To make the life change or not

[Johndeerehusker]

Hello Everyone,

Small town Nebraska girl here that is educated and worked in agriculture sales thus far in her 27 years. I have a great job that pays me $60,000/year now and although I enjoy it, I am not sure if this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. I am not sure "I know any better" for I have not branched out in life much. I grew up and was involved in 4-H, FFA, farming with my dad, and rodeo. I am particularly interested in large animal. My family owns a feedlot, & cow calf heard. Every year when we work them, I do the vaccinations, I preg check them, I help with AI-ing, I pull calves. I love cattle, I know what that is like. I also have helped the local vet with surgery with lacerations, hernias, cesareans, etc. with horses and cattle. I also worked for a small/large animal vet for over a year before my current job. I do have experience enough, and been allowed more independence with helping than just observing through the years
So here I am, not tied down to anything, single, no kids, etc. And wondering if I should say screw it and go work my ass of to get into vet school. I have always wanted to be one and go to school for it, but I kept letting life get in the way i.e. making excuses.
I have a Bachelor's degree in Agribusiness and Psychology, but I would need a year/year and a half of pre-reqs (biology, chemistry, physics, etc) to even be able to apply. I am not a terrible student (3.23 acc GPA), but I am also more intrigued to learn things now than I was in undergrad. My school of choice would be Kansas State University. It is 4 hours from home, and it has always been very appealing to me and well known for the area. I have plenty of vet experience from employment, etc.

Do I do it?

What I would like to do is move to Manhattan in August and start my pre-req courses full-time and work part time. I believe then I would qualify for in-state tuition. I would work my ass off to get a good science GPA, and do good on the GRE as well.

Do I stand a chance? I think if I uproot my life at 27 from a good job, get good pre-req grades, more experience, etc., that admissions would see that dedication and be impressed and want me on board.


Any advice for me?
Has anyone taken the same route??

I just feel this drive pushing me to do this. I feel like life circumstances are pushing me to do this, and I feel like it is long overdue in a sense anyways.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and consideration. Please ask me questions if need more information.

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[CalliopeDVM]

Moving away and pursuing your dreams sounds great, but I wouldn't do it at a cost of over $200,000 (plus interest). I'm not saying don't do something more or different with your life, but the economics of starting towards a veterinary degree is really lousy. It sounds like you've got lots of experience and skills in other areas; maybe think about less costly ways to use them instead.

 

[ROXY7699]

Well, all I can tell you is that I did it. I have an awesome job of 16 years, houses I own, horses I've had for years, etc. I'm giving it all up to pursue my passion. I'm alot older than you and I can tell you from experience, do it while you are young. It gets scary and sometimes you feel like you're insane for making the decision. However, life is short and you only go around once. If it's something that you've always dreamed of and it's your passion, it won't ever go away. Later, you'll have regrets while trying to answer the question "what if?". After a great many years, I can finally say that I'm going to be a vet (class of 2020), instead of I wish I had become a vet. Just saying!!! Don't let fear or the unknown stand in your way.

 

[ResoluteMike]

Hello Everyone,

Small town Nebraska girl here that is educated and worked in agriculture sales thus far in her 27 years. I have a great job that pays me $60,000/year now and although I enjoy it, I am not sure if this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. I am not sure "I know any better" for I have not branched out in life much. I grew up and was involved in 4-H, FFA, farming with my dad, and rodeo. I have ALWAYS loved animals, particularly large animal. I am good at it too, but I am good at anything agriculturally related.
So here I am, not tied down to anything, single, no kids, etc. And wondering if I should say screw it and go work my ass of to get into vet school. I have always wanted to be one and go to school for it, but I kept letting life get in the way i.e. making excuses.
I have a Bachelor's degree in Agribusiness and Psychology, but I would need a year/year and a half of pre-reqs (biology, chemistry, physics, etc) to even be able to apply. I am not a terrible student (3.23 acc GPA), but I am also more intrigued to learn things now than I was in undergrad. My school of choice would be Kansas State University. It is 4 hours from home, and it has always been very appealing to me and well known for the area. I have plenty of vet experience from employment, etc.

Do I do it? Or am I better off finding my passion again in what I do now? It's not that I am unhappy, I just feel blah, like I want to do more with life, ya know??

What I would like to do is move to Manhattan in August and start my pre-req courses full-time and work part time. I believe then I would qualify for in-state tuition. I would work my ass off to get a good science GPA, and do good on the GRE as well. Do I stand a chance? Or is this crazy and on a whim? I think if I uproot my life at 27 from a good job, get good pre-req grades, more experience, etc., that admissions would see that dedication and be impressed and want me on board.

