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Thinking about dropping out of medical school now....

Discussion in 'Allopathic' started by auburnO5, Jun 30, 2012.

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  1. auburnO5

    auburnO5

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    I won't be happy with anything less than $200k, MAYBE I could settle for $150k.

    And the way I see it, by the time I'm through with residency, regardless of what field I go into (not interested in surgery) that I will be making less than $150k thanks to our glorious presidente. I'm over halfway done but at this point I think it makes the most sense for me to go ahead and quit.
  2. OREdwardsJR

    OREdwardsJR Your favorite nightmare

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    notsureifsrs?
  3. JackShephard MD

    JackShephard MD

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    Well, at least you can know you're providing a valuable service to society.
  4. MrBeauregard

    MrBeauregard Soon-to-be PGY-1

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    I would if I were you.
  5. circulus vitios

    circulus vitios

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    Dang ol Obamer. He's ruinin' health care, he's fixin to take 'er jerbs and he's a gonna take 'er guns! I ain't havin' it! Git Obamer outta office!
  6. auburnO5

    auburnO5

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    I will.
  7. mimelim

    mimelim Vascular Surgery

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    How anyone could accurately predict how physician salaries are going to change due to pending legislation is beyond me. All of the 'sky is falling' people are really starting to annoy me.
  8. Marcus Brody

    Marcus Brody Already has the grail.

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    If anything Obamacare is good for physician salaries, especially if you're not in the upper echelons of medicine. For the marginally competent and even incompetent it buys a little more time in the sun, and protection via the monopoly. If all you care about is money, and not patients or the welfare of your fellow man, you should be 100% for Obamacare. It favors the monopolist and the corporatist, and we are all monopolists and corporatists now, eh Comrades!? :thumbup:
  9. bigkahunaburger

    bigkahunaburger

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    Some salaries will go down, some salaries will go up. Bottom line, we need more PCPs now and they need to be compensated better, we need to stop spending SOOOOOO much money on specialists it's as easy as that. For what one dermatologist makes we could pay 3 happy family practice physicians...you see how this isn't quite sustainable? And yes, the dermatologist will still make much more than a pcp even in the future. And I know, people will say "well dermatologist's had to be at the top of their class yadayadayada" I understand that, and they do deserve more compensation but at some point it just gets ridiculous and disturbing
  10. fahimaz7

    fahimaz7

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    1300 posts and an incoming ban for trolling. Eck!

    On a side note, PCP's in Canada make about 300k.
  11. namethatsmell

    namethatsmell

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    View attachment pic.jpg

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2012
  12. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    Is this in pesos? That number is inaccurate...
  13. notbobtrustme

    notbobtrustme Crux Terminatus

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    Doctor salaries should go up, not down, with the ACA. For sure, PCPs are going to be reimbursed better starting 2014. On top of that, nearly every patient now should have some sort of insurance, meaning that the total number of reimbursements are going to be higher. With a higher workload, hospitals will need to offer better compensation for physicians in order to keep them on since we won't have a corresponding increase in physicians for quite some time while the number of patients is going increase fairly drastically in 2014.
  14. Slack3r

    Slack3r Sicker than your average

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    Give it a rest.

    And OP, didn't you get 260+ on Step 1? Plastics/derm ftw.
  15. FunnyCurrent

    FunnyCurrent Ripe Prince of Westwood

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    I challenge you think of alternatives to this hypothesis. There is no way anyone knows what will happen to physician salaries.
  16. mTOR

    mTOR | veritas.vos.liberabit |

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    And not a single tear is shed. At this point in your training, you're still pretty much worthless to the entire field.

