The difference between a publication and a FIRST AUTHOR publication?

[Spinach Dip]

Okay, so we all know that having a publication (or a couple) to your name is good for applying to med schools.

But does a first-author publication mean any more? If I did 95% of the work on a publication, does that mean more to med schools than a third-author pub where I did 11% of the work?

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[pluto101]

Yes, but the difference is overrated.

 

[Goro]

A first-author pub is very good.

Okay, so we all know that having a publication (or a couple) to your name is good for applying to med schools.

But does a first-author publication mean any more? If I did 95% of the work on a publication, does that mean more to med schools than a third-author pub where I did 11% of the work?

 

[Dr.Zoidberg]

I have pretty strong feelings about this, so be warned I'm biased, but I'll give my $0.02.

I think pretty much anything other than 1st author publications as an undergrad should mean nothing more than the time and experience in the lab. I saw a girl get a 3rd author pub after just 2 months of mindlessly doing what a post-doc was telling her to do for 5 hours/week. The girl failed out of our program a month later. I've also seen people fight to work with a post-doc because she was absolutely brilliant and working under her for a summer meant 2-3 2nd author publications. Then you have students who slave away in a lab, produce a huge amount of data for a paper, and don't even get an acknowledgement because the PI of the lab doesn't believe in publishing undergrads (happened to me, hence my bias).

That being said, a first author pub is undeniable proof that you had to think through the experiments and plan/execute them successfully. However, because research publication opportunity is SO variable in undergrad, I think the biggest contributing factors should be the LOR and the student's knowledge of his/her research at the interview. If you've ever talked to an undergrad about their research, you know pretty quickly whether or not they are the mind behind the experiments or simply an extra pair of hands in the lab. Any student can regurgitate the contents of a review they read on their field, but someone who truly contributes to the research will know how each and every step of a reaction/process contributes to the final result, and in great detail.

 

[Holmwood]

Then you have students who slave away in a lab, produce a huge amount of data for a paper, and don't even get an acknowledgement because the PI of the lab doesn't believe in publishing undergrads (happened to me, hence my bias).

That's terrible! : /

 

[lumpyduster]

A first-author pub is very good.

Goro (or anyone else) my work was just accepted to JACS and I'll be first author - do you know how much of a boost this would be for my application to top research universities? My GPA is 3.9 and my MCAT is 35. I don't have as much clinical volunteering as other people though, and my EC's aren't that intriguing. I was going to make a separate thread but this seems related

 

[aegistitan]

Publications from undergrads are a great indicator of nepotism, not so much hard work. Time served, LORs, and interviews are what I think are the best measures. Most undergrads talk about their "publications", which are really middle author publications and again relate back to nepotism. It's impossible to know how much effort and thought they put into that project they "published".

As a grad student when you spend years full-time on research in a funded lab with appropriate background, publications become a good way to measure productivity. Before that, forget it.

First author abstracts presented at real conferences with peer review matter. We generally know which ones those are.

Honors thesis is a waste of time IMO.

 

[Goro]

I don't think the publication will serve as a replacement for clinical volunteering. But if you're applying now, it still can't hurt to have that arrow in your quiver.

Goro (or anyone else) my work was just accepted to JACS and I'll be first author - do you know how much of a boost this would be for my application to top research universities? My GPA is 3.9 and my MCAT is 35. I don't have as much clinical volunteering as other people though, and my EC's aren't that intriguing. I was going to make a separate thread but this seems related

 

[cs24]

Okay, so we all know that having a publication (or a couple) to your name is good for applying to med schools.

But does a first-author publication mean any more? If I did 95% of the work on a publication, does that mean more to med schools than a third-author pub where I did 11% of the work?

First author > any other author.

That said, will it matter for medical school apps? Not so much since any publication can give you a leg up on the competition. Much more important later on in your career IMO, like when applying for residency to research-intensive programs (to be clear, I am referring to pubs from med school regarding residency apps, not undergrad research).

 

[Australopithekus]

First author = conducted most of the research, usually did most of the writing.
Final author = PI
Everyone in between = could range from being a secondary investigator to tech who happened to be in the room at the right time. In my experience, the latter seems to be especially common in clinical research.

Like Dr. Zoidberg, I think a first author publication should be weighed far more heavily than a second, third, fourth... author pub. It's not my call, though.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Yes

 

[Catalystik]

I think the biggest contributing factors should be the LOR and the student's knowledge of his/her research at the interview. If you've ever talked to an undergrad about their research, you know pretty quickly whether or not they are the mind behind the experiments or simply an extra pair of hands in the lab. . . . someone who truly contributes to the research will know how each and every step of a reaction/process contributes to the final result, and in great detail.

And it's sad how often the latter isn't true when it comes to interview time.

 

[Dr.Zoidberg]

This thread is encouraging, making me think all those hours spent in lab will be appreciated after all.

 

[IncognitoGuy]

I have pretty strong feelings about this, so be warned I'm biased, but I'll give my $0.02.

I think pretty much anything other than 1st author publications as an undergrad should mean nothing more than the time and experience in the lab. I saw a girl get a 3rd author pub after just 2 months of mindlessly doing what a post-doc was telling her to do for 5 hours/week. The girl failed out of our program a month later. I've also seen people fight to work with a post-doc because she was absolutely brilliant and working under her for a summer meant 2-3 2nd author publications. Then you have students who slave away in a lab, produce a huge amount of data for a paper, and don't even get an acknowledgement because the PI of the lab doesn't believe in publishing undergrads (happened to me, hence my bias).

That being said, a first author pub is undeniable proof that you had to think through the experiments and plan/execute them successfully. However, because research publication opportunity is SO variable in undergrad, I think the biggest contributing factors should be the LOR and the student's knowledge of his/her research at the interview. If you've ever talked to an undergrad about their research, you know pretty quickly whether or not they are the mind behind the experiments or simply an extra pair of hands in the lab. Any student can regurgitate the contents of a review they read on their field, but someone who truly contributes to the research will know how each and every step of a reaction/process contributes to the final result, and in great detail.

This. All of this.

If you put down research, you WILL be asked about it. Even if you're non-first author (or not even author at all), expect to be grilled on any troubleshooting you did, original thoughts, steps, etc. and how you worked through them. If you truly put in the time, you will be able to answer all of it and that will leave a much stronger impression when it comes to deliberating on your case versus the first-author premed who couldn't do any of that.