The effect of Undergrad School on Med School Acceptance

[MD1Day]

So here's the issue i'm dealing with right now:

i recently transfered out of a very competitive private university to a larger public university. My only reason for transfering were financial issues, i recieve no financial aid (well, OK..$250.00/year, woohoo). I was spending more money on my undergrad education than i will on my med school.

Now I'm concerned that this may affect my acceptance to the school's i will apply for. I just found out the several of the students at my new school received very low MCAT's (below 24), and only average GPA's. I know that i will far surpase those numbers, but it worries me that as soon as they see this school on my application, they'll just trash it because "it wouldn't take much to get that GPA from a school like that"

I'm regreting transfering already, but i cannot afford my last school..it would actually be cheaper to go out of state to somewhere like UNC or Duke...which brings me to my next dilemma...

I would love to go out of state to a much more prestigious school, however my concerns are my dad's health. He has renal cell carcinoma, and they recently detected a small spot on the good kidney. I would really hate to be 5 hours away from home with my dad's condition so up in the air. I know, i know...personal issue, but i guess i just had to vent and get it off my chest...i deal with it.

Anyways, before i started rambling off the subject, anyone in or been in the same boat with the undergrad situation? How did that turn out for you? Advice/Comments/Complaints?

Thanks in advanced!

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[ascrimmins]

I wouldn't worry about it. I got SCREWED by going to a competitive private college. I earned A's at every school I took summer classes at - while working full time - (I took them at some competitive schools in/around Boston) and was a low A/high B student at my college. I had solid (30+) MCATs, great extracurriculars, and was accepted or waitlisted everywhere that actually gave me an interview. The problem was getting my foot in the door.

I hypothesize that had I gone to a different school and received A's, partied my butt off, and had time to study for (and rock) the MCAT, my med school application experience would have been totally different (and probably better).

I'm sure I'll get attacked for this, but that's what I think.

 

[heeter]

It depends... I went to a public branch of UTexas that has zero reputation (UTDallas)... I graduated in 97 and went back for classes in Austin (main UT campus) and interviewed at Duke, WashU, and Southwestern. Waitlisted at WashU, accepted Southwestern. If your goal is an eastcoast school, a private high prestige uni will help. Otherwise, only thing that matters is you.

 

[MD1Day]

Thanks very much to both of you for the input! I'm really stressing about this...i just don't want it to be soemthing i regret.

Again, thanks for your views, i appriciate it!

 

[AnotherDork]

I wouldn't worry about it. I got SCREWED by going to a competitive private college. I earned A's at every school I took summer classes at - while working full time - (I took them at some competitive schools in/around Boston) and was a low A/high B student at my college. I had solid (30+) MCATs, great extracurriculars, and was accepted or waitlisted everywhere that actually gave me an interview. The problem was getting my foot in the door.

I hypothesize that had I gone to a different school and received A's, partied my butt off, and had time to study for (and rock) the MCAT, my med school application experience would have been totally different (and probably better).

I'm sure I'll get attacked for this, but that's what I think.

I second this- similar situation, and if I had to do it over again, I'd save the debt and just try to do really well at another (less expensive) place. SCREWED is exactly how I would describe the situation.

Of course, if I had to do it over again, I'd just have tried a little harder to do really well PERIOD. But I'd still have the debt.

MD1Day, you made the right decision.

 

[chaeymaey]

I second this- similar situation, and if I had to do it over again, I'd save the debt and just try to do really well at another (less expensive) place. SCREWED is exactly how I would describe the situation.

Of course, if I had to do it over again, I'd just have tried a little harder to do really well PERIOD. But I'd still have the debt.

MD1Day, you made the right decision.

I third this. I realized I was getting screwed at my private college my soph year, so my junior year I took my prereqs at my state school while taking other classes at the private college.

 

[MD1Day]

I third this. I realized I was getting screwed at my private college my soph year, so my junior year I took my prereqs at my state school while taking other classes at the private college.

Chaeymaey & Another Dork- Thanks, you're helping me to realize that i may be over-dramatizing a bit. I'm feeling better getting positive & honest feedback from everone

THANKS!!

 

[LSU-Tech]

So here's the issue i'm dealing with right now:

i recently transfered out of a very competitive private university to a larger public university. My only reason for transfering were financial issues, i recieve no financial aid (well, OK..$250.00/year, woohoo). I was spending more money on my undergrad education than i will on my med school.

Now I'm concerned that this may affect my acceptance to the school's i will apply for. I just found out the several of the students at my new school received very low MCAT's (below 24), and only average GPA's. I know that i will far surpase those numbers, but it worries me that as soon as they see this school on my application, they'll just trash it because "it wouldn't take much to get that GPA from a school like that"

I'm regreting transfering already, but i cannot afford my last school..it would actually be cheaper to go out of state to somewhere like UNC or Duke...which brings me to my next dilemma...

I would love to go out of state to a much more prestigious school, however my concerns are my dad's health. He has renal cell carcinoma, and they recently detected a small spot on the good kidney. I would really hate to be 5 hours away from home with my dad's condition so up in the air. I know, i know...personal issue, but i guess i just had to vent and get it off my chest...i deal with it.

Anyways, before i started rambling off the subject, anyone in or been in the same boat with the undergrad situation? How did that turn out for you? Advice/Comments/Complaints?

Thanks in advanced!

It's kind of illegal for a school to trash your application based on your school. Especially if most of the students at you school do poorly, it probally means that your school does'nt spoon feed their student like most private schools. If you surpass your peers you will stand out. If you have a 29+ MCAT it would be very unconstitutional for a school to disregard your application bases on the school you graduated from.

 

[Noway]

I'm not to ashamed to say that my undergrad school (Georgia State University) sucks too. The school is not hard to get into and is filled with people who dont really want to be there. In an issue of our school newspaper they had an interesting statistic. "Given 6 years to graduate, 68% of the degree-seeking students at Georgia State will not gradutate" That pretty much sums up the school. This post relieved a few of my worries though.

 

[g3pro]

Honestly, undergrad doesn't matter to a certain degree, and I don't want to explain that here. But I'll give a little advice: don't go to a private school if it means paying buttloads to go there over a state school. If the state school is really good, go there, and you'll have more opportunities there in certain areas than other schools.