    [​IMG]
  17. colbgw02

    colbgw02 Delightfully Tacky

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    I'm surprised and disappointed by the rationality of the responses to the OP. I came here expecting better.


    http://*********************/instances/400x/20545477.jpg
  18. just one

    just one

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    See ya............no sweat off my back
  19. Dr Love

    Dr Love

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    They tuk 'er jobs! Tuk 'er jubs!
  20. fahimaz7

    fahimaz7

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    That's what the dean of Alberta's medical school told us a few weeks ago. He was our dean before now.
  21. dr zaius

    dr zaius Lowly Intern

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    Pretty sure it's closer to 200k in Canadian dollars (read: bacon) in some provinces, which makes it like 190k in real money. Pretty far from 300k.
  22. Shnurek

    Shnurek

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    And don't forget Canada's income taxes are higher so its more like $100k after taxes.
  23. thomprya

    thomprya

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    Moment of silence guys.... The profession just lost a shooting star....
  24. sanityonleave

    sanityonleave Adrenaline Junkie

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    Dude, give it a rest -- as one of your classmates, you sound like an ass. I understand needing to vent (I post plenty of questionable things on SDN), but you're not even attempting to be constructive. Salaries, especially at the top end, are likely to go down. That said, the odds are very against salaries dropping to the levels you claim. In general, the ACA should expand coverage while (likely) decreasing reimbursements, so while there will undoubtedly be some net decrease (realistically), it's not as bad as all that.

    In general, I'd say if you really don't like medicine / if it's not something you're passionate about, it might be worth talking to friends/family/etc about dropping out. It's a hell of a lot of work and hours (even post-residency, for the most part) for something you don't really love. If you'd really like a good job and steady income, I think there are much easier ways. That said, that's a decision only you can make.


    I'll let the OP answer that, but that doesn't jive with the school rumor mill -- but whether SDN or the school rumor mill is a more reliable source is anyone's guess.
  25. Gut Shot

    Gut Shot

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    I was looking at jobs in my own field in Manitoba last year, and the starting salary was $293K Canadian. For someone fresh out of fellowship that's a solid 93K over what you will find in the US (private), and about 133K (academic).

    In most of the provinces primary care does better in Canada than the US. There are drawbacks, to be sure, but it's not a bad deal.
  26. Gut Shot

    Gut Shot

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    Pics or it didn't happen.
  27. JP2740

    JP2740

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    There has been no comment or information on how much salaries will be expected to be affected?
  28. michaelrack

    michaelrack All In at the wrong time SDN Advisor

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    A majority of the newly insured will have Medicaid
  29. auburnO5

    auburnO5

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    Lulz.... All around
  30. tide11189

    tide11189

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    Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
  31. dr zaius

    dr zaius Lowly Intern

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    Absolutely. $190k for family practice is also an example of excellent pay.

    Canada is just pretty sweet in general.
  32. KinasePro

    KinasePro Das it mane

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    It's bizarro world up there. Family med pays well and General & Orthopaedic surgeons can't find jobs. A poster on the surgery forum said the market is so bad in Canada that some surgery residents are switching into IM & family med.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2012
  33. Shnurek

    Shnurek

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    Canada:
    0–29% (federal)
    4-24% (provincial)
    4.95% Canada Pension Plan (CPP)
    1.78% Employment Insurance (EI)

    So at $190,000 you would be at the highest tax brackets.

    There is really no one answer because it depends if you are single or not, what province you live in, what city you live in, etc. etc. but I just threw out $100,000 as a very rough estimate. It might be more like $110,000 though.
  34. Whiskeypunch

    Whiskeypunch

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    You are making my brain hurt as usual.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_tax

    Remember just because the highest marginal rate has a value of X%, that doesn't mean all your money is taxed at X%.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP

    Tax as a % GDP 2012

    Canada: 32.2%
    USA: 26.9%

    It's not really that big of a difference when you figure in all the extra benefits you get from your taxes in Canada, like health insurance (potentially 10's of thousands of money saved) and lower education costs (if you have kids/affects how much loan money you have to borrow).

    BUT IT GETS MORE INTERESTING.

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/taxes_per_person/

    If you look at the average tax burden per person:

    Canada: $12,789
    USA: $13,097

    Only a $308 difference.

    BTW the guy proposing we look at tax comparisons this way is Professor Gregory Mankiw, a staunch conservative republican economist and chair of economics at Harvard.

    Finally people histrionic about physician salaries are hilarious. There are no physicians in my family making under 500k/yr. Granted, they are not the rule, but no physicians I know are wallowing in poverty.

    Salaries might come down slightly for specialists, but really it'll be fine. More insured patients = more $$$ no matter how you slice and dice it.

