To peek or not to peek -- advice for future applicants

[Gifted Hands]

The fact is match day is risky. You are either going to be really happy or really disappointed, depending on what kind of person you are and how much hope/expectations you had. I got my first choice so yes I feel like I lost that moment of being shocked and feeling awesome at the ceremony... But my #2 was in a different city that would have been exciting to be in but a big change for me and my partner. Did I want to take the risk of possibly going through all of that emotion and disappointment in front of all my classmates? Hell no. I don't regret looking because if I did have different news I wanted a few days to process it. There's no way of knowing which group you are going to fall in so for me it was worth it.

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[Law2Doc]

... There's no way of knowing which group you are going to fall in so for me it was worth it.

the "no way of knowing" is what historically (when the NRMP doesnt screw up) makes match day such a big deal. All I'm saying is for a lot if you guys it wasn't the same high stakes game as in years past. One less experience to look back on.

 

[littlejuan]

the "no way of knowing" is what historically (when the NRMP doesnt screw up) makes match day such a big deal. All I'm saying is for a lot if you guys it wasn't the same high stakes game as in years past. One less experience to look back on.

Who cares? Personally, after having gone through match.. the best experience I have ever had so far has to be the birth of my daughter. Match comes nowhere near that. There are way better things to experience in life. Match day is incredibly emotional (positively and negatively) for many people. Glad you had a good match day, it is not that way for everyone. I find it strange that you can't comprehend that.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I'm glad I knew beforehand. It helped me adjust to the outcome over several days. I was very happy with the outcome, but wasn't expecting that program.

 

[Law2Doc]

I said every Match Day THREAD. Seems to me that every Match Day thread this year, you're there posting that people are wrong to feel the way they feel, whether it's about being disappointed about their match, being excited about Monday of Match Week, etc. You even got bent out of shape about people calling it Match Monday. It is permissible to have an unexpressed thought, you know.



I didn't say they worked toward a specific program/field for 8 years. I said they worked toward this goal (i.e. Match Day) for 8 years. Everyone wants their number 1. It's okay to be disappointed if you don't get it. No one needs to be made to feel guilty about that.



First of all, I'm happy about my match so none of this applies to me. But don't think that programs don't express disappointment when someone they wanted ends up some place else. We ALL know they do. It doesn't mean they're pissed about who they got. It just means they're disappointed they didn't get the one that got away. The same goes for applicants. Someone disappointed/crying about not getting the program they wanted doesn't mean they're pissed about what they got. It just means they're disappointed because they would have rather had some place else. That is perfectly reasonable and part of being human.



Fortunately, neither Match Day ceremonies nor SDN are frequented by "outsiders".

Asking people with contrary viewpoints to have "an unexpressed thought" isn't exactly what drives discussion boards... Plus you framed this thread as "advice to future applicants". So you shouldn't begrudge advice others post that isn't the same as yours.

I promise you no PD who didn't get their first choice is crying about it.
And actually "outsiders" do frequent boards like this. News reporters, people contemplating medicine who don't actually go to med school, and so on.

 

[Law2Doc]

Who cares? Personally, after having gone through match.. the best experience I have ever had so far has to be the birth of my daughter. Match comes nowhere near that. There are way better things to experience in life. Match day is incredibly emotional (positively and negatively) for many people. Glad you had a good match day, it is not that way for everyone. I find it strange that you can't comprehend that.

You'll see in X years down the road what you feel like you missed out on. Life is about the journey, not the destination.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

You'll see in X years down the road what you feel like you missed out on. Life is about the journey, not the destination.

LTD: The match day ceremony to me felt like hazing. Some are doing victory dances and displays, some are weeping and grieving. All in real time. All in public. It's totally wrong. You know why? Because anything but #1 (after the initial disappointments in the autumn of not getting invited to interview by a number of desired programs) is tantamount to a rejection of sorts. And there is a sting there, however slight. This process should be private, just like getting a college or grad school or med school acceptance/rejection letter, or like getting a job offer. When a company hires people, it does not convene all the interviewees to award the desired applicants their respective jobs and tell the others they weren't wanted and can go on their merry way.

