To tufts applicants

[chimera1]

Hey Tufts applicants,

I just wanted to give you a heads up on some new policies that the V'17 class were 'surprised' with. I was not impressed with the honesty and integrity of the admins on this one, so I thought you should know--if nothing else, it might be asking about during your interview. We were all told during the interview that we would have the 12-1pm period free to go to presentations, get tutored by professors, or take care of our own pets. This was not the case.

There was a lot of disingenuous language about 'volunteering' but since we couldn't refuse without failing both Human-animal relations in the fall and Clinical Skills in the spring.

Basically you will conscripted (as in, you will fail the badly taught HAR class if you refuse) to walk the school dogs about 1x a week for a year, and this will mostly have to occur during the 12-1pm lunch time.

Unfortunately, we were not warned about this before we came. So people who brought dogs expected to have this time to go home and walk their own dogs (as they were told during interviews). Some people had to hire dog-walkers for their own dogs (not awesome), so that they could walk dogs that Tufts is too cheap to care for properly.

I know some of you will be confused about why this is bad, since walking dogs should be fun, right? Unfortunately it's about 10 hours of walking dogs, about another 10 hours of a paper-writing and organizing dog walking for your group. Also, the staff does nothing to work with the dogs behaviorally--so they are not very good adoption candidates. (Yes, I asked the professional behaviorist.)

Additionally, the admin basically ignored all complaints that it was not educational, that it was poorly managed and the ethical qualms that you should not use your authority to conscript students for your own personal agendas. So it really showcased the insular, unresponsive, and habit of stone-walling student concerns.

And, make no mistake--you will get nothing out of this educationally. In fact, I was warned not to complain by a professor--since the teacher is Dean Kochevar, they were concerned that she might retaliate.

Please think about whether you want to waste this time when there are lots of really valuable opportunities that it will cause you to miss. I don't think dog walking is bad, but that educationally it will take the same amount of your time as being a surgery tech, or doing foal watch or other things that are not also cool but more educationally valuable to your career.

My goal for writing this is that you will be able to make an informed choice about your vet school choice and not have to find out--like our class did--with a bait-and-switch.

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[sblove17]

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, Chimera. This is disappointing to read, especially since I felt tufts was honest and always had the best interests of its students in mind.

So to clarify, first year students are required to walk dogs once a week during their lunch hour? Or is it multiple times a week? Otherwise they fail a class? I'm disappointed to hear about the lack of respect and response to student concerns on this matter. I'm assuming others feel the same? Any other current tufts students have an opinion on this?

Edit: I would love to walk the dogs/volunteer to care for them. It's probably a nice break for students, too! That doesn't bother me one bit. I would only be concerned about how faculty handles student concerns/suggestions.

 

[GoodWater]

Do you think this is something we should/could bring up when we are being interviewed (Feb 4th!)? I walk dogs so much that that aspect would not bother me, it is the dishonesty and lack of respect towards the students that really bothers me. Is it just the HAR class that is poorly taught or do you feel this attitude is reflected on a whole for the rest of the program?

 

[Bullyblues]

wow... This is so disappointing. I really thought that Tufts had a genuine concern for their students, but when you say that they are being "warned" not to complain it seems as if they are being more "political" than I thought. And considering how much students have to pay for tuition (even IS) I wouldn't appreciate getting cheated out of my money for dog walking of all things. Pay $40k+ to walk dogs instead of foal watch or presentations (or anything else more valuable to our careers)... not cool Tufts, not cool.

 

[chimera1]

The administration in charge of actual student admission (like Ford), are super nice, however when it comes to dealing with student concerns--it was extremely frustrating for our representatives as well as individual complaints. The other thing is that I talked to last year's class representative, and basically they had the same problem with being stonewalled over the same subject. I believe this has been going on for a while, but they are now expanding it from 1st semester only to a whole year.

I really loved all my classes except HAR (yes, even pchem and anatomy). The professors go out of their way to be awesome, and they really care if you do well. I think all the professors are great, but HAR is taught by dean Kochevar, and basically she's primarily part of the school's political face. Her class is clearly much more disappointing in organization and content quality. Seriously, it's maybe at the level of an undergraduate freshman intro course.

To clarify: You're in a group with about 5-6 other people, and the dog has to be walked every day. So it is about 1/week. But considering the disorganization involved, you end up spending extra time trying to figure out who is walking when, and filling out 'training' schedules'.

Goodwater: I think a lot of the students kind of felt the same way. Or that they should just make it a work-study or pay the students. Some of the students felt very strongly that we 'owed' it to the dogs to walk them, because we use them in clinical skills (listen to heart beat etc). But..we kind of pay tuition for that, you know?
--I'm not sure I would bring it up, unless you felt like you could do it in a group where you wouldn't be singled out. (Maybe during the tour?) If you've been accepted somewhere else, well--they go for it. I'm not sure they will change anything unless they realize that it will lower their admission success. But honestly..I know how hard you guys worked. I know it's painful to risk that. (Really, I'm hoping all you guys will bring it up on Accepted Student Day! ;o) )

One of the things that made it sketchy was that we didn't really have a clear idea about what was being graded on the course (which was pass fail). So according to the syllabus: if you missed more than 15% of dog walks..you failed the course. Or if you got <75% on the quiz, you failed. Or didn't do..some not well-defined objectives for a presentation, you failed. Or if you didn't go to every class. Or if the students in your group reported you for being non-mutual (not kidding), you failed. None of these were weighted. So..it really felt that if you 'did anything the Dean didn't like' you failed. This is the only course that has this problem, all the other pass/fail courses are fine.

I'm trying to just give you a clear picture of the facts, it was pretty disappointing for me though. I really got the same impression you guys did that it was a really kind, supportive administration when I interviewed to. So it was a blow to my optimism.

Also: I wanted to clarify that this doesn't absolutely prevent you from doing something you really want..But time is a limited resource. Often VERY limited. So those 10 hours can really make a difference, especially as exam material starts to pile up. Maybe you're brilliant and have endless energy and it won't make a difference, but it did to me.

 

[CanHardlyWait]

Are these dogs kennel bred dogs born, raised and kept for your education? If so, I can't believe anyone would rant so much about the lack of "educational value" this activity has. What about the quality of life for the dogs? What about the socialization benefits to the dogs, making them better adoption candidates? Aren't we in vet med at least in part out of concern for animal welfare?
My school has the same program, piloted last year by my class. Sure, it can be inconvenient especially while living the busy life of a vet student. Sure, it was hard on the students who had dogs at home who needed to go outside in the afternoon. But we made a huge difference in the lives of these dogs. They walked in grass, played in an outdoor fenced area with each other, worked on basic obedience and learned to trust people. I, for one, was proud that for the first time in the school's history the dogs needed to be on heart worm and flea preventative, due to so much time spent outside. There were people in my class who complained much like the OP here, to which I say shame on you. Think about something else besides yourself for a second.