 

[gutye]

So here's the issue i'm dealing with right now:

i recently transfered out of a very competitive private university to a larger public university. My only reason for transfering were financial issues, i recieve no financial aid (well, OK..$250.00/year, woohoo). I was spending more money on my undergrad education than i will on my med school.

Now I'm concerned that this may affect my acceptance to the school's i will apply for. I just found out the several of the students at my new school received very low MCAT's (below 24), and only average GPA's. I know that i will far surpase those numbers, but it worries me that as soon as they see this school on my application, they'll just trash it because "it wouldn't take much to get that GPA from a school like that"

I'm regreting transfering already, but i cannot afford my last school..it would actually be cheaper to go out of state to somewhere like UNC or Duke...which brings me to my next dilemma...

I would love to go out of state to a much more prestigious school, however my concerns are my dad's health. He has renal cell carcinoma, and they recently detected a small spot on the good kidney. I would really hate to be 5 hours away from home with my dad's condition so up in the air. I know, i know...personal issue, but i guess i just had to vent and get it off my chest...i deal with it.

Anyways, before i started rambling off the subject, anyone in or been in the same boat with the undergrad situation? How did that turn out for you? Advice/Comments/Complaints?

Thanks in advanced!

As long as your GPA doesn't have a substantial boost after moving (makes adcoms think you couldn't compete) and your MCAT verifies your GPA, you'll be fine. Just be sure to discuss your reasons for switching and family situation in your PS and you'll be fine. Best of luck and PM with any questions!

 

[Hindiana_Jones]

I go to UIC, a third tier school in the U of I system. We had Northwestern medical students come and speak, and I asked them how going to UIC would affect my application. They said it obviously helps if you go to a good school with a better rep. but it doesn't hurt you if you don't go to a really good school. One of the Med students that came and spoke actually went to UIC, and they got into Northwestern. The rest were from Northwestern, Norte Dame, and Emmory. It can't hurt you, and what you do in school matter more than what school you went to.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Your undergraduate institution is another factor that is considered with the rest of your application. Of course, graduating from Stanford or Princeton is going to help a little bit. But graduating from Montana State isn't gonna hurt you if you have top scores and activities. It's all about the impression that you present the admissions committee. For the all stars, it doesn't matter what school they went to because everything else puts them over the top.

 

[Centinel]

It's kind of illegal for a school to trash your application based on your school. Especially if most of the students at you school do poorly, it probally means that your school does'nt spoon feed their student like most private schools. If you surpass your peers you will stand out. If you have a 29+ MCAT it would be very unconstitutional for a school to disregard your application bases on the school you graduated from.

LSU-Tech: Virtually nothing that private, non-government-affiliated institutions can do will generally be regarded as 'unconstitutional'; when an individual breaks the law, it's merely illegal. Unconstitutional is a term that is typically reserved for things that the federal government itself has no authority to do.

MD1Day: Not having gained admittance into medical school, nor having gone through what you are going through, I still think that you will be fine. If you achieve academic excellence, and perform well on your MCAT, I do not think that the perceived weakness of your undergraduate institution will hurt you.

 

[ramblinwreckie]

I'm not to ashamed to say that my undergrad school (Georgia State University) sucks too. The school is not hard to get into and is filled with people who dont really want to be there. In an issue of our school newspaper they had an interesting statistic. "Given 6 years to graduate, 68% of the degree-seeking students at Georgia State will not gradutate" That pretty much sums up the school. This post relieved a few of my worries though.

it could be a lot worse. you could go to Tech.

 

[riceman04]

It's kind of illegal for a school to trash your application based on your school. Especially if most of the students at you school do poorly, it probally means that your school does'nt spoon feed their student like most private schools. If you surpass your peers you will stand out. If you have a 29+ MCAT it would be very unconstitutional for a school to disregard your application bases on the school you graduated from.

Dude I agree with most of what you say. But I adamantly disagree with your opinion about students at all private schools being spoonfed. I can only speak for my school based on the experience that me and my classmates/friends had while we were students. If we were spoonfed many of us would boast higher gpa's than we have today. Hell, my school tried to assasinate my gpa!

And for the record: I have plenty of friends who transfered from UT to my alma mater and are amazed at how much more difficult the classes they are having to retake are at Rice (classes that Rice would not accept as transfer credit).

 

[blue2000]

It's kind of illegal for a school to trash your application based on your school. Especially if most of the students at you school do poorly, it probally means that your school does'nt spoon feed their student like most private schools. If you surpass your peers you will stand out. If you have a 29+ MCAT it would be very unconstitutional for a school to disregard your application bases on the school you graduated from.

"Illegal" isn't really the issue. Except for race and other EOE protected categories, a medical school can trash your application for any reason, including undergraduate institution. I would say most medical schools don't, because it's stupid of them to rule out fantastic candidates merely b/c of where they went to school. But throwing around "illegal" and "unconstitutional" grossly misrepresents the rules of the application process.

 

[ascrimmins]

Spoon fed my butt.

If only I had been spoonfed p-chem. I might still recall the particle in a box, particle on a string, particle on my rear-end, whatever it is. Sigh...

 

[Chrissy]

I transferred from Villanova U to the University of Penn and regret it. My humble opinion is the school will not make a difference as long a you do well. An A grom a state school is better than a B from an Ivy. Just do well and be well rounded. Best of luck.

Spoon fed my butt.

If only I had been spoonfed p-chem. I might still recall the particle in a box, particle on a string, particle on my rear-end, whatever it is. Sigh...

 

[Supadupafly]

I agree with the previous post. An 'A' from a state school is better than a 'B' from an Ivy.

Direct quote from the admissions director at Jefferson, "We don't care what undergrad school a student goes to as long as they get a good undergrad education." I take that to mean as long as you didn't buy your degree on Ebay, don't worry about it.

I think this goes for most places. MCAT scores are MASSIVELY more important than grades, school, ect. Unless your grades are truly rotten, good MCAT scores, ECs, and a good PS will be what gets you in at most places.

Good Luck,

The Fly

 

[Chrissy]

Hi there,
I know this isn't the most apporpriate way to go about this, but how do you like jefferson? I really want to go back to Philly for med school and i was just wondering what your experience has been like or if you couls kindly offer some advice. Thanks!

I agree with the previous post. An 'A' from a state school is better than a 'B' from an Ivy.

