The Pussification of training doctors...

[drusso]

http://kaiserhealthnews.org/news/medical-schools-try-to-reboot-for-21st-century/

It's official: Medical school is now less about learning hard-headed science and how to be the captain of the patient care ship and more about learning how to "get along." Graduates from this kind of curriculum will be eaten alive by hospital administrators...

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[emd123]

Let's be realistic here.

Why bother teaching them about Medicine as a "pure science" when it's more about customer service and jumping when administrators say jump to those who sign most doctors paychecks?

Really, though. Why even set them up for disappointment?

 

[SSdoc33]

"But today, says Mangrulkar, the two-plus-two model doesn’t work. For one thing, there’s too much medical science for anyone to learn in two years – and most information can be quickly accessed from a smartphone or tablet."


what....

the....

eff.......??!!?!?!?!?

 

[willabeast]

my group interviewed 5 docs recently for a position (to replace me, by the way, i am retiring soon . the person who got the job was clearly (in my mind anyway) the one who would get along best with everyone in our medical group. and when my chief told us which one was picked, the qualities noted by my chief were 1. humbleness 2. tact now if i was making the decision i would have been looking for 1. intelligence 2. good with hands. 3. experience my chief was not looking for an alpha male. two of the rejected applicants were REALLY qualified IMHO. YMMV!

 

[101N]

This isn't all bad. As an example, pilots used to be all alpha males, dam* the torpedo types who took advice from no one. The
root cause analysis of crashes revealed that this was an impediment to safety.

We are going the way of engineers and pilots.

 

[geauxg8rs]

You guys will now be
Reported to our "disruptive physician" committee.

It's amazing that everywhere in medicine, "physician" gets replaced with "provider" except for "disruptive physician." apparently they don't want to make a "disruptive provider" complaint.

It's funny how hospital administrators deal with complaints in general.
I had a patient complain of discrimination.

Hospital admin came to me with said complaint. I totally agreed with patient. I said that I discriminate every day on every patient.
To discriminate means to make a decision from the given facts.
This patient had HIV/?AIDS who wanted an ESI. Patient refuses to get CD4 and viral load testing. Will not see an ID doctor . I discriminated against putting steroids in his epidural space out of risk/benefit analysis for the patient. Just like I discriminate against putting a needle into a patient who is on plavix.

I can't wait till the wussification gets worse!

 

[Ducttape]

i dont know...
they are responding to a changing world out there, one in which the medical education method we went through is antiquated and outdated.

look at the Medical schools that are leading the charge on this. its a top 10 of Med Schools...

UM
Mayo
Penn State
Vanderbilt
NYU
UCSF
Brown


perhaps we are the dinosaurs that are out of tune and out of time figuratively and literally...

 

[willabeast]

"and men like you will go to... like the Mohicans"

 

[drusso]

Don't be fooled: There are broader politics and agendas in play. In order to control others you must make them powerless and dependent. First, create systems that strip them of formal authority. Next, impede direct action by creating competing commitments, confusing expectations, and conflicting behavioral standards. Finally, foster ignorance--literally, foster ignorance...

Once you've made everyone "equal" in status, knowledge, and authority they will be willing slaves. This is the recipe for the Pussification of our Profession.

 

[emd123]

It's amazing that everywhere in medicine, "physician" gets replaced with "provider" except for "disruptive physician."

That's a profound observation in my opinion. It's a pejorative that's apparently is reserved only for "physicians." Too harsh, too condemning a label ever to be cast upon those "providers" so gentle as to be called nurse, PA or NP. You never do hear "disruptive nurse," "disruptive PA," or "disruptive nurse practitioner," do you?

And there are plenty of badly behaved people in those professions.

It used to be that they wanted the best, brightest and most determined to go into Medicine. Clearly now, they want the most programable, such that their "policies" are never questioned by those with independent thought.

"God, please allow the stock market to rage to record heights for the next 20 years "

 

[dunecat]

God, please allow the stock market to rage to record heights for the next 20 years

Forget 20 years - it's a gamble but consider two years for stocks like BAS, OAS, WLL, DNR, EXXI, BBEP, GTE, CLR, and AREX to triple ... but oil is a slippery prospect; I gained about 20% from January to early February but I didn't want to stay 'long' as it went up too quickly.

