To all my fellow desis out there...

[dochopefull]

I just wanted to say Happy Independene!!!

58 years and counting!

D

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[fleur531]

shukria!.. thanks! hope you have fun celebrating at a nearby desi carnival

 

[54578]

shukria!.. thanks! hope you have fun celebrating at a nearby desi carnival

Ohmygosh Ive been so consumed with these applications that I completely forgot! Happy independence day!!!

 

[Shredder]

the place would be better off if the british stuck around. it might even be a world power by now. no kidding. is anyone in agreement? just speculation...im not a student of history, govt, or economics, so im only throwing it out there.

gah, i dont want to get flamed. i do have the best interests of the motherland at heart. but independence at what cost? widespread starvation and underdevelopment?

 

[Dr2010]

the place would be better off if the british stuck around. it might even be a world power by now. no kidding. is anyone in agreement? just speculation...im not a student of history, govt, or economics, so im only throwing it out there.

gah, i dont want to get flamed. i do have the best interests of the motherland at heart. but independence at what cost? widespread starvation and underdevelopment?

I may be a relatively new poster, but this thread seems hardly the place to state these feelings. cant we all just get along?!?

 

[owenmichael]

*

 

[Shredder]

I may be a relatively new poster, but this thread seems hardly the place to state these feelings. cant we all just get along?!?

sorry somehow i have firebrand instincts. i thought it might be more interesting to have a discussion about british influence and indias past, present, and future instead of a round of high fives. of course the high fives are fine too.

india IS definitely up and coming, but thats largely due to the british presence. the reason so many american jobs are going there is bc english is very commonly spoken there, and pretty fluently too, something that cant be said about other countries like china or japan. the language also allows indians to work here in america. aside from the language, i believe the british implemented most of indias infrastructure, such as the subways and trains i suspect. but i dont know for sure, im an engineering student and this isnt my forte.

so, even if the british did plunder, the end result was beneficial to india. much like the institution of black slavery in america. it was bad for those who endured it, but their descendants have reaped the benefit of living in america vs africa.

 

[Dr2010]

sorry somehow i have firebrand instincts. i thought it might be more interesting to have a discussion about british influence and indias past, present, and future instead of a round of high fives. of course the high fives are fine too.

why didnt you just say that man. lol. In my opinion, given a few more years India will be extremely competitive and the influence that the hard work ethic its people harbor will spread to other parts of the country and world for that matter. The fact that they are so good at all they do will only give rise to excellence in the long run..for my part im not indian, but i have great deal of respect for indians since they share many of my same values and mindset.

 

[P Diddy]

sorry somehow i have firebrand instincts. i thought it might be more interesting to have a discussion about british influence and indias past, present, and future instead of a round of high fives. of course the high fives are fine too.

india IS definitely up and coming, but thats largely due to the british presence. the reason so many american jobs are going there is bc english is very commonly spoken there, and pretty fluently too, something that cant be said about other countries like china or japan. the language also allows indians to work here in america. aside from the language, i believe the british implemented most of indias infrastructure, such as the subways and trains i suspect. but i dont know for sure, im an engineering student and this isnt my forte.

so, even if the british did plunder, the end result was beneficial to india. much like the institution of black slavery in america. it was bad for those who endured it, but their descendants have reaped the benefit of living in america vs africa.

1. were the Indian and British civilizations at the time of the British conquest of India really that far apart? Sure, the British had a better army, but how much better were their scientific and political achievements? Do you think the Industrial revolution wasn't going to take place in India?

2. I think the reason for India's new economic success is a culture that emphasizes education over athletics, has a huge population and a history of intellectual achievement. knowing english is a small part of it, as is the influence of the British.

 

[Shredder]

1. were the Indian and British civilizations at the time of the British conquest of India really that far apart? Sure, the British had a better army, but how much better were their scientific and political achievements? Do you think the Industrial revolution wasn't going to take place in India?

2. I think the reason for India's new economic success is a culture that emphasizes education over athletics, has a huge population and a history of intellectual achievement. knowing english is a small part of it, as is the influence of the British.

but what about the comparison between india and its neighbors? pakistan, sri lanka, bangladesh, afghanistan, nepal. no economic growth there, and the main difference was british occupation. i just think the british presence was overall positive, just like it was in the usa. anywhere else? canada, australia i guess

 

[priyanka]

but what about the comparison between india and its neighbors? pakistan, sri lanka, bangladesh, afghanistan, nepal. no economic growth there, and the main difference was british occupation. i just think the british presence was overall positive, just like it was in the usa. anywhere else? canada, australia i guess

haha, Do you realize that Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nepal were a part of India before Independence? As soon as they demanded their individual independences, they embraced doom. These countries are relatively FAR LESS developed than India.

btw, sri lanka was under the british rule too. Srilanka is and was very closely associated to the southern indian states.

