The **NEW & IMPROVED** official low gpa thread...

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Status update from my last post: I graduated with my Biology degree and these are the course grades that I have received since summer 2013 when I came to receive my degree:
Cell Biology- C+
Pharmacology- C
Neurobiology- C
Vertebrate Physiology- B
Virology- A-
Microbiology- B
Evolution- B
Developmental Biology- B

I took Medical Terminology and came out with an A, but that is not a science class. Fall 2013 was a 2.96 and now Spring 2014 was a 3.0. I have research done and will be doing research at the medical school here in Neurobiology. I remember Dr. Midlife already told me I needed to start getting A's. My cGPA now is a 2.57 (was a 2.43) and my sGPA is a 2.54 (was waaaaay lower than this). I have a Psychology and Biology degree. I want to apply to a Biomedical Science Master's programs like the one in Nova Southeastern, PCOM, and a few other places. In this upcoming year, I'll be retaking Organic Chem and then taking Bioorganic which is basically pre-Biochem since it covers the chemical mechanisms of cellular respiration. I'm also thinking of retaking Physics and Basic Biology. I feel like I need to start applying to master's programs so that I can at least be somewhere without my undergraduate years haunting me. I understand, after having read through this forum, that my performance above is not that of a person who wants to attend a DO school. However, Fall 2013 when I was taking my first four upper lvls where I got my C in Pharm, I had to take care of a 94 year old grandmother after her fall. The semester after, I had a flashback to Spring 2011 when more family trouble happened in Syria. Thus, I received my C in Neurobiology. I have a majority of B's and one A- in Virology. The Pharm and Neurobiology professors are actually willing to write me letters of recommendation to my master's programs. I know that I've improved significantly since my years in my previous university. I know there are other people afflicted by family troubles when it comes to their grades. For me, being Syrian and Egyptian, I tried not using the uproar as an excuse for my performance since before Spring 2011, my 2.67 GPA at that point in time was my immaturity. Now, I'm starting to realize my worries and fears for my family in the middle east is affecting me. I didn't get A's, but I know I can get into Graduate School in some form of biology. I just don't know if it'll be enough to try for DO after pushing through 2 years of a Master's. I've learned a lot these two semesters in terms of how to study and all these courses were taught with Grad students learning alongside us and taking the same exams. Many of my questions have already been answered, but I just wanted to drop by and post this situation in case someone feels like they're doing worse, but are actually doing better than many. Might be a motivator :)

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Hey, I've been lurking for a few weeks, too embarrassed to share my story, but here goes:

My high school offered college courses, I took 4 and got B+'s to A's.
I went to a small, elite liberal arts school and immediately began doing TERRIBLY. I have an anxiety disorder that I ignored with disastrous effect.
Undergrad:
Sci: 2.22
NonSci: 2.77
Cum: 2.55 (1 F, 1 D-, 1 D+, 2 W)
Initially I thought that I just didn't want academic success badly enough, so I took a year off between sophomore and junior years and worked as an EMT, which I loved. When I came back to school, I still was anxious and became depressed, so my grades got worse. Finally in my senior year I failed a class and went on academic probation, which, regardless of whether or not I ever get into medical school, I will be forever grateful because it helped me see that having 3 panic attacks a week is not normal, and was the push I needed to get diagnosed and turn my life around.
I worked in biomedical research for 2 years, had some amazing opportunities (got to work with a space shuttle mission), and then took an admittedly relatively light year of post bac (3 semesters, total 36 credits) where I retook some classes at a community college and a state school and did pretty well.
Postbac:
Sci: 3.81 (including A's in Orgo1&2)
Nonsci: 3.54
Cum: 3.72
For some insane reason, I thought I could jump into orgo 2 without taking orgo 1, so I do have a withdraw in my postbac year. I'm back working in research for another year, and I'm taking the MCAT next week. I have consistently been getting 33's in practice, and I have no testing anxiety so I hope to get a 33 officially. (fingers crossed for a 34!)

I will be applying exclusively to osteopathic schools, and my top choice is NYCOM.

What are we looking at here? I know I'm a long shot, but is my post bac work anywhere near what DO schools would like to see?
 
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Cum: 2.55 (1 F, 1 D-, 1 D+, 2 W)
Postbac:
Sci: 3.81 (including A's in Orgo1&2)
Nonsci: 3.54
Cum: 3.72What are we looking at here? I know I'm a long shot, but is my post bac work anywhere near what DO schools would like to see?
You need more than one year of redemption. You can't counter 4 years of bad with one of pretty good.

Look at the masters programs at DO schools. Seriously. I don't think NYCOM has one but LECOM does.

Best of luck to you.
 
Hey, I've been lurking for a few weeks, too embarrassed to share my story, but here goes:

My high school offered college courses, I took 4 and got B+'s to A's.
I went to a small, elite liberal arts school and immediately began doing TERRIBLY. I have an anxiety disorder that I ignored with disastrous effect.
Undergrad:
Sci: 2.22
NonSci: 2.77
Cum: 2.55 (1 F, 1 D-, 1 D+, 2 W)
Initially I thought that I just didn't want academic success badly enough, so I took a year off between sophomore and junior years and worked as an EMT, which I loved. When I came back to school, I still was anxious and became depressed, so my grades got worse. Finally in my senior year I failed a class and went on academic probation, which, regardless of whether or not I ever get into medical school, I will be forever grateful because it helped me see that having 3 panic attacks a week is not normal, and was the push I needed to get diagnosed and turn my life around.
I worked in biomedical research for 2 years, had some amazing opportunities (got to work with a space shuttle mission), and then took an admittedly relatively light year of post bac (3 semesters, total 36 credits) where I retook some classes at a community college and a state school and did pretty well.
Postbac:
Sci: 3.81 (including A's in Orgo1&2)
Nonsci: 3.54
Cum: 3.72
For some insane reason, I thought I could jump into orgo 2 without taking orgo 1, so I do have a withdraw in my postbac year. I'm back working in research for another year, and I'm taking the MCAT next week. I have consistently been getting 33's in practice, and I have no testing anxiety so I hope to get a 33 officially. (fingers crossed for a 34!)