I know I would have to take out loans up the butt, but what about going the military route to help pay for things? Anyone done that??

Any advice for me?
Has anyone taken the same route??

I just feel this drive pushing me to do this. I have a good job but family relationships, other relationships, ie. have been rocky and pushing me to say screw it, move away, pursue my dreams, and be happy...

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and consideration. Please ask me questions if need more information.

Why Kansas over Iowa?

 

[chickenlittle]

If I had a "great job" paying $60k year, I wouldn't give that up to pursue vet med. No way.

Obviously, you'd come out way behind financially... in the next four years, you could earn $240k or take out $200kish in loans, so the true cost of the degree is around $440k. That's money you will never recoup. But I'm sure you probably already knew that

Why veterinary medicine? If you're bored in your current career, I can assure you that veterinary medicine will become similarly routine/boring after a while.... maybe there's a way to learn new things and challenge yourself without the huge price tag? That could either mean a career change to another career with lower entry costs or even taking on some sort of meaningful volunteer work in your time outside of work. If your issue is mostly related to your location/relationships/etc, maybe it's time to relocate and pursue something different?

 

[Johndeerehusker]

Why Kansas over Iowa?

Kansas is closer to home. I find the school and program more appealing. Cost wise it is about the same if I establish Kansas residency for a year.

 

[Johndeerehusker]

If I had a "great job" paying $60k year, I wouldn't give that up to pursue vet med. No way.

Obviously, you'd come out way behind financially... in the next four years, you could earn $240k or take out $200kish in loans, so the true cost of the degree is around $440k. That's money you will never recoup. But I'm sure you probably already knew that

Why veterinary medicine? If you're bored in your current career, I can assure you that veterinary medicine will become similarly routine/boring after a while.... maybe there's a way to learn new things and challenge yourself without the huge price tag? That could either mean a career change to another career with lower entry costs or even taking on some sort of meaningful volunteer work in your time outside of work. If your issue is mostly related to your location/relationships/etc, maybe it's time to relocate and pursue something different?

I can see where you're coming from on the outside looking in on my situation. Animals have always been my biggest passion, I enjoy working with them much more than what I do now. I pursed a degree in agriculture because it is what I knew at the time. Also, I didn't want to go to a big city or school to do pre vet because it intimidated me. Now I regret it, I wish I would have spread my wings like I want to now. Instead I want to a community college that 4-H and FFA scholarships paid for then transferred to the local 4 yeas school to finish. With everything recent it made me think about things. Who am I? Am I happy with the choices I've made? Do I want to do this the rest of my life? Annnddd I started thinking about how I should have done this year's ago, and it is very appealing now to me.

 

[ResoluteMike]

Kansas is closer to home. I find the school and program more appealing. Cost wise it is about the same if I establish Kansas residency for a year.

First two years for Nebraska are at Lincoln, so only two years would be a little farther away. Have you visited all three locations?

 

[Johndeerehusker]

First two years for Nebraska are at Lincoln, so only two years would be a little farther away. Have you visited all three locations?

Manhattan, and Lincoln. Not Ames. The Nebraska program also pretty new, where kstate is established. What is your opinion of them? Where did you attend?

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Animals have always been my biggest passion, I enjoy working with them much more than what I do now.

Just to comment on this point.....honestly, as a clinical veterinarian, you work far more with people than you do with animals. Twice as much, probably more. Don't become a vet because you want to work with animals (just like no one would recommend someone become a pediatrician because they love and want to work with children).........there are many other ways to work with animals that are much, much cheaper and involve more actual work with animals than people.

 

[chickenlittle]

Just to comment on this point.....honestly, as a clinical veterinarian, you work far more with people than you do with animals. Twice as much, probably more.

Yes, this. Working as a veterinarian is very much a sales job, except you're selling to the general public instead of businesses/professionals and there's an animal in the room while you sell. My interactions with pets are limited to exams and surgery because, as a previous boss said, "if you're not in a room with a client or in surgery, you aren't making me money." There are other jobs and/or volunteer opportunities that will give you far more quality time with animals.

 

[ResoluteMike]

Ames is a nice middle sized mid-west town. I liked what I saw when I visited and the college is great. I have been out to a couple lectures at UNL and toured their facilities and was equally impressed. Their 10th class just finished their first year, so the program has already out-grown the initial teething pains. UNL is also building a new facility, so I expect good things in the future as well.

You mentioned family relationships being rocky. Is that more of a driving factor to leave home than the desire to be a veterinarian? I am a firm believer in changing circumstances if you need to in order to be happy. However, taking a half million dollar loss in lifetime income is pretty likely to add to your frustrations.