Knowing beforehand, I feel like I missed out on NOTHING. I know that with the alternative, I would have had a week of awful anxiety and lack of productivity (in a laboratory research rotation) and would have had to deal with a rush of emotions and all the new complexities that lie ahead for me and my family - on stage in front of ~150 colleagues + families. Add to that that this was not my original class - that I rejoined from graduate school and that people barely know me - and you will hopefully understand why this whole ceremony was a load of bunk as far as I'm concerned, and why I was gratified to know days ahead of time.

 

[Law2Doc]

LTD: The match day ceremony to me felt like hazing. Some are doing victory dances and displays, some are weeping and grieving. All in real time. All in public. It's totally wrong. You know why? Because anything but #1 (after the initial disappointments in the autumn of not getting invited to interview by a number of desired programs) is tantamount to a rejection of sorts. And there is a sting there, however slight. This process should be private, just like getting a college or grad school or med school acceptance/rejection letter, or like getting a job offer. When a company hires people, it does not convene all the interviewees to award the desired applicants their respective jobs and tell the others they weren't wanted and can go on their merry way.

Knowing beforehand, I feel like I missed out on NOTHING. I know that with the alternative, I would have had a week of awful anxiety and lack of productivity (in a laboratory research rotation) and would have had to deal with a rush of emotions and all the new complexities that lie ahead for me and my family - on stage in front of ~150 colleagues + families. Add to that that this was not my original class - that I rejoined from graduate school and that people barely know me - and you will hopefully understand why this whole ceremony was a load of bunk as far as I'm concerned, and why I was gratified to know days ahead of time.

I'm not the one who decided to make it an event and I'm probably not the only one who thinks it's a nice tradition, or it wouldn't have been continued for so many decades. I'm just saying the experiences are what makes life worth living, and for most, good or bad, this is usally one of the more memorable moments in your med school.

 

[DrBowtie]

Match Day: M&M of your medical school career.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I'm not the one who decided to make it an event and I'm probably not the only one who thinks it's a nice tradition, or it wouldn't have been continued for so many decades. I'm just saying the experiences are what makes life worth living, and for most, good or bad, this is usally one of the more memorable moments in your med school.

To each their own. For me, it was breaking news of cancer to a patient, delivering a baby, getting back my step scores, defending my PhD. Not in that order. Match day was a joke.

 

[littlejuan]

You'll see in X years down the road what you feel like you missed out on. Life is about the journey, not the destination.

I am in my 30s. As someone who has been through a decent amount of life experiences so far, it is but a blip in my journey. If you feel like match day is a significant part of your life, I kind of pity you. There are so many more things that much more memorable for me. Match day goes like this: It is an amazing experience for those that get their top choice, it is a fun experience for those that are happy with their match, it is a horrible experience for those that are not. There are multiple reasons why someone may not be happy with the results. For instance a couple at my school, who recently got engaged found out that they will have to spend the next 5 years in different states. They both matched, but it was quite a bitter sweat experience for them. I doubt they will be remembering match day that fondly. The look on their faces was a heartbreaking.

 

[Gifted Hands]

No sense trying to convince him. To each his own.

I think the fact that this wasn't my original class made match day much less of a big deal to begin with.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

For instance a couple at my school, who recently got engaged found out that they will have to spend the next 5 years in different states. They both matched, but it was quite a bitter sweat experience for them. I doubt they will be remembering match day that fondly. The look on their faces was a heartbreaking.

I'm surprised that the administration at your school didn't warn them ahead of time to maybe "peek" at their letters before announcing publicly (i.e. after noon but before ripping it open in public). I know at my school people can read the letter privately if they so desire.

 

[pitt1166]

i dont hear any of the ophtho or urology folks that matched early with a simple generic email or maybe phone call lamenting their lack of match day experience.

 

[littlejuan]

I'm surprised that the administration at your school didn't warn them ahead of time to maybe "peek" at their letters before announcing publicly (i.e. after noon but before ripping it open in public). I know at my school people can read the letter privately if they so desire.

Oh no, my school doesn't force people to announce where they matched, everyone opens their envelope at the same time. No one is even forced to go to the event. I was standing next to them since they are friends, so I happened to see the moment their hearts broke.

No sense trying to convince him. To each his own.

I think the fact that this wasn't my original class made match day much less of a big deal to begin with.

