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ya the numbers for UCLA look legit
I'm really shocked by the high number in prestige schools, I would have thought they'd be more swayed by the siren call of $$ fields
Creighton is small right, only about 4000 students? The only other schools that small that made the list (Rice and Case Western) have insane numbers of premeds per capita. Creighton probably has a solid amount like 8% or something but with a class size of 1000 that's not quite enough to qualify. All the liberal arts schools are similarly excluded
"premed factory,"
That's another case of too small to be reported by AAMC, they only graduate like 300 people per year so they wouldn't make the list unless they had 33%+ premedThat brings up a question for @efle: what are the numbers for Haverford? That's allegedly a big premed factory on the (b)East Coast.
You know how many people I've met at my (top 10) school who are straight up doing medicine because their parents said to? Some cultures value the prestige of a job over salary, and a lot of these people end up at top schoolsI'm really shocked by the high number in prestige schools, I would have thought they'd be more swayed by the siren call of $$ fields
I'm really shocked by the high number in prestige schools, I would have thought they'd be more swayed by the siren call of $$ fields
You know how many people I've met at my (top 10) school who are straight up doing medicine because their parents said to? Some cultures value the prestige of a job over salary, and a lot of these people end up at top schools
It's actually kind of sad. I have a friend who knows exactly what non-medical career she wants, but her physician parents told she needs to be a doctor and she is going to med school now.I agree. There are some cultures that limit their children's undergrad major choices to Engineering, Comp Sci, STEM/premed, and very little else. The idea of pursuing Wall Street is foreign to them (no pun intended).
Furthermore, because their immigrant parents don't understand the premed to med school process, they assume that their child can only get into a "good" med school by first attending a top undergrad. They certainly do not understand that all the MD schools here are very good, and likely have no idea that their own respected physicians probably did not attend an ivy undergrad or big name med.
ya the numbers for UCLA look legit
However nobody expects to stay in those fields 10 years following graduation (another measure of the survey) but many, many (~15%) expect to be working in health industries after 10 years. Is this the Harvard grads way of saying I will make my millions and then apply to medical school? I'm not sure but maybe.
I still wonder how all of those applicants get LORs, or at least very supportive LORs, from STEM professors that are likely hounded by several hundred applicants (plus hounded by all the STEM grad/vet/dental school applicants). Class-sizes are large at the top UCs, so that further complicates matters. My undergrad, a similarly-sized state school, only has about 150 MD applicants, so getting quality STEM prof LORs is not that hard as long as you're a strong student.
I can't help but think that a number of the LORs are just boilerplated, fill in the person's name, maybe mention an odd detail or two, and submit (while the prof moves on to #156 LOR). Sorry to sound cynical, but can you imagine this scenario from the profs' point of view.
As much as I look forward to becoming a physician, there's no friggin' way I'd be going thru all of this now, if I already had millions stashed away from a previous career. I can be as altruistic as the next guy, but I would rather start a foundation and help others that way. My parents have a very close, wealthy friend who was a financial supporter (thru his family's foundation) for Mother Teresa. One time while visiting her in India, she took him on a tour. Overwhelmed at all that the sisters do at their facilities, he collapsed down in a chair next to her and said, "Mother, I could never do all that you do." Mother Teresa patted his hand, looked him in the eye, and replied, "We could never do what we do without you doing what you do." ( A nice thought on this Thanksgiving Day. )
My school sends hundreds of premeds to medical school every year (a bit less than UcLA) but I don't think LORs are a problem for me. They have been painless and from people who I feel know me for the things they have been written for in the past. It all depends on how you carve out your college career. Working in a lab is one method but there are very small classes (even science ones) to take even at large universities. My neuroscience course this semester is 12 people. My history class is 11 and my sociology/literature seminar is ~20. My biochemistry class next semester will be around 20-25 students. You just have to pick the write professors and classes haha even though that usually means taking non-required classes
I can confirm this. Those who aren't pre med are the minority. Many of my friends started out as physics or bio majors planning to go to med school. They all either changed to writing or finance in the first year.Its applicants, so at the end of college. Yep those handful of crazy feeder schools have 1/5 to 1/4 of every class applying to Med schools! For Hopkins I'd bet you're in the minority NOT being premed as an incoming froshie
Pretty much, unless you do research with said professor.I can't help but think that a number of the LORs are just boilerplated, fill in the person's name, maybe mention an odd detail or two, and submit (while the prof moves on to #156 LOR). Sorry to sound cynical, but can you imagine this scenario from the profs' point of view.
Pretty much, unless you do research with said professor.
I think AAMC on their ADCOM survey had LORs as the second most important factor in deciding an admission decision after the interview.
Interesting. I thought LORs (or CLs) would be the more determining factor when deciding who to interview. Didn't think that they would hold that much weight post-interview. Some rubrics I've seen are like 30% MCAT/30% GPA /40% interview, which would suggest that LORs hold the most weight when handing out IIs. I guess it varies from school to school.
250k income a year is upper middle class especially if you live in NYC or California.
Upper class should mean rich enough to not work. If you're making 250k a year you're still a wage-slave with about the same political/economic/social power as someone making 100k or 60k a year.
250k income a year is upper middle class especially if you live in NYC or California.
Upper class should mean rich enough to not work. If you're making 250k a year you're still a wage-slave with about the same political/economic/social power as someone making 100k or 60k a year.
Another fun fact is that 75% of respondents whose families make over 250k chose to label themselves as upper middle class rather than upper class. ElOhEl.
I wish I could make this! Unfortunately since you need 50+ Asian or 100+ white applicants in a graduating class to make the list, no small schools had data available. For example a school like Amherst only graduates about 450 students each year, so they'd have to have some ridiculous rate in the 20+% range to appear at all.a full report on the LACs
At places with high weedout rates like Hopkins, the data suggests something like 3/4 freshman come in as premed. Absolutely insaneI would have been shocked if 25% identified as pre-med at beginning of frosh year, much less 25% of each graduating class.