Direct quote from the admissions director at Jefferson, "We don't care what undergrad school a student goes to as long as they get a good undergrad education." I take that to mean as long as you didn't buy your degree on Ebay, don't worry about it.

I think this goes for most places. MCAT scores are MASSIVELY more important than grades, school, ect. Unless your grades are truly rotten, good MCAT scores, ECs, and a good PS will be what gets you in at most places.

Good Luck,

The Fly

 

[nycjhu22]

i disagree with what supadupafly said about mcat weighted much more than gpa.
gpa is definitely more important because it reflects your academic activities and trends throughout 4 years of college instead of an 8-hr exam taken on one day that can be offset by many unexpected factors. i went to JHU for undergrad and that was the first thing the preprof advisors informed us.

as for undergrad schools - i don't think transferring out of a private school because of financial aide issues matter - especially if they ask about it during your interview you can explain the situation. also, most schools have secondaries where they ask you explain anything about your transcription or academic record you wish. if you really feel the need, you can definitely express it then.

and yea, i do agree with some of those who posted that going to some more competitive schools may screw you over. hopkins had loads of uncaring professors who cared only about their own research and teaching the class was just for their pension. someone from my hs went to the city college in ny and pulled off straight A's and got into yeshiva (and CUNY is not even a state school - it's a city college).

 

[fullefect1]

It's kind of illegal for a school to trash your application based on your school. Especially if most of the students at you school do poorly, it probally means that your school does'nt spoon feed their student like most private schools. If you surpass your peers you will stand out. If you have a 29+ MCAT it would be very unconstitutional for a school to disregard your application bases on the school you graduated from.

Hahaha... schools don't have to answer to anyone.. This is mostly for elite schools (top 15), but they like to except from within the top undergrads. There are always few exceptions, but for the most part the top med schools are filled with top undergraduate school graduates. If someone from a unknown school has a 3.95 GPA, and a 39 MCAT score and all the other EC's that make the app good they might get into 2-3 top schools. However, someone from an IVY undergrad has the same stats would probably get into almost every schools they apply to (providing that have interview skills). This happens all the time, and it is very disapointing on my half because I also go to a state school. Screw the top schools anyways.. I would rather go to my state Medical School.

To the original poster though.... don't worry about it.. just continue to get good grades. You will have a decreased chance of getting accepted into the top schools though.

 

[Chrissy]

yes that is true. I graduated from an Ivy and i knew kids who got all A's and high 30's and they were choosing between hopkins and yale med....i also knew kids who had borderline numbers who still got into several schools just not top schools...then there are those kids like me who crumbled under the competition and wish i went to a less prestigious school. There's no clear cut answer...you need to do well at any school you go to to get into med school. The hard part is figuring out what school that is before you go! If you can get 3.5 plus at an Ivy then def go....if you're not so sure but know you want to be a doctor then go somewhere you can excel...that's what ultimately matters.

it's sometimes better to be a big fish in a small pond...

Hahaha... schools don't have to answer to anyone.. This is mostly for elite schools (top 15), but they like to except from within the top undergrads. There are always few exceptions, but for the most part the top med schools are filled with top undergraduate school graduates. If someone from a unknown school has a 3.95 GPA, and a 39 MCAT score and all the other EC's that make the app good they might get into 2-3 top schools. However, someone from an IVY undergrad has the same stats would probably get into almost every schools they apply to (providing that have interview skills). This happens all the time, and it is very disapointing on my half because I also go to a state school. Screw the top schools anyways.. I would rather go to my state Medical School.

To the original poster though.... don't worry about it.. just continue to get good grades. You will have a decreased chance of getting accepted into the top schools though.

 

[BlinkyCat]

Dude I agree with most of what you say. But I adamantly disagree with your opinion about students at all private schools being spoonfed. I can only speak for my school based on the experience that me and my classmates/friends had while we were students. If we were spoonfed many of us would boast higher gpa's than we have today. Hell, my school tried to assasinate my gpa!

And for the record: I have plenty of friends who transfered from UT to my alma mater and are amazed at how much more difficult the classes they are having to retake are at Rice (classes that Rice would not accept as transfer credit).

I agree! Seriously, if med schools don't consider the difference, then they're plain fools. People at your less prestigious school are doing crappy is not because it's hard and they're not "spoon fed". It's because they're not too bright. Ok they're stupid. I'm sorry....I just have to say it. To get A's in my prereqs at Penn, I had to fight to the death. The caliber of students and the just the curve alone is difficult. I was like hell no. Took organic chem at UT Austin, and I seriously partied like crazy, literally a lump on a log in class when I did go, and A's just fell on my lap. It was significantly easier. The curve was nice. The exam was like...here you go spend three hours even though it takes 15 minutes. I know a couple of people from my school who had similar experiences.

Don't worry Lindsay (i hope i got the right). You're obviously smart. There are smart people in state schools and I'm sure med schools can pick out the smart ones from the not so smart ones. I seriously think if you have two identical candidate and one went to hahhhvad. The second guy will get in and the first guy would be slightly disadvantaged. It wont' hurt you if you're an overall strong candidate though I believe. I have met one or two very smart people at UT and they can easily surpass a handful of people at Penn in med school.

 

[Chrissy]

hahaha how ironic! I went to penn too and had a very hard time! looks like we had similar experiences and have very similar opinions. best of luck!

I agree! Seriously, if med schools don't consider the difference, then they're plain fools. People at your less prestigious school are doing crappy is not because it's hard and they're not "spoon fed". It's because they're not too bright. Ok they're stupid. I'm sorry....I just have to say it. To get A's in my prereqs at Penn, I had to fight to the death. The caliber of students and the just the curve alone is difficult. I was like hell no. Took organic chem at UT Austin, and I seriously partied like crazy, literally a lump on a log in class when I did go, and A's just fell on my lap. It was significantly easier. The curve was nice. The exam was like...here you go spend three hours even though it takes 15 minutes. I know a couple of people from my school who had similar experiences.

Don't worry Lindsay (i hope i got the right). You're obviously smart. There are smart people in state schools and I'm sure med schools can pick out the smart ones from the not so smart ones. I seriously think if you have two identical candidate and one went to hahhhvad. The second guy will get in and the first guy would be slightly disadvantaged. It wont' hurt you if you're an overall strong candidate though I believe. I have met one or two very smart people at UT and they can easily surpass a handful of people at Penn in med school.

