The sign your d-school is way overcrowded...ahem BU (and USC)

[budentite]

Graduating people who have not performed a single RCT on a real, live person is doesn't meet my definition of adequately prepared. Nor does 6 units total of fixed prosth (crowns + veneers + inlay/onlays + post/cores), or just 2 successful extractions.

BU's students don't complain, because in the end the low grad reqs are convenient - it's less work, less stressful. And if you're specializing like most of BU's students, the (lack of) clinical experience in DS doesn't matter. But for general dentists, it's not possible to practice independently upon graduating from BU. Even their own Dr. McManama tells eveyone doing general to do a GPR or AEGD because BU doesn't adequately prepare their students clinically.

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[hifive]

This is how I look at it.

Properly trained? I feel like every dental school will teach you good enough to become an okay dentist. However, I feel like you make your own decision whether you want to be a competitive dentist. Furthermore, you will know and realize what you are lacking, so you know what to fix. If you don't fix when you already know what you are missing, then you are just a big slacker who likes to blame your dental school lol

I might be biased because I come from military. I am used to hearing "Be happy with what you have and complete the mission no matter what happens" I personally think that it doesn't really matter where you go as long as you try your best. If your dental school provides better education and many opportunities, then good for you. If not, then you just gotta hustle your ass and keep practicing until you become competitive.

Go Hoos

You are right that being properly trained relies on the individual's determination, but sometimes the school becomes the limiting factor. When a school has low grad requirements, not enough patients, low standards of quality checks... etc. They become the limiting factor no matter how smart or determined the individual is.


now imagine:

below average student + sucky school (limiting factor) = poorly trained = DDS/DMD

smart student + sucky school (limiting factor) = poorly trained = DDS/DMD


its like stoich in chem, no matter what the equation if a limiting factor is present the rxn will not run to completion.


but if you take:

below average student + good clinical school = properly trained = DDS/DMD

if a school puts in higher standards for quality checks, provides a diverse array of patients, the student is forced to become better as that is the only way to get that end product: DDS/DMD.

 

[omnipoDent]

You are right that being properly trained relies on the individual's determination, but sometimes the school becomes the limiting factor. When a school has low grad requirements, not enough patients, low standards of quality checks... etc. They become the limiting factor no matter how smart or determined the individual is.


now imagine:

below average student + sucky school (limiting factor) = poorly trained = DDS/DMD

smart student + sucky school (limiting factor) = poorly trained = DDS/DMD


its like stoich in chem, no matter what the equation if a limiting factor is present the rxn will not run to completion.


but if you take:

below average student + good clinical school = properly trained = DDS/DMD

if a school puts in higher standards for quality checks, provides a diverse array of patients, the student is forced to become better as that is the only way to get that end product: DDS/DMD.

 

[Jackson-Ave-Dental]

You are right that being properly trained relies on the individual's determination, but sometimes the school becomes the limiting factor. When a school has low grad requirements, not enough patients, low standards of quality checks... etc. They become the limiting factor no matter how smart or determined the individual is.


now imagine:

below average student + sucky school (limiting factor) = poorly trained = DDS/DMD

smart student + sucky school (limiting factor) = poorly trained = DDS/DMD


its like stoich in chem, no matter what the equation if a limiting factor is present the rxn will not run to completion.


but if you take:

below average student + good clinical school = properly trained = DDS/DMD

if a school puts in higher standards for quality checks, provides a diverse array of patients, the student is forced to become better as that is the only way to get that end product: DDS/DMD.

In my opinion if said student really was smart, they would succeed no matter where they go. They might not progress as fast as they'd like but I believe that at the very end, they'll be where they want to be.

Malcolm Gladwell would agree!

 

[dentpin2]

Out of curiosity then, if an applicant was only admitted to BU (or USC) because they applied late or something, would they be better off reapplying next year if they had improved their application? Or would you guys recommend they go to whereever they got in?

 

[Kentuckylover]

Out of curiosity then, if an applicant was only admitted to BU (or USC) because they applied late or something, would they be better off reapplying next year if they had improved their application? Or would you guys recommend they go to whereever they got in?

You gotta do what you want to do lol

Did you like the school? Is money not an issue? Then, go. Why not lol You are an adult. I think you make up your own decision.

I don't want to sound cocky or anything, but I graduated from number one or two public undergraduate and I bet my stats are higher than many people who come on this web site. I was accepted to a good amount of dental schools although didn't get into my first choice, Columbia. It is funny to see when people from undergraduates that I have never heard before come on this website and talk about which dental school is better or not, because they have a couple acceptances. Just be happy with what you get and what you choose. If you had to go to a school where you didn't want to attend, because it was your only acceptance, then sucks for you. You are the one who got into one school and decided to attend, not us, so suck it up lol

Do I think USC is the best school? No. Do I think that I would be happy at USC? Yes.

Go to school where you will have less debt and be happy.

Think about it. Go HOOs and go JEREMY LIN.

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

Out of curiosity then, if an applicant was only admitted to BU (or USC) because they applied late or something, would they be better off reapplying next year if they had improved their application? Or would you guys recommend they go to whereever they got in?