 

[GoodWater]

Are these dogs kennel bred dogs born, raised and kept for your education? If so, I can't believe anyone would rant so much about the lack of "educational value" this activity has. What about the quality of life for the dogs? What about the socialization benefits to the dogs, making them better adoption candidates? Aren't we in vet med at least in part out of concern for animal welfare?
My school has the same program, piloted last year by my class. Sure, it can be inconvenient especially while living the busy life of a vet student. Sure, it was hard on the students who had dogs at home who needed to go outside in the afternoon. But we made a huge difference in the lives of these dogs. They walked in grass, played in an outdoor fenced area with each other, worked on basic obedience and learned to trust people. I, for one, was proud that for the first time in the school's history the dogs needed to be on heart worm and flea preventative, due to so much time spent outside. There were people in my class who complained much like the OP here, to which I say shame on you. Think about something else besides yourself for a second.

I believe you are mistaking the point of this post CHW. It is not the "lack of educational value" (which OP stated once, not endlessly ranted about) nor is it the problem of walking dogs themselves which OP also stated was not bad in itself. It is the way the student body was handled by the administration which bothers me to a degree, especially since I just recently came from an interview with OSU where the students themselves told me how open OSU admin was to criticism and change, and how they change their curriculum yearly based on student input (giving specific examples of moving class times, etc). OP is not complaining about the extra load, but the problem with organization/motives within the administration. At least that's how I interpreted it.

Chimera1: Thanks for the clarification! It probably wouldn't be wise for me to bring it up during the interview >.< but all the same it really helps to have the whole picture from both sides and I will keep this in the back of my thoughts while maintaining an open mind as I go into the interview!

 

[JStone22]

As a second year at Tufts that did the dog walking program last year, I am really embarrassed by this post. It reflects more poorly on the student body than the administration. The class sucks, not denying that, but I have personally found the administration to be very supportive.

 

[TooLove]

Are these dogs kennel bred dogs born, raised and kept for your education? If so, I can't believe anyone would rant so much about the lack of "educational value" this activity has. What about the quality of life for the dogs? What about the socialization benefits to the dogs, making them better adoption candidates? Aren't we in vet med at least in part out of concern for animal welfare?
My school has the same program, piloted last year by my class. Sure, it can be inconvenient especially while living the busy life of a vet student. Sure, it was hard on the students who had dogs at home who needed to go outside in the afternoon. But we made a huge difference in the lives of these dogs. They walked in grass, played in an outdoor fenced area with each other, worked on basic obedience and learned to trust people. I, for one, was proud that for the first time in the school's history the dogs needed to be on heart worm and flea preventative, due to so much time spent outside. There were people in my class who complained much like the OP here, to which I say shame on you. Think about something else besides yourself for a second.

This.

We just got our dog walking assignments at AVC. There are 5 to 6 people to a group which is assigned 2 dogs to walk twice daily during the week and once daily on the weekends. Each group is also assigned 2 horses to groom daily and 2 cows to groom 3 times a week. Not one person has complained.

Some of us might use our lunch hour for that and if that's your choice then that's fine. I'm sure you would be able to complete your dog walking either before or after class if your break is that important to you. I wouldn't call it a matter of your admin being dishonest, but a lack of flexibility on your part. Honestly, OP, it does not come off well that you aren't willing to donate 10 hours of your semester to the dogs that donate years their lives so that you can learn. Not only is it enriching and beneficial to the dogs, it is a good break for you from studying and gives you some stress relief. Also, if giving up that small amount if free time is upsetting to you, I have bad news about your clinical year and your life as a veterinarian in general. Just saying.

 

[BlackDog17]

I'm going to be brutally honest: this post comes across as incredibly whiny and entitled.

Most, if not all, vet schools require students to walk the teaching dogs. These animals spend a significant portion of their lives being poked and prodded in order to further YOUR education. It is not unreasonable to ask that you give something back to those animals by providing them with some exercise and enrichment. It's one hour a week, for crying out loud. It's not a big deal, and as CanHardlyWait said, it makes a huge difference in the lives of these animals. No, you're not getting anything educational out of it. But you're also not getting anything educational out of Facebook, SDN, or Pinterest either, and I'd be willing to bet you spend a heck of a lot more than one hour a week on those activities.

If it really is such a problem to give up your lunch hour, then it would be worthwhile (and much more effective than ranting to future applicants) to politely request that the school be a little more flexible with the hours. For example, as TL mentioned above, in our program our beagles have to be walked twice a day, our horses groomed once a day, and our cows groomed three times a week, but we can do this at any time of the day outside of feeding times and scheduled procedures. As long as it gets done and recorded by the end of the day, it's all good. THAT would be a reasonable issue to discuss with the administration. Demanding that the school hire someone to walk the dogs because you can't be bothered is not. I'm not at all surprised that your administration was unimpressed.

I really hope future applicants reading this post will understand how ridiculous it is.

 

[that redhead]

As both a student who participated in a similar activity through my own school (AVC) and as a future laboratory animal veterinarian, this is pretty sad. If it is indeed only about how the situation was handled, it is fair to complain to some degree (although the same was done for us - we weren't necessary told about this until the class came along). However, OP places heavy emphasis on the inconvenience of caring for these dogs - dogs that were born and raised specifically to let you poke, prod and practice on so that when you come across your own "real" patients one day, you aren't at best incompetent and at worst directly harmful to their health. You should be thankful that these dogs are procured for the express purposes of your learning and living an abnormal doggy lifestyle that hinders their ability to be adopted.

Instead of complaining, take action. Politely inform the administration of your concerns in their handling of the matter. Then see if some of your classmates (like mine) would be willing to form an enrichment club to do things like clicker train and further socialize these dogs. You are extremely fortunate to have the opportunity to use live animals for learning - don't disrespect these dogs' lives just because you want an extra ten to twenty hours a year.

 

[shortnsweet]

@BlackDog17 ....you groom your cows?

 

[Chkntree4]

Sooo... You're walking a dog for one hour/week... I'm sorry, but this is just ludicrous. Sometimes, to get what you want in life, you have to do things that are inconvenient.

In most cases, this would mean things along the lines of holding a job to pay for vet school, getting a second job at McDonald's to support a kid, working over breaks and weekends to make ends meet.

But this is one hour a week and keeps you from failing a class. I fail to see why this needs to be made into a big deal, and I think it in no way is a reflection on poor administration. Simply, the administration has made a simple request of the students. Emphasis on simple. If you got a job with a veterinarian and they gave you prior notice that one day per week (pre-scheduled so you had notice) during your lunch break you had to walk a dog, would you really complain about it?

