The future of pharmacy

[nafcillin]

That's all we are hiring. Never used to be that way

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[Its Z]

I will take a PGY 2 in a heartbeat..tho I would put them through at least 6 months of staffing duties...then slowly transition them into managerial duties.. there are so many activities in the pharmacy... 10% is in distribution...and the 90% most pharmacists never get to experience and/or perform. PGY1 & 2 touch upon it in their training.

 

[wucool33]

I agree with the "pharmacists need to be creative" to find their own niche. I see nontraditional roles increasing in the years to come. I've known many pharmacists who had the luxury of creating their own startups as consultants, CME specialists, remote informatics, etc. Soon, the clinical knowledge acquired in pharmacy school will make sense.

I will take a PGY 2 in a heartbeat..tho I would put them through at least 6 months of staffing duties...then slowly transition them into managerial duties.. there are so many activities in the pharmacy... 10% is in distribution...and the 90% most pharmacists never get to experience and/or perform. PGY1 & 2 touch upon it in their training.

Wait... Did u just say pharmacist? I thought u even refer to urself as a druggist

 

[xiphoid2010]

I will take a PGY 2 in a heartbeat..tho I would put them through at least 6 months of staffing duties...then slowly transition them into managerial duties.. there are so many activities in the pharmacy... 10% is in distribution...and the 90% most pharmacists never get to experience and/or perform. PGY1 & 2 touch upon it in their training.

You touched on a good point. One of the complaints I hear from other DOPs are they have newly residency trained pharmacist that comes in thinking they are GOD and go straight to clinical stuff. Well, experienced DOPs make them do staffing in the pharmacy for several months. What good is a clinical pharmacist that doesn't know the formulary or policies? Of course some get upset, one actually quit.

 

[BMBiology]

Here's another prediction: undergraduates will a good GPA will apply to medical schools while undergraduates with < 3.0 GPA will continue to get accepted to a pharmacy school of their choice. That's the future of pharmacy.

 

[confettiflyer]

Here's another prediction: undergraduates will a good GPA will apply to medical schools while undergraduates with < 3.0 GPA will continue to get accepted to a pharmacy school of their choice. That's the future of pharmacy.

I am pretty sure this is the present/past, undergrad gunners mostly go for medical school or high level finance.

 

[awval999]

I am pretty sure this is the present/past, undergrad gunners mostly go for medical school or high level finance.

Not exactly true. I don't mean to brag or what not but I could have got into med school.
I chose pharmacy because of the lifestyle and I wasn't going to waste my 20's in a residency. There are others like me.

 

[BMBiology]

I am pretty sure this is the present/past, undergrad gunners mostly go for medical school or high level finance.

Not true. The average GPA at my school is > 3.6

 

[grumps]

GPA mean anything anymore? Academics have been so watered down.

Last year I was studying for a MJPE exam for another state. I came across this computer-adaptive testing. What a joke? No wonder kids are getting 1600's on the SAT. Oh wait, don't the same people that administer the test have a hand in the test prep business. Mmmmmh.

 

[smercer]

GPA mean anything anymore? Academics have been so watered down.

Last year I was studying for a MJPE exam for another state. I came across this computer-adaptive testing. What a joke? No wonder kids are getting 1600's on the SAT. Oh wait, don't the same people that administer the test have a hand in the test prep business. Mmmmmh.

You do realize the new max for the SAT is 2400...

 

[kwakster928]

You touched on a good point. One of the complaints I hear from other DOPs are they have newly residency trained pharmacist that comes in thinking they are GOD and go straight to clinical stuff. Well, experienced DOPs make them do staffing in the pharmacy for several months. What good is a clinical pharmacist that doesn't know the formulary or policies? Of course some get upset, one actually quit.

Chiming in here because I agree. As I stated in the other thread,

I don't believe in 100% clinical pharmacist. They shouldn't exist. Unless we can bill for clinical services, which we have yet to figure it out.

