The Investment Thread (stocks, bonds, real estate, retirement, just not gold)

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http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ja...et-the-indexes-work-2014-11-03?dist=afterbell

I really need to follow my own advice. I pulled $50k out and the peak and spread $20k in purchases in the trough but I misjudged the intensity of the rebound. Upside is I limit myself to 10% of portfolio in doing crazy crap like this. But still, now I have $30k cash that missed the recent uptick.

The other silver lining is if I buy now, I'll basically be even with what I sold for... less the transaction fees (TD is like $25).

Was about to post that article this morning but you beat me to it. Bogle saves me a lot of money. You can buy now, or wait and buy later when the index is probably higher at the end of the year lol.

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I am in a similar situation. I cash out my taxable investments and ESPP after 1 year for the long-term capital gains tax rate. I don't really know what to do with the money either. I could:

- hang on to it for a while in Ally, waiting for an opportunity to reinvest it
- pay down my mortgage, which is what I do most of the time. Remaining balance is below $100k now :)
- spend it, but I'm a fairly frugal person and am already content with what I have right now--house, car, etc

Yeah pay off the mortgage or buy another house that you don't really need. It is nice to be in that position though.
 
What % of your income do you put into ESPP?
 
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$22,500 which is the max under our plan. 10% discount. Buy any time. Hold minimum 90 days.

How long do you hold on to it? Do you hold it long enough to qualify for long term capital gain tax?
 
How long do you hold on to it? Do you hold it long enough to qualify for long term capital gain tax?
Depends. If the stock price goes up a lot, I usually wait at least 1 year to get the long-term capital gains tax rate, because 15% is a lot better than the regular 28% income tax to make the wait worthwhile. But if the stock price is flat, then most of the gain is just the 10% discount part, which gets taxed at regular income tax rates anyway, so it is not necessary to wait the 1 year.
 
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Looks like the republicans will take the senate. I hope they work out tax reform with Obama.

Expect another debt ceiling fight this coming March.
 
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Looks like the republicans will take the senate. I hope they work out tax reform with Obama.

Expect another debt ceiling fight this coming March.

Pffft. That **** doesn't matter. Until labor gets paid more, nothing positive will happen. And it won't happen any time soon. Keep investing. The capital owning class will continue to make all of the wealth until there is a damned revolution or an actual left of center politician takes the white house with both houses being strongly leftist.
----
In other news...look at our old friend gold.

lmfao...
 
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^^ tell that to my bank account. Those who are not burden with student loan debt and those who invested early are doing pretty well.

The bottom line - there are always opportunities in a good and in a bad economy regardless if the republican or democrat is in power.
 
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My brokerage/retirement accounts are singing, wahoo.
 
The funny thing is that I am not exactly spending more just because I have more money in my bank account. Makes me wonder if people are using their gains just to pay down their debt? How are companies keeping on making more and more profit?
 
The funny thing is that I am not exactly spending more just because I have more money in my bank account. Makes me wonder if people are using their gains just to pay down their debt? How are companies keeping on making more and more profit?
I think pre-2008, the economy was built on people who would just borrow and spend. That obviously was not sustainable so they got slaughtered and can't get credit as easily anymore. The people doing well now are the ones who did not borrow excessively and who save and invest. But I think companies are going through a similar thing. Right now, I think they can only increase profit by reducing expenses, or buying back shares to increase the stock price and EPS.
 
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I think pre-2008, the economy was built on people who would just borrow and spend. That obviously was not sustainable so they got slaughtered and can't get credit as easily anymore. The people doing well now are the ones who did not borrow excessively and who save and invest. But I think companies are going through a similar thing. Right now, I think they can only increase profit by reducing expenses, or buying back shares to increase the stock price and EPS.

That is also what I don't get.

Cut expenses = increase profit = increase stock price

Stock buy back = increase stock price

What is increasing revenue? If salary is not increasing more than inflation, where is the money coming from?
I am not talking about luxury companies. I am talking about companies that target the middle class. So again, where is the money coming from?
 
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That is also what I don't get.

