*~*~*~*Tips for Entering your "Work and Activities" in AMCAS*~*~*~*

[sciencebooks]

Hello there!

Having outlined my activities and preparing to write descriptions of each, it's time to come up with a plan for a little challenge I thought I might face. 2 years into university, I converted from one major religion to another. Throughout my time studying, I have significant activities with each (started a sports league, university organizations, volunteerism, experience abroad, event planning, teaching, etc.). None of my experience with either has been of the preaching/ministry type. I feel like seeing activities with one religious tag and then activities with another might come across as a red flag (though with the dates, they may be able to deduce what happened).

I didn't want to start any trouble/touch on any emotions, but I suppose I will be outright in that I converted from Christianity to Islam. The specifics matter because another one of my significant experiences was through competitive cheerleading (years of competing myself, plus volunteerism and employment) but now that I wear a scarf, new people are usually very much surprised when I tell them this -- not in a judgmental way, but just that it's unexpected.

How should I present this to avoid a big red flag? Should I outright add a note in my first activity in the second category along the lines of "During the summer between second and third year..." or?

Please, any suggestions. As I mentioned, I do not wish for any theological arguments or hard feelings. Thank you!

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[TheWeeIceMan]

Quick question. When I first began clinical volunteering, I split time between two departments. I didn't really think much of it at the time, but one of the departments (ICU) wasn't really what I would feel comfortable calling "clinical experience" as LizzyM defines it. Can I simply list my time in this department as non-clinical community service, and my time in the other department as clinical? Would this look odd? Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

Quick question. When I first began clinical volunteering, I split time between two departments. I didn't really think much of it at the time, but one of the departments (ICU) wasn't really what I would feel comfortable calling "clinical experience" as LizzyM defines it. Can I simply list my time in this department as non-clinical community service, and my time in the other department as clinical? Would this look odd? Thanks!

How far away were the patients in ICU? I would think listing ICU as "non-clinical" would be very odd. God love 'em but some of those ICU patients are a clinical experience is you get within 30 feet of them.

 

[Clumpofstuff]

Hello Helpful people
I have a question:
1. I am working in a lab that I started working in in Fall 2010. The initial lab job was through an Undergraduate research program. I then worked in the lab over summer 2011 on a fellowship funded by my school through HHMI and other sources. I continued this year under a independent study class through my university. My question is do I put this all under one activity or separate it because the credit/money received was from different places?

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

How far away were the patients in ICU? I would think listing ICU as "non-clinical" would be very odd. God love 'em but some of those ICU patients are a clinical experience is you get within 30 feet of them.

Basically, I was as close as you could get to the patients without actually going into their rooms. Most of the time I was just coordinating family visits, while doing the occasional jobs that the nurses/doctors thought up. I guess the reason I ask is that I don't want to look like I'm trying to make the experience something it wasn't.

 

[LizzyM]

In the ICU, the families are as needy, or more needy than the patients themselves and it takes a lot of time and empathy and tissues to keep them from going over the edge. If you are in an ICU setting interacting with families, it is legit to call it clinical....

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

In the ICU, the families are as needy, or more needy than the patients themselves and it takes a lot of time and empathy and tissues to keep them from going over the edge. If you are in an ICU setting interacting with families, it is legit to call it clinical....

Thanks LizzyM! I will list it as clinical. Not sure what I would do without SDN to answer my questions...

 

[Catalystik]

Having outlined my activities and preparing to write descriptions of each, it's time to come up with a plan for a little challenge I thought I might face. 2 years into university, I converted from one major religion to another. Throughout my time studying, I have significant activities with each (started a sports league, university organizations, volunteerism, experience abroad, event planning, teaching, etc.). None of my experience with either has been of the preaching/ministry type. I feel like seeing activities with one religious tag and then activities with another might come across as a red flag (though with the dates, they may be able to deduce what happened).

I didn't want to start any trouble/touch on any emotions, but I suppose I will be outright in that I converted from Christianity to Islam. The specifics matter because another one of my significant experiences was through competitive cheerleading (years of competing myself, plus volunteerism and employment) but now that I wear a scarf, new people are usually very much surprised when I tell them this -- not in a judgmental way, but just that it's unexpected.

How should I present this to avoid a big red flag? Should I outright add a note in my first activity in the second category along the lines of "During the summer between second and third year..." or?

Just as we expect med students to be accepting and tolerant of all people regardless of background, most adcomms can be trusted to be the same, at least in my part of the world (Midwest). Unfortunately, there are rare outliers who might decide, inappropriately, to grill you about something that has nothing to do with your med school candidacy. It's your choice to mention your conversion, or not, realizing that if you do so you open the door to further questions.