 

[BlinkyCat]

hahaha how ironic! I went to penn too and had a very hard time! looks like we had similar experiences and have very similar opinions. best of luck!

hehehe good luck to you too!

 

[LSU-Tech]

I agree! Seriously, if med schools don't consider the difference, then they're plain fools. People at your less prestigious school are doing crappy is not because it's hard and they're not "spoon fed". It's because they're not too bright. Ok they're stupid. I'm sorry....I just have to say it. To get A's in my prereqs at Penn, I had to fight to the death. The caliber of students and the just the curve alone is difficult. I was like hell no. Took organic chem at UT Austin, and I seriously partied like crazy, literally a lump on a log in class when I did go, and A's just fell on my lap. It was significantly easier. The curve was nice. The exam was like...here you go spend three hours even though it takes 15 minutes. I know a couple of people from my school who had similar experiences.QUOTE]


Stupid???

I go to state school becuase of a little something called tuition, and LSU is not easy. I am close to the top of the class in my major and struggle everyday. When I was in high school I mad a 34 on the ACT and am trying to bring up my MCAT score from a 31 to at least a 33. I guess I'm too stupid to get in anywhere though.

I know that whatever I get out of life will be because of what I have done for myself, not because I have some private school to back me up. Private schools are all about money. Don't think for one second that quality of education at private schools are superior to state, some are and are not, just as some state school are good and some are not. As a matter of fact, I believe LSU (Baton Rouge) was voted as one of America's 100 favorite colleges and it also has two schools of medicine.

So just remember that you not any better than the rest of us the next time you hit your rich parents up for money. Hey, maybe they can pay, bribe or black male someone so that you can get into med school. I prefer to let my grades and scores speak for me, not my money or some private school.

Oh yeah; I almost forgot, are football team is better than yours!

 

[BlinkyCat]

I agree! Seriously, if med schools don't consider the difference, then they're plain fools. People at your less prestigious school are doing crappy is not because it's hard and they're not "spoon fed". It's because they're not too bright. Ok they're stupid. I'm sorry....I just have to say it. To get A's in my prereqs at Penn, I had to fight to the death. The caliber of students and the just the curve alone is difficult. I was like hell no. Took organic chem at UT Austin, and I seriously partied like crazy, literally a lump on a log in class when I did go, and A's just fell on my lap. It was significantly easier. The curve was nice. The exam was like...here you go spend three hours even though it takes 15 minutes. I know a couple of people from my school who had similar experiences.QUOTE]


Stupid???

I go to state school becuase of a little something called tuition, and LSU is not easy. I am close to the top of the class in my major and struggle everyday. When I was in high school I mad a 34 on the ACT and am trying to bring up my MCAT score from a 31 to at least a 33. I guess I'm too stupid to get in anywhere though.

I know that whatever I get out of life will be because of what I have done for myself, not because I have some private school to back me up. Private schools are all about money. Don't think for one second that quality of education at private schools are superior to state, some are and are not, just as some state school are good and some are not. As a matter of fact, I believe LSU (Baton Rouge) was voted as one of America's 100 favorite colleges and it also has two schools of medicine.

So just remember that you not any better than the rest of us the next time yo hit your rich parents up for money. Hey, maybe they can pay, bribe or black male someone so that you can get into med school. I prefer to let my grades and scores speak for me, not my money or some private school.

Oh yeah I almost forgot, are football team is better than yours!

"black male someone"? Ok, no matter how cheap state school was for you, it was definitely too expensive if they didn't at least teach you how to spell. Secondly, I am poor and live well below the poverty line. I got into a good private school based entirely on my own merits and paid for it with my own minimum wage job, so please do not denigrate my parents, my hard work, or my undergraduate institution. My parents are poor and barely have a place to live, so there is no hitting up my parents for money over here. I was this close in giving up my dream of becoming a doctor, so that I can capitalize on my business degree from penn and help give them a better life.

Unless you had the opportunity to attend both private institution (ie. Harvard, Yale, etc.) AND state school, you really have no basis for comparision other than stereotypes or worse, self-comforting denial. The quality of education differ markedly and the caliber of the professors far exceeds those in state schools. There is no debate there. Whether or not it was worth the expensive tuition and the GPA hit, that is entirely subjective. Are there extremely smart people who attend state school for in-state tuition? Sure! Would they become great physicians or even better than those coming out of private institution? Of course! My point is, med schools are going to have to pick out those people from those who are struggling and barely making it in state-schools, which is not that hard if you're one of the smart ones who had the choice of going to the top private institutions but CHOOSE to remain in-state for the purpose of saving money. I find it absolutely ludicrous that anybody would think there is no difference in the quality of education between State-U and Harvard. No offense, if I have a family member whom I love who needed surgery, I would not take my chances with Dr. State-U who struggled in his premed classes. I rather go with the one dimensional tool with 40+ MCAT from Harvard who knows what he's doing.

 

[Centinel]

I agree! Seriously, if med schools don't consider the difference, then they're plain fools. People at your less prestigious school are doing crappy is not because it's hard and they're not "spoon fed". It's because they're not too bright. Ok they're stupid. I'm sorry....I just have to say it. To get A's in my prereqs at Penn, I had to fight to the death. The caliber of students and the just the curve alone is difficult. I was like hell no. Took organic chem at UT Austin, and I seriously partied like crazy, literally a lump on a log in class when I did go, and A's just fell on my lap. It was significantly easier. The curve was nice. The exam was like...here you go spend three hours even though it takes 15 minutes. I know a couple of people from my school who had similar experiences.QUOTE]


Stupid???

I go to state school becuase of a little something called tuition, and LSU is not easy. I am close to the top of the class in my major and struggle everyday. When I was in high school I mad a 34 on the ACT and am trying to bring up my MCAT score from a 31 to at least a 33. I guess I'm too stupid to get in anywhere though.

I know that whatever I get out of life will be because of what I have done for myself, not because I have some private school to back me up. Private schools are all about money. Don't think for one second that quality of education at private schools are superior to state, some are and are not, just as some state school are good and some are not. As a matter of fact, I believe LSU (Baton Rouge) was voted as one of America's 100 favorite colleges and it also has two schools of medicine.