I will be applying exclusively to osteopathic schools, and my top choice is NYCOM.

What are we looking at here? I know I'm a long shot, but is my post bac work anywhere near what DO schools would like to see?

+1 to more work in masters. Community college work doesn't hold much weight for grade redemption either
 
Thanks for your feedback, guys! I'm already all set to apply this round, will it hurt me if I try? I figure best case I get in, worse case I lose a good chunk of money...
 
Thanks for your feedback, guys! I'm already all set to apply this round, will it hurt me if I try? I figure best case I get in, worse case I lose a good chunk of money...
For medical school? I hope you are joking

Calculate your actual total cGPA and sGPA - then lets see where you stand

+1 to the community college grades mean less than 4-yr grades
 
Hey man, I'm just here looking for some help. I'll take your comment as advice not to apply this round.

NonSci: 3.00
Sci: 2.73
Cum: 2.89
 
Hey man, I'm just here looking for some help. I'll take your comment as advice not to apply this round.
Do the grade calculations and then see where you stand.

Edit - you added the GPAs to your last post. Still no chance at a DO school, even if taking your CC classes at full face value (which isnt true). You need another year of upper level sciences classes and get As. This paired with a good MCAT will start to give you a shot at a DO school, or a decent SMP
 
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NonSci: 3.00
Sci: 2.73
Cum: 2.89
There are definitely bottom tier DO and Carib schools that will accept you if you throw a 30+, but you'd be a fool to accept them. Do another couple years of redemption before you waste your time and money on applying. The emotional roller coaster of a bad app year takes a toll, long term. I recommend having great respect for your competition.

Quick note on MCAT practice scores: it's been years since practice AAMC/Kaplan tests were predictive of anything other than time management. The classic mistake is in using a practice MCAT score as permission to stop working. Content mastery is the real predictor, not whether a topic shows up on a practice test. My strong recommendation is to work every problem in the Examkracker 1001 books, and whatever else you can get your hands on. Quiz yourself blind.

Best of luck to you.
 
Here is my situation, and I would appreciate any feedback:

cGPA: 3.31
sGPA: 3.15
MCAT: 33

I went to a top 15 private school. I really struggled my first two years, and have a D, a C+, and a C- to show for it. I came out of my sophomore year with a 2.9 cgPA, so I really busted my ass to bring it up to where it is now. I am currently working on a Masters degree in a science-heavy major, and am expecting to graduate in July with a 4.0. I'm applying to MD schools this cycle. I have plenty of research experience, some volunteering experience, and good LOR's.

I need to re-take the C- as it was a pre-req course (Physics II); if I get an A, that will bring my sGPA to 3.2 and cGPA to 3.34. I have calculated that if I take 8 more science credits in addition to Physics II and earn A's, my cGPA will come up to 3.39 and sGPA to 3.29. Would this be worth the ~$6,000 tuition?

So what do you guys think of my chances/any advice to improve my application?
 
Here is my situation, and I would appreciate any feedback:

cGPA: 3.31
sGPA: 3.15
MCAT: 33

I went to a top 15 private school. I really struggled my first two years, and have a D, a C+, and a C- to show for it. I came out of my sophomore year with a 2.9 cgPA, so I really busted my ass to bring it up to where it is now. I am currently working on a Masters degree in a science-heavy major, and am expecting to graduate in July with a 4.0. I'm applying to MD schools this cycle. I have plenty of research experience, some volunteering experience, and good LOR's.

I need to re-take the C- as it was a pre-req course (Physics II); if I get an A, that will bring my sGPA to 3.2 and cGPA to 3.34. I have calculated that if I take 8 more science credits in addition to Physics II and earn A's, my cGPA will come up to 3.39 and sGPA to 3.29. Would this be worth the ~$6,000 tuition?

So what do you guys think of my chances/any advice to improve my application?
This really depends on what state you're in, because in California it'd be a weak app but in LA/GA/MS/etc that masters degree will probably get the job done. Generally your undergrad GPAs are going to be THE problem in your app, regardless, so be emotionally prepared for a rough app cycle.

$6k is cheap compared to SMPs ($50k), and doing another undergrad semester would be a proactive step that sets you up to send an update letter in January with a nice fat 4.0 transcript. Break 3.4 and 3.3 with those GPAs though - take a heavy load. And keep in mind that MD schools don't forgive the old C-, it stays in your GPA.

Best of luck to you.
 
Hey everyone,

I've been a long time lurker in these threads going through my post-bacc phase after some poor grades as an undergrad. I thought I would briefly share my stats to inspire hope as these threads can be somewhat depressing. When I graduated from undergrad I had a cGPA of 2.99 and sGPA of 2.66. The best thing I did was realize I dug myself a hole my sophomore year and stopped taking pre-med classes, so the 2.66 was only 32 semester hours worth. I chose to stop rather than buckle down and stick with premed because I was also a serious college athlete and decided to focus on that. I know there are many college athletes who are able to focus and excel at both, but I seriously lacked the maturity to do so at 19 years old.

Anyway, after spending a couple years abroad playing basketball, I decided I was ready to come back, face my poor GPA, and make a go at med school. I did a DIY post-bacc at my state university (two years). I looked at some traditional post-bacc programs, but decided I wanted more flexibility in cramming as many math and science courses in as I could to offset my GPA. I also spent about 4 months meticulously studying for the mcat. Additionally, because I had taken so many math and science courses, I had enough prereqs to pursue a masters degree in biomedical engineering this last year, thesis and all, while I was applying to med schools. I ended up applying with a cGPA of 3.4 and sGPA of 3.65, and a 37 mcat (non-URM). Most of the advice I got was apply to lower tier MD schools and DO schools. I applied to 30 MD schools across all tiers. I ended up getting a few acceptances, and two of them to top ten schools.