I wish I could make this! Unfortunately since you need 50+ Asian or 100+ white applicants in a graduating class to make the list, no small schools had data available. For example a school like Amherst only graduates about 450 students each year, so they'd have to have some ridiculous rate in the 20+% range to appear at all.
Fun fact, the smallest school making the list was also one of the most premedically oriented, Rice at ~4000 students!
At places with high weedout rates like Hopkins, the data suggests something like 3/4 freshman come in as premed. Absolutely insane
I wish I could make this! Unfortunately since you need 50+ Asian or 100+ white applicants in a graduating class to make the list, no small schools had data available. For example a school like Amherst only graduates about 450 students each year, so they'd have to have some ridiculous rate in the 20+% range to appear at all.
Fun fact, the smallest school making the list was also one of the most premedically oriented, Rice at ~4000 students!
At places with high weedout rates like Hopkins, the data suggests something like 3/4 freshman come in as premed. Absolutely insane
Another fun fact is that 75% of respondents whose families make over 250k chose to label themselves as upper middle class rather than upper class. ElOhEl.
Not to give you a hard time, but this would put you in the top 1% according to the census bureauMy family makes around that much. We call it the we-make-too-much-for-financial-aid-but-too-little-to-comfortably-afford-college-class. My family is certainly not upper class.
Not to give you a hard time, but this would put you in the top 1% according to the census bureau
Is there any official number for % of med students with physician parent(s)?Interestingly enough, amongst medical students family income while this is purely a guess on my part( I really have no inside info), I wouldnt be surprised if that income wasnt in the top 25 percent.
Last I checked, top 1% was somewhere in excess of $400k, and even that's technically for individual incomes.Not to give you a hard time, but this would put you in the top 1% according to the census bureau
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html Yeah, it seems like 1% is around $400K.Last I checked, top 1% was somewhere in excess of $400k, and even that's technically for individual incomes.
Is there any official number for % of med students with physician parent(s)?
Looks like I was wrong about individual vs household income though. Nonetheless, while $250k household is enough to be very comfortable, I can get why people wouldn't consider it to be upper class (and I tend to agree)http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html Yeah, it seems like 1% is around $400K.
I've heard in the past the number 30- 35% thrown around by several doctors and residents themselves I know personally some of whom are involved in admissions process. However that's hardly some fail proof verifiable statistic. I would be surprised though if the number was significantly lower than that(ie <20%)
My family makes around that much. We call it the we-make-too-much-for-financial-aid-but-too-little-to-comfortably-afford-college-class. My family is certainly not upper class.
That's pretty much the definition of middle class in my book (unless your definition of "luxury items" means a golden toilet seats, lambos, etc.). These definitions are obviously subjective, but I would definitely consider a household income of $125k to be solidly middle class - not rich in any sense of the word. And for whatever it's worth, a dollar does tend to go farther in Texas than it does in say... California or NYC.If you can afford all of your living needs (shelter, food, clothing transportation) and have money left over to save and invest and buy luxury items...
Many politicians, heirs to fortunes, top business executives, CEOs, successful venture capitalists, those born into high society, and some celebrities may be considered members of this class. Some prominent and high-rung professionals may also be included if they attain great influence and wealth. The main distinguishing feature of this class, which is estimated to constitute roughly 1% of the population, is the source of income. While the vast majority of people and households derive their income from wages or salaries, those in the upper class derive their income from investments and capital gains.[4][6] Estimates for the size of this group commonly vary from 1% to 2%,[3] while some surveys have indicated that as many as 6% of Americans identify as "upper class." Sociologist Leonard Beeghley sees wealth as the only significant distinguishing feature of this class and, therefore, refers to this group simply as "the rich."[1]
Last I checked, top 1% was somewhere in excess of $400k, and even that's technically for individual incomes.
It varies by age.http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html Yeah, it seems like 1% is around $400K.
This is why I don't use terms like "upper class." Percentages are much easier to follow. Honestly I think QOL is a better metric than income anyway.That's pretty much the definition of middle class in my book (unless your definition of "luxury items" means a golden toilet seats, lambos, etc.). These definitions are obviously subjective, but I would definitely consider a household income of $125k to be solidly middle class - not rich in any sense of the word. And for whatever it's worth, a dollar does tend to go farther in Texas than it does in say... California or NYC.
This is what Wikipedia describes as upper class:
A $250k household income doesn't really fit that description.
Over 30% have a doctorate but that includes all doctorates. Resource is AAMC but not at home computer to pull the study. It was the one on effect of SES in admissions.Is there any official number for % of med students with physician parent(s)?
If you look at the paper that article sources, those values aren't for household incomes; it's for individual workers.It varies by age.
"At the top of the economic ladder is the so-called "1 percent," or households that earn more than $250,000 annually"
The second quote was supposed to be a hyperlink; not sure what happened, but you can google it. It really doesn't matter though. Whether or not a family is in the top 1%, or 2%, or even 5% or 10% -- that is "wealthy" in my book.If you look at the paper that article sources, those values aren't for household incomes; it's for individual workers.
That's pretty much the definition of middle class in my book (unless your definition of "luxury items" means a golden toilet seats, lambos, etc.). These definitions are obviously subjective, but I would definitely consider a household income of $125k to be solidly middle class - not rich in any sense of the word. And for whatever it's worth, a dollar does tend to go farther in Texas than it does in say... California or NYC.
This is what Wikipedia describes as upper class:
A $250k household income doesn't really fit that description.
Better than sex yojesus is this what you do for fun???