 

[Pawdawan]

Hi @Johndeerehusker,

So I can kind of relate to your situation: I'm the same age as you, and I'm a supervisor with a great paying salary and benefits. I love my job right now, and I've made great connections/networking relationships. Needless to say, if I stayed in my job, I could have had a bright future as a top leader in my company. I decided I wanted to pursue veterinary school a bit earlier than you (2 years ago). This job kind of fell on my lap along the way, and I ended up really enjoying it. This year, however, I was fortunate enough to be accepted to my dream school. I couldn't believe it! After all the excitement died down, my mind was clouded w/ some doubts.. even though I finally achieved what I had been pursuing for the last few years, I couldn't help but wonder if going into veterinary medicine was still the right choice for me. For once in my life, I was finally a fully independent adult with a great-paying, stable job. Was vet school worth all that terrifying debt that I was bound to accumulate?

In the end, it came down to one thing for me that outweighed my doubts. I realized there was nothing I'd rather do my entire life than veterinary medicine. I admit that I wouldn't have reached this realization without the veterinary experiences I've had. I decided to quit my job (I recently put in my resignation and it was one of the hardest things I had to do), and I will be attending vet school this August. I don't regret my decision, but to be honest, I do have doubts from time to time, mostly from fear of what will happen in the future, which I'm slowly starting to get used to. I guess I won't ever really be certain of things until I'm in practice. But that's a risk I decided I'm willing to take.

I encourage you to seek out opportunities that will allow you to experience the life of a veterinarian, to see if it's really for you. Shadowing, volunteer work, etc. Do not chase your dreams blindly. It may have worked for some people, to trust their gut like that, but if you're like me, you'd want to have more than that. Like what other users have mentioned, it's not all about a love for animals. Take this time to truly reflect on what you want out of life and what's most important to you. Hopefully what I said can shed some light on your situation. Best of luck with your decision!

 

[DVMDream]

Go shadow some vets first, I'm not convinced you understand what the job of a veterinarian entails.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Go shadow some vets first, I'm not convinced you understand what the job of a veterinarian entails.

^^ This. Loving animals is not nearly enough for pursuing a veterinary career. There are many other jobs (or even hobbies) you could do that involve animals that won't set you back hundreds of thousands of dollars and plunge you into an economy verging on oversaturation. I would get a lot of experience first to determine if this is really the path you want to take.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

^^ This. Loving animals is not nearly enough for pursuing a veterinary career.

I sometimes wonder if anyone ever thinks "I love babies, so I want to be a pediatrician", or if someone ever asks their doctor "I bet you're a pediatrician because you love children, right?"

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Yeah. I mean, I love food, but that doesn't mean the best decision for me is to go to culinary school. Not trying to talk down about the passion the OP may have, but it was just how the reasoning was stated that made me cringe a little.

 

[Johndeerehusker]

Hi @Johndeerehusker,

So I can kind of relate to your situation: I'm the same age as you, and I'm a supervisor with a great paying salary and benefits. I love my job right now, and I've made great connections/networking relationships. Needless to say, if I stayed in my job, I could have had a bright future as a top leader in my company. I decided I wanted to pursue veterinary school a bit earlier than you (2 years ago). This job kind of fell on my lap along the way, and I ended up really enjoying it. This year, however, I was fortunate enough to be accepted to my dream school. I couldn't believe it! After all the excitement died down, my mind was clouded w/ some doubts.. even though I finally achieved what I had been pursuing for the last few years, I couldn't help but wonder if going into veterinary medicine was still the right choice for me. For once in my life, I was finally a fully independent adult with a great-paying, stable job. Was vet school worth all that terrifying debt that I was bound to accumulate?

In the end, it came down to one thing for me that outweighed my doubts. I realized there was nothing I'd rather do my entire life than veterinary medicine. I admit that I wouldn't have reached this realization without the veterinary experiences I've had. I decided to quit my job (I recently put in my resignation and it was one of the hardest things I had to do), and I will be attending vet school this August. I don't regret my decision, but to be honest, I do have doubts from time to time, mostly from fear of what will happen in the future, which I'm slowly starting to get used to. I guess I won't ever really be certain of things until I'm in practice. But that's a risk I decided I'm willing to take.

I encourage you to seek out opportunities that will allow you to experience the life of a veterinarian, to see if it's really for you. Shadowing, volunteer work, etc. Do not chase your dreams blindly. It may have worked for some people, to trust their gut like that, but if you're like me, you'd want to have more than that. Like what other users have mentioned, it's not all about a love for animals. Take this time to truly reflect on what you want out of life and what's most important to you. Hopefully what I said can shed some light on your situation. Best of luck with your decision!