As to the issue of listing organizations backed by differing religious groups, I don't think you'll stand out as much as you think you will in our society where children can be raised by parents of two different religious backgrounds, when college is a place to explore new ideas, and where students may join groups to support their friends, and not only to establish their own identity. Personally, I see no Red Flag to worry about. The religious tag you give to an entry should not make a difference so long as the activity demonstrates a characteristic desirable in a future physician.

 

[Catalystik]

I am working in a lab that I started working in in Fall 2010. The initial lab job was through an Undergraduate research program. I then worked in the lab over summer 2011 on a fellowship funded by my school through HHMI and other sources. I continued this year under a independent study class through my university. My question is do I put this all under one activity or separate it because the credit/money received was from different places?

You can list all of it as Research, and in a single space since it was in the same lab. You can mention the Fellowship in the same entry, or if it was competitive, discuss it under Awards/Honors/Recognitions. The class credit aspect will be apparent from your transcript. If you started off as a paid postion, mention that in the narrative.

Alternatively, you could divide the experience into additional Research entries, if the project you worked on was distinctly different with each phase, so you'd have plenty of room to discuss them.

 

[sciencebooks]

Just as we expect med students to be accepting and tolerant of all people regardless of background, most adcomms can be trusted to be the same, at least in my part of the world (Midwest). Unfortunately, there are rare outliers who might decide, inappropriately, to grill you about something that has nothing to do with your med school candidacy. It's your choice to mention your conversion, or not, realizing that if you do so you open the door to further questions.

As to the issue of listing organizations backed by differing religious groups, I don't think you'll stand out as much as you think you will in our society where children can be raised by parents of two different religious backgrounds, when college is a place to explore new ideas, and where students may join groups to support their friends, and not only to establish their own identity. Personally, I see no Red Flag to worry about. The religious tag you give to an entry should not make a difference so long as the activity demonstrates a characteristic desirable in a future physician.

Very good to hear. I just know I get strange reactions sometimes, but as long as it doesn't seem to come off as a red flag on the application, I'm not against clearing up any confusion in an interview setting.

Also, is this an appropriate place to list all of our ECs for suggestions on how to reach 15 (i.e., which ones to combine, etc.)?

Thank you for your answer!

 

[Catalystik]

Also, is this an appropriate place to list all of our ECs for suggestions on how to reach 15 (i.e., which ones to combine, etc.)?

That would be outside of the scope of this thread, but I've seen it done in the main PreMed Allo Forum.

 

[DAPI]

I'm sure these have been covered, but I am having a hard time finding answers when searching the thread.

1) Listing hrs/wk does not seem to be mandatory in the actual box. Do you think I should always list hours there or is okay not to list hours if they are included in the description - especially when you are grouping things?

2) If you have activities that were only during the school year can you still say you started it in Sep 2008 and ended in May 2012 even if you did not work summers - just make it known in the description? How do you list hours for something like this? Average hours over the four years (all 365 days) or average the hours for just the academic year?

3) If you are the president of a club senior year, should you also include in the description that you were a member freshman through junior year? In the actual start/stop dates would you list it to cover all four years or just senior year?

4) Does this look appropriate for an activity titled "Saxophonist"? Do I need different contacts listed for each or is one that can vouch for most of them okay? I'm not really sure about listing stuff from 1999 (4th grade ) either. For something like this I should leave the actual hrs/wk box blank because its so variable?

X College Pep-Band: Saxophonist
4 hrs/wk September to November each year (2008-2011)

X Symphony: Principal Saxophonist
3.5 hrs/wk September 2006 to April 2007
3.5 hrs/wk February 2006 to April 2006

X Youth Symphony: Saxophonist
2.5 hrs/wk September 2005 to May 2006
2.5 hrs/wk September 2002 to January 2003

Private Saxophone Lessons
0.75 hr/wk July 2005 to April 2007
0.75 hr/wk June 1999 to August 2004

Self Practice
1 hr/wk September 2008 to present
6 hr/wk July 2005 to August 2008
2 hr/wk November 2004 to June 2005
6 hr/wk June 1999 to August 2004

**The activity has gaps because of an illness that is made known in my PS so hopefully AdComs will not hold that against me**

5) Am I getting a little neurotic?

 

[Clumpofstuff]

You can list all of it as Research, and in a single space since it was in the same lab. You can mention the Fellowship in the same entry, or if it was competitive, discuss it under Awards/Honors/Recognitions. The class credit aspect will be apparent from your transcript. If you started off as a paid postion, mention that in the narrative.

