Thinking of quitting residency

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Even though I highly doubt your assertion, I'll go a step further and say that you can not validate your statement with anecdote. Common logic would tell you that hospitals are more inclined to hire those who have hospital training through completion of a residency, than they are to hire a PharmD who will likely need extensive training to perform at the same level of his/her colleagues.

We post on these forums the get the best advice possible, not to hear 1 in a million stories of the few people who have managed to slip through the cracks. Hospitals PREFER residency trained Pharmacists. Period!


I'm sure residency trained pharmacists are preferred, it isn't always possible. I work in a state with more hospitals than we have residency programs. I got a job in a hospital as a clinical pharmacist without any residency. Every pharmacist I worked with did not have a residency and were considered "new grads". If you don't know what you are talking about, please keep your opinions to yourself.

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If you are good looking = no residency required.

How do you think I got my job?
 
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The problem with this residency is that I find myself contemplating quitting on a daily basis. And that moment of reflection actually brings me relief. I almost come into work with the feeling of "okay, **** all over me today and let's just make it happen." It's a negative workplace that doesn't offer much opportunity for personal growth, and it's definitely affecting my physical and mental health.
 
You work? I figured you were independently wealthy at this point.

I am well off compared to most pharmacists but hey, it is easy money and great benefits!
 
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posts like these make me so happy that i made over 130k last year right out of school and did NOT do a residency and managed to escape retail just a few weeks ago. major success =D
 
Is the unhappiness just with the specific elective you're on right now? You could be unhappy with your 6 weeks with oncology/id/internal med, but absolutely love your amb care portion. Pharmacist in each setting will have their own culture.
 
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I probably don't know squat about the OP's residency situation, but hey take a look at the many P4 students who really wanted residency but didn't get matched or the hospital staff pharmacists who wanted to be clinical specialists but didn't have the chance because they never were residency-trained to land that kind of positions...So, I say, suck it up and get over it!
 
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in all seriousness, i think you should suck it up and finish your residency. it would SUCK to explain to any potential employer why you didnt finish it. i can only imagine how much working 70+ hrs a week suck. i dont even want to work 40 hours a week. but i think it is in your best interest to finish your residency.
UNLESS you have a retail job lined up that you know you can tolerate, basically dont even try the big three. and also youre sure youre okay with retail as your long term plan.
 
Since everyone is positing their anecdotes, I will express mine.

I live in major metropolitan city with ~12 hospitals in 5 systems. I had occasion to call all of these directors yesterday (for something completely unrelated) and also ask the last time they hired a non-residency trained new grad for a full time position. The answer - 6 years ago. Every full time staff pharmacist in our city in the last 5 years was either PGY1 trained or had previous experience. BTW that was the time when the biggest system openly added PGY1 or experience to the required qualifications of job postings.

I can vouch for this in the San Francisco Bay Area, as well.
 
Screw residency. Many of my classmates in massachusetts working in hosptial straight up without residency. They're the smart ones paying back loans! For any new grads out there or soon to be grads, talk to your hospital preceptors first! Some of them may be able to get you a job without wasting 2 years of your life working just as hard as a normal pharmacist but at 1/3 wage.

Also, there is a company called CPS that sets a lot of new grads up for hospital jobs all over the country.
http://www.cpspharm.com/
 
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Screw residency. Many of my classmates in massachusetts working in hosptial straight up without residency. They're the smart ones paying back loans! For any new grads out there or soon to be grads, talk to your hospital preceptors first! Some of them may be able to get you a job without wasting 2 years of your life working just as hard as a normal pharmacist but at 1/3 wage.

Also, there is a company called CPS that sets a lot of new grads up for hospital jobs all over the country.
http://www.cpspharm.com/


:thumbup::thumbup: !!
 
Is the unhappiness just with the specific elective you're on right now? You could be unhappy with your 6 weeks with oncology/id/internal med, but absolutely love your amb care portion. Pharmacist in each setting will have their own culture.
The thing about this program is that at any time I have 8 different bosses, each with their own unique expectations (with no uniformity between). Trust me, it's not limited to just one rotation.
 
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The thing about this program is that at any time I have 8 different bosses, each with their own unique expectations (with no uniformity between). Trust me, it's not limited to just one rotation.

Exactly why I left the peds hospital during training. Had no problems with most of the bosses like regular inpatient, IV, ER and the administration. Once I got to NICU, I was assigned to this neurotic/borderline OCD boss who would flip out if I did something my own way rather than following her way. She wrote me up for the way I put a label on a product (something as simple as putting a label on the left side of the bag instead of the right side of the bag.) Or one time I was drawing up oral syringe doses, I decided one day I was going to sort the labels by drug, pull all the drugs I needed and stack the labels under the drug bottles instead of pulling drug bottles one at a time and having to get up from the chair.

