAT in May and plan to get a 30 or above( as we all do) and earn 300+ hours experience over the summer. Also, by the time i graduate next May i will have 5 years combined research with at least two publications in organic chemistry and psychology. Not to mention I will be one of few undergrads listed as first author in organic synthesis b/c i have done all of the work for it.

Excuses could be made for my first few semesters, but that is NOT how i roll. My hard work and dedication to school, research, friends, and family is my way of showing that freshman year was a fluke. While keeping in mind that my GPA will go up slightly by the time i apply next fall, what do you guys think, do i have a chance?!?
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I think you have made a valiant effort to pull your academic career together and it has definitely shown by your grades. That will not go unnoticed so all is not lost. The first author publications and dedication to research is also worthy of attention. I have to agree with CanadianPreMed, your cGPA is a bit on the low side and remember you will be competing against thousands of applicants who have fared well. A 30+ MCAT will boost your application.

Another thing I might add is that you do not mention any significant clinical experience (is that 300 hrs indicating clinical experience?). Most premeds think shadowing in a doctor's office for a few days is all that's needed. I would really get engaged in shadowing/following a physician around or being involved with clinical activities somehow.

Apply broadly and early to DO and MD schools. At the same time, I would put an application in towards Master's/Postbac programs just in case so you have a backup plan (people do this to boost their GPA) and then reapply. You have a strong case, given you take the necessary steps to make up for the weak spots. Stay the course, you'll get in somewhere.
 
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stringerbell81 said:
While keeping in mind that my GPA will go up slightly by the time i apply next fall, what do you guys think, do i have a chance?!?
Click to expand...

GREAT job on your turnaround. I'd really like to see you start a thread in the pre-med forums about how you changed your study habits, what you learned and how you changed your routine to make such a rapid uptick in grades. I think that would be so helpful to lots of other students!

I'm not seeing any shadowing or clinical experience in your ECs- do you have that, or did you just not list anything? If not, try to get in-hospital volunteer experience and also maybe a job that works with patients. Consider a job this summer like EMT-b, scribe, some sort of tech or medical assistant.

Another thing you might want to consider is to get a LOR from a professor who knew you BEFORE you got serious AND after... that way they could speak to your refocus, redemption, whatever you want to call it.
 
stringerbell81 said:
I started college in the fall of 2008. For the first three semesters I literally did nothing. At the beginning of my fourth semester I thought my pre-med dreams were over, but decided to speak with our pre-med advisor one last time. He reviewed my (awful) grades and told me if i turn around, i could still have a chance. Ever since that meeting I have done nothing but work my hardest. Please take the time to review my grades below. I realize this will be a lengthy post but it is necessary for encouragement (or the harsh truth that i dont have a chance) from all of you guys:

Fall 2008
Bio I: F
Bio I Lab: F
Eng. Comp: NC
Pre-Cal: NC
Psych 101: W
Elective: D
GPA: 0.429

Spring 2009
Academic Bankruptcy Declared for this semester; no premed prerequisites though

Fall 2009
Comp. Science: D
Econ: W
Eng Comp.: W
Precal: C-
Psych 101: F
GPA: 0.89

Now the turnaround begins...

Spring 2010
Gen Chem I: A-
Elective: A
Econ I: A+
Eng Comp I: A
Engineering Course: W (i no longer needed it b/c i was back to premed)
GPA: 3.8 (w/ A+'s = 3.97)

Summer 2010
Gen Chem II: B-
Trig: B-
Econ II: W
GPA: 2.67

Fall 2010 (When i really knuckled down and start taking more hours)
Bio I:A
Bio I Lab: A-
O. Chem I: A-
Eng. Comp II: A
Cal.: B+
Psych 101: A+
GPA: 3.765 (w/ A+'s = 3.82)

Spring 2011:
Bio II: A
Bio II Lab: A
O. Chem II: A
O. Chem Lab: A
Stats: A+
Pscyh 365: A
Research: A
GPA: 4.0