 

[URMD]

In my eyes, this will change nothing. People complain about physician abuse, disruptive physician, etc. Yes, you will find people in any profession that exploit there autonomy and power as "leader" but this kind of solution won't change that. It will only move the power from physicians who a generally patient focused to hospital administrators and the like who don't give a **** about patients and only care about their bottom line. Yes, a team model is better I agree with that, yes personability and fit has ALWAYS been important but for bloody sake, let the physicans do what they were trained to do and LEAD the teams, not simply be a cog in the engine like any other so called "provider"

 

[314117]

Yes it's not really important to learn medicine anymore. It's more important to learn how to get along with nurse administrators.

 

[jettavr6]

Don't be fooled: There are broader politics and agendas in play. In order to control others you must make them powerless and dependent. First, create systems that strip them of formal authority. Next, impede direct action by creating competing commitments, confusing expectations, and conflicting behavioral standards. Finally, foster ignorance--literally, foster ignorance...

Once you've made everyone "equal" in status, knowledge, and authority they will be willing slaves. This is the recipe for the Pussification of our Profession.

Regardless of the politics, at the end of the day when someone is ill, they will be searching for a physician to help them. Medical training, worldwide, gives one a significant amount of power that cannot be removed. Every attempt to subjugate physicians in the broad sense has failed. Employed physicians have even unionized and gone on strike at a few major institutions.

If physicians felt that they were equal in status, most would leave the profession and go on to learn a different trade. The reality is that we have a superior knowledge base and skill set which cannot be easily replaced under current conditions.

 

[Ducttape]

i do agree with the above posts, but... i dont believe these programs are gearing physicians to view others as equals.

my gestalt at looking at the various teaching programs is that the focus rather is on ensuring that the physician is able to work effectively as the captain of the team, and do it in a manner that is conducive towards managing the entire team.

we are not Captain Bligh's on our separate HMS Bountys. In the future, i suspect we will be more like Commander Aubreys on the HMS Sophie.


and emd, you dont hear the terms "disruptive nurse," "disruptive PA," or "disruptive nurse practitioner." rather, you hear the terms "fired nurse", "unemployed PA", and "fired NP"...

 

[SSdoc33]

i do agree with the above posts, but... i dont believe these programs are gearing physicians to view others as equals.

my gestalt at looking at the various teaching programs is that the focus rather is on ensuring that the physician is able to work effectively as the captain of the team, and do it in a manner that is conducive towards managing the entire team.

we are not Captain Bligh's on our separate HMS Bountys. In the future, i suspect we will be more like Commander Aubreys on the HMS Sophie.


and emd, you dont hear the terms "disruptive nurse," "disruptive PA," or "disruptive nurse practitioner." rather, you hear the terms "fired nurse", "unemployed PA", and "fired NP"...

regardless of the maritime allusions, it takes an act of god to fire a NP or PA where i work.

 

[geauxg8rs]

i do agree with the above posts, but... i dont believe these programs are gearing physicians to view others as equals.

my gestalt at looking at the various teaching programs is that the focus rather is on ensuring that the physician is able to work effectively as the captain of the team, and do it in a manner that is conducive towards managing the entire team.

we are not Captain Bligh's on our separate HMS Bountys. In the future, i suspect we will be more like Commander Aubreys on the HMS Sophie.


and emd, you dont hear the terms "disruptive nurse," "disruptive PA," or "disruptive nurse practitioner." rather, you hear the terms "fired nurse", "unemployed PA", and "fired NP"...

I remember plenty of disruptive nurses when I was a resident. They had "power" over us little people. If you complained to your PD you would go nowhere and were told to get along with them.

 

[bedrock]

In private practice, those type of PAs, NPs, and RNs get fired because we don't put up with their attitude/poor performance. So they go find jobs at a hospital/health system/university where the rest of you work and you have to suffer with them.

I currently make as much in private practice as the hospital-based pain physicians, but I would accept a pay cut to still be able to run my practice and control my schedule, and not bow and scrape before some bitter nurse administrator or a hospital executive who got stoned in college while I worked my ass off to become a physician.