Cut expenses = increase profit = increase stock price

Stock buy back = increase stock price

What is increasing revenue? If salary is not increasing more than inflation, where is the money coming from?
I am not talking about luxury companies. I am talking about companies that target the middle class. So again, where is the money coming from?

sp-500-geographic-revenue.png

In a new report titled “2020 Vision: Long Live the Expansion,” Mr. Parker makes the case for why a recession is “far from imminent.” In that scenario, stocks still have much more room to run.

“Our best guess is that an S&P 500 peak of near 3000 is possible should the U.S. expansion prove to have five or more years left to it,” Mr. Parker said. The assumption is based on earnings growth of about 6% a year and an S&P 500 price/earnings ratio of about 17.

The S&P 500 swung between small gains and losses on Tuesday, climbing to an all-time intraday high of 2006.15. The index is up more than 8% this year and has surged nearly 200% from the March 2009 bottom.

Mr. Parker’s latest call comes as he has already been one of the more bullish strategists on the Street. He currently sees the S&P 500 climbing to 2050 by the middle of next year.

Here are the bullet points from Mr. Parker supporting Morgan Stanley’s long-term view on markets and the economy:
The world economy is not in sync. Major regional economies are at different points along the growth cycle. In general, DM is leading while EM is lagging.

  • Volatility in the US continues to trend lower, which can extend the life of expansions.
  • Deleveraging in the US is ongoing, albeit largely complete, and balance sheet priorities have shifted.
  • Interest payments on debt burdens are ultra-low, and household debt dynamics suggest there exists a sizable cushion protecting consumers in a rising interest rate environment.
  • Capital spending and inventories do not look stretched. Corporate management hubris and other corporate metrics of overheating remain muted.
  • Several broad economic indicators in the US have only just reached “normal” expansionary levels and are far from looking unsustainable.
A combination of low volatility, low interest rates and the lack of excessive capital spending or corporate valuations gives Morgan Stanley reason to believe that the current recovery still has room to run.

“Business cycles don’t die of old age, they die of overheating,” Mr. Parker said. “Debt dynamics, particularly in the U.S., paint the picture of a more prudent household sector and well-managed corporate sector, both of which remain far from the heights of leverage typically associated with risks to business cycle expansions….The current expansion is more than five years old, and with little evidence of global synchronicity, there are no signs as yet that the global economy is overheating.”
 
Year to date: I am up 12.2%. No bonds. All stocks.
 
Year to date: I am up 12.2%. No bonds. All stocks.

12.2%? That's exactly right on the YTD for the S&P 500 Admiral Shares on Vanguard. Awesome.

Up 14.2% YTD for my Vanguard account, but my actual YTD is probably closer to 12% when my brokerage account + Roth funds are factored in (my int'l funds aren't as robust).

Also 100% stocks. Except I'm still sitting on a bunch of cash from my earlier cash out :hungover:
 
What do people think about international stock? I have international index funds making up 27-37% of my Target Date funds, but they have horribly underperformed the US stock market by about 15% in the past year alone. Should I move more towards US stock or just leave it?

My total YTD is still about 10%, salvaged from the ESPP even with WAG taking a dump a few months ago.
 
What do people think about international stock? I have international index funds making up 27-37% of my Target Date funds, but they have horribly underperformed the US stock market by about 15% in the past year alone. Should I move more towards US stock or just leave it?

My total YTD is still about 10%, salvaged from the ESPP even with WAG taking a dump a few months ago.

While S&P has about 45% income from outside the US, and you should be fine if you just stick to US. Stocks - check my pic above, I still think it's nice to have a little extra exposure outside of US. I personally have 14% international, 10% emerging, and 10% small cap international to diversify my holdings to reduce volatility. Stick to your asset allocation/your target date allocation, they don't put that % there for no reason. If you start selling when it is down, that's market timing and you just fall to buy high, sell low. Underperformance can persist for 5 years+ easily. http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Bible/USForeign.htm
 
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Questions for the peanut gallery:

1) What age are you looking to retire/semi-retire?
2) What is your target monthly income (specify if this is in current dollars or future dollars)?
3) What is your target 401(k)/403(b)/457(b)/IRA/Roth IRA aggregate balance by the age you listed in question 1?
4) Are you on track given your current savings rate & your own projected market performance (what benchmark/rate are you using)?

Doing some due diligence to see if I'm indeed over saving, just wanted to know what endpoint you all are looking at.
 
What do people think about international stock?

