Top 30 Undergrad vs. State School: My Firsthand Experience

[efle]

Who's whining? Most of the people on this site are the ones who are doing great in school. We can both get good grades and be shocked by the gap in rigor between universities.

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[Ace Khalifa]

The goog to the rescue:

1. a small settlement, generally one smaller than a village.

I was making a joke about he was the most special person in his whole high school class of 50 people. I actually saw this happen twice, another guy on my freshman floor was from a very rural area and had apparently never met people as smart as him. He went from cocky to defeated to a nice, humble guy as the semester progressed...thanks Kitty Mao Mao (chemlab midterm was what really broke him).

Good ol' Kit Mao lololol. Both chem labs were my least favorite of the premed requirements and my lowest premed class grades. At leas they were only 2 credits each.

 

[redpanda]

The issue here is the people that can get into Harvard that choose an easy school. Chances he can do well on the MCAT are high and chances he could get good high grades is very high.

Oh honey, not everyone wants to go to Harvard.

 

[moop]

Oh honey, not everyone wants to go to Harvard.

...because they can't get in...

 

[redpanda]

...because they can't get in...

Or, they don't want to pay $$$ to deal with the insufferable amount of entitlement in the student body who believes the name of their school should get them extra points in all kind of activities in life (interviews, dating, social life).

 

[moop]

Or, they don't want to pay $$$ to deal with the insufferable amount of entitlement in the student body who believes the name of their school should get them extra points in all kind of activities in life (interviews, dating, social life).

Or they could've realized that if their parents made under $150,000 with modest assets, Harvard would've been cheaper than almost every other college option they had.
Also, they could've realized that there are cocky, entitled douchebags at every college, that merely attending Harvard does not make a person as such, and that anecdotal evidence about that "one Harvard guy" someone knows doesn't say jack sh*it about the school.
They could've also realized that perhaps one of the key reasons they look down on the school is precisely the fact that they are confused by the application process, perplexed by what it takes to navigate that process successfully, and maybe come to terms with their sour grapes, cheap shot elitist bashing impression of the school.

 

[LAtoDavis]

Or, they don't want to pay $$$ to deal with the insufferable amount of entitlement in the student body who believes the name of their school should get them extra points in all kind of activities in life (interviews, dating, social life).

I met a Harvard alumna over the weekend at an interview. We were assigned to work in groups for a project, and before we (5 other people) had the chance to discuss the project, she interjected and started telling everyone what to do in a rude and condescending way. I've never seen such an entitled attitude in my entire life. The med student overseeing our work was giving her dirty looks behind her back, too. She dragged down the group to make herself look good, and our group came in last place for the assignment. The only way you feel comfortable acting like she did (during a med school interview group scenario, of all places) is if you feel superior to other people.

 

[Earl Simmons]

Because, you know, all state schools are the same and aren't difficult. Like Michigan and Okhalahoma.

 

[totu22]

I met a Harvard alumna over the weekend at an interview. We were assigned to work in groups for a project, and before we (5 other people) had the chance to discuss the project, she interjected and started telling everyone what to do in a rude and condescending way. I've never seen such an entitled attitude in my entire life. The med student overseeing our work was giving her dirty looks behind her back, too. She dragged down the group to make herself look good, and our group came in last place for the assignment. The only way you feel comfortable acting like she did (during a med school interview group scenario, of all places) is if you feel superior to other people.

Jeeze sounds like Harvard isn't so good after all.

 

[LAtoDavis]

Jeeze sounds like Harvard isn't so good after all.

The point is that people more frequently have "anecdotal evidence about that 'one Harvard guy' " stories about Ivy League alumni than those about other public/non-Ivy private alums.

... that merely attending Harvard does not make a person as such, and that anecdotal evidence about that "one Harvard guy" someone knows doesn't say jack sh*it about the school

 

[Lucca]

Eh..... Even as a premed, college is a time to explore as many different academic fields as is humanely possible.

Medicine would be a much better field if premeds didn't completely waste 4 years on doing nothing extra but what's necessary to get into medical school. (Yes, I said "waste.") Boxes them into a corner that is 1) disastrous when they can't get in, and 2) not conducive to intellectual diversity and the generation of new ideas once in medical school. Something about medicine despising change comes to mind....

Strongly agree. However, it's important to note that medicine (and higher education in general) was once much less angular than it is. I see a lot of top med schools now (Ivies + JHU, etc) re-emphasizing a broad, liberal arts education on their admissions requirements or even creating different curriculum streams for different type of students. I think the latter is the better way to do things; different strokes for different folks and whatnot.