    OP, please quit medicine. If your analytical skills are this weak when it comes to economics I'd hate to see you try and parse the medical literature.
  35. Shnurek

    Shnurek

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    I know how progressive taxes work and I never stated its not progressive but its good to show others. Now you really didn't calculate a figure.
  36. Whiskeypunch

    Whiskeypunch

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    http://lsminsurance.ca/calculators/canada/income-tax

    Have fun. That's without ANY deductions other than the basic personal tax credit. 190k would be 116-132k in take home pay before you factor in all the deductions that will significantly lower your tax burden.

    That took 5 seconds of playing with google to find.
  37. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    If you look at any of the bazillions of comparison charts covering physician salaries (usually in the articles claiming doctors are paid too much) you typically see the US sitting as a high outlier and canadia lumped towards the middle. Do a Google search. Its also a little strange for your dean of medicine to bring up PCP salary in front of the class but whatever. I doubt he has any sources on the matter that Google doesn't have
  38. JackShephard MD

    JackShephard MD

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    lol, why are pre-DO students posting the allopathic forum now?
  39. Whiskeypunch

    Whiskeypunch

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    Because I'll be your boss some day I want to get to know you.
  40. JackShephard MD

    JackShephard MD

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    Dumb.
  41. Dave89

    Dave89 E pluribus pluribus

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    Do you like medicine? If so, don't quit. There are more options than just the US - US MDs are highly valued in many countries. In general docs make good money the world over, and besides what are your options at this point? Start college again to get a degree in economics?

    If it's really about the money, medicine is your best bet. Assuming you're innovative enough to make it in business/finance/banking etc., you will figure out a way to make money in medicine. E.g. concierge practice.
  42. Gut Shot

    Gut Shot

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    You would be in the highest brackets, but those are still marginal rates. 190K gives and individual about 180K in taxable income, which works out to an effective federal rate of 21%.

    Also consider that you don't have to pay health insurance premiums. It's expensive, to be sure, but I don't think it's quite as bad as you originally made it out to be.
  43. Shnurek

    Shnurek

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    That link does not include the 4.95% CPP and 1.78% EI but yes I also used that link. I just didn't post it because it wasn't sufficient enough.

    So 4.95% + 1.78% = 6.73% and 6.73% of $190,000 is $12,787.

    Therefore.... your final take home pay will be $116,000 - $12,787 = $103,213 in the worst case scenario. Hmmm that seems awfully like my original figure of $100,000 but thanks for your pompous tone.
  44. JackShephard MD

    JackShephard MD

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    I don't think he truly wants to quit, just frustrated.
  45. nowanmd

    nowanmd

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    The thing we should all be infuriated about is that health care reform did not address tort reform or frivalous medical malpractice suits- perhaps this is due to the lobbying efforts of the American Trial Lawyers Association.
  46. Lokhtar

    Lokhtar Dreaming about the lions

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    Well tort reform is a moral issue - it doesn't save much money in terms of healthcare.


    I support tort reform because it's the right thing to do.
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2012
  47. Dave89

    Dave89 E pluribus pluribus

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    Hard to pass tort reform when lawyers are the most represented profession in Congress (I think - I may be wrong). :mad:
  48. KinasePro

    KinasePro Das it mane

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    This is debatable, though. The policy wonks say it won't lead to significant savings but this guy and a handful of EM physicians I've spoken with estimate that >50% of the tests they order are defensive medicine. The truth is probably somewhere in-between, but I'd bet that the wonks are underestimating.
  49. Kevin Baker

    Kevin Baker

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    I wouldn't worry. We're getting 30 mln + new paying customers, are facing an aging population with a lot of docs retiring, and students have an average debt load close to $200k. I only see physician salaries going up.
  50. SoundofSilver

    SoundofSilver

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    Really hoping that the massive influx of newly insured patients as part of the ACA will accelerate the push for greater funding/expansion of residency positions. On the flip side, I can easily imagine this huge increase in patients will cause a new push for greater autonomy by mid-level providers like NP's and PA's. Unfortunately, I'm guessing the latter option is more likely.

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