It seems that the main thing that gets me in trouble is that I'm the type of person who likes to come up with my own procedure and my own way of doing things. Instead of getting rewarded for doing things in a way I believe to be more efficient and more organized, I get written up for not following protocol/procedure.
 
Pretty unrelated but I am so thankful I didn't end up matching.

Some days I think shoot what if I was in a residency right now working 70 hours a week and still having projects to work on outside of it. No thanks. I really do think I was meant for retail
 
Sparda, I think in a NICU, an OCD supervisor is a pretty good thing to have. All patient care environments are zero-tolerance when it comes to mistakes, but NICU is even moreso. Why not just follow her procedure?
 
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Sparda, I think in a NICU, an OCD supervisor is a pretty good thing to have. All patient care environments are zero-tolerance when it comes to mistakes, but NICU is even moreso. Why not just follow her procedure?

I don't think the way you apply a label to a product is really important other than applying it neatly. If it's upside down, right side up, all the nurse has to do is turn their head or flip the bag over.

I get her OCD about pulling all the products, you could accidentally grab the wrong one if you have 20 products out on the bench. The issue is, the NICU pharmacy is very small and the product storage area is not the same as the production area, so having to get up and squeeze by someone's chair to grab something every 5 minutes gets annoying.

Plus logging everything before you make it saves a lot of time instead of logging as you go along.
 
It makes sense for label consistency so the nurses always look I the same place and can potentially catch errors we miss.

Consistency is key.
 
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So we should operate under the assumption that the nurses are ******s?

That's one way to say it.

Consistency is important, especially in a high risk area.
 
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It seems that the main thing that gets me in trouble is that I'm the type of person who likes to come up with my own procedure and my own way of doing things. Instead of getting rewarded for doing things in a way I believe to be more efficient and more organized, I get written up for not following protocol/procedure.

People aren't coming up with the rules to make your life difficult. These rules have been come up with, after decades of experience, because they are the SAFEST way to do things. Especially in a high risk situation such as NICU. Honestly, your work ethic scares me. Not wanting to wash your hands in the IV room after touching a pen (which is one of the easiest ways germs spread.) And refusing to follow safety rules as simple as putting the label on the right side of the bag, instead of the left side of the bag, something that shouldn't take you any extra time, and makes nurses lives easier (which means they can do their job more safely.) Why should the nurse have to look all over the bag for the label (and possibly multiple nurses, if the bag is hanging between shifts), when everyone's time could have been saved by putting the label in the right place to begin with? And while I totally sympathize with wanting to save time by grabbing multiple items at the same time, this is a big cause of errors, the time and inconvenience saved, is not worth the lives that have been lost from errors made by doing this.

It is really good that you have initiative & that you try to think of better ways to do things, but before you implement those things you think up, you need to talk to others to see if they've been tried before, and if there is a reason why they have been rejected.

**fixed typo**
 
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Deal with it. You can do anything for a year. If the people you work with are a-holes, just put your head down, do the work, and ignore them.

Residency sucks while you're in it but it'll be worth it in the end.

Talk to your RPD though if you're concerned about the learning opportunity/component.

I have to kinda laugh about your complaint re: 14 hour days. Meh. Suck it up.
 
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Deal with it. You can do anything for a year. If the people you work with are a-holes, just put your head down, do the work, and ignore them.

Residency sucks while you're in it but it'll be worth it in the end.

Talk to your RPD though if you're concerned about the learning opportunity/component.
Already did. His answer was a lot of waffling. I'm fine with keeping my head down; I just don't want to wind up at the end without a certificate.

I have to kinda laugh about your complaint re: 14 hour days. Meh. Suck it up.
We can't all be unicorns. ;)
 
Finish what you started.

If you don't finish, you will have put a black mark on your future employment prospects with hospitals.
Even retail companies will look at your decision to quit residency with skepticism. I know if I was a hiring manager I would wonder if you would quit my position, too, when the going gets tough.

Its one year not the rest of your life. Plus, you only have about 8 months left.
 
Already did. His answer was a lot of waffling. I'm fine with keeping my head down; I just don't want to wind up at the end without a certificate.


We can't all be unicorns. ;)

Do your Co residents feel the same?

If the residency is accredited, it has to meet the ASHP requirements. I'm sure your RPD knows this. I would be very specific about which objectives you feel are not being met due to lack of opportunity.

It's not about being a unicorn. Don't get me wrong, I hate doing 14 hour days and then going into a 24 hour call shift after my team has admitted new patients to the cap, but it is what it is and I try to make the best of the learning experience.

If you feel like you have a legit reason to be concerned (ie lack of learning) then absolutely try to address it- professionally of course.
Do you guys get advisers assigned to you? People you can talk to other than your RPD?
 