Thank you for your input, Pawdawan. I wish you the best of luck!!!

I think when people like us or our age realize this is what we want to do, I think it becomes easier and more natural in a sense. It seems that we give clearer definition to what we truly want to do in life and more driven to be successful at it. I honestly don't think 5 years ago when I graduated college that I would have had the tenacity and maturity to handle taking this on. Make sense??

I do realize I don't think I have made it clear to people that I have had experience to know what the life of a veterinarian is like. My family owns a feedlot, & cow calf heard. Every year when we work them, I do the vaccinations, I preg check them, I help with AI-ing, I pull calves. I love cattle, I know what that is like. I also have helped the local vet with surgery with lacerations, hernias, cesareans, etc. with horses and cattle. I also worked for a small/large animal vet for over a year before my current job. I do have experience enough, and been allowed more independence with helping than just observing through the years.

I may be worried about the debt, but I have also been where I had a lot of medical bills and I know how to "scrape by" and save and pay for what I really want. I was raised to be a hard worker and work my ass off for what I want.

Also, leaving my job is more and more attractive every day because our new upper management is a bunch of dinguses, and several people have already left already.

It is a BIG commitment and I am definitely taking the time to figure this all out.

 

[DVMDream]

Thank you for your input, Pawdawan. I wish you the best of luck!!!

I think when people like us or our age realize this is what we want to do, I think it becomes easier and more natural in a sense. It seems that we give clearer definition to what we truly want to do in life and more driven to be successful at it. I honestly don't think 5 years ago when I graduated college that I would have had the tenacity and maturity to handle taking this on. Make sense??

I do realize I don't think I have made it clear to people that I have had experience to know what the life of a veterinarian is like. My family owns a feedlot, & cow calf heard. Every year when we work them, I do the vaccinations, I preg check them, I help with AI-ing, I pull calves. I love cattle, I know what that is like. I also have helped the local vet with surgery with lacerations, hernias, cesareans, etc. with horses and cattle. I also worked for a small/large animal vet for over a year before my current job. I do have experience enough, and been allowed more independence with helping than just observing through the years.

I may be worried about the debt, but I have also been where I had a lot of medical bills and I know how to "scrape by" and save and pay for what I really want. I was raised to be a hard worker and work my ass off for what I want.

Also, leaving my job is more and more attractive every day because our new upper management is a bunch of dinguses, and several people have already left already.

It is a BIG commitment and I am definitely taking the time to figure this all out.

Sounds like you had your mind made up before you even created this thread and just prefer to dismiss our recommendations. And seem to only accept those that are what you want to hear. Not worth asking for opinions if you are just going to ignore those that aren't what you want to hear. Oh well, good luck.

Still get more vet experience. And reconsider the debt, use the AVMA debt calculator, it is the best tool out there for really showing how much impact that debt will have. And even it is a bit more optimistic than reality.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

When 27 year olds use the phrase "when people are our age...."

 

[LetItSnow]

When 27 year olds use the phrase "when people are our age...."

I laughed a bit. From where I'm sitting, there's precious little difference between 18 and 27.

 

[Caia]

I laughed a bit. From where I'm sitting, there's precious little difference between 18 and 27.

 

[Truth74]

When 27 year olds use the phrase "when people are our age...."

Ditto!!!

 

[Caia]

Dude, I don't know what kind of 27 yr olds you're all meeting, but I feel like there's an enormous difference between 27 yr old me and 20 yr old me. Huge difference.

So I would be comfortable referring to "people my age" because of that. Maybe I'm crazy? Or just weird.

 

[DVMDream]

Dude, I don't know what kind of 27 yr olds you're all meeting, but I feel like there's an enormous difference between 27 yr old me and 20 yr old me. Huge difference.

So I would be comfortable referring to "people my age" because of that. Maybe I'm crazy? Or just weird.

It is the context in which it was stated. The "27 like us/people our age" is somehow "older".... so when those who actually are older, as in 30's or 40's see that in that context, I get where they are coming from. Heck I rolled my eyes at that statement and I'm 28... so I am "that age" and I still thought it was a silly thing to say.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

It was more the tone of the statement; like she was saying she was an old soul at 27 which is still pretty darn young. At 32, when I look back at 27 year old me, I thank "Man, I was a doofus, I'm so much more mature now". And when I'm 40, I'll look back at 32 and think I was an idiot at that age as well. Every five or six years you look back like that; it's a never-ending cycle.

We always think we have things figured out because we're "older" , but in reality age/maturity is more of a neverending staircase, rather than a threshhold that you magically cross at 25 or whatever.