Alternatively, you could divide the experience into additional Research entries, if the project you worked on was distinctly different with each phase, so you'd have plenty of room to discuss them.

Thanks and Yeah the project was different each time

 

[Tots]

I am gonna offer my opinion but since I am applying at the same time as you take it with a grain of salt.

I'm sure these have been covered, but I am having a hard time finding answers when searching the thread.

1) Listing hrs/wk does not seem to be mandatory in the actual box. Do you think I should always list hours there or is okay not to list hours if they are included in the description - especially when you are grouping things?

2) If you have activities that were only during the school year can you still say you started it in Sep 2008 and ended in May 2012 even if you did not work summers - just make it known in the description? How do you list hours for something like this? Average hours over the four years (all 365 days) or average the hours for just the academic year?

I listed hours/week during the school year and made it clear in the description that the activity was only during the academic year.

3) If you are the president of a club senior year, should you also include in the description that you were a member freshman through junior year? In the actual start/stop dates would you list it to cover all four years or just senior year?

Was never president of a club but I had something similar. I explained how I progressed from member to greater roles and included dates from the beginning to the end.

5) Am I getting a little neurotic?

Do you even have to ask?

 

[Catalystik]

1) Listing hrs/wk does not seem to be mandatory in the actual box. Do you think I should always list hours there or is okay not to list hours if they are included in the description - especially when you are grouping things?

2) If you have activities that were only during the school year can you still say you started it in Sep 2008 and ended in May 2012 even if you did not work summers - just make it known in the description? How do you list hours for something like this? Average hours over the four years (all 365 days) or average the hours for just the academic year?

3) If you are the president of a club senior year, should you also include in the description that you were a member freshman through junior year? In the actual start/stop dates would you list it to cover all four years or just senior year?

4) Does this look appropriate for an activity titled "Saxophonist"?
a) Do I need different contacts listed for each or is one that can vouch for most of them okay?
b) I'm not really sure about listing stuff from 1999 (4th grade ) either.
c)For something like this I should leave the actual hrs/wk box blank because its so variable?

X College Pep-Band: Saxophonist
4 hrs/wk September to November each year (2008-2011)

X Symphony: Principal Saxophonist
3.5 hrs/wk September 2006 to April 2007
3.5 hrs/wk February 2006 to April 2006

X Youth Symphony: Saxophonist
2.5 hrs/wk September 2005 to May 2006
2.5 hrs/wk September 2002 to January 2003

Private Saxophone Lessons
0.75 hr/wk July 2005 to April 2007
0.75 hr/wk June 1999 to August 2004

Self Practice
1 hr/wk September 2008 to present
6 hr/wk July 2005 to August 2008
2 hr/wk November 2004 to June 2005
6 hr/wk June 1999 to August 2004

**The activity has gaps because of an illness that is made known in my PS so hopefully AdComs will not hold that against me**

5) Am I getting a little neurotic?

1) Either way is fine, so long as your actual degree of involvement is accurately expressed. Personally, for shadowing and other irregular activities, I like to see a summary of total hours in the narrative regardless, but that is only an n=1 opinion.

2) Some adcomms will prefer that you divide the time involvement out over the entire year of 52 weeks. I think it's fine to do it the way you described, but to be absolutely sure you aren't misinterpreted, besides stating that the time involvement was during school terms (or that you had no summer involvement) in the narrative, it would be nice it you could also give the activity a title that gets the point across sooner, like "Biology Club Member/3 academic years (or somesuch).

3) This is done in various ways. If you list it with all 4 years of involvement, don't label it Leadership, rather put it under Other and call it "XXXXX Club Membership" but mention the leadership role in the narrative. Alternatively, split out the Leadership component, especially if it is your only leadership, and list the dates you were an officer in the second listing only. Lastly, you could list it only under Leadership, with the dates of the officership only, but then in the narrative mention the other dates and description of involvement that led to the leadership role.

4a) One is fine, that knows you best, and could attest to your dedicaion.
b) It's fine to list a date from the beginning, but don't fill in the hours per week. In your narrative, there's no need to be extremely specific about what happened long ago. Cover all that with some general description and get more specific about what happened in the college years, including maybe ranges for time of involvement. You don't need to get too picky with details, as it will be understood that many hours were needed to master and perfect your Art, and it will distract from your accomplishement. Do mention what it means to you and be sure the description put across characteristics that made you successful that translate well into good traits for physicians.
c) Yes.