I had a mind boggling experience where a clinical pharmacist post two year residency did not know what a PCA was.

I tell my students and interns all the time. You are a pharmacist first then clinician.

 

[grumps]

No, I didn't realize that the new SAT is 2400,I'm a crusty ole fart. What did they do add a new section?

 

[smercer]

No, I didn't realize that the new SAT is 2400,I'm a crusty ole fart. What did they do add a new section?

yea 3x 800pt parts... Verbal-math-Crit thinking

 

[genesis09]

No, I didn't realize that the new SAT is 2400,I'm a crusty ole fart. What did they do add a new section?

The added a new writing section in 2005

 

[universalcynic]

Not exactly true. I don't mean to brag or what not but I could have got into med school.
I chose pharmacy because of the lifestyle and I wasn't going to waste my 20's in a residency. There are others like me.

Yep, this is me too. I want a career I feel genuinely interested in, but I do not need my career to be the focal point of my life. 40 hrs/week is plenty enough for me, and the ridiculous intensity of all the pre-meds I met in undergrad scared me away from that track.

 

[Silvermist]

Yep, this is me too. I want a career I feel genuinely interested in, but I do not need my career to be the focal point of my life. 40 hrs/week is plenty enough for me, and the ridiculous intensity of all the pre-meds I met in undergrad scared me away from that track.

Ditto. My undergrad GPA was a 4.0, and I was a biology and chemistry double major, so imma go out on a limb and assume I would have gotten into med school somewhere But I also am a little older, have a family with young kids, and wanted a life, and I didn't want to be pressured into rotations on the other side of my state, or a multi-year residency (PGY2 is OK, but I kind of drew the line there ...).

Tl;dr, I ruled out the other medical professions for various reasons. Pharmacy fit me, and that's why I chose it.

 

[owlegrad]

There are many people here that fancy that they could've gotten into med school so there must've been something about pharmacy that drove us to it.

 

[confettiflyer]

yea 3x 800pt parts... Verbal-math-Crit thinking

You can thank the University of California for that...haha. We threatened to drop SAT and the College Board caved in to our demands.

 

[gotgame740]

Not exactly true. I don't mean to brag or what not but I could have got into med school.
I chose pharmacy because of the lifestyle and I wasn't going to waste my 20's in a residency. There are others like me.

I am one of them

 

[npage148]

YES!!!

There are too many pharmacists out there in retail that just let things slide or let DUR's slide. Maybe they don't understand the significance of it and maybe it can help improve their priorities and time management while working.

Yeah, go ahead and try to "fix" the diltiazem/Statin DUR on a patient that's been on it for years. Or the DUR of tramadol + ssri. You'll get laughed at by the patient, the doctor and your coworkers. You can't talk about pharmacists work while your some intern with no responsibility other than passing your classes

 

[GodsSon2011]

Yeah, go ahead and try to "fix" the diltiazem/Statin DUR on a patient that's been on it for years. Or the DUR of tramadol + ssri. You'll get laughed at by the patient, the doctor and your coworkers. You can't talk about pharmacists work while your some intern with no responsibility other than passing your classes

 

[iamaninja]

The biggest issues with the field right now are the amount of new schools popping up, leading to less qualified students, dropping wages, worsening working conditions and the big chains gaining more influence and power within the industry.

I think our best bet for slowing down the advent of schools would be state boards of pharmacy. I know ACPE accredits the schools but those schools have to have their students get intern licenses through the state boards of pharmacy. I know people have said ACPE can't deny accreditation or risk getting sued, but each state board is mostly controlled by pharmacists and holds hearings that pharmacists can voice issues. There has to be laws that can be passed in states to deter schools popping up like crazy and profiting off of nieve under-qualified students and hurting the profession directly in that boards state. Pass a law limiting intern licenses, pass a law putting a freeze on preceptors, there has to be methods to slow this process down making it difficult/impossible for the schools to have the students get practical training. I know California for example has a bunch of blatant measures trying to limit pharmacists being able to gain licensure in the state and these schools popping up are the biggest issue with the profession going to ****.