I have around 25% international stocks. Mostly in Japan and Europe....some in emerging market (China). I still don't think international stocks are as good as American stocks. So maybe I will decrease it to just 20%.

Europe: can't get their crap together. The Germans can't agree with the French.
China: lack of transparency....making up numbers?
Japan: another lost decade?
 
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I have around 25% international stocks. Mostly in Japan and Europe....some in emerging market (China). I still don't think international stocks are as good as American stocks. So maybe I will decrease it to just 20%.

Europe: can't get their crap together. The Germans can't agree with the French.
China: lack of transparency....making up numbers?
Japan: another lost decade?

What do you think about other emerging markets? India/etc...? Demographics favor them IMO, old farts in Europe and the U.S. are just getting older.

I haven't really diverged from basic int'l index funds (emerging & total/all world).
 
Questions for the peanut gallery:

1) What age are you looking to retire/semi-retire?
2) What is your target monthly income (specify if this is in current dollars or future dollars)?
3) What is your target 401(k)/403(b)/457(b)/IRA/Roth IRA aggregate balance by the age you listed in question 1?
4) Are you on track given your current savings rate & your own projected market performance (what benchmark/rate are you using)?

Doing some due diligence to see if I'm indeed over saving, just wanted to know what endpoint you all are looking at.
Would you mind sharing yours?
 
Questions for the peanut gallery:

1) What age are you looking to retire/semi-retire?
2) What is your target monthly income (specify if this is in current dollars or future dollars)?
3) What is your target 401(k)/403(b)/457(b)/IRA/Roth IRA aggregate balance by the age you listed in question 1?
4) Are you on track given your current savings rate & your own projected market performance (what benchmark/rate are you using)?

Doing some due diligence to see if I'm indeed over saving, just wanted to know what endpoint you all are looking at.

1) 55-65. Typically use 60 for planning purposes.
2) $100K/yr at (current dollar)
3) $2.5 mil (current dollar) including non-tax advantaged investments
4) yes if based on 7% and 5% average annual return pre/post retirement

But there are many variables, hence the probable retirement range of 55-65:
Market performance: annual variation in return +/-1%. To reach $2.5 mil, 6% takes 10 yrs longer than 8%.
Retired income %: now saving 30% + higher taxes. So $100K/yr retired is high, $80k/yr can retire 3 yrs sooner.
Social security: used $0 in calculation, but allows retirement 3-4 years earlier if it survives in whole or parts
Inheritance: used $0 in calculation, but knowing my frugal and successful parents, it probably will be significant.
Part-time work: I want to consult/part time after retirement to stay sharp. But can't predict health. So assuming $0.
Age of death: assuming living to 90. Using 95 will push back retirement date by 1-2 yrs.

The bottom line: if everything lines up favorably, it is possible to retire 50-55. Baring complete economic stagnation for next 20+ years (improbable), should be able to retire by 65 with pessimistic estimates.
 
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What do you think about other emerging markets? India/etc...? Demographics favor them IMO, old farts in Europe and the U.S. are just getting older.

I haven't really diverged from basic int'l index funds (emerging & total/all world).

Yes, the emerging markets have the number (population) but I see American companies outcompeting domestic companies.....companies like Apple, Tesla are going to crush the competition. The smartest people are still here...in the good old U.S. of A. Besides how innovative can you be if the government can just put you in jail for doing things they don't like?
 
Questions for the peanut gallery:

1) What age are you looking to retire/semi-retire?
2) What is your target monthly income (specify if this is in current dollars or future dollars)?
3) What is your target 401(k)/403(b)/457(b)/IRA/Roth IRA aggregate balance by the age you listed in question 1?
4) Are you on track given your current savings rate & your own projected market performance (what benchmark/rate are you using)?

Doing some due diligence to see if I'm indeed over saving, just wanted to know what endpoint you all are looking at.

1. Retirement really has a lot of different meanings for many people so I would rather say what age do I plan on being financially independent in that I am producing enough pass/semi-passive income to live at what I would consider to be a comfortable level. For me, I am looking to reach this at age 45 because it is exactly at that time that my house will be paid off.

2. Income to consider myself financially independent would be a sustainable 80k/year in today's dollars assuming I have no unproductive debt. This amount could change if I have children as in 15 years they would still be dependent.

