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Tips for weeding out schools

Discussion in 'What Are My Chances?' started by von Matterhorn, May 27, 2012.

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  1. von Matterhorn

    von Matterhorn

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    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    I'm trying to pick out schools to apply to, but the MSAR is being less helpful than I expected it to be. I've narrowed it down to 36 schools so far, ideally I'd like 15-20 since I'm a lower stat applicant.

    I've selected *most* schools in ND, SD, MN, IA, WI since I live in MN and would like to go to school near here. However, if I can't get into a school that is within driving distance from home, distance no longer matters and being in a bigger city becomes more important.

    What I'm trying to weed out -

    Schools that are heavily dependent on small group learning (I'm negotiable on this since it seems to be a trend I can't avoid and I can't really be all that picky)

    Exceptionally expensive (most seem to be around the same ballpark according to MSAR)

    Not top-tier (again, MSAR doesn't really seem to help much here because they give such broad acceptance ranges)

    Not primarily focused on colored, URM, or rural medicine

    Based off of that, does anyone have any suggestions for where I should look into? Here's my current list, and I realize there are some reaches on there, but I'm ok with casting a net that has little chances of a return for a few select schools. My stats are 3.5 GPA, 28 MCAT, above average ECs (IMO, but they could very well be average)


    Revised List

    Albany
    Rosalind Franklin
    Creighton
    Drexel
    Eastern Virginia
    LSU (is MSAR right, only 2 OOS accepted? My friend just got in, from SD with no state ties, low MCAT and GPA, has me confused)
    Layola
    Marshall U
    Mayo
    Wisconsin (Milwaukee and Madison)
    NYMC
    Oakland
    Rush
    St Louis
    Sanford
    SUNY Downstate
    Stony Brook
    Toledo
    USF Morsani
    U Arizona
    U Iowa
    U Kansas
    U Louisville
    U Miami
    U Minnesota
    U Nebraska
    U North Dakota
    VCU
    Wayne State
    Wright State

    Very random list, I know. I'd like to err on the side of safety schools for obvious reasons, as well as avoid schools that are heavily biased towards in-state applicants. Any suggestions? I really like the idea of living in Chicago, NY, Cali, or Texas (if it isn't obvious by that list).

    Thanks
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012
  2. H Y F R

    H Y F R

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    Hey there, from my experience NY and CA schools are very very tough to crack. CA especially. I'm from CA, and it seems one needs magical stats to get a look. But best of luck to you.
  3. cinamin

    cinamin

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    I think UCLA and UC Davis and all the other UC's mainly accept in-state residents, so you could knock those two off. Someone correct if wrong though.
  4. Ismet

    Ismet MS-3! Moderator

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    Isn't GWU notoriously expensive? Or is that Georgetown?
    Also, I've heard that Marshall is not very OOS-friendly.
  5. von Matterhorn

    von Matterhorn

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    According to MSAR, GWU is about $71,800 for OOS total, which is about what the majority of schools seem to cost ( :( ).

    And I'll look into Marshall, thanks! This is exactly why I asked on here.

    Is cali really only for IS applicants and high stats? I really like Cali, I might just apply to one school for the hell of it if that's the case
  6. LostInPreMed

    LostInPreMed

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    I never want to discourage people from applying to a school because as my old basketball coach used to say "even a blind squirrel finds an occasional acorn"...I live in CA and i would say that a very large majority of matriculants are in state. Even as an in state applicant, these schools are hard to get in to, i can't imagine what it takes to get in from OOS.

    George Washington is a very expensive school but before checking it OFF your list, see what they offer in financial aid and scholarships. If they can cut you a huge break in funds, there may not be a huge difference in going there and going to a $50K school that doesn't give you much of anything. Best of luck to you!


    Onwards!
  7. Nymphicus

    Nymphicus kane o ke kai Moderator Lifetime Donor

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    UT's (Texas) are heavily biased towards in-state residents and are also on their own application service (not AMCAS).
  8. jmb10

    jmb10 PreMed Roadmap

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    For what it's worth Texas schools are required by law to have 90% in-state residents.
  9. von Matterhorn

    von Matterhorn

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    Oh man, really? That's a bummer :( I really like Texas. Does A&M and Baylor fall into that category of IS-biased and not on AMCAS?
  10. PreMedOrDead

    PreMedOrDead I'm sure you'll get in...

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    UND is selective towards ND residents, Native Americans and Rural Medicine. If you have the MSAR book (like I believe you do), look at IS versus OOS acceptances. Most state schools aren't worth applying unless you're actually from there. Of course, you should absolutely be applying to UMD, Mayo and UoMinn as a MN resident.