 

[confettiflyer]

Pass a law limiting intern licenses, pass a law putting a freeze on preceptors, there has to be methods to slow this process down making it difficult/impossible for the schools to have the students get practical training. I know California for example has a bunch of blatant measures trying to limit pharmacists being able to gain licensure in the state and these schools popping up are the biggest issue with the profession going to ****.

Nope, can't do it, same general concepts apply to state boards of pharmacy in issuing licenses.

California BOP is just plain slow, I don't think there's any purpose behind it except for the fact that they're understaffed and slow.

Besides, reducing the amount of practical training of your upcoming pharmacists is just shooting your profession in the foot. Even if you delay giving out intern licenses for 3 years, students will have them in time for P-4 rotations and will earn the # of hours needed for licensure. Now you have a bunch of licensed pharmacists with no practical experience. Wonderful.

Heart's in the right place, but this is not a very well thought out idea.

 

[iamaninja]

You can't get licensed without intern hours. Its just one way the boards can stiffle new schools before they open. I'm sure there are a bunch of other laws that can be passed within each individual state that can stop schools from going forward. Students won't go if they won't be able to get licensure after graduation, and scaring off students will stop schools from opening. I'm not suggesting screwing over students already in schools, my suggestion is to try and stop degree mills from opening before they take their students. There has to be some pharmacy organization out there that can stop the schools from popping up 5 at a time.

And California board is not just slow, they have the most difficult and unique licensing exam in the country, they also do not accept transfer of intern hours from any other board of pharmacy, thats just ridiculous. To have individual signatures from each preceptor and not accept other boards like they have no credibility is pretty clear. They also do not allow you to sit for the CPJE without a US issued piece of ID, again this is to deter pharmacists, so any foreign graduates it becomes very difficult to get licensure.

 

[confettiflyer]

You can't get licensed without intern hours. Its just one way the boards can stiffle new schools before they open. I'm sure there are a bunch of other laws that can be passed within each individual state that can stop schools from going forward. Students won't go if they won't be able to get licensure after graduation, and scaring off students will stop schools from opening. I'm not suggesting screwing over students already in schools, my suggestion is to try and stop degree mills from opening before they take their students. There has to be some pharmacy organization out there that can stop the schools from popping up 5 at a time.

You can't pass such a law without screwing everyone over (a targeted law would be thrown out as being too narrow), and a simple lawsuit that the BOP is overstepping its legal mandate by attempting to regulate the market would grind all that to a stop.

And California board is not just slow, they have the most difficult and unique licensing exam in the country, they also do not accept transfer of intern hours from any other board of pharmacy, thats just ridiculous. To have individual signatures from each preceptor and not accept other boards like they have no credibility is pretty clear.

Pssh, CPJE is freaking easy, my out of state school has a 100% pass rate. You read RxPrep + Weismann and that's it. And you're right, they don't take other BOP hours, they made the process easier by accepting the signature of my preceptors and supervisors who are also out of state.

Seriously I just had them sign the form and mailed it in with my license packet. WAY easier than having dealing with some bureaucrat in Pennsylvania and go through TWO slow boards of pharmacy.

(as an aside, if you think CA is slow...my colleagues in PA were without RPh licenses WAY LONGER than me in CA)

They also do not allow you to sit for the CPJE without a US issued piece of ID, again this is to deter pharmacists, so any foreign graduates it becomes very difficult to get licensure.

Fine, you are technically correct. But the NAPLEX isn't so forgiving either, you need either a United States or Canadian identification card (page 8 of NAPLEX bulletin).

So really it's only annoying to Canadians who want to practice in California. I don't really call them "foreign graduates" but I guess you are technically correct.