So just remember that you not any better than the rest of us the next time you hit your rich parents up for money. Hey, maybe they can pay, bribe or black male someone so that you can get into med school. I prefer to let my grades and scores speak for me, not my money or some private school.

Oh yeah; I almost forgot, are football team is better than yours!

Propagating misconceptions about upper-tiered private schools doesn't do anyone any good.

1) The best of the best schools (H/Y/P) meet 100% of demonstrated financial need. People whose parents earn 6-figure salaries are still on 50% gift aid. Families earning under $45,000 per year pay absolutely nothing. You do yourself a disservice by assuming that the graduates from the elite schools came from a rich background, because you will make incorrect assumptions about these students.

2) Because lower-tiered schools tend to have less competitive admissions, the student body as a whole tends to be less competitive. Thus, the top students more obviously rise to the top.

3) I agree that the state/private demarcation is not useful. Instead, upper-tier/lower-tier should be used to differentiate between schoos.

 

[Hoooba]

Once again, a helpless SDN thread gets turned into State school vs. Ivy-league fight. Are pre-meds as insecure as i think ?

 

[ChuckRock]

This thread has turned dumb

 

[Centinel]

Once again, a helpless SDN thread gets turned into State school vs. Ivy-league fight. Are pre-meds as insecure as i think ?

I don't think that the OP was asking about state-vs-Ivy, and I don't think that the discussion has devolved into state-vs-Ivy (except one post). There are many upper-tiered state schools that beat out Ivies in the 'rankings'. I think that it makes sense that these upper-tiered schools will have a greater acceptance rate into medical school than schools on the lower tiers. Just because many of these schools are private does not mean that highly-ranked state schools (Berkeley comes to mind) won't enjoy the same benefits.

 

[mynamewastaken]

I'll assume that whole post was a sardonic, reverse psychology example of how students at Ivy's really are more intelligent? That was one of the most amusing things I've ever heard. It really really was. where to start...

"I go to state school becuase of a little something called tuition, and LSU is not easy. "

1) Tuition at Ivy League schools is expensive. Tuition at seceond and third tier private schools is also just as expensive. Original post has absolutely nothing to do with money. It is perfectly reasonable and acceptable to go to school where you can afford. Most people do.

2) No one ever said it was easy. It's all relative. Is it easIER than a TOP 10 school. YES. Sorry, it just is. annnd YES, I have taken classes at both an Ivy and a state school and the two can't be compared; they really can't. Give it a try if you are so upset and prove us wrong.

"I am close to the top of the class in my major and struggle everyday."

1) Congratulations. You will without a doubt get into medical school, whereas many students at LSU and many students at each Ivy will not. So what's the problem.

2) Because YOU struggle at LSU has nothing to do with how "hard it is". Again, it's all relative. I'm sure there are students at LSU who think it's the easiest school in the US as I'm sure there are students who try and fail. Same at every school. Even Ivy's.

"When I was in high school I mad a 34 on the ACT and am trying to bring up my MCAT score from a 31 to at least a 33. I guess I'm too stupid to get in anywhere though."

1) Again congratulations. Your credentials have little to do with this discussion. Your ACT is above average. Your MCAT score is above average. You will most likely get into medical school. What does any of it have to do with LSU being comparable to an Ivy in difficulty?

2) What was your SAT score while you're sharing? An ACT of 34 is on par with an accepted student at an Ivy. Soooo, no you don't sound "too stupid to get in anywhere."......still an irrelevant statement.

This is where it got very humorous for me...

"I know that whatever I get out of life will be because of what I have done for myself, not because I have some private school to back me up."

1) I don't know what you mean by saying private schools "back us up".....do you mean advising, and career services, and student health, and clubs, and sports????? What the hell goes on at LSU?.....Seriously, I think what you are trying to say, and please correct me if I assume incorrectly, that after going to a private school (not EVEN an Ivy), things are just thrown in a grads lap? I graduated from an Ivy.....I had to work less hard to get things after? You are confusing that with the overall prowess a graduate from an Ivy league school posseses. We get good jobs and people are impressed because only the very best high school students get into these schools...on the whole, we are bright, we are motivated, we have resources around us because other great minds are attracted to these schools....would it be politically correct to pretend that we're all equal...we're not....irrefutable fact. Average credentials at LSU are unparalled with those at Yale. There are exceptions and that's why you will get into med school. You are bright and you have earned a spot. Doesn't make us Ivy kids any less intelligent and it doesn't mean we don't work hard.

"Don't think for one second that quality of education at private schools are superior to state, some are and are not, just as some state school are good and some are not. As a matter of fact, I believe LSU (Baton Rouge) was voted as one of America's 100 favorite colleges and it also has two schools of medicine. "

1) On average, an education from an Ivy is much better quality. I took physics from a man who won a Nobel Prize in 1997. Ivy league schools attract the best minds to do research and to teach. While teaching ability is subjective, the quality of mind is not. The faculty at Ivy's are the best in their field.

2) Top 100 college? A state school will never be ranked above, or even close to an Ivy....why not you think?

"So just remember that you not any better than the rest of us the next time you hit your rich parents up for money."

1) "You not any better" ?

2) My parents are not close to being rich. If you think every student who attends an Ivy coasts through then you further prove my point. That is extraordinarily ignorant.

3) If I am blessed to make a good living someday, I will no doubt happily provide my children with a quality, 4 year, private education.

"Hey, maybe they can pay, bribe or black male someone so that you can get into med school. I prefer to let my grades and scores speak for me, not my money or some private school."

1) blackmail. One word. Wrong spelling. Us private college and Ivy grads will do just fine. Medical schools will be impressed with the same of our school and realize it was competitive and difficult....and we won't wreak bitterness.

2) You're scores and grades will speak for you. Unfortunately, so might your attitude and personality.

The bottom line here is you digressed way off course and failed to understand the original comment. You are not less worthy to anyone because you attended a state school and not a private school. You are also not more worthy because you believe that going to a private school is a gift of the privileged and you have therefore been oppressed in some way by attending a state public school. If you do well anywhere you will get into medical school. That includes everyone.

Now, the issue at hand is the level of average difficulty of an Ivy league school versus a large state school. I'm gonna leave this one there because it's not worth the fight. Ivy's are what they are. So we'll be fine. If you want to resolve your baseless ignorance and bitterness, please, i implore you to come up North and try a class at an Ivy.