That student probably shouldn't have applied to USC or BU if they had no interest in going. Then it would not have been a dilemma.

 

[budentite]

In my opinion if said student really was smart, they would succeed no matter where they go. They might not progress as fast as they'd like but I believe that at the very end, they'll be where they want to be.

Malcolm Gladwell would agree!

That's a really dangerous and reckless approach to dental education. Is it really fair for the patient to have to suffer because of a specific school's deficiencies?

When you or your children need dental treatment, let your BU classmates take care of them - would you like the person who took an impression in stone, or the person who crowned the wrong tooth, or who's patient needed sutures after a simple prophy, or the one who never did a root canal on a real person?

 

[Duriel]

the person who took an impression in stone

what lol

 

[dantemac]

That student probably shouldn't have applied to USC or BU if they had no interest in going. Then it would not have been a dilemma.

This is honestly the best advice on here. Don't apply to schools you think you have written off as safety schools or subpar schools. You may have to end up going to one or choosing it over better schools....all head games you play with yourself.

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

This is honestly the best advice on here. Don't apply to schools you think you have written off as safety schools or subpar schools. You may have to end up going to one or choosing it over better schools....all head games you play with yourself.

Someone agrees! I've been shot down before for such advice. It makes no sense to throw away application fees and even travel/lodging fees for a school you have no intention of going to.

 

[thewobblytooth]

don't apply to schools you aren't interested in! then again, I did the shotgun approach too

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

don't apply to schools you aren't interested in! then again, I did the shotgun approach too

It's a tough balance sometimes. I don't disagree with the concept of safety schools if safety schools are schools you choose to attend because you didn't get in where you wanted to. You may have wanted to stay in state but maybe you got waitlisted/rejected at your state school but got accepted at the private school you were interested in. It happens.

But there are some people on this forum who apply to schools just because the school's avg GPA and DAT either matches their stats or are lower than their stats (BU, NYU, USC, LECOM, etc). They don't think about loans and debt or other factors. When they get accepted to just these schools, they freak out (about debt or location for example) and contemplate re applying next cycle.... Could have avoided the problem and stress by not applying in the first place.

 

[Bereno]

It's a tough balance sometimes. I don't disagree with the concept of safety schools if safety schools are schools you choose to attend because you didn't get in where you wanted to. You may have wanted to stay in state but maybe you got waitlisted/rejected at your state school but got accepted at the private school you were interested in. It happens.

But there are some people on this forum who apply to schools just because the school's avg GPA and DAT either matches their stats or are lower than their stats (BU, NYU, USC, LECOM, etc). They don't think about loans and debt or other factors. When they get accepted to just these schools, they freak out (about debt or location for example) and contemplate re applying next cycle.... Could have avoided the problem and stress by not applying in the first place.

Thats true, but... hindsight is always 20/20. If I did it again would I have done it differently? Oh yeah. lol

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

Thats true, but... hindsight is always 20/20. If I did it again would I have done it differently? Oh yeah. lol

Yeah, I see that. Looking back as an applicant, I can understand being worried about getting in and trying to maximize one's chances.

I still believe "you should apply to these sub-par schools" advice for "mediocre applicants" should be killed. Just because you find yourself unattractive, it doesn't mean you should settle for something that you think is unattractive

 

[Bereno]

Yeah, I see that. Looking back as an applicant, I can understand being worried about getting in and trying to maximize one's chances.

I still believe "you should apply to these sub-par schools" advice for "mediocre applicants" should be killed. Just because you find yourself unattractive, it doesn't mean you should settle for something that you think is unattractive

Good point. I might add though that its always hard to be totally unbiased when judging one's self. When I was applying I had no clue how competitive I was, so I applied to the whole range of schools. I guess what I am saying is that my best advice to anyone is to see where your stats sit, and shoot for those schools. (all else equal that is)

 

[namotu1]

I haven't been on student doctor.net for quite some time now, and I heard a few dental schools had recently opened, and wanted to hear how many new one's there actually were. Anyway this thread caught my eye. Having graduated from SC, I find it really crazy what is said regarding the school. Working as the only dentist in my first practice after dental school I could not have been more prepared for clinical practice from day 1. I do agree that the price is crazy, but as far as clinical training I'd put it up against any, and, I mean ANY dental school in the country. That being said, If you are a pre-dent, and don't want to spend the money, go to an inexpensive state school, do 5-10 crowns, 1-2 RCTs, and then do a GPR. You'll be fine either way.

My point is don't believe everything you hear about USC. I never had problems getting patients or chairs to treat them in. There are people who get rubbed the wrong way by the very regimented and strict faculty, however, they have excellent instructors who really just want to prepare each graduate for the rigors of private practice.

What everyone should be worried about is all of these new dental schools opening. 5 new dental schools in the west have opened since around 2001 with more to come. Things are going to be pretty interesting out there as time goes on.