TL;DR:

 

[Chkntree4]

 

[Trilt]

I agree the post seems a little whiny, and perhaps this is not the best forum for it (it isnt.) ...but I don't think it is unreasonable to be a little irritated with having a weekly responsibility dumped on you that was not discussed before, and all of the shaming going on above is a bit over-the-top. We pay a lot in tuition every year, and a chunk of that going to care for animals that have been deemed important for teaching is not an unreasonable thought, instead of students being conscripted to the care. Especially the AVC students posting... international tuition is >50k and they can't spend some of that money on the lab animals? Sheesh.

Here, we have a subset of our behavior club that does above-and-beyond enrichment for our teaching dogs, but nobody is required to do any of their basic care.

 

[vildechai]

I agree the post seems a little whiny, and perhaps this is not the best forum for it (it isnt.) ...but I don't think it is unreasonable to be a little irritated with having a weekly responsibility dumped on you that was not discussed before, and all of the shaming going on above is a bit over-the-top. We pay a lot in tuition every year, and a chunk of that going to care for animals that have been deemed important for teaching is not an unreasonable thought, instead of students being conscripted to the care. Especially the AVC students posting... international tuition is >50k and they can't spend some of that money on the lab animals? Sheesh.

Here, we have a subset of our behavior club that does above-and-beyond enrichment for our teaching dogs, but nobody is required to do any of their basic care.

 

[vildechai]

Got a question for all applicants. As you know, Tufts is one of the schools that is not part of the VMCAS process. But the school is considering whether or not to change that. So what do you think? Should Tufts keep its application process separate so that it can focus on a more student centered application process or should it join the pack and become part of VMCAS? If it does join VMCAS, it would still require a bunch of supplemental applications materials, as many other veterinary schools already do.

All input would be very welcome.

Best of luck in your vet school quests!

 

[HorsesRLife]

As 4th years when you are on small animal public clinics (or whatever it is called) you are required to walk the blood donor dogs 4 times a day at certain times, brush their teeth and do a physical exam daily, and whatever else they might need including treatments and baths on top of dealing with all the scheduled appts that day. Seems like an hour a week shouldn't be that big of a deal, but I guess admin should be a little better about dealing with complaints/criticism. As first years we have a class where 4 times a week, every other week we have to do physicals (and walk and groom dogs and horses) on either food animal, dogs, or horses at a set time that actually conflicted with another class we had, but we were able to finally suck it up and deal with it. Did it suck? Yeah, but we just made the best of the situation and tried to enjoy the time spent with actual live animals.

 

[NStarz]

As first years we have a class where 4 times a week, every other week we have to do physicals (and walk and groom dogs and horses) on either food animal, dogs, or horses at a set time that actually conflicted with another class we had, but we were able to finally suck it up and deal with it. Did it suck? Yeah, but we just made the best of the situation and tried to enjoy the time spent with actual live animals.

I'm definitely okay with needing to take care of teaching animals. However, I'm NOT okay with needing to do it during class time. I'm paying to get an education, and walking dogs (for which I'm not directly getting compensated) during pathology or dermatology or GI would not fly with me. If taking care of these animals supersedes my vet student duties (ie, attending class), you can bet I would be knocking down some doors. Just my $0.02.

 

[BlackDog17]

@BlackDog17 ....you groom your cows?

We sure do! It's good for those who don't have experience handling large animals, and it's good for those of us who happen to love cows.

I agree the post seems a little whiny, and perhaps this is not the best forum for it (it isnt.) ...but I don't think it is unreasonable to be a little irritated with having a weekly responsibility dumped on you that was not discussed before, and all of the shaming going on above is a bit over-the-top. We pay a lot in tuition every year, and a chunk of that going to care for animals that have been deemed important for teaching is not an unreasonable thought, instead of students being conscripted to the care. Especially the AVC students posting... international tuition is >50k and they can't spend some of that money on the lab animals? Sheesh.

Here, we have a subset of our behavior club that does above-and-beyond enrichment for our teaching dogs, but nobody is required to do any of their basic care.

Seriously though, it's ONE HOUR. Yeah, I'd be pissed if I was being forced into 20 hours a week or something on top of paying $55K. But one hour a week? That's an incredibly trivial amount of time in the grand scheme of things. I spend more time than that in the shower every week.

Call me crazy, but I think it's rather ridiculous to throw a tantrum about walking a dog once a week when you're going into an animal care field.

 

[cowgirla]

As 4th years when you are on small animal public clinics (or whatever it is called) you are required to walk the blood donor dogs 4 times a day at certain times, brush their teeth and do a physical exam daily, and whatever else they might need including treatments and baths on top of dealing with all the scheduled appts that day. Seems like an hour a week shouldn't be that big of a deal, but I guess admin should be a little better about dealing with complaints/criticism. As first years we have a class where 4 times a week, every other week we have to do physicals (and walk and groom dogs and horses) on either food animal, dogs, or horses at a set time that actually conflicted with another class we had, but we were able to finally suck it up and deal with it. Did it suck? Yeah, but we just made the best of the situation and tried to enjoy the time spent with actual live animals.

Community practice. Yup. It sucks sometimes. We really only end up walking twice a day during the week- usually 5pm and 10 pm. Physicals, brushing teeth, writing soaps, doing treatments (in my case, I spent an afternoon working up a lump and doing FNAs and hunting down clin path people while also taking appointments and answering phone calls) is all additional. Definitely sucks to be walking dogs when I'd rather be sleeping at 10pm, but its something we all do to pass the rotation, and we all survive. If there are problems "organizing and setting up the schedule" then man up and be the leader. Things generally go must faster when someone takes charge and makes decisions about what needs to be done rather than having a room full of wishy washy people.
I also had a blood donor patient on food animal....ended up at the hospital twice a day on weekends to take care of her, and that was the only reason I had to show up on some weekends.
Heck, I'd count myself lucky to even have a lunch break. There were some semesters where I had a class from 12-1, and didn't get a break at all.
Vet school is full of things you'd rather not be doing. Welcome to the life. Keep the end goal in mind.

 

[shortnsweet]

We sure do! It's good for those who don't have experience handling large animals, and it's good for those of us who happen to love cows.

Giggle...I have this funny image in my head of ribbons being tied into a highland coo's hair and glitter on the hooves.
I mean...the girls do need to be told how beautiful they are...they produce more milk right?


Silly coos.