Of course everyone's situation is different, so it is hard to give general advice on what route to take. Get straight A's in a post-bacc or SMP and rock the mcat seems to be a common theme, and is definitely sound advice. However, because we have low GPAs, we're already starting with a red flag, and there are plenty of applicants who have solid GPAs and good mcat scores who didn't need a post-bacc. So another piece of advice I can offer is to do something different and unique. I think a lot of the success I had was because I didn't do a traditional post-bacc program, and I was able to communicate the value of doing a post-bacc the way that I did to adcoms. Adcoms are trying to put together a class of unique individuals who come from different backgrounds and experiences, so it is not simply a numbers game. That is where I believe you can gain an advantage as a low GPA applicant. Lastly, I would definitely say don't be afraid to own your low GPA. The personal statement provides ample opportunity to discuss, if needed, why your undergrad GPA is low, and being able to maturely discuss your faults and how you've recognized and improved on those can go a long way.

I apologize for the long post, but to all of those who are thinking of climbing the GPA mountain, or to those who are currently climbing, don't be afraid and keep at it! It is easy to come across naysayers in these threads, but if you are determined you can indeed succeed. Good luck!
 
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Woot, I found this gem. Just want to introduce myself. I'll frequently visit /read this thread. Thank you for all the valuable advices.
 
Wondering what type of program people think would be best with these stats from a top tier undergrad university:

cGPA = 3.25
sGPA ~~ 3.20 (Core pre-med courses GPA is even lower, roughly 2.9, with 2 C's)
Haven't taken the MCAT or GRE.

Right now I'm leaning towards a Record Enhancement Program (I.e. UPenn, WashU, Drexler, SFSU) but I have also given some serious consideration to a Masters in something like anatomy. Any advice would be appreciated.

Edit: One other possibility is take the GRE ASAP and apply to a SMP but I'm not sure how feasible that would be/if I'd even have a shot at the better programs this late in the cycle.
 
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Wondering what type of program people think would be best with these stats from a top tier undergrad university:

cGPA = 3.25
sGPA ~~ 3.20 (Core pre-med courses GPA is even lower, roughly 2.9, with 2 C's)
Haven't taken the MCAT or GRE.

Right now I'm leaning towards a Record Enhancement Program (I.e. UPenn, WashU, Drexler, SFSU) but I have also given some serious consideration to a Masters in something like anatomy. Any advice would be appreciated.

Edit: One other possibility is take the GRE ASAP and apply to a SMP but I'm not sure how feasible that would be/if I'd even have a shot at the better programs this late in the cycle.
I'd vote for you to look for an opportunity to retake the prereqs so you learn the material, and to get some fresh upper div undergrad science to help with your numbers. You're going to find that you don't have enough content mastery to do well on the MCAT, nor to do well in an SMP nor med school, until you've revisited your trouble areas and gotten mostly A's. You might still need an SMP after you do more undergrad.

You don't have to do a formal program. You can do a 2nd bachelors or take classes through HarvardX/BerkeleyX/etc. I strongly recommend against community college or online work, but otherwise you can do whatever you like to get classes.

Meanwhile, talking about the prestige of your school is really annoying. The public school 4.0's will be eating you for breakfast. The 3.5's too. Nobody wants to hear why you think your low GPA is better than somebody else's low GPA.

Best of luck to you.
 
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I'd vote for you to look for an opportunity to retake the prereqs so you learn the material, and to get some fresh upper div undergrad science to help with your numbers. You're going to find that you don't have enough content mastery to do well on the MCAT, nor to do well in an SMP nor med school, until you've revisited your trouble areas and gotten mostly A's. You might still need an SMP after you do more undergrad.

You don't have to do a formal program. You can do a 2nd bachelors or take classes through HarvardX/BerkeleyX/etc. I strongly recommend against community college or online work, but otherwise you can do whatever you like to get classes.

Meanwhile, talking about the prestige of your school is really annoying. The public school 4.0's will be eating you for breakfast. The 3.5's too. Nobody wants to hear why you think your low GPA is better than somebody else's low GPA.

Best of luck to you.

Really appreciate the input.

My practice MCAT scores right now are hovering in the low 30s (with my weakest section consistently being PS) so I'm not sure if re-taking the prereqs is necessary for me at this point although it obviously can't hurt.

Is raising the undergrad GPA definitely the way to go over a science-focused Masters? Would doing it through a program like SFSU vs. a program like UPenn make a big difference?

Here's the number crunching I did assuming I take 2 semesters worth of undergrad course work:

Assuming all "A's":
4 courses per semester (12 units per semester) = 3.3666 ~ 3.37
5 courses per semester (15 units per semester) = 3.3905 ~ 3.39
5 courses per semester with one 4 unit course each (16 units per semester) = 3.3981 ~ 3.40

Also, what exactly do you mean by "X"?

Lastly I only mention the prestige factor because I keep getting told that it will make a difference (at the very least, with all else equal). I'm not banking on the prestige of my undergrad to get me accepted anywhere.

Edit: I didn't include sGPA calculations because there are too many classes that could go either way to make a legitimate estimate.
 
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Really appreciate the input.

My practice MCAT scores right now are hovering in the low 30s (with my weakest section consistently being PS) so I'm not sure if re-taking the prereqs is necessary for me at this point although it obviously can't hurt.

Is raising the undergrad GPA definitely the way to go over a science-focused Masters? Would doing it through a program like SFSU vs. a program like UPenn make a big difference?

Here's the number crunching I did assuming I take 2 semesters worth of undergrad course work:

Assuming all "A's":
4 courses per semester (12 units per semester) = 3.3666 ~ 3.37
5 courses per semester (15 units per semester) = 3.3905 ~ 3.39
5 courses per semester with one 4 unit course each (16 units per semester) = 3.3981 ~ 3.40

Also, what exactly do you mean by "X"?

Lastly I only mention the prestige factor because I keep getting told that it will make a difference (at the very least, with all else equal). I'm not banking on the prestige of my undergrad to get me accepted anywhere.
The AAMC practice tests have aged badly, with the focus on 2015 now. Practice tests have become less and less predictive of test day, because people relax after they do okay and then they stop doing content review and then oops, questions on topics that you never saw on a practice test determine your career. If you look around SDN you'll see an epidemic of high practice scores followed by low exam scores. I recommend doubling down on content review, such as the Examkracker 1001 books. Yes, work every problem until you can do it all cold.

