There are currently 37k EM physicians: can the market support 20k more?

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Lord Humongus

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I did some number crunching based on AAMC's data:

https://members.aamc.org/eweb/Dynam..._prd_key=41FEE42C-6D95-4E8D-AC8A-1173945902A4

In 2013 there were 37,000 active EM physicians as per table 1.4 in the above PDF. I'm not sure whether this means EM boarded docs or simply docs working in the ED regardless of training, and I'm also not sure what if any impact this distinction would have on the following calculations.

Per that same PDF, there were 1763 EM PGY1 spots in 2013, compared to 1620 in 2010 and ~1320 in 2005. Let's be optimistic and assume the growth in spots levels out at an average of ~1800 for the foreseeable future.

Assuming an average career length of 30 years, the EM workforce at 1800/year would reach a steady state size of 54,000 compared to today's 37,000. Of course, it's very unlikely residency spots will stop at 1800, which is why I used 20k as a nice round number for the net increase in my thread title.

Is this sustainable? Obviously nobody can answer that question, but what is the "gut feel" from you attendings out in the workforce already? I'm a bit concerned because I feel like EM is particularly vulnerable to oversaturation, for the following reasons:

*There are only so many shifts to go around, and EM docs don't create their own demand the way surgeons, derms, etc do.

*EM docs don't own patients. They get paid a lot only because they are in demand and they are scarce. Remove the scarcity and you remove the high compensation as well. A surgeon can thrive by distinguishing himself and drawing in patients even in saturated areas where other less established surgeons struggle. An EM doc's fate is tied inextricably to the calculus of bodies vs shifts, which is entirely beyond his individual control.

* The possibility of a death spiral: as supply rises, hourly rates fall. Unlike surgeons operating 12+hrs on OR days, most EM docs are not maxed out and so take on more shifts to compensate for the lower per shift income to maintain lifestyle. As a result, supply rises still more, hourly rates fall more, more shifts to compensate, and so on.

I realize I am being neurotic, but that's just my personality to be honest, and since I haven't yet pulled the trigger on the $300k tuition and 7+ years of my life, I see this as doing due diligence on various specialties I am interested in. EM is one of those specialties, and one of the things I'd like to be able to do is have the flexibility to work blocks of highly paid contract/locums work with extended breaks to enjoy that income. Easy to do with lots of shifts chasing few bodies, not so easy in the inverse situation.



Any thoughts appreciated!

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I have zero worries about this issue. Many EDs in smaller towns will still take any warm body. There is still tons of room/demand for EPs in most cities in the country. The trend in my area is building more and more EDs, all of which need to be staffed. Take a look at the job listings- plenty of jobs out there.
 
We are a long ways off. The biggest thing that could hurt our specialty is a major curbing of ER visits...unlikely to happen. Creating too much supply isn't going to happen soon.

Your 37k number is in line with ABEM docs. There is probably twice that to be displaced.

Further key is supporting organizations such as ACEP which help show the value in board certification and the value of actual emergency medicine....

Our jobs are secure for sometime.... As pointed out above, the trend is increasing ER beds and facilities...
 
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I was sitting in the charting station the other day on my current EM block, and all the attendings were having a kvetch sesh about how they all wanna work less but they need more peeps. Nice place too, scribes, PAs, good nurses. Not some ghetto hole. So, I think as supply increases, these older guys are gonna pare down their hours. Even so, 30 years is long as an average career in EM. 30 is probably close to the max, really. Dudes bouncing at 50 for that sweet sweet admin life.
 
I did some number crunching based on AAMC's data:

https://members.aamc.org/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?Action=Add&ObjectKeyFrom=1A83491A-9853-4C87-86A4-F7D95601C2E2&WebCode=PubDetailAdd&DoNotSave=yes&ParentObject=CentralizedOrderEntry&ParentDataObject=Invoice Detail&ivd_formkey=69202792-63d7-4ba2-bf4e-a0da41270555&ivd_prc_prd_key=41FEE42C-6D95-4E8D-AC8A-1173945902A4

In 2013 there were 37,000 active EM physicians as per table 1.4 in the above PDF. I'm not sure whether this means EM boarded docs or simply docs working in the ED regardless of training, and I'm also not sure what if any impact this distinction would have on the following calculations.

Per that same PDF, there were 1763 EM PGY1 spots in 2013, compared to 1620 in 2010 and ~1320 in 2005. Let's be optimistic and assume the growth in spots levels out at an average of ~1800 for the foreseeable future.

Assuming an average career length of 30 years, the EM workforce at 1800/year would reach a steady state size of 54,000 compared to today's 37,000. Of course, it's very unlikely residency spots will stop at 1800, which is why I used 20k as a nice round number for the net increase in my thread title.

Is this sustainable? Obviously nobody can answer that question, but what is the "gut feel" from you attendings out in the workforce already? I'm a bit concerned because I feel like EM is particularly vulnerable to oversaturation, for the following reasons:

*There are only so many shifts to go around, and EM docs don't create their own demand the way surgeons, derms, etc do.

*EM docs don't own patients. They get paid a lot only because they are in demand and they are scarce. Remove the scarcity and you remove the high compensation as well. A surgeon can thrive by distinguishing himself and drawing in patients even in saturated areas where other less established surgeons struggle. An EM doc's fate is tied inextricably to the calculus of bodies vs shifts, which is entirely beyond his individual control.

* The possibility of a death spiral: as supply rises, hourly rates fall. Unlike surgeons operating 12+hrs on OR days, most EM docs are not maxed out and so take on more shifts to compensate for the lower per shift income to maintain lifestyle. As a result, supply rises still more, hourly rates fall more, more shifts to compensate, and so on.

I realize I am being neurotic, but that's just my personality to be honest, and since I haven't yet pulled the trigger on the $300k tuition and 7+ years of my life, I see this as doing due diligence on various specialties I am interested in. EM is one of those specialties, and one of the things I'd like to be able to do is have the flexibility to work blocks of highly paid contract/locums work with extended breaks to enjoy that income. Easy to do with lots of shifts chasing few bodies, not so easy in the inverse situation.



Any thoughts appreciated!

Not too concerned, seems like here are too many patients and not enough docs. This will only get worse once the baby boomers start to get old and sick. Now, when they get old and die in 20-30 years, maybe be will have a surplus in EM docs. I'll bet not though.
 
Assuming that we're not completely unrepresentative...the fact that almost every practicing BCEP on this forum intends to cut back on hours or retire in the next 5-15 years bodes well for your future job prospects.
 
My cold calls while working. Daily emails for coverage. Daily txt to cover shifts from atleast 5 different staffing agencies would say saturation is ways away.

Only way saturation happens is if FSEDs are deemed illegal + Most Hospitals do not require Boarded ED docs

I hope to be semi retired and work just b/c I want to in 5 yrs before 50.
 
Given the nature of this job, I suspect an average career length of 30 years is far too optimistic.. 20 years may be too optimistic.
 
don't count on a 30-year career unless something drastically changes...
 
Well this is very encouraging. Out of all the specialties I've considered EM is currently my top choice. Only Ortho seems "better" from a sheer coolness perspective vis a vis the awesome procedures, but it obviously doesn't have the broadness of scope. Throw in the short residency and flexibility to move around without being tied down to a practice you've spent years building, and EM is hard to beat. It's definitely good to hear we're a long ways away from path/rads territory.
 
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