 

[Shredder]

haha, Do you realize that Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nepal were a part of India before Independence? As soon as they demanded their individual independences, they embraced doom. These countries are relatively FAR LESS developed than India

oh, no i didnt know. but there you have it, the downsides of independence. i know theyre far behind india, thats what i was emphasizing.

yeah sri lanka hardly counts as a country, i see it as an indian state basically

 

[priyanka]

oh, no i didnt know. but there you have it, the downsides of independence. i know theyre far behind india, thats what i was emphasizing.

yeah sri lanka hardly counts as a country, i see it as an indian state basically

And I am emphasizing India's potential of growth and power. What India did post independence, these other countries couldn't, after realeasing themself from the same latches--" The English "

I do agree, about the english component of it. I doubt we'd be able to go out in the foreign countries and brag our priceless intellects, yoga, meditation, kamasutra (lol) and the list goes on.., had it not been for english, if at all, not so humongously.

 

[Shredder]

And I am emphasizing India's potential of growth and power. What India did post independence, these other countries couldn't, after realeasing themself from the same latches--" The English "

I do agree, about the english component of it. I doubt we'd be able to go out in the foreign countries and brag our priceless intellects, yoga, meditation, kamasutra (lol) and the list goes on.., had it not been for english, if at all, not so humongously.

eh, i dont know. the british are tight, for a while they make things kinda bad, but in the end they make things good. the british are coming! bend it like beckham...yeah, the brits brought football, and cricket, and tea time! and driving on the left side of the road, and the metric system! wait, i dunno about metric, getting kinda drowsy

 

[tank you]

don't forget the british accent, so sexy!

 

[Shredder]

don't forget the british accent, so sexy!

thats very true...but that unfortunately didnt carry over into india, so its stuck with unsexy and highly mockable apu accents!

 

[Nakhrewali]

thats very true...but that unfortunately didnt carry over into india, so its stuck with unsexy and highly mockable apu accents!

you're pretty mockable yourself. if you didn't notice, this thread was geared towards people of Indian descent so that they can celebrate their nation's birthday. go mock the "unsexy and highly mockable apu accent" elsewhere. we don't need you mocking any indians here. oh and btw, several nations that were british-owned are celebrating their independence right around now. Why? because the british couldn't afford to keep them any longer. pwned.

oh and have you heard aishwarya rai speak? last time i checked, her accent was pretty hot! hosting cannes & all...sure she might not be the most intelligent woman in the world, but hmmm she has been deemed the most beautiful woman in the world on 60 minutes, oprah, david letterman... i don't think we can credit the british for that.

 

[Shredder]

you're pretty mockable yourself. if you didn't notice, this thread was geared towards people of Indian descent so that they can celebrate their nation's birthday. go mock the "unsexy and highly mockable apu accent" elsewhere. we don't need you mocking any indians here. oh and btw, several nations that were british-owned are celebrating their independence right around now. Why? because the british couldn't afford to keep them any longer. pwned.

oh and have you heard aishwarya rai speak? last time i checked, her accent was pretty hot! hosting cannes & all...sure she might not be the most intelligent woman in the world, but hmmm she has been deemed the most beautiful woman in the world on 60 minutes, oprah, david letterman... i don't think we can credit the british for that.

huh...the indian coder accent is not as appealing as the james bond accent, but hey at least its english. im indian too buddy, dont get defensive. im interested in indian investing/entrepreneurship, and that will be more beneficial to the country than anything right now. highly mockable...well it is. i mean, mockable doesnt intrinsically carry any connotations, does it?

ive heard her speak, forgot what it sounds like though. i dont think her accent was like parminder nagra though. maybe the british could afford to keep them, but it may not have been worth the trouble considering all the civil unrest. im sure if the brits wanted to they couldve cracked down and maintained imperial rule.

 

[rain1_rain1]

Jai Hind,

Happy Independence Day to all fellow countrymen!

The dream of happy and prosperous India is coming along, the world today recognizes India as a growing power and the stage is set for tremendous growth.

British rule has it's plus and minuses, it formed the infrastructure of the country from education to the transport network. More so, before British occupation India was merely a group of weak princely states fighting each other. British united us all. But at the same time Britishers took away what they came for: the wealth of India, as such leaving behind a poor, wrecked and shaken nation. Only in it's 58 years of birth, the country is self-sustained and on the way to economic well being. All I can is that, it's the time to make history. Vande Matram!