 

[Louisville04]

we are not Captain Bligh's on our separate HMS Bountys. In the future, i suspect we will be more like Commander Aubreys on the HMS Sophie.


and emd, you dont hear the terms "disruptive nurse," "disruptive PA," or "disruptive nurse practitioner." rather, you hear the terms "fired nurse", "unemployed PA", and "fired NP"...

I hope we are more like Captain Picard and not Captain Kirk

In private practice, those type of PAs, NPs, and RNs get fired because we don't put up with their attitude/poor performance. So they go find jobs at a hospital/health system/university where the rest of you work and you have to suffer with them.

But even in these systems, they keep track of how many patients, procedures, billing you do. If you are a "rainmaker," they will listen to you to make changes if it effects the bottom line.

 

[101N]

Don't be dissing Captan Kirk you whipper snapper. He's like Chuck Norris of outer space.

 

[drusso]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/medical-college-entrance-exam-gets-an-overhaul-1429092002

"To that end, a large new section—one quarter of the test—covers psychology, sociology and the biological foundations of behavior. Official review material includes concepts such as social inequality, class consciousness, racial and ethnic identity, “institutionalized racism and discrimination” and “power, privilege and prestige.”

You see where this is going, right?

 

[emd123]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/medical-college-entrance-exam-gets-an-overhaul-1429092002

"To that end, a large new section—one quarter of the test—covers psychology, sociology and the biological foundations of behavior. Official review material includes concepts such as social inequality, class consciousness, racial and ethnic identity, “institutionalized racism and discrimination” and “power, privilege and prestige.”

You see where this is going, right?

Political propaganda in place of medical knowledge?

 

[geauxg8rs]

It will make the new round of docs ready for socialized medicine

 

[ampaphb]

Recognizing that I am a dinasaur, I still have faith that the majority of my reasonable patients still prefer the doc who got them better over the doc who is a nice guy.

 

[Disciple]

Well, that's the trick in pain management, isn't it? Getting mostly "reasonable" patients.

 

[Ducttape]

Recognizing that I am a dinasaur, I still have faith that the majority of my reasonable patients still prefer the doc who got them better over the doc who is a nice guy.

but they are more likely to sue the guy that even makes them better than the doc who they like/love.

 

[emd123]

but they are more likely to sue the guy that even makes them better than the doc who they like/love.

Lol true!

 

[emd123]

Well, that's the trick in pain management, isn't it? Getting mostly "reasonable" patients.

Reasonableness is inversely proportional to the daily morphine equivalent dose.

 

[ED50]

To be fair this has been going on for quite a while. When I was in the market for a med school four years ago every school had some class about social awareness, interdisciplinary education, doctors in society etc. Personally I think it's less about socializing docs and more of a marketing pitch to students coming out of college. When looking at five middle of the line med schools its very hard for college students to differentiate based on their hard science curriculum... because its all the same and it encompasses 90% of your daily academic activities. Instead the school says it has a class that will help you become a leader the healthcare system of tomorrow! When in school, all my classmates realized very quickly that it was simply a pitch and there was very little value in the class, but by then you are in the school and you have to play the game.

I don't know if anyone read this yet but interesting none the less. Pretty worthless to test hopeful docs on social studies. Although it will get them ready for the 8 hour exams in med school and residency

http://fortune.com/2015/04/16/mcat-test-doctors-longer/?xid=timehp-popular

 

[emd123]

To be fair this has been going on for quite a while. When I was in the market for a med school four years ago every school had some class about social awareness, interdisciplinary education, doctors in society etc. Personally I think it's less about socializing docs and more of a marketing pitch to students coming out of college. When looking at five middle of the line med schools its very hard for college students to differentiate based on their hard science curriculum... because its all the same and it encompasses 90% of your daily academic activities. Instead the school says it has a class that will help you become a leader the healthcare system of tomorrow! When in school, all my classmates realized very quickly that it was simply a pitch and there was very little value in the class, but by then you are in the school and you have to play the game.

I don't know if anyone read this yet but interesting none the less. Pretty worthless to test hopeful docs on social studies. Although it will get them ready for the 8 hour exams in med school and residency

http://fortune.com/2015/04/16/mcat-test-doctors-longer/?xid=timehp-popular

Lol A sales pitch. Exactly. What a farce.