 

[Caia]

Ok, whew! Thank you for clarifying.

 

[DVMDream]

It was more the tone of the statement; like she was saying she was an old soul at 27 which is still pretty darn young. At 32, when I look back at 27 year old me, I thank "Man, I was a doofus, I'm so much more mature now". And when I'm 40, I'll look back at 32 and think I was an idiot at that age as well. Every five or six years you look back like that; it's a never-ending cycle.

We always think we have things figured out because we're "older" , but in reality age/maturity is more of a neverending staircase, rather than a threshhold that you magically cross at 25 or whatever.

So does this mean we actual start "adulting" at some point in our 80's....
Or is the rule that once you turn 50, you just don't give a **** and stop trying...

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

So does this mean we actual start "adulting" at some point in our 80's....
Or is the rule that once you turn 50, you just don't give a **** and stop trying...

 

[Squeaksmom]

So does this mean we actual start "adulting" at some point in our 80's....
Or is the rule that once you turn 50, you just don't give a **** and stop trying...

I'm hoping it's the second one... getting closer to that point every day, so if it isn't I'm doing it wrong!

 

[LetItSnow]

We always think we have things figured out because we're "older"

Nope. You just haven't hit that age yet where you quit expecting to figure it out.

You'll get there.

 

[VeterinaryStudentK9]

"I just feel this drive pushing me to do this. I feel like life circumstances are pushing me to do this, and I feel like it is long overdue in a sense anyways."


I think you already know the answer to this deep down. Now, take my advice with a pinch of salt as I'm only going in to first year myself, but you have to ask yourself the fundamental question:

"If all jobs paid the same, would I be a vet?"

If the answer is yes, which I suspect it is, then you owe it to yourself to spend your limited time on this earth doing something that you actually want to do.
I'm in a similar enough situation in that I'm 25 starting first year, so I'm considered a mature student. From what I can gather from my work experience and talking recent and current vet grads it is an unbelievable amount of work. There will be a lot of sacrifice, headaches and sleepless nights. You have the added pressure of feeling "behind" your peers in terms of career advancement. But if you truly feel drawn to the profession you will be able to overcome all the hurdles.

Ask yourself, if you could go back 5 years and start veterinary then, would you do it? If the answer is yes, then what makes you think the answer will be any different 5 years from now?

I say go for it, but I'm bias and inexperienced. It's entirely up to you.

 

[somedaymaybe]

Thank you for your input, Pawdawan. I wish you the best of luck!!!

I think when people like us or our age realize this is what we want to do, I think it becomes easier and more natural in a sense. It seems that we give clearer definition to what we truly want to do in life and more driven to be successful at it. I honestly don't think 5 years ago when I graduated college that I would have had the tenacity and maturity to handle taking this on. Make sense??

I do realize I don't think I have made it clear to people that I have had experience to know what the life of a veterinarian is like. My family owns a feedlot, & cow calf heard. Every year when we work them, I do the vaccinations, I preg check them, I help with AI-ing, I pull calves. I love cattle, I know what that is like. I also have helped the local vet with surgery with lacerations, hernias, cesareans, etc. with horses and cattle. I also worked for a small/large animal vet for over a year before my current job. I do have experience enough, and been allowed more independence with helping than just observing through the years.

I may be worried about the debt, but I have also been where I had a lot of medical bills and I know how to "scrape by" and save and pay for what I really want. I was raised to be a hard worker and work my ass off for what I want.

Also, leaving my job is more and more attractive every day because our new upper management is a bunch of dinguses, and several people have already left already.

It is a BIG commitment and I am definitely taking the time to figure this all out.

Cow-Calf Herd... Herd... not heard...

 

[CalliopeDVM]

"If all jobs paid the same, would I be a vet?"

If the answer is yes, which I suspect it is, then you owe it to yourself to spend your limited time on this earth doing something that you actually want to do.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I have to say that, as someone in her mid-50s, I disagree. It's a fantasy world where money doesn't make a difference, and ignoring the effects of a huge debt load (if you will be one of those graduating with over $150K, or even $100K) is foolhardy. Financial pressures can make something you like into something you resent. I believe that if you really have a passion for doing something, make it your hobby or volunteer job, but not your paid work (unless you are independently wealthy).....there's no faster way to ruin something than to mix it with workplace stress, anxiety over interest charges, and pressure to pay the bills.