Summer 2011:
Research: A+
Physics I: A
Physics II: A
GPA: 4.0

Fall 2011:
Research: A+
Brit Lit I: A+
Psych 355: A+
Psych 356: A+
Psych 372: A
Research: A
Spanish: A
GPA: 4.0

Spring 2012:
either a 4.0 or close to it

So as you can see I have slowly, but surely, improved my grades as i have taken large course loads with difficult courses. I realize that I have something to prove and I am doing my best to prove it. My gpa as of now is around 3.28 (3.35) and my science gpa is around 3.78 (although im not entirely sure how to calculate it). I'm taking the MCAT in May and plan to get a 30 or above( as we all do) and earn 300+ hours experience over the summer. Also, by the time i graduate next May i will have 5 years combined research with at least two publications in organic chemistry and psychology. Not to mention I will be one of few undergrads listed as first author in organic synthesis b/c i have done all of the work for it.

Excuses could be made for my first few semesters, but that is NOT how i roll. My hard work and dedication to school, research, friends, and family is my way of showing that freshman year was a fluke. While keeping in mind that my GPA will go up slightly by the time i apply next fall, what do you guys think, do i have a chance?!?
Click to expand...

You won't be getting into Harvard Med, but otherwise, the worst case scenario is that it may take a postbac or SMP to fully convince M.D. programs you would thrive there, and given your obscenely high trajectory I have full faith in your ability to excel there and send this thing home. I really don't see you having a problem with D.O. programs, which are typically more forgiving of circumstances such as yours. You need the other stuff too (like clinical volunteering), and you should be ready to explain your ghastly start, but GPA-wise, I think you're in for a pleasant surprise as to how many doors remain open for you. Just keep up the good work!!!
 
First of all, thanks to of you for your feedback. It had been very helpful and I am very happy that I found this forum

With regards to clinical/shadowing experience:
I have some shadowing experience in orthopedics and primary care, but this summer I will be shadowing full time and have calculated that I will earn at least 300 hours. I will hopefully be in a couple of different fields, but I was thinking of putting my focus into primary care. We had someone from UAB speak to us recently and he mentioned primary care shadowing as being important. What do you guys think of that?

Thanks again to everyone
 
One last detail concerning letters of rec.

all of my LOR's thus far have come from professors who approached me about the letter. They made it very clear that they appreciated my hard work and wanted to make sure only the best was said about me. I'm a personable person who is determined and willing to work. My professors have seen this, I just need to make sure the med schools see it
 
if i were an admission's officer (which i am not), i'd probably look for a 33+ MCAT score. if you got that, I think I'd definitely plead to interview you--simply because I was curious as to wtf happened during your first year. I think it'd be a great conversation starter, personally.
 
stringerbell81 said:
I have some shadowing experience in orthopedics and primary care, but this summer I will be shadowing full time and have calculated that I will earn at least 300 hours. I will hopefully be in a couple of different fields, but I was thinking of putting my focus into primary care. We had someone from UAB speak to us recently and he mentioned primary care shadowing as being important. What do you guys think of that?
Click to expand...
I agree that primary care shadowing is important and generally recommend it myself, regardless of your eventual career goals. Having 300 hours would be an extraordinary amount of shadowing hours (considering that about 50 hours is the average listed). Is it possible you could use some of that time instead to gain volunteer clinical experience where you actively engage with sick people? Shadowing is considered a passive observership where you observe what the physician does, rather than focusing on the patient. Most schools expect both types of activity.
 
Shadowing a certain specialty will not add too much utility, even primary care. Sure, some schools emphasize primary care more than others, but I think overall, it's more important that you get something out of the experience that shows you really enjoyed your time there and you deeply understand the commitment necessary to be at medical school. A great letter from your mentor would also be a invaluable addition to your application if he or she can speak to your dedication and character.