Yeah, I wont respond anymore, I just didn't like how he was talking down to people who found out early and/or were upset at their results.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Oh no, my school doesn't force people to announce where they matched, everyone opens their envelope at the same time. No one is even forced to go to the event. I was standing next to them since they are friends, so I happened to see the moment their hearts broke.

That's sad and I feel for them. The match at least tries to match couples together, though not sure why they didn't couple's match. But like single folk, sometimes you have to spend a few years away from close friends or family for residency training.

 

[rokshana]

First, this is hardly "every match day". This discussion is about a one time event where the NRMP screwed up and let a fraction of seniors peek. Second, most didn't work 8 years working toward this goal. The vast majority didn't even choose a specialty until mid third year, about a year ago. Third, while disappointment is a normal emotion I think you need to take a step back and realize that your disappointment kind of $&@#s on the program that probably is excited to have grabbed you off their rank list, and the probably large group of people that were lower on that programs rank list than you that you bumped off the list (let alone the people who would have been happy to match anywhere at all). This program some are crying about was someone else's dream program they didn't get.

Lets have some perspective. To an outsider this all looks like the guy who wins $1000 in lotto and cries that he didn't have the $10,000 ticket.

well, there are probably programs that are a little bummed about some of the residents they got…after all someone has to be # 200 on the programs' ROL...

 

[ThoracicGuy]

A friend of mine found out on Monday that he matched way down on his list. He was quite upset about where he matched, especially since he had recieved a few 'ranked to match' emails from several of his top choices. He didn't go to match day and I can't even imagine what it would have been like to find out you matched near the bottom of your list in front of everyone.

How would anyone at the school know that he matched near the bottom of his list unless he told them so? I didn't know most of my friend's rank list before match day. Pretty poor showing on your friend's part to skip Match Day just because he got a place that wasn't top of his list...

 

[littlejuan]

How would anyone at the school know that he matched near the bottom of his list unless he told them so? I didn't know most of my friend's rank list before match day. Pretty poor showing on your friend's part to skip Match Day just because he got a place that wasn't top of his list...

Not everyone can feign excitement. I agree on skipping the Match Day though, and I told him that, he just felt pretty down about the whole thing.

 

[Superman DO]

the "no way of knowing" is what historically (when the NRMP doesnt screw up) makes match day such a big deal. All I'm saying is for a lot if you guys it wasn't the same high stakes game as in years past. One less experience to look back on.

And what about us without Match Day events? Do you not think I had the same amount of anxiety and excitement opening the source code on Monday night sitting on the couch next to my wife than I would have had opening the email on Friday sitting on the couch next to my wife? My experience would have been exactly the same; however, I had the pleasure of being quite happy Tuesday-Thursday while everyone else fretted. Additionally, while my wife was initially bummed, it gave her a few days to come around so that Friday was a very happy day as we found out where all our friends were headed.

Furthermore, having the opportunity to peek at the result is an unbelievable experience! For the rest of my career, I can gloat about being one of the few people in history to know my match result early and tell the story of how the NRMP messed up royally! I think that is pretty cool.

 

[cognitus]

I am in my 30s. As someone who has been through a decent amount of life experiences so far, it is but a blip in my journey. If you feel like match day is a significant part of your life, I kind of pity you. There are so many more things that much more memorable for me. Match day goes like this: It is an amazing experience for those that get their top choice, it is a fun experience for those that are happy with their match, it is a horrible experience for those that are not. There are multiple reasons why someone may not be happy with the results. For instance a couple at my school, who recently got engaged found out that they will have to spend the next 5 years in different states. They both matched, but it was quite a bitter sweat experience for them. I doubt they will be remembering match day that fondly. The look on their faces was a heartbreaking.

They didn't couples match? Shame on them

 

[littlejuan]

They didn't couples match? Shame on them

They attempted to, but one of them had applied to a very competitive field and I guess that is how it worked out. Both of them matched in their desired field, just not in the same state. They will survive, but it was a bit of a shock.

 

[Law2Doc]

And what about us without Match Day events? Do you not think I had the same amount of anxiety and excitement opening the source code on Monday night sitting on the couch next to my wife than I would have had opening the email on Friday sitting on the couch next to my wife? ...