Back on topic:

OP, I feel your pain. I hated my PGY-1 for many of the same reasons you hate yours. I was miserable and left work every day wanting to quit, but I stuck it out anyway. At the time, I planned to stay in the same city where I did my residency, and I knew that if I quit residency, I'd essentially be blacklisted from all other hospitals in the city - that's what happened to a pharmacy school friend of mine who quit his residency. (Also, I'm just a stubborn bastard.) I stuck it out, I got my certificate, and life is pretty sweet.

I do know people who didn't do residencies and got jobs at hospitals, but they're at small hospitals in rural areas. If you think you'd enjoy doing a job like that, then maybe you'll be OK without a residency. But if you have a different career path in mind, tough it out.
 
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Already did. His answer was a lot of waffling. I'm fine with keeping my head down; I just don't want to wind up at the end without a certificate.


We can't all be unicorns. ;)
I think I need to reiterate what someone else said. Review all of the ASHP standards and make sure you feel as though they are being met. Then, review the Duty hour policy and make sure you are keeping track of yours. If either are in violation, talk to your RPD about how you feel the program might be lacking. They can't really retaliate on that with a withheld certificate because you can document and report it to the ASHP. I am not saying that you should try to blackmail them into changing, but you may find that there actually is a problem or your program meets all the standards and you are dealing with the same thing than hundreds of other PGY1s are dealing with this year.
 
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I found this website after I googled "I want to quit my residency," and found a lot of medical residency threads.

My pharmacy residency isn't working out. I'm easily putting in 70+ hours a week for a third of a pharmacist's wage, and I'm still not getting everything done that they expect. The other residents are in pretty similar boats, but they don't have pets, let alone spouses, so they don't have much to focus on but work.

I'm genuinely considering quitting. The residency focuses on generating work credit, and not on learning, so effectively I'm an underpaid and overworked new pharmacist. My biggest fear is making it to the end and finding out I didn't "pass."

If I had known it was going to be this crappy, I would have just gone straight to Publix instead.

I interviewed a number of pharmacists (from retail, closed-door and hospital settings) when hiring a part-time pharmacist at my business. I ended up hiring the hospital-experience pharmacist because of their experiences from residency. Quitting a big investment (such as residency) doesn't look good unless there is a compelling reason as to why you quit. What I recommend you do is have a talk with your director. You need to address your concerns before simply quitting without trying to resolve the problem. When problems arise, in any area of life, communication is king...
 
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"P.S. I have a wife and kid, have to keep track of my work hours so we don't violate the rules, and still completed PGY1, so I think I understand some of where you are at."

FYI, having a wife/kids is NOT the same as having a husband/kids.
 
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I think I need to reiterate what someone else said. Review all of the ASHP standards and make sure you feel as though they are being met. Then, review the Duty hour policy and make sure you are keeping track of yours. If either are in violation, talk to your RPD about how you feel the program might be lacking. They can't really retaliate on that with a withheld certificate because you can document and report it to the ASHP. I am not saying that you should try to blackmail them into changing, but you may find that there actually is a problem or your program meets all the standards and you are dealing with the same thing than hundreds of other PGY1s are dealing with this year.
I'll consider doing this. I spoke with my director today while working in one of our clinics, and he basically let me know that I'm the only resident with a "needs improvement" score (and I had a LOT, all from the same preceptor). I don't think my co-residents are really shooting that far ahead of me. When I found this out, though, it was enough for me to make the decision to pursue other employment. I'll be sending out apps soon.
 
I'll consider doing this. I spoke with my director today while working in one of our clinics, and he basically let me know that I'm the only resident with a "needs improvement" score (and I had a LOT, all from the same preceptor). I don't think my co-residents are really shooting that far ahead of me. When I found this out, though, it was enough for me to make the decision to pursue other employment. I'll be sending out apps soon.

How many preceptors do you have reviewing you? It would seem that if its only 1 particular preceptor scoring you badly, then you could make a case with the director that there is some personal animosity there.
 
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How many preceptors do you have reviewing you? It would seem that if its only 1 particular preceptor scoring you badly, then you could make a case with the director that there is some personal animosity there.

+1. I also suggest the following:

1. Ask some of your other preceptors for feedback on the areas where this person gave you a Needs Improvement. After they give you their assessment, tell them that another preceptor (you don't need to say who) gave you a Needs Improvement in that area and you were wondering if that's accurate. It could be that they agree with this person; it could also be that this preceptor just likes to pick on people.

2. Talk to this preceptor and try to clear the air. First, tell them that if you've done anything to offend or upset them, it was unintentional and you sincerely apologize. (I do not think you deliberately did anything to this preceptor, but it could be you accidentally said/did something that rubbed them the wrong way.) Then, ask them to give you some constructive suggestions on how to improve. If they give you suggestions, then they really do want to help you improve.