3. I would look to have productive assets of 2M (today's dollars) to reliably produce 80k/year in inflation adjusted income.

4. I am currently quite ahead of where I need to be (productive assets around 700k) though it really depends on how my married life finances settle into place, though so far the additional expense is mostly offset by tax savings and small income generation.
 
Questions for the peanut gallery:

1) What age are you looking to retire/semi-retire?
2) What is your target monthly income (specify if this is in current dollars or future dollars)?
3) What is your target 401(k)/403(b)/457(b)/IRA/Roth IRA aggregate balance by the age you listed in question 1?
4) Are you on track given your current savings rate & your own projected market performance (what benchmark/rate are you using)?

Doing some due diligence to see if I'm indeed over saving, just wanted to know what endpoint you all are looking at.
I don't really have specific numbers yet because there could be some gamechangers on the horizon:
- Getting married and having children
- Or paying off my mortgage, possibly within the next 3 years. Once this happens my monthly expenses will drop substantially and I will probably be able to live very comfortably on about $2,000/mo. So I could easily semi-retire before I reach 35 y/o, like drop to 3 days/30 hrs per week. Without a mortgage, required retirement income and account balances will be much lower as well. Plus I will have at least another 25 yrs until 59.5 y/o to sort those out, before you can even start withdrawing from retirement accounts.
 
Can you imagine Japan and Europe in a recession and growth in China dramatically slows down (therefore, affects Russia, India, Brazil)? That is why I have started to cash out my taxable accounts. Taking my profit. Too much risk on the table.

Will the U.S. companies do well because they are the only game in town?

or

Will the U.S. companies tank because they depend so much on the international market for their growth?

Anyone planning to buy gold? LOL
 
Anyone planning to buy gold? LOL

Might not be a terrible idea like it was 1-2 years ago. Though I still think it winds up below $1000. Europe is going to end austerity and finally get their economy back in order. And when they do, man, the value of the dollar is going to strengthen greatly.
 
Would you mind sharing yours?

Sure, current plan/thoughts:

1) What age are you looking to retire/semi-retire?
Hoping to reduce hours to part-time ~ age 50-55 or so.
Planning to be fully retired by age 60; however, I may be that old codger working in the pharmacy in my 80's because I have nothing better to do. Or somewhere in between. Who the hell knows.

2) What is your target monthly income (specify if this is in current dollars or future dollars)?
I think a nice round $100k/yr (current dollars) gross pay is reasonable given no mortgage by this point. I figure the difference between what I make now and this amount x 60% = current housing costs, so it's basically even.

3) What is your target 401(k)/403(b)/457(b)/IRA/Roth IRA aggregate balance by the age you listed in question 1?
Prior to this post I didn't really have a target, it's too early and I'm just throwing the annual maximums into these accounts, throw my hands up, and figure I can't do much more.

Now I'm thinking $2.5M (current dollars) is appropriate seeing that a 4% withdrawal = $100k/yr.

4) Are you on track given your current savings rate & your own projected market performance (what benchmark/rate are you using)?

Definitely on track to exceed given a 7% investment return projection. In fact, the numbers suggest I may be over saving a bit. What I'm having difficulty doing is predicting social security in 30-40 years...I just assume my benefit will be zero and go from there. Same with inheritances or other money.

So I'm just going to chug along the next 7-8 years at full maximum savings because of the double benefit I get in reducing my AGI for student loan purposes. After loans are discharged, I'll reevaluate and pull back or figure something else out.
 
This is why I am not into international stocks:

Japan's economy dips into recession

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30077122

isn't japan's economy been in perpetual recession since 1989, based off nikkei? there economy has been stagnant for over 20 years it seems. going into recession doesn't seem to change much in their daily lives as opposed to what it was before the recession.
 
isn't japan's economy been in perpetual recession since 1989, based off nikkei? there economy has been stagnant for over 20 years it seems. going into recession doesn't seem to change much in their daily lives as opposed to what it was before the recession.

That's why you don't predict which market is going to outperform others, thinking you have the crystal ball. Invest in everything. Don't focus on just 1 single country. And, if you do invest in Japan the past 2 years, you just doubled your money.
 