 

[orca2011]

Just agreeing that I don't think this is something that should alter one's perspective of the school . We have a similar program here (granted much of it is work study, so it's volunteer/paid), but you still have to be around for breaks, so you might miss out on opportunities there. People are constantly trying to get these positions though and I'm pretty sure they don't paid that great. Many have to be at the school by 6:30 AM to play/feed/record data on many of the research animals. However, if this is just during lunch, I don't see how you're going to be missing out on things like foal watch since a lot of that is during a specific season or weekends. Lunch talks, sure, but if this is just one hour a week, you really can't be missing that many of them. And as for the dogs behavior, that is something you guys can take upon yourselves. Pretty sure many of the students who work with our colony animals teach them basic tricks and work on socializing them to new things as we do try to adopt out some of them. It will help the dogs and maybe make it seem like less a boring task/chore.

As for the class being disorganized and seeming like it takes up too much of your time, you're always going to run into courses like that. We have them here, and they definitely require more time than others since you have to put in a little extra, but it's still a class you have to get through. If it really is an organization issue on the level of the faculty, talk to your class representative/academic liaison about it (I'm assuming all schools have one). We always bring up concerns and suggestions to ours and she's done a great job with approaching the faculty in a polite way. But honestly, the way you put it, it sounds like some of the disorganization is coming from the student level (the part where you have to figure out who is walking when). Maybe there needs to better communication within the groups. Make a google group for yourselves and allow everyone to have access to it. They way you can have your own calendar and everyone can make changes, etc.


I do see Trilt's point and while it would be nice for things to be explained, I feel like that involves going into every detail of every class in the curriculum. There are some things I'm required to for classes that I didn't know about when applying. I have shifts in the hospital (AM/PM and weekend shifts...and it's just observing and getting papers signed off, not really developing technical skills) and out at NBC that I don't recall having mentioned in interviews or anything like that. If I don't go to them, I fail the class. Yes, this is more educational, but it's been pretty boring too since I seem to always have a shift when nothing really exciting is going on. And the NBC days suck because they're on weekends and take up your entire day. Luckily, I've not been scheduled for one of these shifts the day before an exam. My roommate and bf have.

Out of curiosity though, do any schools really get into the nitty gritty details of particular courses before you're actually accepted? I mean, I feel like there are lot of aspects of classes that are required that can seem like a PITA/taking up valuable time, so I'm just curious if others have gotten more info about certain classes. I feel like the only one ever talked about is anatomy.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Good luck OP to your clinical year... Where 90% of the inspiration for what you do is based on how much the hospital can use you for free labor with the idea that maybe you'll learn something along the way.

 

[chimera1]

I probably wouldn't mind if we were actually asked. But we're conscripted, and the admin keeps calling us volunteers. Or say..we're *asking* you to walk the dogs..but we can't refuse. So..you can see where it's kind of grating. Even if you don't agree that's dishonest.

There are a lot of facets of this beyond 'the mean girl hates doggies OMG'. I can see that some people are getting them, and some not.

I don't really care if you insult me. I just thought it would be right to tell you guys applying ahead of time. Especially if you want to bring your own pets to vet school. It has been sad for some of my classmates. They had to leave their own beloved dogs elsewhere because this assignment made the difference between being able to give them the care they need.

Good luck everyone!

 

[DVMDream]

I probably wouldn't mind if we were actually asked. But we're conscripted, and the admin keeps calling us volunteers. Or say..we're *asking* you to walk the dogs..but we can't refuse. So..you can see where it's kind of grating. Even if you don't agree that's dishonest.

There are a lot of facets of this beyond 'the mean girl hates doggies OMG'. I can see that some people are getting them, and some not.

I don't really care if you insult me. I just thought it would be right to tell you guys applying ahead of time. Especially if you want to bring your own pets to vet school. It has been sad for some of my classmates. They had to leave their own beloved dogs elsewhere because this assignment made the difference between being able to give them the care they need.

Good luck everyone!

So, having to walk a dog for an hour a week has made it impossible for students to bring and have their own dog? This just doesn't seem to add up to me.

I understand the frustrations with administration and them being maybe a bit dishonest. There were things that I wasn't expecting once I got here that I ended up having to deal with, but it seems extreme to say that by having to walk a dog for 1 hour a week that you are now not able to care for your own pet.... that just seems pathetic, to be quite honest. Considering we have students that own dogs and our campus is ~45 minutes to an hour from where most students live and we usually only have one hour breaks during the day, yet people here seem to be able to have and own dogs just fine. (This means they don't even have the possibility of getting back to walk their dog during lunch, yet the dogs seem to survive.)

 

[HorsesRLife]

I'm definitely okay with needing to take care of teaching animals. However, I'm NOT okay with needing to do it during class time. I'm paying to get an education, and walking dogs (for which I'm not directly getting compensated) during pathology or dermatology or GI would not fly with me. If taking care of these animals supersedes my vet student duties (ie, attending class), you can bet I would be knocking down some doors. Just my $0.02.

It was just during the last 30 min of histo lab and we were able to work it out by talking to our professors and it turned into no big deal, bit was just frustrating that they didn't realize the scheduling conflict before it came up as an issue a couple weeks into the semester. We just made sure to tell the IOR to have things better coordinated next year; however, we could tell he wasn't too thrilled about having to teach the class in the first place.

 

[BlackDog17]

There are a lot of facets of this beyond 'the mean girl hates doggies OMG'. I can see that some people are getting them, and some not.

Yeah, because that's totally the point that was being made here. Sorry we rained on your pity parade.

Have fun with the rest of your career.

 

[TooLove]

I agree with the premise that your classmates had to give up their pets for this responsibility is utter nonsense, as is all the valuable extra education you say you are missing out on. If 10 hours made that much of a difference in your education vet school would be a hell of a lot shorter. I'm willing to bet that you won't be spending every lunch break furthering your education either.

I probably wouldn't mind if we were actually asked. But we're conscripted, and the admin keeps calling us volunteers. Or say..we're *asking* you to walk the dogs..but we can't refuse. So..you can see where it's kind of grating. Even if you don't agree that's dishonest.

This will not be the last time in your career/life that someone "asks" you to do something that is non-optional. In fact, it's more polite to ask rather than order someone to do something. You may be asked to come in on the weekend and do treatments, you will probably be asked to be on call or work on holidays, and guess what - you aren't going to be able to say no without consequences. Such is life. It's not being dishonest it's being polite and professional. You would do well to adopt that line of thinking that you are volunteering rather than being shackled to a dog for a measly hour a week. Instead of having to walk the dog, you GET to walk the dog and give it some valuable enrichment, love, exercise, and potentially teach it some things that will increase the adoptability factor. A change in attitude would work wonders here.

 

[gugoodoll]

Especially if you want to bring your own pets to vet school. It has been sad for some of my classmates. They had to leave their own beloved dogs elsewhere because this assignment made the difference between being able to give them the care they need.