All the best.
 
maybe you're friend is not a good interviewer
 
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DRymcmb said:
I have a dear friend that is a 4.0 biochem major, 43 MCAT, numerous first author publications, years of volunteering at the children's hospital, and she is waitlisted at every school she interviewed.
Click to expand...

Clearly there's a red flag in her application somewhere. Either that or she struggles in certain social situations that you aren't even aware of.

OP, continue to work hard and try to gain some clinical experience. With a 33+ you're sure to snag some interviews, although they probably won't be at your top choice schools. Good luck!
 
DRymcmb said:
Niners suck man. Real men wear black. 510 all day.

As for the "red flag"- Nobody with an overall resume like that has a red flag. Get your head out of the ground. You could only dream of having those qualifications. You should be so lucky to be "red flagged."

Man you guys are pathetic.
Click to expand...

I know :(

Oh, how I dream of being waitlisted at every school!
 
DRymcmb said:
You people are amazing- Anyone could write any story and you all will reach from the depths to create some sort of rah rah story to make yourselves feel better about your mistakes. I had a 3.6 undergrad (chemistry), 4.0 grad (MS chemistry), 90th + percentile MCAT, 3 years hospice volunteering, publications, seminars. shadowing, and life experience. I had to pray for the limited opportunities I received since applying. I have a dear friend that is a 4.0 biochem major, 43 MCAT, numerous first author publications, years of volunteering at the children's hospital, and she is waitlisted at every school she interviewed. I am so sorry to be the only negative person here, but you messed up. There is no explanation, short of you taking those classes while serving in Baghdad, that will justify "not doing anything" to receive those grades. Your turn around since then is very commendable, and is something to be proud of. But med school is not for someone who was sitting around casually receiving those abhorrent grades. Look into PhD work- you can work at your pace, have a relatively relaxing schedule, and never have real expectations of performance on you outside of a few publications to get tenured somewhere. Good luck.
(Let the attacks on my post begin)
Click to expand...

pretty low-level trolling. where are the mods?
 
As for the "red flag"- Nobody with an overall resume like that has a red flag. Get your head out of the ground. You could only dream of having those qualifications. You should be so lucky to be "red flagged."
Click to expand...

Ah, yeah. People with exceptional numbers still have "red flags." People skills are immensely important to admission committees (who knew?), so a poor interview can make or break your application. In fact, we just had an adcom member from a local medical school at our pre-med club. He told us about a student with very similar, if not identical numbers, but he was so awkward during the interview that the adcom doubted he could work well with people, and had to turn him down.

News Flash: You need brains AND a heart to be a good doctor. A 4.0 does not a physician make. And given your elitist attitude, I am not surprised things have been difficult for you.
 
To get this thread back on track:

I would recommend having far fewer shadowing hours, and instead maximize your time studying for the MCAT. Like you, I had an "aha" moment and turned my GPA around (2.6 for 3 semesters to 3.95 for 6 more). I think what convinced the adcoms that I had what it took was that I got a score that was top 2%. Take that same commitment you made towards being academically perfect and apply it to the MCAT. Shoot for a 37-40, it doesn't take a genius. It took me ~9 months studying (Berkeley Review books), which is significantly longer than most people, but it was critical for my application's success.

To reiterate: It doesn't take a genius to do well on the mcat; rather, it takes the type of commitment that you showed in attaining near academic perfection. Get the 37-40! and I think that some schools will look beyond your poor early performance.

Other lesser advice: make your application stand out, don't overemphasize your poor grades in your PS (which was contrary to my premed adviser's advice, but it was never brought up in an interview. Also, I did not want to be thought of as a "turnaround applicant".)

Anyways, don't listen to that jerk. Good for you for turning it around, I know that it wasn't easy!
 