Questions for the peanut gallery:

1) What age are you looking to retire/semi-retire?
2) What is your target monthly income (specify if this is in current dollars or future dollars)?
3) What is your target 401(k)/403(b)/457(b)/IRA/Roth IRA aggregate balance by the age you listed in question 1?
4) Are you on track given your current savings rate & your own projected market performance (what benchmark/rate are you using)?

Doing some due diligence to see if I'm indeed over saving, just wanted to know what endpoint you all are looking at.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zoeoedjnz8vbg4i/IPS to share.docx?dl=0
 
The stock market is going up, up, up! There is no stopping this bull market.
 
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The stock market is going up, up, up! There is no stopping this bull market.

Got another +$3k not doing anything for 2 days, wtf... Correction 10% please... tho I doubt it -_-; it's just gonna keep going up until 2016.
 
What is going on with oil price? Are the Saudis trying to bankrupt the North America Shale oil industry? In the meantime, Russia, Iran, Venezuela and other oil producing countries will be damaged goods if oil price continues to go down...
 
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It might not for a while. The profits are legit. The economy is accelerating. Inflation is very low somehow. I'm about to build a Ben Bernanke statue if this has minimal blowback when its all said and done. For real.
 
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For all the smart helpful people out there....some of the numbers you guys are putting out there are pretty staggering for me...making me think that I'm behind in regards to retirement.

Here are my numbers...could anyone please help me with their input in regards to my retirement? Thanks!

Goals are to retire at around 62...currently I'm single with no kids but plan on doing that whole thing in the near future.
Currenlty I am 36 with about 110k in 401k and roth ira...I max out my 401k and put in about a grand a year in my roth.
Just started a 220k mortgage a little over a year ago. Student loans should be paid off in about 7 years.

I guess my ultimate goal is to have about 2million in my retirement accounts by the time I'm 60...is this possible with about a 5-7 percent yearly return?

Is there anything else I should be doing? Thanks1
 
For all the smart helpful people out there....some of the numbers you guys are putting out there are pretty staggering for me...making me think that I'm behind in regards to retirement.

Here are my numbers...could anyone please help me with their input in regards to my retirement? Thanks!

Goals are to retire at around 62...currently I'm single with no kids but plan on doing that whole thing in the near future.
Currenlty I am 36 with about 110k in 401k and roth ira...I max out my 401k and put in about a grand a year in my roth.
Just started a 220k mortgage a little over a year ago. Student loans should be paid off in about 7 years.

I guess my ultimate goal is to have about 2million in my retirement accounts by the time I'm 60...is this possible with about a 5-7 percent yearly return?

Is there anything else I should be doing? Thanks1
Without really breaking it down, it seems about right. You've got 26 more years of working, so $18k x 26 + your current $110k= $578k in principle alone, without any returns. With ~7% return your money should approximately double every 10 years, so you're probably doing ok.
 
321000 low wage part time jobs for the kids with college degrees and loads of debt. Mostly seasonal. Woohoo. This number will also be revised downward in 3 weeks. No one will notice that however. Don't forget the reason this economy is even plodding along is from massive amounts of stimulus. Enjoy the ride up. The ride down will be painful.
 
321000 low wage part time jobs for the kids with college degrees and loads of debt. Mostly seasonal. Woohoo. This number will also be revised downward in 3 weeks. No one will notice that however. Don't forget the reason this economy is even plodding along is from massive amounts of stimulus. Enjoy the ride up. The ride down will be painful.
I feel like this is one of the news channel propaganda... I called that laziness when people do that. Did you read the report? Did you ever visit the BLS website? First, most of these jobs were in business, engineering, healthcare, manufacturing and 16% of them were in retail. 90% of the revision in the last 2 years have been upward, so you should at least do your homework before repeating whatever you hear on TV or read from websites...
 
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I feel like this is one of the news channel propaganda... I called that laziness when people do that. Did you read the report? Did you ever visit the BLS website? First, most of these jobs were in business, engineering, healthcare, manufacturing and 16% of them were in retail. 90% of the revision in the last 2 years have been upward, so you should at least do your homework before repeating whatever you hear on TV or read from websites...

Most of the revisions have been downward. Do you even know how the unemployment rate is determined? The questions they ask are very biased. The whole process is a joke. Trust me I've investigated this more than you have. I think you're the one tuned into MSNBS a bit too much.
 
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