 

[iamaninja]

You can't pass such a law without screwing everyone over (a targeted law would be thrown out as being too narrow), and a simple lawsuit that the BOP is overstepping its legal mandate by attempting to regulate the market would grind all that to a stop.

I'm not legal expert obviously but I'd imagine there to be some actions that can be taken to deter these schools

Pssh, CPJE is freaking easy, my out of state school has a 100% pass rate. You read RxPrep + Weismann and that's it. And you're right, they don't take other BOP hours, they made the process easier by accepting the signature of my preceptors and supervisors who are also out of state.

Seriously I just had them sign the form and mailed it in with my license packet. WAY easier than having dealing with some bureaucrat in Pennsylvania and go through TWO slow boards of pharmacy.

Thats fine CPJE may be easy, but relatively its still the most unique and difficult law test in the US which does deter pharmhacists from practicing in the state. And its clear that the preceptor affadivit is put in place to slow down and deter out of state pharmacists, if they wanted to make it easier and more streamlined to transfer to the state they could easily accept both out of state board approval or preceptor signatures.

(as an aside, if you think CA is slow...my colleagues in PA were without RPh licenses WAY LONGER than me in CA)



Fine, you are technically correct. But the NAPLEX isn't so forgiving either, you need either a United States or Canadian identification card (page 8 of NAPLEX bulletin).

So really it's only annoying to Canadians who want to practice in California. I don't really call them "foreign graduates" but I guess you are technically correct.

.

 

[jrf794]

Edit

 

[BMBiology]

I am predicting within the next 9 months, you will see a flood of posts complaining that there's no job (yes, even more than now).

 

[BelowTheMean]

Not exactly true. I don't mean to brag or what not but I could have got into med school.
I chose pharmacy because of the lifestyle and I wasn't going to waste my 20's in a residency. There are others like me.

Majority in my class couldve gone to med school if they wanted, but most of us liked the 30k sign on bonus, free car, free whatever at the time (yes kids, once upon a time in pharmacy retails GAVE us stuff and bribed us to work for them). In the good old days of few pharmacy schools you were considered a "gunner" in undergrad for going med, dental OR pharmacy. Now pharmacy admission is a joke. Just my 2cents.

 

[pezdispenser]

but most of us liked the 30k sign on bonus, free car, free whatever at the time (yes kids, once upon a time in pharmacy retails GAVE us stuff and bribed us to work for them).

Yep, and I'll add that once you take away the 40k sign on bonus, the guaranteed $120k salary for everyone straight out of school, all-you-can-eat $90/hr overtime, etc. then pharmacy (at least retail) is a pretty crappy job. There is no incentive to do pharmacy, go $200k+ in debt, have maybe a 75% chance of getting a job, probably in a BFE town, could be part-time or 32 hrs floating...

I'm just waiting for the glut of naive pre-pharmers to work their way through the system over the next 4+ years and realize this. There has to be a big lag time because pharmacy school is a big commitment and you can't really just drop out even when the job situation changes so dramatically, after investing the time and money. Maybe then, we will see a drop in the number of new grads, the supply and demand balance will turn, and the cycle will repeat.

 

[BMBiology]

Not likely as long as the government continues to provide student loans just about anyone even at 6.8% and 7.9% interest rate

 

[rph3664]

You touched on a good point. One of the complaints I hear from other DOPs are they have newly residency trained pharmacist that comes in thinking they are GOD and go straight to clinical stuff. Well, experienced DOPs make them do staffing in the pharmacy for several months. What good is a clinical pharmacist that doesn't know the formulary or policies? Of course some get upset, one actually quit.

It's nothing new. I had classmates who came out of school 20 years ago all starry-eyed and prepared to save the world, and were in for a big surprise when reality hit.