You'll have to decide for yourself what your next step is with additional schooling. My recommendation is more undergrad, because med school adcoms are going to look at your GPAs and then immediately look at your prereq grades. You're vulnerable in a solvable way, so solve it. Making the decision about more school should also decide whether you take the MCAT sooner vs. later. If you think you can switch up and do okay on the GRE in the next month or so, you could look at 2 year SMPs such as Boston and Tufts for fall 2014, maybe, and take the MCAT next spring. For instance.

X means extension, and not knowing that means you haven't spent much time reading posts in this subforum by massive hordes of people who have been in exactly your shoes. Missed free high-yield opportunity.

There's more to additional undergrad than its effect on your GPAs. Things that are good to show on GPA redemption are an upward trend and multiple years of 3.7+ in hard classes.

The only people who might care about the reputation of your undergrad school are the very old adcoms at some schools who will use it as a tiebreaker. You're not in tiebreaker land unless you live in a state like Mississippi or Louisiana. You'll most likely be looking at low tier MD or DO schools, so don't get excited about your school's prestige getting work done for you.

Best of luck to you.
 
Wondering what type of program people think would be best with these stats from a top tier undergrad university:

cGPA = 3.25
sGPA ~~ 3.20 (Core pre-med courses GPA is even lower, roughly 2.9, with 2 C's)
Haven't taken the MCAT or GRE.

Right now I'm leaning towards a Record Enhancement Program (I.e. UPenn, WashU, Drexler, SFSU) but I have also given some serious consideration to a Masters in something like anatomy. Any advice would be appreciated.

Edit: One other possibility is take the GRE ASAP and apply to a SMP but I'm not sure how feasible that would be/if I'd even have a shot at the better programs this late in the cycle.

I agree with DrMidlife. Definitely take some post-bacc undergrad courses to learn the material and boost your gpa. If you can get it up to a 3.4 that would help a lot, and would certainly go a longer way with a strong mcat score (my advice is don't take it until you're hovering in the mid to high 30's if possible to counter the gpa). Adcoms won't look much at your gpa from a science-focused masters because there is too much variability among graduate programs as to how rigorously the coursework is graded, and it may be difficult to get into a masters program with your low sGPA. Anyway, I think you would still be crippled by your low undergraduate gpa when applying.

Regarding post-baccs, I'm a big fan of diy post-baccs, so I'm not sure you need a program. Also DrMidlife is correct that adcoms could care less about the prestige of your undergrad institution, or where you take your post-bacc courses (I even called and asked an admissions director when I was deciding where to take my post-bacc courses).

Best of luck!
 
adcoms could care less about the prestige of your undergrad institution, or where you take your post-bacc courses (I even called and asked an admissions director when I was deciding where to take my post-bacc courses).
Not entirely true - some med schools use a GPA multiplier for schools based on reputation of grade inflation or deflation. Even some DO schools do this. But again, it's a tiebreaker.
 
Not entirely true - some med schools use a GPA multiplier for schools based on reputation of grade inflation or deflation. Even some DO schools do this. But again, it's a tiebreaker.

Thanks for the clarification. I was unaware of that. Always good to learn something new!
 
sGPA 3.2
cGPA 3.4

I desperately need advice from someone in the know because I’ve heard so many different things.

First off, I decided to go the medical school route after falling in love with the clinic while shadowing a physician. Self identify white (don’t know if that’s necessary to post, just saw that the stats are different for each group).

I have 4 years of intense cell biology research (6 publications, 1 first author, 2 more manuscripts to be submitted, 1 is another first author). I have good ECs from college (it’s why my grades suffered) and good LORs.

My MCAT practice test grades hover around a 34-36 and I’m signed up to take it in Jan for the next cycle (not saying I’ll score that, just a perspective on where I’m at).

I’m shooting for a top 20 med school and my in state med school and I realize that I need to massively boost my GPA and absolutely get above a 36.
My question is, the lowest of my ‘key’ undergrad science courses are both B- (phys I and ochem I), on the II levels of those classes I got As. I’m going to try to get into classes at Harvard Extension to boost my science GPA, so should I retake those classes with lower grades to show that I can (hopefully) get As? Does that look crazy?

Honestly, I would rather take some upper level undergrad bio and chemistry classes to boost my GPA, but I’m not sure if ADCOMS would turn their nose up at those grades and pay little mind to whether I could get good grades at upper level bio and chem classes (something I think I’m good at anyway).
Essentially what I would like an opinion on is, if I just boost my science GPA with a bunch of bio and chem classes that I would be good at, does that make up for the fact that phys was low? Does it look desperate to just take a bunch of science classes to boost the sGPA or do they see that as motivation that I want to do the work to get in?

Thanks everyone!
 
Does getting a good gpa in a SMP (3.8+) look much better even though your undergrad gpa is a 3.0? Supposed you have a stellar MCAT as well (35+). I understand the SMP is good for GPA repair, but will medical schools automatically screen your application if your uGPA is so low? I've been reading the forums and some people state that I'd have to go back and do separate post-bacc courses to fix my GPA to even have a chance. I'm just a little confused.
 
Per AACOMAS

BS in Natural Science from Pitt
cGPA 2.6
sGPA 2.9

Accepted to Masters in Pharmacology and Toxicology (32 cr)
Also pursuing Graduate Certificate in Physiology (20 cr)
Retaking Gen Chem II and both Physics I and II
MCAT scheduled for later this year, previous attempt was 26

If I ace my retakes and maintain a 3.5 average in graduate programs, my cGPA will raise to 2.9-3.0 and sGPA to 3.4.

Will ten years as a paramedic, strong graduate work, excellent LOR, and average MCAT be enough to get me into a lower DO school (the ones with minimum GPA requirements of 2.7 or so)?

*Please note that I am unable to retake the classes I did poorly in during undergraduate. These courses were in a very particular major (Emergency Medicine @ Pitt) and that institution will not allow me to retake them as they would affect my undergraduate record so going back to retake classes I did poorly in is not an option
 
I would really really appreciate if someone could think with me a little, and help me plan!