But that's not really the same issue. You couldn't really lose the event the others did by peeking. For you it was same thing different day.
I'm saying for the many many thousands of people on here who had a match day scheduled, it's something they would remember about med school down the road if it was actually the day they and everyone else found out where they matched. That's why the school builds a day of festivities around it. That fact doesn't really change because a couple of people already found out because they soaped or did the uro match, but it does change when MOST of the people find out due to an NRMP screw up. again, you wont know what you don't have to look back on, and wouldn't appreciate it for a few decades anyhow -- you don't know what you will remember fondly or regret you missed about med school while you are still in it. I'm just saying for the prior and subsequent years, match day figures more prominently as a bigger deal memory than it will be for you guys. A bigger memory than merely a day of parties to celebrate something everyone already knew. You can't put that genie back in the bottle and life goes on, but if the question posed here really is did the NRMP screw many of you guys (who had Match days scheduled) out of an experience, then the answer is yes.

 

[Law2Doc]

well, there are probably programs that are a little bummed about some of the residents they got…after all someone has to be # 200 on the programs' ROL...

Maybe a little bummed, but no tears. The program that fell 200 deep in their rank list is thrilled they aren't scrambling. I'm pretty sure they have the big picture perspective.

 

[Ronin786]

In general, it seems that the people who wish they wouldn't have looked early are the people who ended up getting one of their top choices for residency. The people who are glad they looked early are the people who either didn't get their #1 specialty or ended up a little bit further down their rank list than expected.

I got my top choice and I still would have looked.

I still think that choosing to peek or not is an extremely personal decision. To each their own. Those who peeked obviously valued knowing where they're going more than the emotional roller coaster of match day. I don't think that's up to anybody to say it's wrong, one way or another.

 

[Knightmd]

I agree. I did NOT peek and I'm so glad I didn't. Finding out where I am going in front of my classmates and faculty and with my wife at our match day ceremony was a moment I won't forget. It was definitely an emotional high. Had I found out earlier it would not have been nearly as exciting. Not knowing where I would end up before opening the envelope made finding out that I matched at my #1 that much sweeter.

Match day is what you're working toward throughout all of medical school. For people who looked: was it really worth taking the surprise out of that moment so that you could know a couple of days earlier? Did you really have that little self-control?

Now imagine how the experience would have been if you got a "bad" program, in front of your friends, wife, family and classmates who might have all ranked in better spots.... I think you think so highly of it partly because of your actual results. But as someone else said, getting over the disappointment over a week is a whole lot easier and better. To be honest, my ranked programs were very polarizing from dreamy reach programs, to horrible hellholes. As an FMG applying to surgery, I was anticipating the latter, but when I landed my #1 I was equally as happy to be clear of the hellhole programs.

 

[551151]

Peek. I don't think I'll have any void in my life due to missing out on the surprise. My "surprise" just came a little earlier than some and on a computer screen. I was happy and I started apartment hunting the next minute.

 

[Law2Doc]

Peek. I don't think I'll have any void in my life due to missing out on the surprise. My "surprise" just came a little earlier than some and on a computer screen. I was happy and I started apartment hunting the next minute.

You can't know now if it's something you will someday miss having had.

 

[NeuroAP86]

I did not peek and I would do the same thing again. Even though I did not match my #1, I matched at the place that I considered to be the best overall program (#3) for my future goals except for the location (not very far from my desired location either) so I am happy and content at this point.

 

[Psychotic]

You can't know now if it's something you will someday miss having had.

WTF does that even mean? Do you sit around and reminisce about your Match Day ceremony or something? Still?

I swear, let it go, dude. We all got your point, whether we agree with it or not.

This year's glitch was a one-off. Never happened before, not likely to ever happen again.

 

[David Hasselhof]

Hate to say it but I actually agree with Law2Doc on this one. I could have checked, yet decided not to. I did have some significant anxiety up until I opened my envolope, but overall it was a... Unique... Experience any way you look at it.

I think those who peaked missed out.

 

[mvenus929]

I also must admit that i never will really truly understand why someone would cry about matching into a program they know that they ranked. You put it down, you know theres a chance you will end up there. Yes they perhaps were hoping for better, but a lot if us would come into that auditorium with the mindset of expecting to get something at the bottom of our rank list; if you do this you can only either get exactly what you expected or better. The psyche of someone who will rank a dozen programs but not contemplating actually not getting beyond their top choice is always going to be a bit foreign to me. And presumably to the people that instilled match day as a big med school event.