    I don't believe you have Duluth listed in the first list. If you're from a small town (though even if you're not), UMD is probably the greatest shot for a Minnesota resident. But your ECs should show that you're interested in family medicine/rural practice, if possible. The nice thing about UMD is that only your first two years are actually in Duluth, your final two years are actually through the UoMinn.
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  11. Ismet

    Ismet MS-3! Moderator

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    Baylor is through AMCAS, not TMDSAS. Not sure about the IS-bias.
  12. von Matterhorn

    von Matterhorn

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    I had a feeling UND was like that, thanks for clearing that up.

    Totally forgot about UMD, it's not on the MSAR for some reason. A bunch of people have told me not to apply to UMD since I'm not interested in rural FP, and that's all they're really interested in. My ECs don't really reflect that, either. Still worth applying?
  13. Cinclus

    Cinclus Hazlo. Moderator Emeritus

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    70% of Baylor's acceptees are in-state, so they're the most OOS-friendly Texas school.
  14. PreMedOrDead

    PreMedOrDead I'm sure you'll get in...

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    Where are you from? If you are from a small town then you are golden, if not you are going to have to bs your way in. UMD is notoriously good at weeding out the 'fakes' though. But it would probably be your best shot at an MD program if you weren't picked off as not interested in rural med.

    But if you have the stats, do not waste their seats, UoMinn sounds like a better fit.
  15. von Matterhorn

    von Matterhorn

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    I'm from a bigger city in MN, not a rural town by any means. And my stats are very mediocre, 3.5/28
  16. mm741852963

    mm741852963

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    For the purposes of the AMCAS, Minneapolis and Duluth are the same school. You indicate interest in the campuses on a website you receive by email from U of M.
  17. Mazdave

    Mazdave

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    Well, first off your stats are pretty low for any MD school so it would probably be a good idea to add some DO schools to your list unless you would rather reapply than go DO. Second, the MSAR can be intimidating, but the way to look for in-state bias is to look at the matriculants for the incoming class and see what percentage of them are from OOS. In the WAMC forum, Catalystik uses 15% as a minimum for being OOS-friendly. Several of your state schools on there I am sure don't qualify.
  18. waterpolo480586

    waterpolo480586

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    Schools that I would recommend removing would be:
    Stanford and Mayo- Need incredible stats and ECs
    UCs- As an OOS with below average stats you will be wasting money. Cali residents with above average stats and ECs still get rejected from all the UCs.
    GWU- Get 10000+ apps with emphasis on public health (hard to get in with a 3.5/28 without showing you fit their mission perfectly).
    Texas state schools- accept 90% IS
    UND- Pretty much entirely IS with commitment to rural medicine.
    UMich/UWisc at Madison- require very high stats + significant research for OOS
    UArkansas/LSU/Nebraska- again very high IS and accept almost no OOS without significant ties to the state.

    Schools to consider
    MCW - Is this what you meant by Wisconsin-Milwaukee?
    NYMC
    VCU
    SLU
    DO schools
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  19. von Matterhorn

    von Matterhorn

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    Man, that's disheartening that state schools are so IS-biased, I didn't know it was to that extent.

    I'd like to avoid DO schools for now, just a personal preference that I'm sure many can understand. I realize my stats are pretty meh, but I've seen people do more with less :thumbup:

    Definitely keeping Mayo on there since I've worked at Mayo numerous times and know a lot of people there. Raises my chances from 0% to 0.2%, which I'm willing to gamble on. Removed Stanford, not even sure how that got on there in the first place :laugh:
  20. pkwraith

    pkwraith Avatar of Boris

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    The only state schools that actually makes sense are Minnesota (obvious), UW (Minn-Wisc tuition sharing), and maybe Carver and UND (contiguous states).

    TBH, I'd pretty much just kill that list and start from the ground up. There's just so many state schools on there.
  21. PreMedOrDead

    PreMedOrDead I'm sure you'll get in...

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    Mayo discards applications immediately below a 63 GPA*10+MCAT when I spoke with their admissions. You landed right on that, so I don't know what they'd do with you, but Mayo is probably one of the most difficult schools to get into with their tiny tiny class size. Your best bet is looking like the UoMinn, and might as well try to pull UMD with those stats, but you're gonna have to milk it for all it's worth.