I have a 3.3 GPA from liberal arts school, no science courses. I'm starting a post bac pre med this fall. Knowing myself I predict to get *mostly* A's, but I can't tell ahead of time how I'll do on the MCAT.

So I guess my question is how much will my undergrad GPA hurt my chances to an MD program? If all goes well in the next 2 years and I get high grades and a decent MCAT, what are my chances to an MD vs. DO?

Before anyone says something mean I know it's early to predict but I'm just curious how a 3.3 non science GPA is perceived.
 
I have a 3.3 GPA from liberal arts school, no science courses. I'm starting a post bac pre med this fall. Knowing myself I predict to get *mostly* A's, but I can't tell ahead of time how I'll do on the MCAT.

So I guess my question is how much will my undergrad GPA hurt my chances to an MD program? If all goes well in the next 2 years and I get high grades and a decent MCAT, what are my chances to an MD vs. DO?
3.3 is almost neutral, because the work you do in your postbac gets averaged into your cumulative overall GPA. You could have a 3.4+ overall, 4.0 science, killer MCAT, and a dream app cycle.

The problem is that from a 3.3 non science GPA the odds are poor that you'll succeed in science classes. Premed coursework is the graveyard of champions for those who wanted to be a doctor since birth. Assume that the prereqs will be the hardest classes you've ever taken. You might get lucky and love it. But seriously, be ready to work.

It's completely up to you how this turns out. If you go after your postbac, from day one to the last day, like your career depends on it (which it does), and you do absolutely everything possible to become a consistent and diligent student, sure, you can get A's, and sure, you can get into med school. Unfortunately what we see here all the time is that fantasy and denial and frustration take over. You're going to find out very soon if you have the discipline and focus and work ethic to get where you want to be.

BTW, if you're in California or New York or one of the other extremely competitive states, 1 year of postbac won't be enough to get the job done.

Lastly, if you don't have lots of clinical experience yet, volunteer or paid, that's a major problem. Get tons of hours this summer.

Best of luck to you.
 
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3.3 is almost neutral, because the work you do in your postbac gets averaged into your cumulative overall GPA. You could have a 3.4+ overall, 4.0 science, killer MCAT, and a dream app cycle.

The problem is that from a 3.3 non science GPA the odds are poor that you'll succeed in science classes. Premed coursework is the graveyard of champions for those who wanted to be a doctor since birth. Assume that the prereqs will be the hardest classes you've ever taken. You might get lucky and love it. But seriously, be ready to work.

It's completely up to you how this turns out. If you go after your postbac, from day one to the last day, like your career depends on it (which it does), and you do absolutely everything possible to become a consistent and diligent student, sure, you can get A's, and sure, you can get into med school. Unfortunately what we see here all the time is that fantasy and denial and frustration take over. You're going to find out very soon if you have the discipline and focus and work ethic to get where you want to be.

BTW, if you're in California or New York or one of the other extremely competitive states, 1 year of postbac won't be enough to get the job done.

Lastly, if you don't have lots of clinical experience yet, volunteer or paid, that's a major problem. Get tons of hours this summer.

Best of luck to you.

That was such a well written and thoughtful reply, thank you so much!
It was encouraging but also reinforced the seriousness and dedication required on my part.
I'm going to start the pre med courses and give it my best. The stakes are high :)
Best of luck to you also with whatever path you're on! :)
 
Hey everyone,

I've been a long time lurker in these threads going through my post-bacc phase after some poor grades as an undergrad. I thought I would briefly share my stats to inspire hope as these threads can be somewhat depressing. When I graduated from undergrad I had a cGPA of 2.99 and sGPA of 2.66. The best thing I did was realize I dug myself a hole my sophomore year and stopped taking pre-med classes, so the 2.66 was only 32 semester hours worth. I chose to stop rather than buckle down and stick with premed because I was also a serious college athlete and decided to focus on that. I know there are many college athletes who are able to focus and excel at both, but I seriously lacked the maturity to do so at 19 years old.

Anyway, after spending a couple years abroad playing basketball, I decided I was ready to come back, face my poor GPA, and make a go at med school. I did a DIY post-bacc at my state university (two years). I looked at some traditional post-bacc programs, but decided I wanted more flexibility in cramming as many math and science courses in as I could to offset my GPA. I also spent about 4 months meticulously studying for the mcat. Additionally, because I had taken so many math and science courses, I had enough prereqs to pursue a masters degree in biomedical engineering this last year, thesis and all, while I was applying to med schools. I ended up applying with a cGPA of 3.4 and sGPA of 3.65, and a 37 mcat (non-URM). Most of the advice I got was apply to lower tier MD schools and DO schools. I applied to 30 MD schools across all tiers. I ended up getting a few acceptances, and two of them to top ten schools.

Of course everyone's situation is different, so it is hard to give general advice on what route to take. Get straight A's in a post-bacc or SMP and rock the mcat seems to be a common theme, and is definitely sound advice. However, because we have low GPAs, we're already starting with a red flag, and there are plenty of applicants who have solid GPAs and good mcat scores who didn't need a post-bacc. So another piece of advice I can offer is to do something different and unique. I think a lot of the success I had was because I didn't do a traditional post-bacc program, and I was able to communicate the value of doing a post-bacc the way that I did to adcoms. Adcoms are trying to put together a class of unique individuals who come from different backgrounds and experiences, so it is not simply a numbers game. That is where I believe you can gain an advantage as a low GPA applicant. Lastly, I would definitely say don't be afraid to own your low GPA. The personal statement provides ample opportunity to discuss, if needed, why your undergrad GPA is low, and being able to maturely discuss your faults and how you've recognized and improved on those can go a long way.