3. If they blow you off, talk to your RPD again and explain the steps you've taken to get more feedback on how to improve and to mend fences with this preceptor. This is information your RPD needs to have. If a preceptor has a habit of singling out residents for harsh criticism or isn't interested in giving constructive feedback, then (s)he probably shouldn't be a preceptor anymore. Your RPD can take this info into account when scheduling you for the rest of the year and at your evaluations.

Good luck!
 
I appreciate the advice. I spoke to the RPD at length, and addressed the idea that I was being singled out by that preceptor. Nothing will be done. Just waiting to get confirmation I can jump ship and then I'm giving my notice. Might write an article. This residency is really sub-par. I might contact ASHP, but I might be happier just leaving it all behind me.
 
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You're quitting because 1 preceptor out of (unknown amount) doesn't like you? Please tell me that's not your number one reason for quitting.
 
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"P.S. I have a wife and kid, have to keep track of my work hours so we don't violate the rules, and still completed PGY1, so I think I understand some of where you are at."

FYI, having a wife/kids is NOT the same as having a husband/kids.
How about we acknowledge a couple of things here. First, I said "some of where you are at" because I was accepting that my situation was not exactly like the OP's. I will also acknowledge that even though we both hold full time jobs, my wife and I hold different perspectives on parenthood. You should acknowledge that not all men and women are the same and to say that being a wife is universally harder than being a husband (though my wife is awesome) is sexist at best.


I appreciate the advice. I spoke to the RPD at length, and addressed the idea that I was being singled out by that preceptor. Nothing will be done. Just waiting to get confirmation I can jump ship and then I'm giving my notice. Might write an article. This residency is really sub-par. I might contact ASHP, but I might be happier just leaving it all behind me.

While I am disappointed that any resident would have to leave their PGY1 under these circumstances, I wish you well, hope this decision does not hinder your ability to find work, and hope you find a job that better fits your career and life goals.
 
"You should acknowledge that not all men and women are the same and to say that being a wife is universally harder than being a husband (though my wife is awesome) is sexist at best."

Call it whatever you like, it's an immutable FACT that wives of moderate and lower means, do more far more work than men. Better yet, ask you wife if she thinks she does less work than you.

PS- You sound like an ungrateful/entitled husband to pull the "sexist" card.:rolleyes:
 
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PharmyOfNone,
I understand what you are going through because I went through it three years ago. I got on here to get advice, and I got a lot of the same responses. Career suicide, you'll get blacklisted, suck it up, it can't be that bad........
I did end up quitting and guess what -- I'm soooooo glad I did! I have an awesome job in a hospital doing mostly clinical work. The residency that I quit has had residents quit every year since I left (and even a few years before me, which should have been a red flag at the time).

I can't say that everything will turn out wonderful if you quit, but I can say that it wasn't career suicide and that there are clinical jobs that don't require a residency, although they might be getting harder to come by. I wish you good luck with your decision. Feel free to PM me.
 
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"You should acknowledge that not all men and women are the same and to say that being a wife is universally harder than being a husband (though my wife is awesome) is sexist at best."

Call it whatever you like, it's an immutable FACT that wives of moderate and lower means, do more far more work than men. Better yet, ask you wife if she thinks she does less work than you.

PS- You sound like an ungrateful/entitled husband to pull the "sexist" card.:rolleyes:
Except as a dual FT income household, even on my resident salary I wouldn't classify us as moderate or lower means. Again, you seem to try to classify me and my family without knowing anything about us. I actually just called my wife and asked your question (I did have a better reason to call) and we had a good discussion about the topic. It doesn't matter what she said because whatever I tell you (other than what you expect) will be just hearsay. This could be a really long discussion, but as I don't know about your family and you don't know about mine there is really no point. So I leave you with two things. First, I have seen some pretty deadbeat/pitiful moms in every income bracket come through my work (though not as many as the dads). However, enough to make your "fact" not so immutable. Maybe wives are more likely to do a greater share of the work than husbands but exceptions certainly exist. Second, I acknowledge that I do not know who in our marriage does more work, but the act of keeping up with that information is not beneficial to our marriage. We do what needs doing and neither would be able to do it all without the other.
 
"Second, I acknowledge that I do not know who in our marriage does more work......".

If you truly don't know the answer, then the answer is your wife.

And you didn't share your wife's answer to my question of who does more work. But then you really didn't need to.;)
 
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This is how you know who does more work in a marriage: compare each other's salary and the person with the highest salary does the most work.
 
This is how you know who does more work in a marriage: compare each other's salary and the person with the highest salary does the most work.

PLEASE stay SINGLE FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
PLEASE stay SINGLE FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow you're an idiot. You think the family would benefit if the highest paid spouse just quit their job? PLEASE GET A DIVORCE
 
The message is clear: OP needs to get a divorce.
 
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