I agree! Seriously, if med schools don't consider the difference, then they're plain fools. People at your less prestigious school are doing crappy is not because it's hard and they're not "spoon fed". It's because they're not too bright. Ok they're stupid. I'm sorry....I just have to say it. To get A's in my prereqs at Penn, I had to fight to the death. The caliber of students and the just the curve alone is difficult. I was like hell no. Took organic chem at UT Austin, and I seriously partied like crazy, literally a lump on a log in class when I did go, and A's just fell on my lap. It was significantly easier. The curve was nice. The exam was like...here you go spend three hours even though it takes 15 minutes. I know a couple of people from my school who had similar experiences.QUOTE]


Stupid???

I go to state school becuase of a little something called tuition, and LSU is not easy. I am close to the top of the class in my major and struggle everyday. When I was in high school I mad a 34 on the ACT and am trying to bring up my MCAT score from a 31 to at least a 33. I guess I'm too stupid to get in anywhere though.

I know that whatever I get out of life will be because of what I have done for myself, not because I have some private school to back me up. Private schools are all about money. Don't think for one second that quality of education at private schools are superior to state, some are and are not, just as some state school are good and some are not. As a matter of fact, I believe LSU (Baton Rouge) was voted as one of America's 100 favorite colleges and it also has two schools of medicine.

So just remember that you not any better than the rest of us the next time you hit your rich parents up for money. Hey, maybe they can pay, bribe or black male someone so that you can get into med school. I prefer to let my grades and scores speak for me, not my money or some private school.

Oh yeah; I almost forgot, are football team is better than yours!

 

[andres211]

What "rankings" are you talking about? I can't think of any public schools that beat private schools in any of the well-respected rankings. Very few people will disagree that any list of "top" schools would be dominated by Ivy League institutions and a few other exceptionals schools like MIT, Standford, etc.

P.S. Go Quakers!!!

I don't think that the OP was asking about state-vs-Ivy, and I don't think that the discussion has devolved into state-vs-Ivy (except one post). There are many upper-tiered state schools that beat out Ivies in the 'rankings'. I think that it makes sense that these upper-tiered schools will have a greater acceptance rate into medical school than schools on the lower tiers. Just because many of these schools are private does not mean that highly-ranked state schools (Berkeley comes to mind) won't enjoy the same benefits.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

The ivy vs. state school debate is pretty pointless. When it comes down to it, all pre-meds take the same prereq's in any given college. I find it hard to believe that someone would claim that going to a tough prestigious school caused their GPA to drop, and that they would have a 4.0 if they went to a state school. You learn the same facts and take the same MCAT.

Sure some med schools like to mention that some of their students graduated from the ivys to attract high quality students. But, take a look at Stanford's class profile for example. http://med.stanford.edu/md/admissions/class_profiles.html

I see Arizona State, CUNY, Illinois State, Cal State Long Beach, Cleveland State, SUNY Binghamton, San Jose State, Oregon State, etc. Out of a class of 87, the majority of the class went to an "average" school. And Stanford's one of the most selective schools in the country!

In the end, I'd say your undergrad school is one of the lowest deciding factors, after your recs, EC's, GPA, MCAT. It might help you get into your State Med School or lower tiered privates, but it won't for most top-tier schools.

 

[hnbui]

The ivy vs. state school debate is pretty pointless. When it comes down to it, all pre-meds take the same prereq's in any given college. I find it hard to believe that someone would claim that going to a tough prestigious school caused their GPA to drop, and that they would have a 4.0 if they went to a state school. You learn the same facts and take the same MCAT.

Think about it. A more prestigous and more rigorous school tends to have more competitive and more diligent students. While at a nontop tier state school, excluding berkeley, umich, unc, etc..,which accepts many students despite their lack of diligence and background knowledge, there will be less competition for an A and a big curve.

You can't compare a 3.5 from cornell to a 3.5 fron LSU. Are you kidding me?

 

[hnbui]

Stupid???

I go to state school becuase of a little something called tuition, and LSU is not easy. I am close to the top of the class in my major and struggle everyday. When I was in high school I mad a 34 on the ACT and am trying to bring up my MCAT score from a 31 to at least a 33. I guess I'm too stupid to get in anywhere though.

Congrats on the ACT. Might i ask why a person whom i am guessing had great highschool stats didn't apply to a higher tier school? With such high states surely you would have qualified for merit aid, and possibly even need-based grants.
I'm from Louisiana and i would not choose LSU over a top ranked school. Again if tution was a problem for you, why did you apply to colleges that promise to meet 100% of demostrated need; or even colleges that give out large amounts of merit aid. Fishy in need.

I know that whatever I get out of life will be because of what I have done for myself, not because I have some private school to back me up. Private schools are all about money. Don't think for one second that quality of education at private schools are superior to state, some are and are not, just as some state school are good and some are not. As a matter of fact, I believe LSU (Baton Rouge) was voted as one of America's 100 favorite colleges and it also has two schools of medicine.

It's also on the top 10 list for party schools, but that's besides the point. When i graduate the grade i earn will be a reflection of my diligence at cornell, not because i went to a private university. In fact, i do think the education you receive at the top tier private universities are much better than your common state school; this again is excluding exceptions such as berkeley, ucla, unc, umich, and so forth. How can you possibly compare the education you recieve at LSU, which mind you have a less competitive student body, to the education you receive at a school like cornell, which has many well known professors.

So just remember that you not any better than the rest of us the next time you hit your rich parents up for money. Hey, maybe they can pay, bribe or black male someone so that you can get into med school. I prefer to let my grades and scores speak for me, not my money or some private school.

Umm... I'm not rich. Seems like you think you're better than us top tier students because you think we had a free easy ride. That's not the case.

Oh yeah; I almost forgot, are football team is better than yours!

yeah football is what academics is about.

 

[Kazema]

I'm not gonna do any State or Ivy bashing or anything, but just add a little perspective based on my experiences.

It's a very, very humbling experience on the first couple days of class at a top school (or top program at a good school) and realize that everyone in the room is smarter than you are. I remember during orientation at CMU they herded all the CS students into Wean 7500 (big CS auditorium-style classroom) and did a little thing where they asked who scored over a 1400 on the SAT, and who scored over 1450, 1500, 1550, and who scored 1600. When they got to 1600, like half the class was still holding their hands up. The guy up front was like, "Look around. None of you are the smartest person here. There's always going to be someone better than you, and they're going to be in this classroom, sitting right next to you. In fact, most of the people in this room are probably smarter than you."