I apologize for the long post, but to all of those who are thinking of climbing the GPA mountain, or to those who are currently climbing, don't be afraid and keep at it! It is easy to come across naysayers in these threads, but if you are determined you can indeed succeed. Good luck!
Hello jgrob,
I have many questions but to start: what EC's did you have? if you have a chance, please provide advice:http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/current-science-gpa-is-2-6.1088978/#post-15519736
 
Dr.MidLife I appreciate your brutal honesty as I have seen you post and respond throughout the forum. It can be tough to read and sometimes even makes me cringe at the intensity but it makes me want to try harder lol. I will be posting in this thread with my story and hopefully will get some insightful information. Granted I am merely a CC student at the moment applying for a UC it would be nice to hear what someone has to say about my situation (bad previous history at another University). ;)
 
As suggested by other a different contributer- I am adding my original thread here for advice:

I need help as I am stressed about my situation. I am nontraditional. I have a degree in business marketing and worked for 5 years before going back to school. I was in the military during the time I was getting my BS-Marketing.

I went back to college full time late Aug 2013 but received military orders where I had to W from Calc (only course I was enrolled in at the time). When I returned I took Stats, Sociology and Pol. Science with all A's to get admitted to my local state university for a 2nd degree Biochem(to complete med requirements DIY postbacc premed.)

Once I was enrolled, I got military orders again and W'd from Chem, Mol. Bio, Calc and Med. Anthropology course. I was so stressed and upset so thought I would make up for time when I returned in May.

I went a bit overboard this summer trying to make up for time and took 1 trig (recommended by student for Physics), 1 stats, 1 calc, and 1 Gen. Chem course in these last 8 weeks. Needless to say I got 1 C in Calc(5SH), B in Trig (3SH), A in Stats (3SH- behavioral and psychological stats) and B in Gen. Chem(5SH). My total is a 2.66 sGPA with these added. Courses before this:
Precalc and lab (4SH): B
College Alg and Lab (4SH): B
Bio/ Human Emphasis (3SH)(took in HS at local CC): D (retook to boost to C)
**I am counting the D from the Bio course.
Elementary Stats (3 SH): A

I am getting geared up for fall 2014 to take OChem I, Calc II and Molecular Bio, but I am concerned. I now know I made a mistake by taking way too much over a summer intercession.

In making up for time I did not consider the difficulty in time management and orienting myself to the full-time student life. When I took the 3 courses in August- I returned from military orders on Sunday and started school that Monday. When I started the summer intercession I got back on a Friday and started classes that Monday. I should also mention I am a single mother of 2 so motherly duties are always top priority.

Is my GPA too low to start as a postbacc nontraditional student on the path to MD? What advice do you have for me on my grades? I do not have a pre-med adviser and I got a 3.75 cGPA for my Marketing degree (with 1 C in all my Upper Div) and a 3.1 cGPAfor my AA-Gen Ed.
Should I only take 2 science/ math courses at a time? Should I apply to post bacc program to get proper advising? Most say they require at least a 2.8-3.0 GPA> any advice helps.
 
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My GPA is currently a 2.89.

My mark break down by year is:

1st year: 3.05
2nd year: 3.85
3rd year: 3.08
4th year (I messed up got lazy and gave up -- immaturity issues): 2.86
5th year: starting in sept

MCAT: 27R

I decided I am going to work on my immaturity issues that led me to go down from a 3.85 to a 2.86.

I hope to get some study tips for the upcoming year (I haven't been able to achieve a 4.0 in any course yet -- my highest grade was an 87), and was wondering what my chances for an SMP are?

Help would be appreciated.
 
Hello all,
I'm back on this thread to seek advice. I currently have a cGPA 3.25 and 3.0 sGPA (this is including 1 year of post-bacc work, which was a 3.75 GPA). I'm wondering if I should continue taking classes to get up to a 3.3 and 3.1, or if it really won't make a difference. Obviously the better I look the better my chances but it would take me another 4 classes to even get my GPA to move up a little. I just finished an internship and will be working full-time because they (health related job) asked me to stay for the rest of the year. I'm fairly confident about my ECS, obviously not about my GPA, and still no MCAT. Continuing post-bacc or a SMP would def cause a huge financial burden, so I guess I'm just wondering if I might have shot at a DO school or even the low tier allo schools? I'm also a CA resident which kind of makes my life suck as far as med school is concerned. Any advice? thanks everyone.
 
Hello all,
I'm back on this thread to seek advice. I currently have a cGPA 3.25 and 3.0 sGPA (this is including 1 year of post-bacc work, which was a 3.75 GPA). I'm wondering if I should continue taking classes to get up to a 3.3 and 3.1, or if it really won't make a difference. Obviously the better I look the better my chances but it would take me another 4 classes to even get my GPA to move up a little. I just finished an internship and will be working full-time because they (health related job) asked me to stay for the rest of the year. I'm fairly confident about my ECS, obviously not about my GPA, and still no MCAT. Continuing post-bacc or a SMP would def cause a huge financial burden, so I guess I'm just wondering if I might have shot at a DO school or even the low tier allo schools? I'm also a CA resident which kind of makes my life suck as far as med school is concerned. Any advice? thanks everyone.
You will need an SMP either way.... the only question is whether or not you should do the extra few classes to get to 3.3. IMO, the answer is yes. As you stand now, you have 0% shot at allo schools at all, and a low chance at low-tier DO schools.

And you should also start thinking about life outside Cali.
 
3.4 uGPA and 3.3 sGPA 35 MCAT TX resident ORM. (TMDSAS GPA with no +/- brings down sGPA to 3.1... :()

3 publications
upward trend
engineering major
top ten UG
usual clinical volunteering and shadowing (domestic and international)

Currently in SMP and applying this cycle.

1. Am I doing the right thing by taking SMP right now?

2. How are my prospects for this cycle?
 
So, I promised myself I would only post here when I could actually put my money where my mouth is and get some results to share with others. First and foremost, I just want to say that I did not really care if I ended up at a DO or MD school. Secondly, I applied to schools that had a focus on primary care because that is the field I want to go into. Yes, I'm also well aware I will change my mind at least three times if not more while in medical school. But that was more or less my goal when applying to medical school and what my personal statement was focused on.