    The schools you have to have:
    UoMinn
    Duluth
    Mayo (if you really want)
    Creighton

    Put those, and then work from there using the MSAR book. If it's below 15% OOS acceptances, don't waste your time.
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  22. hopeful22213

    hopeful22213

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    If you are trying to narrow that list, I'd remove all the California state schools and thought I appreciate you'd like to stay in the midwest, U of Michigan too. Your gpa is below their 10th percentile and your mcat is 3 points below their 10th percentile. It would be a waste of your time and money to send an application there.

    Perhaps consider schools you'd be a little more competitive at, like Drexel or Cincinnati instead.
  23. pkwraith

    pkwraith Avatar of Boris

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    UND has 32% OOS and UW has 20%. I know plenty of OOSers at UW. It's hardly neigh impossible. Especially considering Minn-UW reciprocity. And just looking at the 2010 stats from my UW packet. Minnesota applicants had 23 acceptances out of 244 completed applications (10%) vs average OOS rate of 108 out of 2132 (5%). That's double the OOS acceptance rate. Of course, it's less than the IS acceptance rate (30%), which is to be expected.

    I'm not even sure why you're so passionately nitpicky about this. If you think that it's unreasonable for someone to be applying to a neighboring state that have friendly ties like Wisc-Minn, very cheap tuition, that's fine. But, to keep harping on one small line is asinine.
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  24. TheWeeIceMan

    TheWeeIceMan And like that... *poof*... he's gone.

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    Not to derail this thread, but does the Minn-Wis reciprocity apply to medical schools as well? I was talking to a few friends about this recently, but no one knew the answer.

    Also, OP, how about adding RFU?
  25. tankgunner

    tankgunner

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    what's colored medicine?
  26. waterpolo480586

    waterpolo480586

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    UWisc accepts most of it's MD/PhD students out of state (do not have an IS quotient for MD/PhD) and this skews their OOS acceptance %s.
  27. Chir0nex

    Chir0nex

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    Some schools to consider:

    NYMC: 30-40 minutes out of NYC by train, large school with no IS bias

    Oakland University: 30-40 minute drive out of Detroit, new school from a couple of years ago, but does have emphasis on small group.

    Rosalind Franklin: In chicago, may be stretch for your stats.

    Honestly you may have some trouble with the no group learning. This is the biggest trend in medical education to date, and will continue to grow at most schools IMO.
  28. PreMedOrDead

    PreMedOrDead I'm sure you'll get in...

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    My apologies, the rumor mill apparently took over my reason. I've always been told myself to never, ever apply to SD/ND schools since they are so adamant about taking only people that are likely to actually stay in those states (who would want to live there? :D). If MSAR says they accept 30% OOS, then by all means, apply! I thought it was much lower than that (5% even). But does the OOS get skewed by Native Americans from OOS ND? I doubt the MSAR would cover that. I was strong about it since advisers were strong about it, so if so, it was bad advice and I edited my early posts since now I'm not sure.

    As far as I know though, UW-Madison is a high tier school and selective, so that'd make the OP not nearly as competitive (since if schools are taking OOS, I would assume they want exceptional OOS'ers).
  29. Jarudy

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    Unless you live on the border with ND in MN, don't bother with UND, honestly. The WICHE program accounts for the out of state acceptances, aka states that don't have medical schools. Nearly every other acceptance is in state. If you want to try UND go ahead, express interest in rural medicine.

    A good analogy is a ND resident applying to SD, it just won't happen without significant ties.
  30. von Matterhorn

    von Matterhorn

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    You guys are too knowledgeable, thank you :thumbup: I'll start adjusting that list accordingly.

    I'm really not *too* concerned with applying to some schools that are out of my league. I work full time and save every dollar that I make right now, so I'm ok with throwing some of that away on applications if it'll improve my chance of acceptance by 2% overall. I've witnessed some real underdog friends with stats worse than mine (seriously :laugh: ) get into nice places, so I'll hold out hope!
  31. PeterPesto

    PeterPesto

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    You need to apply to 25-30 schools, maybe more if you can afford it - RFU, Drexel, NYMC. I would add Wayne State to your list if you have experience serving the poor.
  32. Osteoth

    Osteoth

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    I would agree with that statement for CA schools, but NY schools do have a reputation for accepting a good amount of OOS applicants.
  33. robertch8

    robertch8

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    As a fellow low stat applicant who found a way to get a few acceptances this cycle, I'd first like to say that you should find someway, somehow to be able to apply to a very high number of schools. With your stats, you really don't know where you're going to get your opportunities at to interview.....I predicted some places before the cycle began and was completely off on my predictions.