I don't really understand how not being able to walk your dog during lunchtime will make or break being able to have a dog, assuming that the dog is already potty/crate-trained. (IMO it's just silly to have an un-trained puppy during your first year of vet school.)

 

[BlackDog618]

I'd like to give my opinion as a second year at Tufts. Our class took the course last year and it was the first year the dog walking had been implemented. It was disorganized at first, but if you make a googledoc with your group, there's not much more thought that needs to be put into the scheduling. There are 5-6 people in each group, which means you only end up walking your beagle once a week or even every other week. If there was a lunch talk I wanted to attend, I would switch with a group member. Walking hours are even offered at other times during the day, so you have the chance to catch the lunch talk and walk after class. In my experience, it was a minimal commitment that did not interfere with any other vet school activities. These beagles do not understand that we pay lots of money for tuition - they were brought to Tufts for us to learn and the least we can do is give them an hour outside each day. It is true that some students have had to hire dog walkers during their lunch hour, but it be no different when they enter clinics 4th year and are in the hospital all day.
Tufts has a fantastic program with supportive faculty and staff. The first 2 years of the program places a big emphasis on ethics and animal welfare... a reason many students are attracted to the school in the first place. If you received an invitation for an interview invite, or are considering Tufts in the future, please don't let the OP dissuade you from coming here. I'm happy to answer any questions through PM!

 

[Etzak]

Earlier in this thread, one of the prospective students asked for the opinions of other current Tufts students and if others feel the same. [TL;DR = Nope. Not at all.]

I am also a second-year at Tufts (which means I also did the dog-walking program) and I am completely appalled. This post is addressed to the prospective students who seem to believe the OP:

Remember how review sites work-- take negative reviews with a grain of salt, even (or especially!) ones disguised as well-meaning advice. This post is the opinion of one person. I would like to put this in some context as a student who has heard this person's complaints ad nauseum this entire term.

Contrary to the OP's claims, administration has listened to her grievances. We have a wiki where students write suggestions that the curriculum committee brings to the administration's attention. The Dean also allowed an open forum in the Human-Animal Relationships class in which students were allowed to voice their thoughts, and she addressed them personally. She was far more patient and professional than I would have been in the face of such repeated shows of entitlement and disrespect. The OP has definitely been heard-- what the OP actually should have said is that the Dean did not immediately and apologetically dismantle a program based on the views of one affronted student, views that are nowhere near unanimous or representative of her class, and how dare she. Quite a difference.

As for the claim that a professor warned her to not to complain because the Dean would retaliate-- the OP *has* complained to the Dean in almost every way imaginable already (and even ways unimaginable, like this public post). I also don't think it's out of a professor's purview to advise a student that it is generally a good idea to act like one is in professional school. After all, each student's conduct both in and out of class reflects upon the school and its student body. Speaking for several classmates, we are quite ashamed that someone who was admitted to our school has acted so unprofessionally.

Lastly, to the prospective students: I think Tufts's administration is generally quite good about listening to reasonable, warranted student complaints-- several beneficial changes were made to the V'17 curriculum based on feedback from the V'16s. Is everything perfect? No, of course not. But I have never once felt that Administration was out to abuse their power, and I feel comfortable walking into deans' offices to express concerns in a professional, constructive manner.

 

[CloudlessNights]

As a first year at Tufts, I'm part of the program (and part of chimera's class, even though I don't know who he/she is in real life). The admins/Dean Kochevar DID listen to us about our concerns. We spent time discussing it in class. Never was it brought up in my interview that we would have every lunch hour off, and it didn't come out of nowhere--it was on the syllabus/discussed within the first half hour of our HAR class. They were never dishonest about the responsibility.

And we don't even HAVE to walk them for an hour--the most amount of time we are allowed to walk them is 45 minutes so the gracious dog walking coordinators can get to their class. No one said you had to take them out for even that amount of time! Dean Kochevar said it was perfectly fine to take them out for a quick 15-20 min walk if that's all you had time for that day. These dogs do so much for us.

I seriously don't know how else to respond to this post. Tufts is an amazing school. I just wish everyone would be grateful for where they are.

 

[cvanthof]

As a first year at Tufts, I'm part of the program (and part of chimera's class, even though I don't know who he/she is in real life). The admins/Dean Kochevar DID listen to us about our concerns. We spent time discussing it in class. Never was it brought up in my interview that we would have every lunch hour off, and it didn't come out of nowhere--it was on the syllabus/discussed within the first half hour of our HAR class. They were never dishonest about the responsibility.

And we don't even HAVE to walk them for an hour--the most amount of time we are allowed to walk them is 45 minutes so the gracious dog walking coordinators can get to their class. No one said you had to take them out for even that amount of time! Dean Kochevar said it was perfectly fine to take them out for a quick 15-20 min walk if that's all you had time for that day. These dogs do so much for us.

I seriously don't know how else to respond to this post. Tufts is an amazing school. I just wish everyone would be grateful for where they are.

Also a first year at Tufts, and I do know which classmate this is...I completely agree with CloudlessNights. Our school is very proactive in hearing the students' complaints/suggestions and acting on them accordingly. This is an extremely unprofessional thing to do to your school, and I hope it doesn't discount anyone's view of Tufts.

 

[Goatmeister]

I'm in the same year as OP at Tufts. I'd like to clarify that we are given options to walk the dog during afternoons (except Thursdays) if we don't wish to walk them during lunch hour. I almost exclusively use the afternoon slot, and it balanced well because a lot of people put more value in getting home earlier. They could walk on the lunch-only days. I'd also like to clarify that the "volunteer bait-and-switch" was more likely an administrative/communication error. Yes, it was frustrating to decide that I wasn't comfortable adding on more responsibilities only to be told that it wasn't my choice, but it was only recently switched from volunteer to mandatory for the sake of the dogs (no one was signing up!).

In terms of bashing Dean Kochevar, I think she's a great professor and very approachable. I'd also bet money ($20 bucks—let's not get crazy) that if the student body had voting power on walking the dogs, we would still be walking them. We have discussed this as a class in several formats, and as soon as the Dean heard that there was unrest, she carved out time in a lecture to talk to us about it. She even emailed us ahead of time so that we knew it was coming. Several of us are outspokenly against it and several are outspokenly for it—it's not fair to label this issue as an example of the administration ignoring our concerns.

We all have grievances about things getting switched around on us, but I think that kind of thing is universal to all medical programs. I can't comment on the professor's advice not to complain to her, partly because I don't know the context of the conversation (whether the professor had a past incident in mind or if she or he was just giving out general "don't bite the hand that can ruin you" advice) and partly because people complained to the Dean directly during class and there didn't seem to be a blowback.