About 10 years ago, my hospital hired a newly graduated Pharm.D. who had the cojones to tell our oldest pharmacist, who graduated in 1966, that he didn't know what he was talking about because he didn't have a Pharm.D. Mr. 1966 was normally a really laid-back guy, but he totally lit into the new grad and said, "I may not have a Pharm.D., but I was practicing for almost 15 years before you were even born." And you know that "My tech is a bully" thread where I mention that some people are untouchable and immune from discipline? Bingo. He was.

And Nafcillin, after I left that hospital, they too were hiring only PGYs, and the people who told me about it that across the board, they were some of the most inept people they'd ever encountered. Experience had nothing to do with it; they just had no concept of how a hospital pharmacy really operated.

I, BTW, became a pharmacist because I wanted to be a pharmacist, not a doctor.

 

[Digsbe]

Chiming in here because I agree. As I stated in the other thread,

I don't believe in 100% clinical pharmacist. They shouldn't exist. Unless we can bill for clinical services, which we have yet to figure it out.

I had a mind boggling experience where a clinical pharmacist post two year residency did not know what a PCA was.

I tell my students and interns all the time. You are a pharmacist first then clinician.

Part of being a pharmacist is being a clinician. I don't entirely agree with the label "clinical" pharmacist. Pharmacists that work in retail still make clinical judgments (although usually not extremely important/complicated ones), they still make recommendations and provide clinical consultations.

 

[Farcus]

I am pretty sure this is the present/past, undergrad gunners mostly go for medical school or high level finance.

I think it is more that more undergrad gunner go to med school and some undergrad gunner go to pharmacy school. My class admission for 2013 was 3.5 avg i think mine was 3.82 from a state univ. There are definitely people in my school that could of gotten in med just didn't decided to spend all that time in school. YOLO

 

[pharmasaur]

I think it is more that more undergrad gunner go to med school and some undergrad gunner go to pharmacy school. My class admission for 2013 was 3.5 avg i think mine was 3.82 from a state univ. There are definitely people in my school that could of gotten in med just didn't decided to spend all that time in school. YOLO

I agree. UCSD pharm schol avg gpa is like 3.7-3.8...these ppls can go to med school if they want. keep in mind pharm school in CA has way more science/math prereqs than med school too. At USC incoming pharm class gpa of my year is 3.6....what was it of USC Keck Medical school? 3.6 as well!!!!!! a lot of pharmacy students though don't want to take the MCAT..it's just a scary thing that ppl want to avoid. a lot of ppl in my class didnt wanna deal with MCAT

 

[Advate]

I am really impressed with some of my classmates. I am pretty sure they could have done anything. Many of us chose pharmacy because it offers a balance between work and play. Not sure about work anymore though.

 

[grumps]

Could some of you whippersnappers help an ole grumps out and explain what a "gunner" is? The intermenets offer conflicting definitions. Thanks in advance.

 

[Sparda29]

I am pretty sure this is the present/past, undergrad gunners mostly go for medical school or high level finance.

Finance huh? It doesn't seem like much work at all. Go to a meeting, blah blah blah, analyze Excel reports, talk about them, oh hey here's a trip to Wall Street, now go on a trip to Saudi and convince those oil sheiks to invest with us. That's literally what one of my finance friends does and his only degree was Finance from UC Irvine. Now he's a top level VP at Deutsche Bank at the age of 26.

 

[hye345]

Could some of you whippersnappers help an ole grumps out and explain what a "gunner" is? The intermenets offer conflicting definitions. Thanks in advance.

A gunner can be described as an over-achiever, with a type A personality, who may or may not screw you over to get ahead

 

[Angela1234]

Hey BMBbiology, I was about to predict the same thing. Except I predict more jobless posts after May when a ton of new graduates graduate without work.

 

[Chriskahn]

Finance huh? It doesn't seem like much work at all. Go to a meeting, blah blah blah, analyze Excel reports, talk about them, oh hey here's a trip to Wall Street, now go on a trip to Saudi and convince those oil sheiks to invest with us. That's literally what one of my finance friends does and his only degree was Finance from UC Irvine. Now he's a top level VP at Deutsche Bank at the age of 26.