 

[VeterinaryStudentK9]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I have to say that, as someone in her mid-50s, I disagree. It's a fantasy world where money doesn't make a difference, and ignoring the effects of a huge debt load (if you will be one of those graduating with over $150K, or even $100K) is foolhardy. Financial pressures can make something you like into something you resent. I believe that if you really have a passion for doing something, make it your hobby or volunteer job, but not your paid work (unless you are independently wealthy).....there's no faster way to ruin something than to mix it with workplace stress, anxiety over interest charges, and pressure to pay the bills.

I'm not saying money doesn't make a difference, I am saying that if you live within your means, a veterinarian salary is enough to make a comfortable living with food on the table, a roof over your head, send your kids to a good school and a holiday once a year. A vet I worked for last year gave me a great piece of advice, he said 70% of the job is running a business, the 30% that is veterinary is your hobby.
As for making your passion a hobby, I don't think they let hobbyists into ORs, conduct physicals etc. I understand that I am full of youthful optimism but I see no reason to become pessimistic. The happy and comfortable vets I have worked for stand testament that the career can give you everything you need. People on here are acting as if they didn't do veterinary they would have gone to community college and gone on to manage a hedge fund. All higher education involves debt, not all jobs outside of veterinary pay well. I agree that the stresses of finances can be depressing but I disagree that they are a unique to the veterinary profession.

 

[chickenlittle]

. A vet I worked for last year gave me a great piece of advice, he said 70% of the job is running a business, the 30% that is veterinary is your hobby.

That may be true for practice owners. The reality, though, is that the veterinary profession is changing (just like human medicine, pharmacy, etc) and therefore many veterinarians will work their entire career as associates, not practice owners. Therefore, 70% of my job is kissing up to my corporate bosses, selling our wellness plans, looking for ways to increase my metrics (pet count, average pet charge, wellness plan enrollments, heartworm penetration, dental penetration, etc) so that I don't get chewed out by my bosses or fired, etc..... and 30% is my veterinary hobby. Actually, I'd argue that's closer to 90%/10%.

My boss recently went so far as to say "I'm concerned that you may be putting the well-being of your patients above the financial well-being of the hospital." Seriously.

So... yes, ownership has challenges but also has unique rewards. Working as a corporate drone forever? I suspect that is mostly the same whether you're working as a vet or shuffling papers as a desk jockey... the biggest difference is that the desk jockey often gets to leave work on time and take sick days if needed. The profession is changing... and while that does have certain benefits (i.e. greater availability of PT work), it also has significant drawbacks. The challenges I face at work are no different from those that my father in law faces as a manager at a corporate auto parts store... I just took on a lot more educational expense in exchange for a higher salary. My husband and MIL commiserate that our jobs are otherwise identical.

 

[VeterinaryStudentK9]

It sounds to me like you just happen to work corporate practice. I'm from Ireland so all the vets are small partnership arrangements. The biggest vet chain I know of in the country is 4 different locations. I saw the practice owner regularly give free care to regular clients or those in financial difficulty. I suppose it's like any profession, there are good bosses and bad bosses. I'm sorry you have to put up with that chickenlittle, that must be very frustrating. Have you thought about looking for work somewhere else?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

It sounds to me like you just happen to work corporate practice. I'm from Ireland so all the vets are small partnership arrangements. The biggest vet chain I know of in the country is 4 different locations. I saw the practice owner regularly give free care to regular clients or those in financial difficulty. I suppose it's like any profession, there are good bosses and bad bosses. I'm sorry you have to put up with that chickenlittle, that must be very frustrating. Have you thought about looking for work somewhere else?

This IS being a bad boss.

 

[chickenlittle]

It sounds to me like you just happen to work corporate practice. I'm from Ireland so all the vets are small partnership arrangements. The biggest vet chain I know of in the country is 4 different locations. I saw the practice owner regularly give free care to regular clients or those in financial difficulty. I suppose it's like any profession, there are good bosses and bad bosses. I'm sorry you have to put up with that chickenlittle, that must be very frustrating. Have you thought about looking for work somewhere else?

I've worked in a total of five veterinary practices since graduation. Yes, the examples that I gave are all from my current corporate job... but it's just a matter of time before corporations own the majority of veterinary clinics, at least within the US.

Even in private practices, though, I faced similar pressures... my last boss pressured me constantly to see more of the walk-ins and not keep them waiting, the boss before that cut my pay by 30% after my first year of employment because my production wasn't high enough, the boss before that liked to stand behind doctors and say "Zoom Zoom! Get 'em in, get 'em out!" as we saw appointments, and the one before that was a hostile woman who yelled and screamed on a regular basis. So yes, the goals/targets may be slightly different in non-corporate practice, but the reality is that that biggest focus of the job is almost always on on customer service and generating revenue, not the actual practice of medicine.