I went to UC Berkeley. Due to family situations, lots of personal drama, and a few traumatic experiences, but mostly really bad time management, not knowing how to say no, and trying to tell myself I could handle both life and school at all once...I graduated with a 3.1 overall GPA, and a 2.87 science GPA. I had wanted to be a doctor since I was 16, I knew there was not a snowball's chance in hell I would get in with these grades, especially in California. So, I researched the hell out of SDN and applied to a Post-Bac program. I got into SFSU's program along with CSU Eastbay's program. I chose the latter due to money and I could commute from home to Hayward far more easily than from home to SF. In my post-bac program, I got a 3.756 GPA as an academic enhancer after a year. I then decided to apply to USC's MSGM program. Why? Because I have a passion for global health and I felt my application needed something extra. That was also after researching SDN a million times, reading up on low GPA stories, and being very realistic with myself. I have Dr. Midlife and robflanker to thank for that practicality.

That was probably the best decision I made in regards to getting into medical school.

While at USC, I was able to take some science classes with first year medical students and came out with A's and very few B's. I got to take various science courses that broadened my perspective on medicine and got to experience an amazing trip abroad to Panama to do a medical mission with Floating doctors. Bottom line? USC has a lot of resources to help me with my application, I took advantage of them.

Now, before I got into USC, I tried taking my MCATs the first time. Right before my exam I was right behind a car accident, and ended up having to make a statement to the sheriff because a truck hit a biker who was bleeding and had to be taken to the hospital. You'd think I would have voided that exam. I didn't. And I got a 22, but that was also because I probably did not prep well enough. That score did not get me into USC's program. Instead, I took the GREs, and got a 315 total and then got into USC. Then I got a sponsorship from Biology Scholars Program at Berkeley to do a Princeton Review online MCAT prep course. I prepped for a month before my master's program, moved, and then took my MCAT. I got a 29 the second time around.

By the time my Masters program ended, I got a 3.8 in that program. I also had enough extracurricular activities to the point where my adviser looked at my CV and said I was so set on the extras that it wasn't even funny. I volunteered, I showed leadership, and I shadowed a lot of doctors, both MD and DO, and I had a great community outreach project during my masters at USC. My goal was not to get into a top medical school, it was to be a doctor. I was very realistic when I applied. My AMCAS BCPM was a 3.14 and my overall was a 3.25. For my Masters it was a 3.6 BCPM and 3.9 overall. With a 29 MCAT, I didn't bother to apply to any high or really mid tier MD schools. I applied to schools that focused on primary care and low tier. I did both DO and MD schools. (15 DOs, 20 MDs.) My DO BCP GPA was 3.29 and for overall was 3.38. I applied as a disadvantage status due to family history and growing up on welfare with a single mother.

During this season, I had 10 interview invites. 2 were MD, including UC Davis, and 8 were DO schools. I interviewed at 5 schools, and I got into Western, NOVA, LECOM Bradenton, and Campbell. I was waitlisted at UC Davis. I was very surprised I even got a secondary and interview with my scores. I'm very grateful to even be on Davis's waitlist. That being said, I'm very happy with the schools that accepted me, and I have choices to make. I'm going to be a doctor! =D

Was it easy? No. I'm roughly 70k in debt right now. I had to break off a three year relationship during this entire process. I studied and lived in the library when I was doing my GPA comeback. Everything that Dr. Midlife and others have said holds true for the most part. It's a long a grueling process. But I went through with it because I couldn't see myself doing anything other than medicine and I let that be known in my application. I had a strong upward trend and I was great at writing and interviews. My personal statement was looked at by someone that used to do admissions at UCLA for medical school among others. Let me just say for those who have a low GPA for medical school, please explain yourself in your PS. Don't dwell on it. Don't make up excuses, but give them something to fight for. Show you overcame it and became a more mature applicant because of it. Practice for your interviews, know the school that you're applying to.

Be prepared to work your asses off for it. That's why I didn't really post here until I got my acceptances. I did not want to present with just "If I do this and that" scenarios. I wanted to actually have done what I needed to do to get to where I needed to be. And for me, that's worth it. I cannot wait to start medical school next year! (That being said, I was also okay with the fact that I'll be in debt for a good portion of my life and am currently working right now to pay some of it off. ) Moral of the story is, it will be a long and hard road. There will be times when you want to give up and say "Screw this." It was really difficult seeing some of my friends already get careers and really begin their lives, but I kept going forward. Take advantage of any help or resources you can. I met with my adviser often during my post-bac and Masters. SDN is great, and I'm so thankful to the people here, but meet with your advisers that are paid to give you good advice. Do it early. Plan early. I started planning my app for this cycle in February and already had a very rough personal statement draft. I went through roughly a dozen or more drafts. Keep on top of everything, manage your time well, and keep your head above water. There is light ahead, you just need to find the best way to reach for it.

Feel free to PM me if you ever have more specific questions about the process.
 
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So, I know that this thread particularly concerned people looking at med schools, but I thought I'd add my story.

When I was 19, I enrolled at a foreign institution and got a degree in Scandinavian Studies, studying everything in a language I had only spoken for 3 months before the program started. I finished the program, but with passing grades (US conversion something between a 2.70 and a 3.0).

Then I went to law school in that same country. My grades were better, but after only spending 3 years in a certain country, my language skills fell short of providing me with excellent grades. During my LLM, however, I was able to graduate with latin honors (equivalent to a US 4.0 according to the conversion chart).

I guess my question is this: I don't have any science prerequisites and I was wondering if a post bacc would be enough for me (if I do well) to get into a good dental school. Hell, I don't even know if my stats are good enough to get into a post bacc. If not, I guess I'll have to do it by becoming a dentist here and then going back to the US and doing the international dentist program...
 