Is your friend Barney Stinson ?

 

[Sparda29]

Is your friend Barney Stinson ?

Essentially the Pakistani-Arab Barney Stinson. The amount of chicks and type of chicks he's been with is just legen wait for it dary.

 

[BenJammin]

You can't get licensed without intern hours. Its just one way the boards can stiffle new schools before they open. I'm sure there are a bunch of other laws that can be passed within each individual state that can stop schools from going forward. Students won't go if they won't be able to get licensure after graduation, and scaring off students will stop schools from opening. I'm not suggesting screwing over students already in schools, my suggestion is to try and stop degree mills from opening before they take their students. There has to be some pharmacy organization out there that can stop the schools from popping up 5 at a time.

And California board is not just slow, they have the most difficult and unique licensing exam in the country, they also do not accept transfer of intern hours from any other board of pharmacy, thats just ridiculous. To have individual signatures from each preceptor and not accept other boards like they have no credibility is pretty clear. They also do not allow you to sit for the CPJE without a US issued piece of ID, again this is to deter pharmacists, so any foreign graduates it becomes very difficult to get licensure.

You make it sound like other states don't require birth certificates, social security cards, etc to get licensed lol

 

[anewmanx]

I find it.... interesting, to say the least, reading the opinions and posts here. I guess as a world traveler my perspective has changed quite a bit. Is it really so unthinkable for new graduates to accept a much lower paying job to get their foot in the door? How about getting an SBA loan to start or purchase an existing pharmacy; at least a 50% share in an existing pharmacy with an owner close to retirement? Is it so unfathomable that you might offer to work for 10-20k less a year to get your first job?

Is no one willing to serve in the Military? I'm aware there are limited spots for pharmacists, but there are some spots. Is no one willing to work for the Defense Intelligence Agency at a much lower pay as a Chemistry and Pharmaceutical expert? Is it that unfathomable to take a **** job to pay off your student loans and build a resume.

With the ever aging and dying society we have will there not consistently be a need for pharmacist care in horrible long term care facilities?

In Costa Rica, where I live now, a Pharmacist only makes around $2000 a month. They live like kings on that amount. In Europe they average around half what a pharmacist makes in the US and pay about twice as much in taxes. They are happy with that.

The system will balance itself; people will stop applying to pharmacy school in such droves when the jobs continue to dry up. The US Healthcare system will remain broken and prohibitively expensive, and the tough will survive. The graduates who cannot find jobs will migrate into research, medical school, and pharmacy ownership. Eventually the imbalance will be cured. Those who are truly dedicated to this profession will strive on and find good jobs. The same thing happened with the tech bubble and droves of computer programmers, system admins, graphic designers, website designers, database administrators, etc...

I honestly think people worry too much. Perhaps it is that they complain too much. I'm not sure which of the two that it is.

 

[BMBiology]

Work for less? That is alright

Work for less with 200-250 k in student loan debt? I am not sure

Work for less with 200-250 k in student loan debt and also want to start a family and buy a house? Oh hell no.

Education is now a business. It used to be difficult to get accepted but once you have graduated there is a job waiting for you. Not anymore. Now it is easy to get accepted but it is difficult to land a job. When you have borrowed that much in student loan with 6.8% interest rate, you can't afford not to work. You can't afford to make just 60 k a year.

 

[anewmanx]

Work per diem and attend school half time. Take some cheap community college language courses or something. No payments on student loans while attending at least half time.

That is one solid way to avoid paying on student loans until you land the right job.

Also, you may qualify for significant student loan forgiveness if you sign up for the military.

Also, the interest payments on $250,000 of student loans for one year come out to $17,000. If you can't get by paying that making $80k and raising a family, then you have serious money handling issues. I support three kids(two through child support) and a wife on $48k and I still travel to the US every 3-6 months to see family.