 

[DVMDream]

I'm not saying money doesn't make a difference, I am saying that if you live within your means, a veterinarian salary is enough to make a comfortable living with food on the table, a roof over your head, send your kids to a good school and a holiday once a year. A vet I worked for last year gave me a great piece of advice, he said 70% of the job is running a business, the 30% that is veterinary is your hobby.
As for making your passion a hobby, I don't think they let hobbyists into ORs, conduct physicals etc. I understand that I am full of youthful optimism but I see no reason to become pessimistic. The happy and comfortable vets I have worked for stand testament that the career can give you everything you need. People on here are acting as if they didn't do veterinary they would have gone to community college and gone on to manage a hedge fund. All higher education involves debt, not all jobs outside of veterinary pay well. I agree that the stresses of finances can be depressing but I disagree that they are a unique to the veterinary profession.

Realism isn't pessimism.

 

[DVMDream]

It sounds to me like you just happen to work corporate practice. I'm from Ireland so all the vets are small partnership arrangements. The biggest vet chain I know of in the country is 4 different locations. I saw the practice owner regularly give free care to regular clients or those in financial difficulty. I suppose it's like any profession, there are good bosses and bad bosses. I'm sorry you have to put up with that chickenlittle, that must be very frustrating. Have you thought about looking for work somewhere else?

Irish vets don't have the student loan debt that is an issue for US vets.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

A vet I worked for last year gave me a great piece of advice, he said 70% of the job is running a business, the 30% that is veterinary is your hobby.

Only if you are a practice owner. Not everyone is; not everyone wants to be.

As has been pointed out, Irish vet students don't face the financial stressors that US vet students have. US vet students graduate with over US$ 150,000 in debt, and sometimes more than that. So when you say "if you live within your means, a veterinarian salary is enough to make a comfortable living with food on the table, a roof over your head, send your kids to a good school and a holiday once a year.", that may be true for Irish grads, but when you have several thousand dollars a month is loan payments, it's not quite that straightforward. I am a Canadian that graduated from a Canadian school and had significant savings from pre-veterinary jobs (I didn't go to vet school until I was in my 30s), but I know what kind of financial pressures many US vets are under.

Do they let hobbiests into ORs and conduct physicals? Sure, if they're licensed to do so. There's nothing about being a "hobbiest" that says you can't be trained, skilled, or licensed -- only that you don't do it to make a living. I still believe that the everyday pressures and the occasional bu!!**** of a workplace and job (whether it's from your boss, your co-workers, your clients, the commute, the income, the bills, etc) can turn a passion into something you just have to get through.


Chickenlittle, that statement from your boss is just appalling. Very sorry you had to be subject to that kind of attitude.

 

[VeterinaryStudentK9]

This IS being a bad boss.

It was his practice, he chose to show empathy to certain customers. I don't see how this is a bad thing if it's not harming any of the salaried staff.

 

[VeterinaryStudentK9]

Irish vets don't have the student loan debt that is an issue for US vets.

I'm studying abroad, as do many others as there is only 1 vet school in Northern Ireland and Ireland. I'll probably be $80,000 in debt when I graduate with starting salaries of $30,000. I completely understand though, the cost American education is baffling to us in Europe.

 

[VeterinaryStudentK9]

"Do they let hobbiests into ORs and conduct physicals? Sure, if they're licensed to do so. There's nothing about being a "hobbiest" that says you can't be trained, skilled, or licensed -- only that you don't do it to make a living. I still believe that the everyday pressures and the occasional bu!!**** of a workplace and job (whether it's from your boss, your co-workers, your clients, the commute, the income, the bills, etc) can turn a passion into something you just have to get through."

Sorry, hobbyist, how embarrassing! I think you could infer from context what I meant, that if your passion is surgery and medicine there is no way to pursue that passion as a hobby without becoming a DVM. What seems to be the running theme here is don't do veterinary because it will turn into a ****ty job, just do a ****ty job and volunteer at a shelter on the weekends. This seems illogical to me.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

What seems to be the running theme here is don't do veterinary because it will turn into a ****ty job, just do a ****ty job and volunteer at a shelter on the weekends. This seems illogical to me.

It may seem illogical to you because I think you're confusing the job with the profession. A job involves a workplace, boss(es), a salary (or other compensation method), co-workers, policies, rude clients, office politics, and a bunch of other stuff that you really might dislike. It's about far, far more than doing medicine and surgery. If you love doing medicine and surgery, that love can be drowned under those aspects of a job that you might hate -- aspects that you will likely have to put up with if you need to make a living. However, if medicine and surgery are your hobby (i.e. you don't need that income to live on) you can easily switch workplaces to a situation that is better and where those other aspects don't overshadow your love for medicine and surgery.