Completely destroyed my ego in one fell swoop. Took me four and half years to get even part of it back.

 

[blue2000]

I'm not gonna do any State or Ivy bashing or anything, but just add a little perspective based on my experiences.

It's a very, very humbling experience on the first couple days of class at a top school (or top program at a good school) and realize that everyone in the room is smarter than you are. I remember during orientation at CMU they herded all the CS students into Wean 7500 (big CS auditorium-style classroom) and did a little thing where they asked who scored over a 1400 on the SAT, and who scored over 1450, 1500, 1550, and who scored 1600. When they got to 1600, like half the class was still holding their hands up. The guy up front was like, "Look around. None of you are the smartest person here. There's always going to be someone better than you, and they're going to be in this classroom, sitting right next to you. In fact, most of the people in this room are probably smarter than you."

Completely destroyed my ego in one fell swoop. Took me four and half years to get even part of it back.

This is a very wise post. Also, everyone's ripping on each other about state versus ivy and what'll get you into med school. Guess what happens once you get there?

You will all work your butts off day after day after day, and literally, in a matter of weeks, these petty differences between state schools and private schools will fall away, because there will be smart people who work themselves to the bone, smart people who are lazy, slower people who work like dogs to keep up. You'll share your notes, you feel inadequate, you'll go out for beers. These people are the only people who will know what you are going through. Med school is not college. It's a process that changes you and matures you. You will not be the smartest person in your class. In many ways, no one is the smartest person in their class. If you choose to perpetuate stereotypes and hold onto narrowminded attitudes about other people's backgrounds, you will lose study partners, drinking buddies, and shoulders to cry on.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Think about it. A more prestigous and more rigorous school tends to have more competitive and more diligent students. While at a nontop tier state school, excluding berkeley, umich, unc, etc..,which accepts many students despite their lack of diligence and background knowledge, there will be less competition for an A and a big curve.

You can't compare a 3.5 from cornell to a 3.5 fron LSU. Are you kidding me?

Then how do you explain all the people from state schools getting into Stanford?

I'm not even going to bring up the grade inflation argument here.

 

[Centinel]

I find it hard to believe that someone would claim that going to a tough prestigious school caused their GPA to drop

Angus, this is demonstrably wrong. I'm not saying this to pick a fight with you or to be purposelessly contentious. I'm saying it because I don't want people to be misled. The fact of the matter is that H/Y/P have 95% acceptance rates into med school, vs. 30% nat'l average. Additionally, the H/Y/P Cumulative GPA for accepted candidates is 3.6 vs 3.9 na'tl average.

To me, these numbers say that yes, undergraduate institution does indeed matter. If going to these prestigious schools did not cause students' GPAs to be uncommonly low upon acceptance to medical school, why are these students getting in with such low GPAs?

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Angus, this is demonstrably wrong. I'm not saying this to pick a fight with you or to be purposelessly contentious. I'm saying it because I don't want people to be misled. The fact of the matter is that H/Y/P have 95% acceptance rates into med school, vs. 30% nat'l average. Additionally, the H/Y/P Cumulative GPA for accepted candidates is 3.6 vs 3.9 na'tl average.

To me, these numbers say that yes, undergraduate institution does indeed matter. If going to these prestigious schools did not cause students' GPAs to be uncommonly low upon acceptance to medical school, why are these students getting in with such low GPAs?

I agree with you to a certain extent. Yes, ivy's as a whole have a higher caliber of students. At some med schools, yes graduating from H/Y/P definitely helps you, but I think it's less of an issue at the most selective ones, i.e. HMS/JHU/Penn. I think there's a tendency to believe that an ivy degree is worth more than others, when in actuality it's only one of many factors. I just wanted to make it clear that at most med schools, both private and public universities are well represented.

 

[Majayiduke09]

Think about it. A more prestigous and more rigorous school tends to have more competitive and more diligent students. While at a nontop tier state school, excluding berkeley, umich, unc, etc..,which accepts many students despite their lack of diligence and background knowledge, there will be less competition for an A and a big curve.

You can't compare a 3.5 from cornell to a 3.5 fron LSU. Are you kidding me?

Then how do you explain all the people from state schools getting into Stanford?

I'm not even going to bring up the grade inflation argument here.

TheMightyAngus: If you think Cornell has grade inflation, you are horribly mistaken. However, yes I agree with you that exceptional students from state universities can attend prestigious private universities, when they attain an excellent GPA and score very well on standardized tests--LSAT, GMAT, MCAT.

 

[g3pro]

TheMightyAngus: If you think Cornell has grade inflation, you are horribly mistaken. However, yes I agree with you that exceptional students from state universities can attend prestigious private universities, when they attain an excellent GPA and score very well on standardized tests--LSAT, GMAT, MCAT.

What you said is absolutely idiotic. Same stats = same chances of being admitted. Going to state schools doesn't decrease your chances at all.

 

[hnbui]

Then how do you explain all the people from state schools getting into Stanford?

I'm not even going to bring up the grade inflation argument here.

i Can't. Did i ever state that there's no smart diligent individuals in state schools? No. I said for the most part the general student body tend to be less studious and less competitive as compared to the top tier schools. Is that not true? Does that rule out any possiblity that some state school students will attend a top notch medical school? No, of course not. Does your incapacibility to read the full post and your readiness to make rash statements obscured what i stated? Yes.


Also are you really telling me that there's grade inflation at cornell?

 

[TheMightyAngus]

i Can't. Did i ever state that there's no smart diligent individuals in state schools? No. I said for the most part the general student body tend to be less studious and less competitive as compared to the top tier schools. Is that not true? Does that rule out any possiblity that some state school students will attend a top notch medical school? No, of course not. Does your incapacibility to read the full post and your readiness to make rash statements obscured what i stated? Yes.


Also are you really telling me that there's grade inflation at cornell?

I'd say there's grade inflation at any school that boasts an average GPA above 3.0. Cornell is not an exception, as seen here:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10436

 

[xanadont]

I'll assume that whole post was a sardonic, reverse psychology example of how students at Ivy's really are more intelligent? That was one of the most amusing things I've ever heard. It really really was. where to start...