OP, you certainly have a right to be upset if you believe that there was an injustice here, so I'm not trying to vilify you. My hope is that the applicants for Tufts will be able to judge this situation for themselves. I'd like them to take away that some people were mad and some were not. It definitely was a passionately disputed issue. Two of my main reasons for applying to Tufts were their animal use policy and their track record for trying new things based on student input. I have no reason to believe at this point that I misjudged them.

 

[StitchGlitch]

I think my peers have said it perfectly. We are here to learn and I think that the least we can do is put in a little bit of time for the animals that help us do that! For future applicants: Our time commitment was at most 45 minutes every 6 or 7 days. It's really not a lot to ask. When weather is bad, walking is cancelled. If you missed a day for some reason, you didn't fail. If you had a conflict, groups were flexible in accommodating to help one another with our conflicting schedules. Plus, part of the reason we walk dogs is to socialize them and train them so that they can have a better chance to be adopted out once their time with the program is over. I enjoyed walking both my assigned beagle, as well as others. All in all, the original post is not something that I think should change your opinion about Tufts or any vet school for that matter. Asking more questions, as well as for other opinions (as you guys already are) on SDN or on interview day is the best thing I think.

 

[WillowLeaf]

I have a question for any current students - do the dogs get reasonable training, especially learning to live in a home environment instead of a kennel? Do they ever get to play with each other to learn good dog manners? I toured one school where the dogs always get adopted at the end of the year, partly because the students frequently foster the dogs to give them time out of a kennel to learn good house behavior. I'm curious if Tufts has a program like that, maybe where students could take the dogs home for the night or over the weekend or breaks. I'll ask admissions as well, but it's interesting to hear what students think of their teaching-animal programs.

 

[twelvetigers]

It was just during the last 30 min of histo lab and we were able to work it out by talking to our professors and it turned into no big deal, bit was just frustrating that they didn't realize the scheduling conflict before it came up as an issue a couple weeks into the semester. We just made sure to tell the IOR to have things better coordinated next year; however, we could tell he wasn't too thrilled about having to teach the class in the first place.

They kinda dumped it on him last minute. For what it's worth.

 

[BlackDog17]

I'm glad to see so many Tufts students coming in to clarify this. It's worth noting that whenever someone comes to these forums ranting about their school to the point of trying to discourage people from applying, there's usually a lot more to the story. No school is perfect, and there certainly some schools with more than their fair share of administrative problems, but when a trivial issue like this suddenly turns in "OMG guys it's hooorrrriibbblleeee, don't go here!!1!" a lot of red flags start going up.

 

[CanHardlyWait]

I agree the post seems a little whiny, and perhaps this is not the best forum for it (it isnt.) ...but I don't think it is unreasonable to be a little irritated with having a weekly responsibility dumped on you that was not discussed before, and all of the shaming going on above is a bit over-the-top. We pay a lot in tuition every year, and a chunk of that going to care for animals that have been deemed important for teaching is not an unreasonable thought, instead of students being conscripted to the care. Especially the AVC students posting... international tuition is >50k and they can't spend some of that money on the lab animals? Sheesh.

Here, we have a subset of our behavior club that does above-and-beyond enrichment for our teaching dogs, but nobody is required to do any of their basic care.

I see your point here and I'm not unsympathetic to those that feel taken advantage of when required to do mandatory free labor. All I really have to add is that our schools are charged with not only training us to be veterinarians, but leaders as well. I don't know about everyone's class, but in my class plenty of people's first job in life will be doctor. As a second career vet student and someone who managed others in my previous career, I think it's important that these young vets to be learn how to lead by example. Sometimes that means walking patients, mopping pee off the floor or answering the phone when a tech or receptionist isn't available to do it, or dealing with administrative BS with grace. A boss shouldn't ever ask an employee to do something he or she isn't willing to do. That's true in any career. IMO, the dog walking program at my school was instituted not only for enrichment for the dogs, but to give the students an experience in humility and leadership. The lack of both which are highlighted by opinions like the OPs.
As an aside, we were never told that we would be required to walk dogs during 1st year, and we had to do it once a week per person in the group between the hours of 12-3pm. And yet we survived then progressed to 2nd year, educations and personal dogs intact.....

 

[DVMDream]

I had to do 12 weeks of "free labor" for vet school over here last year. We have EMS here, so we don't get breaks like the US schools do. I mean, yes, I did get about a month off this past summer and I got off two weeks this winter, but that will be it. Last year I was doing animal husbandry EMS, which meant working with various animals doing things that very much would not further my "knowledge" as a vet. I spent 2 weeks milking cows, power-washing the barns, and painting. I spent a week with pigs, moving them, cleaning pens, power-washing barns. From both places I went home with some sort of animal feces on my body somewhere. I was not paid. And this was required work to be done within that first year and it could only be done during our breaks off, not during the school year. There was also the 2 weeks with small mammals (birds, rabbits, guinea pigs, and some reptiles), I spent 1 week with poultry (chickens), 2 weeks with horses (cleaning stables), had to visit a livestock market for a day and spent 2 weeks lambing sheep (which I will admit does further your knowledge, but it wasn't just about the "vet" aspect of aiding in the birthing, there was also mucking stalls, numbering the sheep, castrating and tail docking lambs; it is also cold and wet the whole time. You have to chase the sheep, catch them, and help birth the lambs so the interesting factor wears off after the second day).

That was all free labor we were required to do just for the first year of vet school. Now, I have to do more EMS, but it will be clinically based, so it will help to further my knowledge (I hope). Although I have to admit I am not too thrilled about having to come up with a research project that must last for 6 weeks, no offense to those who enjoy research but it is not my cup of tea and I do kind of hate that we are forced to do it, but I am sure I can learn something from it. We are required to do a lot of free labor over here as a part of vet school. This goes for all the UK schools. So, I would be glad to have to just walk a dog for an hour/week, it seems like a much better deal than the 12 weeks of EMS I had last year.

 

[gnome7]

I go to Tufts and I just want to say I am infuriated by chimera1's post. I want everyone to know that the decision to walk the beagles as part of the HAR class was an effort made by the Dean and a board of students who were trying to find a solution to provide a better quality of life to the dogs who donate their lives to service. This is part of Tufts progressiveness in the field - always considering animal welfare, especially to the animals that we use on campus to further our education. In addition to helping the animals, walking the dogs also helps solidify some of the concepts we talk about in the HAR class - developing a relationship with an animal and what that should mean to you when you are the vet treating someone's companion. Furthermore, some students do not have experience with dogs, so this is just as valuable as the other clinical skills courses in learning to work with dogs.