 

[DVMDream]

It was his practice, he chose to show empathy to certain customers. I don't see how this is a bad thing if it's not harming any of the salaried staff.

It devalues our services, makes people expect "free" or discounted things, makes people think that we are discounting things because we are overcharging (even though we aren't). We are doctors, we provide a professional service and should be compensated as such, people will never respect that if we continue to discount things or do things for free. It perpetuates the mentality that just because you want or need something, you should get it regardless of if you can afford it or not. It keeps people from taking responsibility for something that is their responsibility, we already have enough irresponsible people in this world, we don't need to further pat that on the back and encourage it.

It is a bad business practice and puts pressure onto other staff, including office managers. It can (and does) make a business lose income. It brings in more people that hear about the "free" or "discounted" care who then expect the same in return which further drives down profits. It can run a business far enough into the ground that it goes bankrupt and closes which ultimately does harm everyone who was employed.

I understand how much it sucks to not be able to help an animal because their owner doesn't have money, but we can not provide free services to everyone that has a sad story about how difficult their life has been and why they are in a financial funk. Those who do give away things for free or discount services for these people, make it that much harder for everyone else in this profession who realize that is not an appropriate or wise thing to do. It makes it that much more difficult for people in veterinary medicine to make a decent, living income.

 

[DVMDream]

I'm studying abroad, as do many others as there is only 1 vet school in Northern Ireland and Ireland. I'll probably be $80,000 in debt when I graduate with starting salaries of $30,000. I completely understand though, the cost American education is baffling to us in Europe.

$80,000 is much better than those of us in the US have to deal with. Our starting salaries are higher though, however, for some, not much higher. I know some people with starting salaries in the US less than $50K who are $150K in debt or more.

 

[DVMDream]

Sorry, hobbyist, how embarrassing! I think you could infer from context what I meant, that if your passion is surgery and medicine there is no way to pursue that passion as a hobby without becoming a DVM. What seems to be the running theme here is don't do veterinary because it will turn into a ****ty job, just do a ****ty job and volunteer at a shelter on the weekends. This seems illogical to me.

Who says you have to get a ****ty job if you don't do vet med? You could get a good job instead. No one is saying that the job you get if you decide not to do vet med will be "****ty".... I mean, it is your choice as to what job you want to get instead, but you don't have to go get a "****ty" job.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

It devalues our services, makes people expect "free" or discounted things, makes people think that we are discounting things because we are overcharging (even though we aren't). We are doctors, we provide a professional service and should be compensated as such, people will never respect that if we continue to discount things or do things for free. It perpetuates the mentality that just because you want or need something, you should get it regardless of if you can afford it or not. It keeps people from taking responsibility for something that is their responsibility, we already have enough irresponsible people in this world, we don't need to further pat that on the back and encourage it.

It is a bad business practice and puts pressure onto other staff, including office managers. It can (and does) make a business lose income. It brings in more people that hear about the "free" or "discounted" care who then expect the same in return which further drives down profits. It can run a business far enough into the ground that it goes bankrupt and closes which ultimately does harm everyone who was employed.

I understand how much it sucks to not be able to help an animal because their owner doesn't have money, but we can not provide free services to everyone that has a sad story about how difficult their life has been and why they are in a financial funk. Those who do give away things for free or discount services for these people, make it that much harder for everyone else in this profession who realize that is not an appropriate or wise thing to do. It makes it that much more difficult for people in veterinary medicine to make a decent, living income.

Nope, I strongly disagree. There is no reason that a vet cannot donate his/her services if that is a chosen charitable venture. The "profession" should not ever think it can bully a business into setting prices and charging "enough", nor should it bully someone into not making a charitable choice when he/she wants to. If you think that charitably donating work on selected cases devalues veterinary services, I feel badly about how you view life (that charitable acts shouldn't happen because they make you look bad). Is it a bad business decision? I don't think so, but even if it is.....so what? It's that person's business to run in any way he/she likes, and as long as his/her charitable work doesn't cost other employees money (i.e. the boss doesn't deduct it from the staff's pay), then it shouldn't matter to anyone but the business owner. If you don't want to work for a company that makes charitable contributions, you're free to find work elsewhere (just like you would if you didn't like how the business was run for any number of reasons), and you'd have a lot of notice of such charitable work before the company goes bankrupt and closes (which I think is a very, very rare possibility).

Likewise, I see no reason that a vet shouldn't have a free clinic for the pets of those in need......vets have a right to donate their time and money in any way they please, and they don't owe you or any one else the "image" of only doing vet work for money and not for charity.