 

[BMBiology]

I agree. Reduce cost is the key. Go to an affordable school. Live cheap and work.

A lot of students have no financial sense. They just want to live today and put their head in the sand until they graduate. That is when they see their student loan statement and they can't believe how much they owe.

 

[anewmanx]

I agree. Reduce cost is the key. Go to an affordable school. Live cheap and work.

A lot of students have no financial senses. They just want to live today and put their head in the sand until they graduate. That is when they see their student loan statement and they can't believe how much they owe.

+1 good post.

I personally learned how to manage money after piling myself into over 320k of debt when my son was born premature and had 15 surgeries; 10 of which were on his vp shunt (brain implant for draining CS fluid.) I knocked it down to 50k by liquidating real estate in the divorce, and then had to survive for years on cash only.

Now I drive a used car that I know how to repair; it is paid off. I use cash for everything I possibly can. I pay reasonable rent and eat at home as much as possible. Yet, we still live very very well. We have a nice life because we are not slaves to a mortgage payment or car payment. Credit cards don't loom over our heads. We paid the last one off before our child was born. We PREPAID our hospital bill (7k.)

What a marvel concept right? We have opulent DEBT in the United States. NOT opulent wealth.

 

[BMBiology]

Also, the interest payments on $250,000 of student loans for one year come out to $17,000. If you can't get by paying that making $80k and raising a family, then you have serious money handling issues. I support three kids(two through child support) and a wife on $48k and I still travel to the US every 3-6 months to see family.

That depends on where you live right? I live in a big city and I am also required to pay state income tax. So if I were making just 80 k a year, my take home salary would be around 60 k. That doesn't include health and dental insurance, 401 k.

The interest alone is already 17 k so if I am only paying 17 k a year, then I am not touching the principle so that is unrealistic. I would need to pay at least 25 k a year just so I can reduce the principle over a reasonable period of time.

So $60k - $25 k = $35 k a year or $2920 a month. Even if I live in a decent neighborhood, it would cost me at least $1500 a month. Therefore, I have $1400 a month to pay for utilities, internet, phone, car, gas, food, clothes etc. Is it still possible? Of course. But is this the life you want after 4 years of undergraduate and another 4 years of pharmacy school? How are you going to save for a house? How are you going to raise a family when you have that much student loan debt?

 

[anewmanx]

That depends on where you live right? I live in a big city and I am also required to pay state income tax. So if I were making just 80 k a year, my take home salary would be around 60 k. That doesn't include health and dental insurance, 401 k.

The interest alone is already 17 k so if I am only paying 17 k a year, then I am not touching the principle so that is unrealistic. I would need to pay at least 25 k a year just so I can reduce the principle over a reasonable period of time.

So $60k - $25 k = $35 k a year or $2920 a month. Even if I live in a decent neighborhood, it would cost me at least $1500 a month. Therefore, I have $1400 a month to pay for utilities, internet, phone, car, gas, food, clothes etc. Is it still possible? Of course. But is this the life you want after 4 years of undergraduate and another 4 years of pharmacy school? How are you going to save for a house? How are you going to raise a family when you have that much student loan debt?

Well, I think this is where we all come to see the elephant in the room. This is the point where someone has to be willing to spend 5-10 years in a part of the country they don't care for to lower the cost of living. If I was living anywhere where I had to pay $1500 a month, $18000 a year in rent (wasted money.) I would move. There is not question about it in my mind. I would move in a heartbeat or join up with the armed forces so I would have free housing and student loan forgiveness. Even if I had to join as a regular officer and not as a pharmacist due to lack of available spots.

18k in rent and 17k in interest is 35k wasted every year to make others rich. If I could cut at least half of that (the rent) I would. I would never work that hard to make someone else that rich.

http://www.military.com/money/perso...-loan-forgiveness-and-discharge-programs.html

It's always an option; so long as a person didn't take too many private loans out.