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DRymcmb said:
Yeah, I'm a jerk. A jerk that's gonna be an MD. Have fun paying for a status at USC. When you get a minute, feel free to take a walk around the Coliseum, say 2 in the morning, and make yourself acquainted with the fine gentlemen sporting those red bandannas. I hear they are very supportive and caring and never do or say anything harsh, mean, rude, or selfish.
Click to expand...

It actually looks like you are going to Touro-NV, which is a DO school. So you're a jerk that's gonna be a DO. And you're the worst type of DO it seems from your past posts, the type that sees the DO degree as a backup to an MD degree rather an a different philosophy/approach to medicine. I'm glad that you weren't accepted to Western, I would have felt badly that my fiance would have had you degrading the quality of her class. Lastly, I'm glad that you weren't able to reach your aspiration of obtaining an MD degree, I do wonder though if your career shortcoming is leading to your anger and insulting posts and if those feelings of insecurity will be pervasive in your career as a non-MD.

And to bring this post back: OP, should you decide to go the DO route please don't act like they are under or inferior or a backup to MD schools. I can really only speak for Western (where my fiance will be matriculating) COMP outside of LA, but they have a very different philosophy centered around compassionate and holistic care. It is, however, not inferior to allopathic schools! If you do decide to apply DO, do it for the right reasons because many are wonderful schools that stand to benefit from students that are actually interested in their unique philosophy. Plus OMM is an amazing modality that is far superior to chiropractic care!
 
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DRymcmb, you are entitled to your opinions, however narrow or expansive they may be, but judging from some of your history of posts that are not so constructive, I am guessing you are on here to lash out from your own pile of misconstrued perceptions on how adcoms work. We get that you worked your butt off and you have a friend who has as well, but that's the name of the game when it comes to applying to medical school. There are extremely bright students in my class who are 33+ MCAT/ 4.0 GPA with Master's/1st author publications before medical school and there are a lot without those statistics but who have made a showing in other areas. Personally, I could care less that anyone has done all those things if you do not have the heart nor character to show for it. There must have been red flags, personality issues, or lack of interpersonal skills, etc which are equally, if not more important. There are so many medical students who have their heads stuck so far up their butt, that they disrespect their own colleagues and do not have a clue when it comes to clinical medicine.

I cannot tell you how many people I have had to rate badly in interviews, who hold stellar accomplishments on paper, but came off as arrogant, irrationally nervous, unprepared, or unprofessional. By no means am I stating this to imply that any of these might apply to you or your dear friend but I am trying to make a point that medcoms are way more complex and misinterpreted than most people like to believe. I remember when I was a premed and was surprised with how many more well-qualified candidates than myself were turned down.
Unfortunately, patients are not asking how many publications you have or what GPA you received. Medical school curriculum is not hard in that the content is abstract or esoteric but rather challenging due to the volume of material that students are required to digest in just two years. And then clinical medicine really begins with rotations with call, endless hours of rounding, evaluating, communicating. Who do you think is going to shine? The "smart" person who can read that book and regurgitate/score a 35+ MCAT or the student who received a 28 or even 27 and 26 but has the heart to work hard 12+ hours a day and excel in patient management and care on top of pressure from senior residents/attendings.

Again, I am sure you wrote all that to take out your own disappointment and surprise in how unfair medcom admissions can be but it's a complete crapshoot sometimes. But I would tone down the voice of your message and make it more constructive if you wanted to shed any real mature opinion on the matter. No one denies the OP has flaws, but he has really worked his tail off and that shows. He has a fighting chance and as a fellow colleague, this forum is about encouraging each other with constructive criticism, not outright bashing.
 
DRymcmb, you must seriously come off as a serial killer or something to have had such a bad app cycle with those stats. Med schools don't want psychopaths.

I know several people who got in with way lower stats than you to plenty of MD schools.
 
I'll have to disagree with the post-bacc/smp people here and say you'll get admitted if you score at your target school's average on the MCAT. You've proven enough your capacity to do well. Just try to get that cGPA at the 10th percentile or higher.
 