    I'd like to highlight some of the schools that you mention that you absolutely should target-- the Arizona schools (they take 50% OOS now), Oakland (they do holistic review), Toledo (lots of OOS), Rosalind, Franklin, Drexel (based on looking at MDapps this cycle, I saw a bunch of sub-30s get interview invites), and TCMC (if you can make a connection to NE Pennsylvania). Also with Nebraska, which was on your list, it's very high IS but if you can make some connection to the state, you can appeal your rejection and get an interview.

    Last thing, if you don't get in this cycle, I strongly urge to look at some high linkage SMPs if you're hellbent against DO, there are some great SMPs out there that have some good linkage and of course retake the MCAT to get over 30 too.
  34. Chir0nex

    Chir0nex

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    Pennsylvania connection is not required really. I applied and received an interview without any connection. However I keep hearing about financial issues with this school holding back its certification. Don't dismiss it completely, but do some research if you decide to apply.
  35. tenndoc

    tenndoc bringer of sarcasm

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    not sure if you are serious with these or not. your stats put you in the discard pile at some (michigan, miami, rush). others are not OOS friendly or ONLY take instate (tx schools, ca schools, marshall, Eastern Va).
  36. jkm07

    jkm07

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    Take away most of those state schools and you'll be saving a lot of $$$.
  37. theWUbear

    theWUbear MS0

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    Ohio State Penn State
  38. AshPreMed

    AshPreMed

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    Anyone know if Ohio schools are biased towards in-state applicants?
  39. CardiologyJosh

    CardiologyJosh

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    A&M yes, Baylor no. If you have strong ties to the state of texas, don't rule out applying to Texas Schools.
  40. Osteoth

    Osteoth

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    Not to hijack the thread, but what does it mean to have "instate ties"? Like, would family that lives in the state be enough? Or how would you qualify your "ties"?
  41. CardiologyJosh

    CardiologyJosh

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    Well, let me be an example. I grew up in San Antonio, moved to New York whenI was about 9; still went back to texas 2x a year to visit family. When I was 14 or 15 parents split up, dad moved back to San Antonio, I stayed in New York. Father is now buried beside my grandfather in a San Antonio Cemetery; my funeral plot lays beside my father, as does my brothers funeral plot. Besides my direct family (mother and brother) my family all live in San Antonio and Houston. So, despite having spent my entire adult life in New York, and despite not being a resident, and despite not having gone to a texas school for undergrad, it should be clear that I have roots, deep, in Texas, with inclinations towards remaining in Texas after medical school.
  42. RogueUnicorn

    RogueUnicorn rawr.

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    :eyebrow:
  43. jHustle

    jHustle

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    These.
  44. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Moderator

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    Moving to WAMC
  45. 1289

    1289

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    reciprocity does not apply for admissions in med school or tuition between MN/WI

    that large # of MN residents who were accepted OOS to UW probably attended UW for undergrad -
  46. djolson39

    djolson39

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    I interviewed at U of M Duluth and I actually am somewhat interested in rural medicine and they didn't seem to be happy I wasn't for sure wanting to do that. I was waitlisted very low on the list and didn't get in, so if you aren't serious about it you probably won't get in. I am also a MN resident, was accepted at U of M TC though, and if you look at it by average GPA and MCAT scores TC is technically harder to get into so Duluth does take the rural medicine thing seriously.
  47. bren02468

    bren02468

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    yes ohio is very IS heavy. about 80% for most schools. ohio state is a little better but need exceptional numbers for OOS
  48. MedBound1

    MedBound1

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    Eastern VA is one of the most OOS friendly public schools there are... where are you getting your info from? They end up accepting around 300 to fill a class size of 140-150 and last year they offered seats to over 150 OOS students. How is that not OOS friendly? In fact, with the OP's stats, I would say Eastern VA is one of his best chances on his school list..

    to OP: I would think about adding VCU and maybe VT-Carilion, decently friendly to OOS.
  49. tenndoc

    tenndoc bringer of sarcasm

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    op has very similar stats as i do and i got no love from eva. maybe they are OOS friendly if you have amazing stats but for average applicants :thumbdown:
  50. MedBound1

    MedBound1

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    So you're saying just because you didn't get love from them that he shouldn't apply? Go look at the EVMS application thread, its full of OOS people on the wait list or accepted with MCATs between 27-31. Guarantee you that if you had similar stats to OP you didn't get screened out by stats, there's absolutely no justification that the OP would have the same results as you. They are OOS friendly to people with average stats, plain and simple.

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