I've been thinking about this, and I think I have a good analogy for you. Let's say you're an Olympic athlete. You've toiled for years and years and finally earned your place on the Olympic team. Then, when you're competition comes around, you get a silver medal. Sure, you can be excited that you got to the Olympics at all, or that you earned a medal, but most people are going to be at least somewhat disappointed that they weren't good enough to get gold. And the person who didn't even get on the podium, despite being a favorite to win the competition? Well, they have more reason to be disappointed.

As it turns out, in events like Hockey, Basketball, etc, where the medals are determined by a series of games, the team who gets the silver medal generally feels worse than the team that gets the bronze, because they lost their last game.

 

[cognitus]

I think you are misusing the term "gunner". It's not someone who works hard and does well. Gunners like to try and achieve by stepping on the heads of others. But as they tend not to be the smartest or highest achieving of the group, they probably experience the gamut of emotions on match day that everyone else does. (although they are probably more inappropriately focused on the successes and failures of others than themselves).

Regardless, i think good or bad, successful or not, the match is actually a pretty big part of the med school experience. Yes you can end up disappointed. The whole range of emotion will be seen if everyone is surprised. And yes its a better experience for some to be sharing than others -- but its still a big experience. That's the reason schools even have a match day. Administratively you could certainly just quietly get an email or letter from NRMP, but the whole tradition emerged because people generally like the suspense and shared experience, even if the results aren't ultimately ideal for everyone. And if people have four days to wrap their minds around their results, good or bad, the shared experience and elations/devastations are all gone. It becomes a very miktoast ceremony -- just another event, not the big deal prior years experienced.

I also must admit that i never will really truly understand why someone would cry about matching into a program they know that they ranked. You put it down, you know theres a chance you will end up there. Yes they perhaps were hoping for better, but a lot if us would come into that auditorium with the mindset of expecting to get something at the bottom of our rank list; if you do this you can only either get exactly what you expected or better. The psyche of someone who will rank a dozen programs but not contemplating actually not getting beyond their top choice is always going to be a bit foreign to me. And presumably to the people that instilled match day as a big med school event.

I've been thinking about this, and I think I have a good analogy for you. Let's say you're an Olympic athlete. You've toiled for years and years and finally earned your place on the Olympic team. Then, when you're competition comes around, you get a silver medal. Sure, you can be excited that you got to the Olympics at all, or that you earned a medal, but most people are going to be at least somewhat disappointed that they weren't good enough to get gold. And the person who didn't even get on the podium, despite being a favorite to win the competition? Well, they have more reason to be disappointed.

As it turns out, in events like Hockey, Basketball, etc, where the medals are determined by a series of games, the team who gets the silver medal generally feels worse than the team that gets the bronze, because they lost their last game.

I know that when I was a medical student many years ago, I got a LOT of interviews from competitive programs before I ultimately decided to forgo them all for another career. Had I gone on those interviews, I would have been subjected to relatively tame (at least compared to my other career) interviews, and probably a copious amount of love letters telling me that I was "ranked to match" or a "great fit." If you get enough of that correspondence and the interviews seem to go well, your expectations probably get raised and expect to match at the top of your list. However, you rank a lot of programs because SOAP/scramble sucks royally and nothing is worse than having an uncertain future. I think the interview experience can falsely raise hope for those with numerous interviews.

This year, I came back to medicine from that other career. And when I applied for residency, I didn't get a lot of interviews. This time, Monday was the happiest day for me because not matching was a VERY real possibility this time around. I'm probably more like LTD only because I wasn't in a position to leave any programs I interviewed with off of my ROL, but I understand those medical students upset at not matching near the top of their lists.

 

[Law2Doc]

I've been thinking about this, and I think I have a good analogy for you. Let's say you're an Olympic athlete. You've toiled for years and years and finally earned your place on the Olympic team. Then, when you're competition comes around, you get a silver medal. Sure, you can be excited that you got to the Olympics at all, or that you earned a medal, but most people are going to be at least somewhat disappointed that they weren't good enough to get gold. And the person who didn't even get on the podium, despite being a favorite to win the competition? Well, they have more reason to be disappointed.