 

[wetlightning]

i find it funny that britain still awards titles like "commander of the empire." how deluded are they?

shredder, have you thought about [/B]why exactly we find the english accent appealing/sexy? don't you think it has something to do with the massive conditioning that britain has conducted on so many of its commonwealth nations? it's a mindset that has been developed over centuries of colonialization, to the point where the british convinced indians that there truly is a stark aryan/dravidian divide (a notion that is now hotly contested), that fair-skinned indians should prevail over dark-skinned indians, that nobility is based on skin color, language family, geographic location. the british were so amazingly successful b/c of their skills at 'dividing and conquering,' at separating a nation's people from themselves and by doing so, ensuring that britain would ultimately gain supremacy.

we indians still struggle with these residual aspects of colonialization, and they've seeped into our consciousness to the point that we find european looks more attractive, british accents appealing, etc.

but i didn't want to get into this on this thread.

everyone, happy independence, a day late!!!!

 

[Nakhrewali]

huh...the indian coder accent is not as appealing as the james bond accent, but hey at least its english. im indian too buddy, dont get defensive. im interested in indian investing/entrepreneurship, and that will be more beneficial to the country than anything right now. highly mockable...well it is. i mean, mockable doesnt intrinsically carry any connotations, does it?

ive heard her speak, forgot what it sounds like though. i dont think her accent was like parminder nagra though. maybe the british could afford to keep them, but it may not have been worth the trouble considering all the civil unrest. im sure if the brits wanted to they couldve cracked down and maintained imperial rule.

no intrinsic connotations? umm if you're gonna mock the indians and you ARE indian, then ummm how do you think others are gonna respect you/your culture? parminder nagra? as far as i know, her accent was pretty hideous (couldn't understand a lot of what she was saying when she spoke fast) in bend it like beckham; i never saw her on ER though.

Okay, so your basic argument is that India is becoming a world power NOW because of British influence 60+ years ago. But what you fail to do is provide an apt connection between British influence and Indian success now. You said they "brought" english to India, but in a global economy, does that really matter? Only those who are actually wheeling and dealing need to communicate with other business leaders, while the workers can be fine speaking whatever language they please. And last time I checked, India's success today isn't dependent on colonial rule in the past, it's totally dependent on the economic disparity between the rupee and the dollar. Again, like someone else mentioned, there is also a stress in India about education over anything else, something that is yet to be done in India's surrounding nations.

And you said that the reason India is doing well is because they speak English, something that "china and Japan doesn't do." I guess Japan's success in the 1980s is totally irrelevant today, right?

And while were at it, lets list the positive things Britain has done to some countries! Mass religious conversions, killing in the name of the "White Man's Burden," a hearty opium trade, oh well, the list can go on and on...

I just wanted to contribute my couple of cents to the conversation that you intially wanted to start.

 

[Engin]

i find it funny that britain still awards titles like "commander of the empire." how deluded are they?

shredder, have you thought about [/B]why exactly we find the english accent appealing/sexy? don't you think it has something to do with the massive conditioning that britain has conducted on so many of its commonwealth nations?

Not only the British, but western accents in general: the british, french, italian, greek, spanish, etc are all considered sexy. The accents from asian countries, however, are not.

It goes deeper than that as well. Remember the ancient heroes we learned about in history class? Such great leaders and military minds like Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Julius Ceaser (and other Roman generals), Charlemagne, the Spartans, etc. Again, now contrast those with the opinions of the more "savage" Genghis Khan, Attila and the huns, Shaka Zulu, the Moors, Native Americas, etc.

 

[wetlightning]

good call, singh02...i totally agree. it's appalling how well-veiled history is. it's so important to consider our own biases, even those we may not know exist.

what do you think of the fair-skinned/dark-skinned thing?

 

[Engin]

Shredder,
While the British might have built infrastructure, they largely built it for themselves and their needs. This maintained their dominance. Also, you're a business guy, at what cost was the infrastructure built at? Conisder the insane amount of money they made from exploiting our tea trade, taking all out jewels, spices, etc. Now add that cost for a 100 or so years.

Again, I'm too lazy to check online, but the illiteracy rate of India was ridiculously high under the British rule (much higher than it is now and that's saying a hell of a lot). Now, while this makes sense for the British since ignorance is the best way to keep a race down, how many decades did that put us back? Do you really think they would have let too many of us go to college?