 

[Seamonkey Doc]

I haven't been on student doctor.net for quite some time now, and I heard a few dental schools had recently opened, and wanted to hear how many new one's there actually were. Anyway this thread caught my eye. Having graduated from SC, I find it really crazy what is said regarding the school. Working as the only dentist in my first practice after dental school I could not have been more prepared for clinical practice from day 1. I do agree that the price is crazy, but as far as clinical training I'd put it up against any, and, I mean ANY dental school in the country. That being said, If you are a pre-dent, and don't want to spend the money, go to an inexpensive state school, do 5-10 crowns, 1-2 RCTs, and then do a GPR. You'll be fine either way.

My point is don't believe everything you hear about USC. I never had problems getting patients or chairs to treat them in. There are people who get rubbed the wrong way by the very regimented and strict faculty, however, they have excellent instructors who really just want to prepare each graduate for the rigors of private practice.

What everyone should be worried about is all of these new dental schools opening. 5 new dental schools in the west have opened since around 2001 with more to come. Things are going to be pretty interesting out there as time goes on.

Great insight. As for the bolded part, I'm surprised more people don't talk about this on here.

 

[Timpson]

Great comment. USC has many bad qualities but there are also lots of things I wouldn't want to change around here. It definitely is a unique school, as well as the university as a whole.

I haven't been on student doctor.net for quite some time now, and I heard a few dental schools had recently opened, and wanted to hear how many new one's there actually were. Anyway this thread caught my eye. Having graduated from SC, I find it really crazy what is said regarding the school. Working as the only dentist in my first practice after dental school I could not have been more prepared for clinical practice from day 1. I do agree that the price is crazy, but as far as clinical training I'd put it up against any, and, I mean ANY dental school in the country. That being said, If you are a pre-dent, and don't want to spend the money, go to an inexpensive state school, do 5-10 crowns, 1-2 RCTs, and then do a GPR. You'll be fine either way.

My point is don't believe everything you hear about USC. I never had problems getting patients or chairs to treat them in. There are people who get rubbed the wrong way by the very regimented and strict faculty, however, they have excellent instructors who really just want to prepare each graduate for the rigors of private practice.

What everyone should be worried about is all of these new dental schools opening. 5 new dental schools in the west have opened since around 2001 with more to come. Things are going to be pretty interesting out there as time goes on.

 

[hifive]

I haven't been on student doctor.net for quite some time now, and I heard a few dental schools had recently opened, and wanted to hear how many new one's there actually were. Anyway this thread caught my eye. Having graduated from SC, I find it really crazy what is said regarding the school. Working as the only dentist in my first practice after dental school I could not have been more prepared for clinical practice from day 1. I do agree that the price is crazy, but as far as clinical training I'd put it up against any, and, I mean ANY dental school in the country. That being said, If you are a pre-dent, and don't want to spend the money, go to an inexpensive state school, do 5-10 crowns, 1-2 RCTs, and then do a GPR. You'll be fine either way.

My point is don't believe everything you hear about USC. I never had problems getting patients or chairs to treat them in. There are people who get rubbed the wrong way by the very regimented and strict faculty, however, they have excellent instructors who really just want to prepare each graduate for the rigors of private practice.

What everyone should be worried about is all of these new dental schools opening. 5 new dental schools in the west have opened since around 2001 with more to come. Things are going to be pretty interesting out there as time goes on.

I dont agree with the first bolded sentence, I would definitely not match USC's clinical against ANY school, I can give you a lot of examples but I think will just stop at detroit.


The second sentence I would definitely agree, it's something I have addressed in other threads, the new school expansion rate is far more than I could have imagined, but without a collective approach through the ADA we cannot do anything about it.

 

[toothdr5]

I agree with budentite. BU is a costly school and they should do a lot more for their students.

I agree that all dental schools should mentor their students, give them the tool to do well and make them see their role as a healthcare provider, vs a money making machine....the practical side of the field is not discussed/practiced enough at most schools but it seems BU is especially bad.

 

[toothdr5]

I realize that in the end, an average dentist from USC or BU will be as competent as an average dentist from any other school. But some people want to know the ugly aspects about schools they are interested in.

exactly. say the whole truth not just what is popular to say.

 

[budentite]

I agree with budentite. BU is a costly school and they should do a lot more for their students.

I heard about students who made their bf to do or their instructor(!!) to do their work for them and then got marked on that!

And exactly if such people become colleagues of ours what does that say about our profession?

I agree that all dental schools should mentor their students, give them the tool to do well and make them see their role as a healthcare provider, vs a money making machine....the practical side of the field is not discussed/practiced enough at most schools but it seems BU is especially bad.

How about the student from the '09 class who's BF was also her clinical instructor!!! Pretty F'd up when your clinical instructor previoiusly asked you to marry him, but you turned him down, only to continue to schedule your appointments with said instructor, who does all the work for you, signs off on anything you bring to him. He proposes for a second time and this time you finally say yes.

Both used each other, and both are happy. But it doesn't speak too highly of dental education or academic integrity at BU. And just a little bit unprofessional.

 

[babak49]

what brand of dental material used in american dental schools?