The MSPE

[Lotuseater]

I'm an FMG, and my school certainly does NOT cherry-pick comments for the MSPE:

"I worked with ____ for a brief duration of 2 weeks and found him very pre-occupied and unfocused in rounds. I discussed his performance with him and he stated that he was having some personal issues for which he was going to get some help"

AND

"He is reserved and I'm afraid this makes him seem less involved even though he is actively involved. His clinical knowledge seemed marginal. This is because he needs a lot more clinical experience to better learn how to prioritize patient problems. He is very involved with the patients and has strong empathy for them. I was impressed by this. Overall, he collects data well, but his clinical knowledge and lack of experience are holding him back."

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[raspberry009]

I'm an FMG, and my school certainly does NOT cherry-pick comments for the MSPE. I received some terrible ones during my medicine rotation, which was my first rotation and I was very nervous and so didn't perform to my abilities, despite a good Step 1 score (92) and good class average (82%, top third of my class) :

"I worked with ____ for a brief duration of 2 weeks and found him very pre-occupied and unfocused in rounds. I discussed his performance with him and he stated that he was having some personal issues for which he was going to get some help"

AND

"He is reserved and I'm afraid this makes him seem less involved even though he is actively involved. His clinical knowledge seemed marginal. This is because he needs a lot more clinical experience to better learn how to prioritize patient problems. He is very involved with the patients and has strong empathy for them. I was impressed by this. Overall, he collects data well, but his clinical knowledge and lack of experience are holding him back."

I am a caribbean FMG and did all clinicals in the US. Medicine was the only rotation that I didn't do well in, and only because it was my first and I was so scared and nervous all the time.... but I chilled out in subsequent rotations, however the medicine attendings wrote long comments, most decent, but these two just awful, while my other rotation attendings wrote barely anything except "excellent academic performance". I'm applying to Psychiatry, and got interviews at good places before the MSPE came out, but any idea as to how much these comments will harm my application overall, or during rank order time, or at interviews? How much will PD's care about these comments, how often do they read an MSPE coming from an FMG?

Oh...*wow* for a lack of a better phrase. I feel for you. especially the "some personal issues for which he was going to get some help." Definately a bump in the road. I have had comments on my MSPE which were addressed during my interviews, so I know some people read them. But if you have glowing comments from other rotations, I don't see why they wouldn't give you a benefit of the doubt. Be prepared to address the comment during interviews. But you probably already know all this.

Anyone else have more detailed info?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I think you can count on your MSPE being read. Good news is you already have interviews, and you need to be prepared to address this. You are certain to be asked about it:

"I see that you seemed to have a problem on your medicine rotation"

or my personal favorite

"Tell me about your biggest challenge in medical school"

Presumably, the answer is as you describe it. If there was a personal issue, you might want to be open about that (especially if it's completely resolved). The evidence should be 1) no further concerning comments in any rotation, 2) a good sub I with a good LOR, and 3) a good Step 2 score.

 

[stentingdoc]

It appears I touch a bit of a nerve, here.

First of all, for schools that do not edit comments, we absolutely DO know that's the case and take that into consideration. Every dean's letter comes with a bunch of standardize appendices, and one of them asks if the dean's letters are unedited, edited for conciseness, or simply edited (don't quote me on that -- dean;s letters aren't out yet this year and I don't have home access to look at last year's apps but it's something like that).

What is kinda interesting is that I expect many MSPE's are edited, and the dean's office tells us they are not (or that it's just "conciseness").

If you're brave enough to do so, PM me with your school and what they tell you their stated policy is about editing dean's letter comments. If you do so, I'll send you back what your school officially reports to us (assuming someone from your school applies to my program)

The "performance" graphs are also part of the appendices, not sure if they show them to you or not. Sometimes this is included in the transcript instead. Virtually all allopathic schools include this information.

Advice to all: Stop panicking about your MSPE's. They are not under your control. If we get a less-than-useful one, we simply deal with it. It's unlikely to hurt you in any meaningful way -- we simply have to rely on other factors more heavily.

 

[stentingdoc]

Good Morning Program Director:

I have been reading several of your posts regarding the significance of the MSPE. I have several questions and really need some advice!! I am not so sure I want the concerns be made public and was wandering if I could email you my questions.
Thank you again for your useful posts and consideration.

 

[candbgirl]

And you bumped a thread that is 7.5years old. Not sure you'll get a response and things do change in that length of time!

 

[fantasty]

And you bumped a thread that is 7.5years old. Not sure you'll get a response and things do change in that length of time!

True. But, I think aPD is still on top of things (although it's been a while since I ventured in here)

 

[fantasty]

And then I had to go back and see why in the world I even saw this thread on my "unread" list. I'm getting too old for this...

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The poster is free to PM me if they wish.

 

[ProgCord]

I'm a little late to the game here, but I wanted to share my input... take or disregard as you please!

First, I'm more of a lurker than poster, but thanks to aProgDirector for giving sound advice that I am more often than not in agreement with - I was a little taken aback by the initial comment that IMG Dean's letters are generally not valued, and appreciate the later clarification. As this person has stated, we can only speak for our own programs, so take the following with that in mind, please.

I have worked with several programs and some programs don't read your MSPE at all, some even don't read your personal statement without reason (I read it though! Address your red flags! The PC may be your best advocate!). I have never worked with a program where the MSPE can be the "make" save consistent rave reviews, but it can always be a potential "break." I don't say that to freak you all out - "needs to read more" is a really unhelpful, non relevant comment that no one cares about. I have seen comments in the MSPE/Dean's letter along the lines of "Consistently late to report, disrespectful to peers/nursing staff, not well-prepared or well-read for cases/classes/presentations, left call without permission, etc, etc, etc." Yeah.... no USMLE score saves you from that kind of documented feedback on your application if the PD/review committee sees it and their next step will be to look at your personal statement for explanation.

Essentially, if you didn't make people angry enough for it to be an issue, the MSPE is of little to moderate importance in company with a lot of other program-specific factors, and is looked at for class rank and relevant rotation comments, generally with a focus on your preferred field and closely related fields.

All your application does, really, (again, in my own experience but with a few different programs) is to get you an interview. The interview nails it in - if you are borderline, or if we are looking at you vs another for rank order as a committee, we will go back to your apps, but after interviews the focus is all about best fit for our program, and best fit for you. We may think you are awesome, but we don't think you would be happy/thrive here, so you drop down the list.

 

[playingfrombehind]

Most DO and IMG MSPE's are useless, regardless of the senility of the dean. Allopathic MD schools follow a standardized presentation of information that DO and IMG schools do not. Hence, board scores are much more important for DO and IMG applicants to allopathic residencies. Allopathic rotations with an LOR are also very valuable. Prior residents at a program from your school are also helpful (i.e. if someone before you from your school did well, I am more likely to take another student from that school. However, the opposite is also true)

According to UMICHigan see link below: the MSPE is a cateogory C criteria.
Cateogry A (most important) being Step 1, 2, M-3 clinical grades Hopefully what this poster says is true for all programs since my dean's letter is pretty strong but step1/2 is on the weaker side


link: https://www.med.umich.edu/medstudents/curRes/M4/docs/Critical_Components_of_the_Match.pdf