These beagles do a lot for the students and faculty at Tufts and it is the least we can do to give them some of our time in return. Yes, to the V'17 who posted, maybe for first year students it is just listening to their heart, but they are also used for more technical procedures in the next few years of vet school. These animals are so sweet and they deserve love and attention. I have worked with the beagles before and after the HAR program instituted dog-walking, and can personally speak to the fact that the HAR students time has definitely helped train the beagles. They now know their names and certain commands, which is definitely helpful for getting them adopted out. I also know students who have adopted the beagles. In the past it was more difficult for the beagles to adjust to a home-living situation, but now with the HAR program they adjust much faster and are able to transition from being a teaching dog to someone's pet very quickly.

If this student is so upset about having to walk a dog, they should probably transfer to medical school. I am sorry you found it a waste of your time to walk a dog 1x/week and give back to the animals that are helping you become a veterinarian and learn necessary clinical and technical skills.

For the prospective students who read chimera1's post and are reconsidering coming to or applying to Tufts - don't let this tarnish your feelings about the program. Tufts instituted the dog-walking program to help give quality of life to these animals - that is something I am personally proud of. Tufts has a great program, and part of what makes it great is that we are always considering the welfare of the animals that we work with here on campus. What kind of vet program would we be if we did otherwise?

Hey Tufts applicants,

I just wanted to give you a heads up on some new policies that the V'17 class were 'surprised' with. I was not impressed with the honesty and integrity of the admins on this one, so I thought you should know--if nothing else, it might be asking about during your interview. We were all told during the interview that we would have the 12-1pm period free to go to presentations, get tutored by professors, or take care of our own pets. This was not the case.

There was a lot of disingenuous language about 'volunteering' but since we couldn't refuse without failing both Human-animal relations in the fall and Clinical Skills in the spring.

Basically you will conscripted (as in, you will fail the badly taught HAR class if you refuse) to walk the school dogs about 1x a week for a year, and this will mostly have to occur during the 12-1pm lunch time.

Unfortunately, we were not warned about this before we came. So people who brought dogs expected to have this time to go home and walk their own dogs (as they were told during interviews). Some people had to hire dog-walkers for their own dogs (not awesome), so that they could walk dogs that Tufts is too cheap to care for properly.

I know some of you will be confused about why this is bad, since walking dogs should be fun, right? Unfortunately it's about 10 hours of walking dogs, about another 10 hours of a paper-writing and organizing dog walking for your group. Also, the staff does nothing to work with the dogs behaviorally--so they are not very good adoption candidates. (Yes, I asked the professional behaviorist.)

Additionally, the admin basically ignored all complaints that it was not educational, that it was poorly managed and the ethical qualms that you should not use your authority to conscript students for your own personal agendas. So it really showcased the insular, unresponsive, and habit of stone-walling student concerns.

And, make no mistake--you will get nothing out of this educationally. In fact, I was warned not to complain by a professor--since the teacher is Dean Kochevar, they were concerned that she might retaliate.

Please think about whether you want to waste this time when there are lots of really valuable opportunities that it will cause you to miss. I don't think dog walking is bad, but that educationally it will take the same amount of your time as being a surgery tech, or doing foal watch or other things that are not also cool but more educationally valuable to your career.

My goal for writing this is that you will be able to make an informed choice about your vet school choice and not have to find out--like our class did--with a bait-and-switch.

 

[gnome7]

I have a question for any current students - do the dogs get reasonable training, especially learning to live in a home environment instead of a kennel? Do they ever get to play with each other to learn good dog manners? I toured one school where the dogs always get adopted at the end of the year, partly because the students frequently foster the dogs to give them time out of a kennel to learn good house behavior. I'm curious if Tufts has a program like that, maybe where students could take the dogs home for the night or over the weekend or breaks. I'll ask admissions as well, but it's interesting to hear what students think of their teaching-animal programs.

I have not personally adopted a beagle but I have friends who have and they make great pets. As I said in another post, we came to the decision to walk the dogs through the HAR program as the first step in teaching these dogs manners and commands, and it has definitely shown to be effective. We have also talked about foster situations for the dogs, etc, but those have not been implemented yet. From what I have heard, there is an adjustment period where these animals are learning to use stairs, etc, but these animals generally learn to accept the home-life very quickly and make great companions.

 

[ilovecows17]

Also, the staff does nothing to work with the dogs behaviorally--so they are not very good adoption candidates.

-This is false. I know multiple beagles from Tufts that have been adopted out and are doing very well in their new homes. I've only known of one that had an issue, and it was running away constantly- not the same sorts of issues you hear from typical laboratory dogs. The time spent at Tufts is very useful for getting the dogs used to things like wearing collars, having names, being in playgroups with other dogs, going up and down stairs, learning basic commands, etc., I and I fully credit Tufts and things like the HAR dog walking program for allowing these beagles to be so much more successful in companion homes than dogs that are adopted out from research facilities.

The administration at Tufts has listened to the concerns presented by the students, and like another poster mentioned, there was even time taken out of HAR class time to discuss it.

As far as being "conscripted" and not a volunteer- you are a volunteer. Tufts isn't prison. If you don't like it, you are welcome to leave at any time. You actually pay them money to attend the school and there are plenty of people who were rejected who would happily pay the same money in your place even if it meant walking a beagle once a week. There are parts of classes you're not going to like that you will have to do to pass the class for the next three years. Honestly I think walking a beagle once a week as part of a class titled "Human Animal Relations" is pretty fitting. In a class that discusses what rights humans have to use animals for things like experimentation and teaching and explores relationships between various pets, food animals, lab animals, working animals and people, I don't think it is out of place to spend time with a dog who doesn't have a comfy couch to sleep on and a family because he has to first make a sacrifice and spend two years letting vet students poke at him to earn it. Oh yeah, and he does it for more than fifteen minutes to an hour a week. It's his life.

The idea is that students usually have from 12-1 to attend lunch talks. However, sometimes we have class until 12:30, or you have to walk your beagle, or class runs over, or there aren't lunch talks and you just eat or go home. Realistically I don't know anyone who has found a lunch talk of interest EVERY SINGLE DAY, so trading a day with a group member to walk the beagle for you while you go to a presentation isn't that difficult. I also know that many of the dog walkers only walk their beagle for about 15 minutes, which is understandable sometimes because we are all busy and there is NO PENALTY for doing that. The beagle walking program is incredibly flexible and I feel like it is only disorganized if you can't put the time into making/reading a Google doc. I can't imagine people with their own dogs have a lot of trouble finding a solution for one day a week, though I admit it would be very inconvenient. I live far enough away from campus that an hour isn't reasonably enough time to run home and let my dog out, and that was my choice There are other days that people with dogs probably can't go home due to lunch talks, class schedules, or having things to do on campus, too. I fully have faith that there are ways to work around this, and the student community is strong enough that I think if someone needed a classmate to go let their dog out for them, it'd be easy to find a volunteer.