TriagePreMed said:
I'll have to disagree with the post-bacc/smp people here and say you'll get admitted if you score at your target school's average on the MCAT. You've proven enough your capacity to do well. Just try to get that cGPA at the 10th percentile or higher.
Click to expand...

I agree with this; do well on the MCAT, keep adding to your EC experiences, and apply broadly. I believe you can get into an MD program :thumbup:
 
MalibuPreMD said:
To get this thread back on track:

I would recommend having far fewer shadowing hours, and instead maximize your time studying for the MCAT. Like you, I had an "aha" moment and turned my GPA around (2.6 for 3 semesters to 3.95 for 6 more). I think what convinced the adcoms that I had what it took was that I got a score that was top 2%. Take that same commitment you made towards being academically perfect and apply it to the MCAT. Shoot for a 37-40, it doesn't take a genius. It took me ~9 months studying (Berkeley Review books), which is significantly longer than most people, but it was critical for my application's success.

To reiterate: It doesn't take a genius to do well on the mcat; rather, it takes the type of commitment that you showed in attaining near academic perfection. Get the 37-40! and I think that some schools will look beyond your poor early performance.

Other lesser advice: make your application stand out, don't overemphasize your poor grades in your PS (which was contrary to my premed adviser's advice, but it was never brought up in an interview. Also, I did not want to be thought of as a "turnaround applicant".)

Anyways, don't listen to that jerk. Good for you for turning it around, I know that it wasn't easy!
Click to expand...

Completely agree with everything said here. Also, great job with the turnaround! Don't listen to the naysayers and don't give up on your dreams.

I had an atrocious, sub-3.0 GPA for the first 1.5 years of undergrad, but fought my way back with a string of 3.7-4.0 quarters and scored a 36 on the MCAT.

Like MalibuPreMD, I cannot over-emphasize the important of the MCAT in offsetting a low GPA. It lends a great deal of credibility to your academic potential. Dedicate yourself wholly to the test and you will see results.
 
lol, DRymcmb's post history is hilarious. He lies about getting into a MD school, and goes to threads where people were accepted to MD schools and ridicules everyone while calling them narcissists... classic

but back to OP. Apply broadly. I ened my freshman year with a 3.2, averaged about a 3.75 over the last three years, and ended with a 3.6. The upward trend didnt really seem to help as far as MD schools go: 1 interview (wait listed and eventually rejected), and outright rejected at about 8 others. I had a 30 mcat, about 150 volunteer hours, and 75 shadowing.

was accepted to a DO school however.

MD is going to be very very difficult, so throw in some SMPs in there (if you insist upon MD) or DO schools and you should be fine.
 
I am on the similar path myself. I took a bunch of classes in the military (even on deployments) not thinking anything of it. C's were fine with me because taking classes was my EC activity at the time. Soon after the change of career paths did I realize that my GPA needed a dramatic shift, not that I needed an excuse to work hard anyway. Good job on the grades and best of luck with getting an acceptance! :thumbup:

-Spurg
 
Wow amazing! CONGRATS OP!

As someone who will be a very similar applicant to you in the future, what were your final gpas/MCAT score? What schools did you have success at? Congrats again, so amazing!
 
I received interviews at both of my in state schools. I was accepted to one the next day and should be hearing back from the other sometime this month. I was fortunate to be asked what the biggest challenge was for me, to which I responded the "not knowing." Ever since I started down this path I truly had no idea if I even had a slight chance at getting in. Which, as you can imagine, made giving 101% fairly difficult. I didn't give up and I never slowed down. If anybody else is in my shoes, I strongly encourage you to try your best. If you have any questions or want to know my stats feel free to PM me. It takes a lot of work to come from the bottom, but it is most definitely possible.
 
This is so awesome. Congrats! You should be very, very proud of that impressive gpa turnaround and acceptance.
 
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