As it turns out, in events like Hockey, Basketball, etc, where the medals are determined by a series of games, the team who gets the silver medal generally feels worse than the team that gets the bronze, because they lost their last game.

Yes but how many Olympic athletes would opt to just skip the medal ceremony and just find out by email if they won? Good or bad there's value to having the experience, to being there real time.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Yes but how many Olympic athletes would opt to just skip the medal ceremony and just find out by email if they won? Good or bad there's value to having the experience, to being there real time.

Olympic athletes find out how they did long before the ceremony. That's the point -- they find out ahead of time. It doesn't take away from the ceremony. Not everyone who peeked skipped their Match Day ceremony. In fact, I doubt most did. They just knew ahead of time what their results were, just like the Olympic athlete.

 

[mvenus929]

Yes but how many Olympic athletes would opt to just skip the medal ceremony and just find out by email if they won? Good or bad there's value to having the experience, to being there real time.

While I agree with what Elisabeth said, I wasn't speaking to peeking vs. not. I was addressing your statement that you don't understand why someone would be upset over matching low on their list.

I got a post-match survey e-mail yesterday from a program I didn't match to (as in, I dropped below them on my rank list). Felt very much like pouring salt in the wound.

 

[Cnote81]

i peeked, i skipped the ceremony, and i'd do it again in a heartbeat. the pomp and circumstance that this whole thing is treated with is kind of ridiculous. maybe it's because i don't come from a family of physicians, but the value of the tradition is lost on me. medical school is not the olympics, and matching is not winning a medal. some people may want the "life experience" but i'm sure i'm not alone in preferring to be in the comfort of my home, in private, when i get news of this magnitude.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

I got a post-match survey e-mail yesterday from a program I didn't match to (as in, I dropped below them on my rank list). Felt very much like pouring salt in the wound.

Wow. I can see programs that ranked you and wondered why you didn't rank them would send a survey, but I have to question any program that would send a survey to someone they ranked low/didn't rank. Talk about insensitive. Sounds like you dodged a bullet by not matching there. What a crappy thing to do.

 

[Cnote81]

Wow. I can see programs that ranked you and wondered why you didn't rank them would send a survey, but I have to question any program that would send a survey to someone they ranked low/didn't rank. Talk about insensitive. Sounds like you dodged a bullet by not matching there. What a crappy thing to do.

if you could believe it, i got the same thing literally 10 minutes after the email release on match day

 

[cognitus]

Am I alone in admitting that I saw my match result on my iPhone while I was jogging?

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

if you could believe it, i got the same thing literally 10 minutes after the email release on match day

It makes me wonder about the ones I got. I matched at a place I ranked higher than the surveys I got (and one did come shortly after the match email on Friday), but I assumed those were from programs that ranked me and wondered why I didn't end up there. Now I doubt that.

 

[cognitus]

It makes me wonder about the ones I got. I ranked at a place higher than the surveys I got (and one did come shortly after the match email on Friday), but I assumed those were from programs that ranked me and wondered why I didn't end up there. Now I doubt that.

Come to think of it, how would any program know where it was ranked in your ROL? How would any program know you ranked it at all? I would think those surveys go to everyone that interviewed at the program or everyone that the program ranked.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Come to think of it, how would any program know where it was ranked in your ROL? How would any program know you ranked it at all? I would think those surveys go to everyone that interviewed at the program or everyone that the program ranked.

A number of ways. If they ended up with someone they ranked below you, then it becomes obvious to them they weren't at the top of your ROL. Also, if they didn't fill, then they know everyone they ranked ranked other programs better. If they had to go down to number 30 to fill 5 spots, then they might email their top 10 candidates who were ranked above number 30 to find out what they could do better to attract applicants for next year. But if they go to number 30 to fill, then it's poor form to send a survey to those they ranked 31-whatever.

 

[Raryn]

Yes but how many Olympic athletes would opt to just skip the medal ceremony and just find out by email if they won? Good or bad there's value to having the experience, to being there real time.

L2D, I know you're usually like a bulldog, but sometimes man, after you've said your piece, you just have to let it go. Otherwise this goes around and around in circles.