"I go to state school becuase of a little something called tuition, and LSU is not easy. "

1) Tuition at Ivy League schools is expensive. Tuition at seceond and third tier private schools is also just as expensive. Original post has absolutely nothing to do with money. It is perfectly reasonable and acceptable to go to school where you can afford. Most people do.

2) No one ever said it was easy. It's all relative. Is it easIER than a TOP 10 school. YES. Sorry, it just is. annnd YES, I have taken classes at both an Ivy and a state school and the two can't be compared; they really can't. Give it a try if you are so upset and prove us wrong.

"I am close to the top of the class in my major and struggle everyday."

1) Congratulations. You will without a doubt get into medical school, whereas many students at LSU and many students at each Ivy will not. So what's the problem.

2) Because YOU struggle at LSU has nothing to do with how "hard it is". Again, it's all relative. I'm sure there are students at LSU who think it's the easiest school in the US as I'm sure there are students who try and fail. Same at every school. Even Ivy's.

"When I was in high school I mad a 34 on the ACT and am trying to bring up my MCAT score from a 31 to at least a 33. I guess I'm too stupid to get in anywhere though."

1) Again congratulations. Your credentials have little to do with this discussion. Your ACT is above average. Your MCAT score is above average. You will most likely get into medical school. What does any of it have to do with LSU being comparable to an Ivy in difficulty?

2) What was your SAT score while you're sharing? An ACT of 34 is on par with an accepted student at an Ivy. Soooo, no you don't sound "too stupid to get in anywhere."......still an irrelevant statement.

This is where it got very humorous for me...

"I know that whatever I get out of life will be because of what I have done for myself, not because I have some private school to back me up."

1) I don't know what you mean by saying private schools "back us up".....do you mean advising, and career services, and student health, and clubs, and sports????? What the hell goes on at LSU?.....Seriously, I think what you are trying to say, and please correct me if I assume incorrectly, that after going to a private school (not EVEN an Ivy), things are just thrown in a grads lap? I graduated from an Ivy.....I had to work less hard to get things after? You are confusing that with the overall prowess a graduate from an Ivy league school posseses. We get good jobs and people are impressed because only the very best high school students get into these schools...on the whole, we are bright, we are motivated, we have resources around us because other great minds are attracted to these schools....would it be politically correct to pretend that we're all equal...we're not....irrefutable fact. Average credentials at LSU are unparalled with those at Yale. There are exceptions and that's why you will get into med school. You are bright and you have earned a spot. Doesn't make us Ivy kids any less intelligent and it doesn't mean we don't work hard.

"Don't think for one second that quality of education at private schools are superior to state, some are and are not, just as some state school are good and some are not. As a matter of fact, I believe LSU (Baton Rouge) was voted as one of America's 100 favorite colleges and it also has two schools of medicine. "

1) On average, an education from an Ivy is much better quality. I took physics from a man who won a Nobel Prize in 1997. Ivy league schools attract the best minds to do research and to teach. While teaching ability is subjective, the quality of mind is not. The faculty at Ivy's are the best in their field.

2) Top 100 college? A state school will never be ranked above, or even close to an Ivy....why not you think?

"So just remember that you not any better than the rest of us the next time you hit your rich parents up for money."

1) "You not any better" ?

2) My parents are not close to being rich. If you think every student who attends an Ivy coasts through then you further prove my point. That is extraordinarily ignorant.

3) If I am blessed to make a good living someday, I will no doubt happily provide my children with a quality, 4 year, private education.

"Hey, maybe they can pay, bribe or black male someone so that you can get into med school. I prefer to let my grades and scores speak for me, not my money or some private school."

1) blackmail. One word. Wrong spelling. Us private college and Ivy grads will do just fine. Medical schools will be impressed with the same of our school and realize it was competitive and difficult....and we won't wreak bitterness.

2) You're scores and grades will speak for you. Unfortunately, so might your attitude and personality.

The bottom line here is you digressed way off course and failed to understand the original comment. You are not less worthy to anyone because you attended a state school and not a private school. You are also not more worthy because you believe that going to a private school is a gift of the privileged and you have therefore been oppressed in some way by attending a state public school. If you do well anywhere you will get into medical school. That includes everyone.

Now, the issue at hand is the level of average difficulty of an Ivy league school versus a large state school. I'm gonna leave this one there because it's not worth the fight. Ivy's are what they are. So we'll be fine. If you want to resolve your baseless ignorance and bitterness, please, i implore you to come up North and try a class at an Ivy.









Amen.

 

[xanadont]

I'd say there's grade inflation at any school that boasts an average GPA above 3.0. Cornell is not an exception, as seen here:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10436

I think the whole notion of grade inflation is overblown. B's and B+'s are handed out a little more commonly at top schools (contributing to that 3.0+ avg.) but A's can be ridiculously hard to get because you have such a density of bright minds around you. That being said, you can then imagine that a 3.8 is easier to achieve at UC-Riverside than Princeton. Med. school admissions boards recognize this - hence, the lower avg. GPA for entering students from ivy schools vs. the national avg.

 

[Karim]

To the OP:

To tell you the truth, I'm in a similar position. I go to the University of Las Vegas, Nevada, a state school. The acceptance rate is in the eighties (percent-wise). I was seriously contemplating leaving my family and going to UNR (University of Reno; they have a medical school and a "better" science program...essentially, better rep). However, I found that, when talking to the pre-health advisor, that UNLV has sent people off med-schools such as Mayo, Hopkins, Washington, and Stanford. It doesn't even have half the rep as an Ivy League school, yet it sends students off to Ivy League calibur medical schools. In fact, I checked the schools which Stanford represents and guess what: I found UNLV on the list but not UNR. Go figure.

I was at a loss to think that with all the hard work that I wouldn't get into a competitive or top-tier school, but it turned out to be the opposite. Incidentally, I am HAPPY to know that I didn't go to an Ivy and have my parents dish out all that money (true, there is financial aid, but with my circumstances, I would never get a full ride). Now, my parents can use that money on what matters more--medical school. So if finances are a problem as well as distance, by all means--go to a school near home. As long as you're a strong candidate, the school you go to should not make a difference. Good luck!

Karim