5) A point I want to get across, is that there is no one right way to list activities. Also: It's better to understate than to exaggerate.

 

[Elevencents]

Straight to the point - would volunteering in pathology, specifically assisting with autopsies, be considered non-clinical? I have no contact with living patients/family members. Thank you!

 

[Acoustica]

I've been in a lab for about 3 and a half years now, but there have been periods where I was paid and other times where I've been volunteering. I also started out doing lab maintenance work (inventory, trash, solution refill etc) but also times doing research...do I have to list these as two different experiences, even though they've been in the same lab?

Also, how much participation in a student org warrants it's place on our list of 15? there are some orgs where I attended events and such, but didn't help with planning or anything...

 

[Catalystik]

Straight to the point - would volunteering in pathology, specifically assisting with autopsies, be considered non-clinical? I have no contact with living patients/family members. Thank you!

I'd call it shadowing.

 

[Catalystik]

1) I've been in a lab for about 3 and a half years now, but there have been periods where I was paid and other times where I've been volunteering. I also started out doing lab maintenance work (inventory, trash, solution refill etc) but also times doing research...do I have to list these as two different experiences, even though they've been in the same lab?

2) Also, how much participation in a student org warrants it's place on our list of 15? there are some orgs where I attended events and such, but didn't help with planning or anything...

1) They can be listed in one space, with your narrative giving details if you were employed. You have the option of listing the Employment portion separately, if you have lots of spaces to fill, but I think it will tell a better story of how your responsibilities increased with time if you leave it all together.

2) List it if it led to leadership or community service, if it took a lot of time, if it highlights an interest that is significant to you, or if you feel some aspect of your personality is revealed by your involvement that you want adcomms to know about. If the activity won't enhance your application, then don't bother.

 

[6svette]

hey guys. So I am doing a SURP this summer, and will also be applying to medical school at the same time. The program starts may 30th, and I want to submit my AMCAS ASAP. Is it a reasonable thing to list this down as a research experience, if I submit the app around June 15th? That will give me two weeks of being in the program, but I may still not be able to give a great description of my research...any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Catalystik]

hey guys. So I am doing a SURP this summer, and will also be applying to medical school at the same time. The program starts may 30th, and I want to submit my AMCAS ASAP. Is it a reasonable thing to list this down as a research experience, if I submit the app around June 15th? That will give me two weeks of being in the program, but I may still not be able to give a great description of my research...any advice would be greatly appreciated!

So long as you have begun the activity (and have a contact) it is legitimate to list what you have done on the application. For those schools that accept them, you could send in an update letter at the end of the summer giving more details, or use an appropriate Secondary essay or interview question to get across the information.

 

[galaxyx]

How do you draw the line between work and volunteering? I've done a lot of "work" for non-profits that's room&board plus a stipend which could range from $100/wk to $500/wk. Now, the higher end is a somewhat living wage, so I'd consider that employment but what about the lower end? If you consider MSF volunteering, their stipend of $1400/month +room/board/health insurance is more than most jobs in my field.

 

[sector9]

How do you draw the line between work and volunteering? I've done a lot of "work" for non-profits that's room&board plus a stipend which could range from $100/wk to $500/wk. Now, the higher end is a somewhat living wage, so I'd consider that employment but what about the lower end? If you consider MSF volunteering, their stipend of $1400/month +room/board/health insurance is more than most jobs in my field.

I would say that if you're getting any stipend at all, you're not volunteering. I'm not sure how I feel about just getting room and board but you didn't bring that up

 

[Spikedsoymilk]

Hi All,

Thanks for taking the time to give out all of this great advice!

I have a question regarding competitive internships/fellowships. Would it be okay to add your acceptance into these programs to the section where you list your Honors and Awards, and then elaborate on the specific activity further in one of your 15 slots? For example, could we do this for activities such as Peace Corps., Fulbright Scholars Programs, Teach For America, etc.?

On one hand, it figured it might be helpful for the adcoms to see this among my list of accomplishments. On the other hand, I am concerned it might look weird since it's not a specific award.

Thanks again!

 

[Catalystik]

I have a question regarding competitive internships/fellowships.
1) Would it be okay to add your acceptance into these programs to the section where you list your Honors and Awards,
2) and then elaborate on the specific activity further in one of your 15 slots?
3) For example, could we do this for activities such as Peace Corps., Fulbright Scholars Programs, Teach For America, etc.?

1) Yes, for some.
2) Yes.
3) You could list the Fulbright that way, but not Peace Corps or TFA.

 

[sector9]

Thread closed. Please refer to this year's version of the thread here.