Tufts is a fantastic school. I love it here, and so do most of the members of my class (V17, same as OP) that I know. We have unique experiences with various species of animals that I know aren't available at other universities. We have professors who can be tough, but do care about your success as a student and a doctor. There are numerous opportunities to be involved in the wildlife clinic and the teaching hospital, as well as teach after school programs in area public schools and pursue pretty much anything you want that is veterinary-related for selective credit (if you can't find something on the long list of available selectives pre-structured by Tufts).

I consider myself very lucky to have been selected to admission to Tufts. Realistically there will be things at every veterinary school that you won't like, but there are also going to be parts of being a veterinarian that aren't going to be your favorite, too. My experience at Tufts so far has been fantastic, and I'd highly recommend it to anyone who is looking for a well-rounded, professional veterinary education.

 

[dyachei]

Just a friendly reminder from your mod staff to review the Terms of Service and keep all comments civil. Personal attacks are not permitted. Lively debate is fine, just keep it from getting out of hand.

 

[Maureen McDermott]

Thanks for keeping us in the loop, Chimera. This is disappointing to read, especially since I felt tufts was honest and always had the best interests of its students in mind.

So to clarify, first year students are required to walk dogs once a week during their lunch hour? Or is it multiple times a week? Otherwise they fail a class? I'm disappointed to hear about the lack of respect and response to student concerns on this matter. I'm assuming others feel the same? Any other current tufts students have an opinion on this?

Edit: I would love to walk the dogs/volunteer to care for them. It's probably a nice break for students, too! That doesn't bother me one bit. I would only be concerned about how faculty handles student concerns/suggestions.

The faculty here is wonderful. Every year, they take all of our suggestions and comments and change things in the curriculum to make it a better learning environment. This person clearly has some deeper seeded personal issues. Tufts is amazing and 99.9% of us love it here. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions about our school - I promise to reply with full honesty, not blatant bias like this particular person..

Sincerely,
Maureen McDermott, V15 (Tufts)

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Basically you will conscripted (as in, you will fail the badly taught HAR class if you refuse) to walk the school dogs about 1x a week for a year, and this will mostly have to occur during the 12-1pm lunch time.

Unfortunately, we were not warned about this before we came. So people who brought dogs expected to have this time to go home and walk their own dogs (as they were told during interviews). Some people had to hire dog-walkers for their own dogs (not awesome), so that they could walk dogs that Tufts is too cheap to care for properly.

I know some of you will be confused about why this is bad, since walking dogs should be fun, right? Unfortunately it's about 10 hours of walking dogs, about another 10 hours of a paper-writing and organizing dog walking for your group. Also, the staff does nothing to work with the dogs behaviorally--so they are not very good adoption candidates. (Yes, I asked the professional behaviorist.)

Additionally, the admin basically ignored all complaints that it was not educational, that it was poorly managed and the ethical qualms that you should not use your authority to conscript students for your own personal agendas. So it really showcased the insular, unresponsive, and habit of stone-walling student concerns.

And, make no mistake--you will get nothing out of this educationally.

You probably won't even HAVE lunch in fourth year. You may be physically at the hospital for 48 hours straight at times. You may be working 90+ hour weeks on some rotations with NO compensation. You need to let your animals out? Too bad, you have a patient. You want to go to a talk? Too bad, you have a patient. You want to go home and see your SO/kids/whatever? Too bad, you have a patient. If you can't deal with 15 minutes once a week, you're in for quite a surprise come fourth year.

At least 50% of what you guys do your clinical year (and this applies to every school) will be conscription to basic care and even scutwork that you won't learn much from besides humility and work ethic. The techs and nurses aren't gonna do it for you. You don't only get to do the cool stuff. You'll be doing ice packs and cleaning up pee and vomit, feeding and watering, endless ROM on ortho pts, walking, etc. Stuff you will likely assign to kennel staff, assistants, and techs when you graduate. And you'll pay tuition for it, just like every year. That's how it works. That is how teaching hospitals operate. They couldn't afford to provide the diagnostics and services they do without the "free labor" of vet students, which then directly translates into the ability to educate you via classes, procedures, specialists, etc.

15 minutes once a week is nothing. Should it have been made clear to the students beforehand? Yes. But I feel like there is a lot more whining about being told to do something you don't want to do under the cover of blaming the administration for not making it clear.

And posting a "warning" like this is, by the way, rather immature. There are many other more professional ways to go about it before spouting off on a (conveniently anonymous) online forum.

 

[prevet]

I am a Tufts V17 student and I can't see how admin did anything wrong here. They didn't tell us while we were applying that we would have to walk dogs once a week but why would they when it is one small commitment of many more to come? There's no way that they can let you know everything that will be expected of you before you sign up and when we raised concerns they responded. In fact, I have never gone to a school that was so responsive to student concerns.

 

[Ktyler]

I feel that I have a responsibility as a Tufts student to convey what has been my personal experience with the Tufts veterinary administration. Last year, I was a third year student. However, some personal and medical issues arose that resulted in me having lower than average grades. Up until that point, I was doing well. I mean, I wasn't number one in the class or anything, but I did reasonably ok. There came a point in the late fall semester where it became obvious to me and the administration that if I didn't take time off to sort out these issues, I probably wouldn't make it through vet school. Let me make myself very clear when I say they could not have been more helpful. It is a demoralizing and somewhat humiliating situation when you realize you have to take time off, but the administration helped me every step of the way. Though out the year, when I was taking the time off, they would e-mail me to see how I was doing. Taking a leave of absence required lots of communication about various different things (loans, ect.) and every e-mail I wrote was responded to within the hour. The administration didn't have to do this. They do not have any obligation to help anyone stay in school. In fact, from what I've heard, many schools don't give a rat's ass why you are doing poorly. If you can't make the cut, then you are out. Tufts worked with me to make sure that I could complete my veterinary education. I am back again as a third year, and since all of those issues were addressed, I am doing just fine. The administration invests in their students and realizes that some people have bumps in the road, but that's no reason to throw them out of the race. FYI, I just came up with that analogy, and I am pretty proud of myself. So, with all of the talk above about Tufts lying and whatnot, since I have personally worked quite closely with many individuals in the administration, I felt a responsibility to describe my experience. Kate Tyler V'15

 

[yogapony]

I have to say....I'm impressed by all of the Tufts students who took the time to stick up for their school. I didn't apply to Tufts, so all of this obviously won't have any direct impact on me, but I like to think that whichever school I DO choose to attend will make me as passionate about it as these current Tufts students are about theirs.