Hello,
I don't have the greatest stats in the world 3.1c and 2.9s. I have not taken the MCAT yet and yes I am from CA. I still have a year left and do have a nice recovery trend. 1st year:3.2, 2nd year 2.85, 3rd year 3.1, 4th year ???. I am not stupid and realize that those marks will not get me in anywhere so I saved my money until I knew I at least had a chance. I figured out what I was doing wrong and changed it. Now the last 70 quarter units have averaged a 3.3-3.4. Basically I am writing to see what people would recommend in terms of getting the gpa's higher. SMP or traditional post bac. Oh I forget Biology major with an anthropology minor. I have done some soul searching and found out that medicine is really what I want, I could have called it quits after my second year with the 2.85 but I didn't and have been working my rear off ever since. Also I think I have my EC's covered. Advice please!!
 
Hello,
I don't have the greatest stats in the world 3.1c and 2.9s. I have not taken the MCAT yet and yes I am from CA. I still have a year left and do have a nice recovery trend. 1st year:3.2, 2nd year 2.85, 3rd year 3.1, 4th year ???. I am not stupid and realize that those marks will not get me in anywhere so I saved my money until I knew I at least had a chance. I figured out what I was doing wrong and changed it. Now the last 70 quarter units have averaged a 3.3-3.4. Basically I am writing to see what people would recommend in terms of getting the gpa's higher. SMP or traditional post bac. Oh I forget Biology major with an anthropology minor. I have done some soul searching and found out that medicine is really what I want, I could have called it quits after my second year with the 2.85 but I didn't and have been working my rear off ever since. Also I think I have my EC's covered. Advice please!!
1) Be honest with yourself, a nice recovery trend is not from 2.85 to 3.1. You are still significantly below average for US MD admissions ( over 2 standard deviations, if you dont know what that means, google it).

2) "I am writing to see what people would recommend in terms of getting the gpa's higher" - uh, study harder

3) You have been working you rear off to still achieve sub-par GPAs? You still need to be honest with yourself and ask if this really what you want. 3.4 is still one standard deviation below zero. Working your rear off in this world is like 3.8

4) You need to start getting good grades, 3.7+, before you start thinking about recovery plan. There is no back door to med school. Its a front door that requires good grades to get in
 
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I have been doing some research
Right, this is the "wink wink I know the secret password to get people to tell me what to do" line...
but my situation is a bit unique so I thought I would make a post on here!
...aaaaaand now you ruin everything by using the other secret password that gets you mocked because of the thousands of others who have been in exactly your situation, plus/minus the Canadian undergrad which isn't much of a difference. It actually helps you with med schools who have figured out that Canadian GPAs use a more draconian curve than in the US. (Such as UToronto's minimum 3.7 GPA for its med school.)
cGPA: 3.3 sGPA: 3.3 MCAT: 34 (12/10/12)
Go do an SMP unless you're in California or New York, in which case do a multi-year plan. Either way, don't apply MD until after you're done with the SMP.
I am considering Georgetown due to the fact that they encourage applying before you start so there is a possibility of not having to do a glide year because you get some grades to send off to schools.
That makes it sound like Gtown has (a) some control over what other med schools do, which Gtown does not, and (b) that Gtown is doing something unique (wink wink) that the other SMPs don't do. Of course Gtown wants you to apply MD just in case it works out because that makes Gtown look good. Gtown loses exactly nothing if you get accepted by an expensive, low-tier med school far far from home, instead of waiting to apply when you're most likely to have a great outcome (a public school in your home state).
However, BU MAMS seems like a great option to me as well due to the prestige, research opportunities and the connections I have there (worked there for a summer, did my shadowing there as well).
Boston has my vote here because you can apply during your 2nd year in the program and not have to go find a job or move again. Also consider Tufts, maybe Temple, maybe NYMC.
I guess my main question is if I should even be considering this being a 1 year process? I have a feeling I'm not but some advice is certainly welcomed! Thanks
You don't get to have a schedule with low numbers. You take what you can get and do the best you can. Out of the ~45,000 mostly very well qualified MD applicants every year, ~20,000 get rejected, so having a multi-year view on the process is just good math even if your numbers are good. Visit the reapplicant forum for tales of worry and woe, and to find out what the common mistakes are. And your priority should be doing whatever it takes to get into the cheapest best med school you can get into, where you'll succeed. In some cases, that's a DO school. It's never a Carib school. Being in a big fat hurry to get in somewhere/anywhere is a big fat mistake. Put together the most compelling app you can possibly produce, and then apply.

Best of luck to you.
 
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Hey all, I've done some reading through the forum and searching online regarding post bacc pre med programs and need some help. I am graduating next year and am looking for a post bacc program that: 1.) is a formal post bacc 2.) is preferably in the South and 3.) accepts graduate loans. All help is appreciated
 
Hey all, I've done some reading through the forum and searching online regarding post bacc pre med programs and need some help. I am graduating next year and am looking for a post bacc program that: 1.) is a formal post bacc 2.) is preferably in the South and 3.) accepts graduate loans. All help is appreciated
Here is a good starting place. www.google.com

Do your own f*cking HW
 
Yeah cause that's what I'm asking for is for other people to do my homework.

I haven't even begun the application cycle and won't for at least another year so my input won't be as strong as someone who has, but I hope the attitude you just indicated here does NOT make it to your interviews.
 
I haven't even begun the application cycle and won't for at least another year so my input won't be as strong as someone who has, but I hope the attitude you just indicated here does NOT make it to your interviews.
I came here asking for help and was snarky given a link to Google when I stated I already was searching online and just posted here looking through another outlet that has a lot of interaction (SDN) and somehow I'm the one with an attitude problem?
 
Hey guess what med school is like. You ask a simple question to an attending and the answer you get is "how about you do a 10 minute presentation on that topic tomorrow."

Sack up.
 
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I came here asking for help and was snarky given a link to Google when I stated I already was searching online and just posted here looking through another outlet that has a lot of interaction (SDN) and somehow I'm the one with an attitude problem?

Sorry, but you shouldn't be snarky in kind to someone who is to you. It's a good habit to get into, especially for medical school, let me assure you from all the things I have heard.
 
Yeah cause that's what I'm asking for is for other people to do my homework.
If you want to post a list of the programs you have research and identified as possibilities, and then ask people for feedback or advice on them - then thats a diff story.

Get off your ass and do some work.

And the aamc list is so out of date its pretty useless
 
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