I recommend you read Lewis Thomas' essay, "How to Fix the Premedical Curriculum." I don't agree with everything in it but in spirit I agree very strongly. Pre-medical education should *not* be "pre-medical" education - it should be an education.

 

[efle]

Because, you know, all state schools are the same and aren't difficult. Like Michigan and Okhalahoma.

As has been stated many times before, the really good places (the best of the UCali, Chap Hill, Virginia or Mich etc) are not what were talking about - state school means average state school.

Jeeze sounds like Harvard isn't so good after all.

I totally agree that top schools have a higher frequency of cocky entitled kids, but they also have some seriously impressive brainpower which backs it up. The benefits of being in an environment of such high caliber students outweighs their personality flaws, just like spending time with lots of neurotic premeds.

 

[moop]

Jeeze sounds like Harvard isn't so good after all.

Yes. Because one arrogant girl speaks to the quality of the entire school.

 

[totu22]

I was being sarcastic. I'm sure anecdotes like this can present any school in a similar light.

 

[efle]

i was being sarcastic. I'm sure anecdotes like this can present any school in a similar light.

damn it man, stick a /s on there for those of us who dont pick up tone well in text

 

[moop]

damn it man, stick a /s on there for those of us who dont pick up tone well in text

Lol more like get an avatar picture. I strongly associate a lack of avatar with inexperience with SDN, and hence added propensity to actually say stupid sh*it and mean it. But actually.

 

[totu22]

damn it man, stick a /s on there for those of us who dont pick up tone well in text

haha yeah I should have realized sarcasm/tone can be difficult to interpret through text.

 

[GaiusOctavius]

So earlier this year I graduated from a top 30 undergraduate university with a low GPA (3.21), so this Fall I began a DIY post-bacc program at my local State College in order to improve my GPA...I am taking five upper level biology courses, each with a laboratory component. 28 hours of class/lab a week in total.

At my alma mater, taking five laboratory courses in one semester would have been suicide. In fact, the premedical advisers strongly urged students to never take more than ONE lab course a semester since they were notoriously difficult...Taking five science courses, lab or not, was just unheard of.

Nevertheless, I have a high A average in each of these classes at the moment, with my lowest exam grade being a 97%. It sounds pretentious, but it is the objective truth that I am unambiguously the #1 student in each of my classes in terms of grades, class participation, and mastery over the material. Moreover, I am pulling off these grades with minimal effort. I only study for a couple hours the night before the exams, and I ace them with ease while my state-school classmates bemoan how "impossible" the courses are. I should note that I have never taken these classes before. They represent 100% brand-new material to me.

In short, I am utterly SHOCKED by the disparity in rigor between my alma mater, which isn't even top 20 (though our SAT scores are), and this average state school. I mean, a senior level biochemistry course at this state school isn't even half as difficult as the introductory biology course taken by freshmen at my alma mater. Having experienced both schools firsthand, it is absolutely MIND-BOGGLING and disturbing to me that GPA's from these two establishments are supposedly given the same weight. Whenever one of my state-school classmates tells me that he/she is planning on going to medical school, I smile and nod as I die a little bit on the inside knowing that they may have a statistically better shot than me even though they struggle with basic concepts of the sciences.

What. the. ****.

Wow! The number 1 student in every class at your state school? You're clearly exceptional. How did you do on the MCAT? You must have fallen in the 95th+ percentile, right? The MCAT is the great equalizer. Anyone can claim that their tests/classes were harder. Every entitled kid will feel that way. The MCAT is the only common metric. Did admissions ignore your exceptional score?

Exact same experience here. Went to undergraduate where there was no free handouts and then my state school to take 4 courses the past year and a half. Their highest level "Molecular Neurobiology" bio class with graduate students was easier than my freshman Bio 101 course. Getting a 98% was as easy as a couple hours on the weekends. I mean, I was working full time and volunteering at nights. At least the LOR said I was the best student he's had in years...that counts for something I guess

Yet it really sucks that the state school.kids I know were mid 20's MCAT and average GPA's in Biology are in second year med school already and I'm 3.5 sGPA/32 and still stuck as a premed despite 3 years real world med experience. Where's my violin to play me a sad song....

I would not want you as my doctor. You're making bold assumptions that are simply untrue. There's no way that tons of kids from your state school were getting into medical school with mid-20 MCAT scores and average GPAs. One look at the MSAR/AAMC website, shows that the average MCAT for matriculates is much higher than that (~32 or 33).
This is pure entitlement. "I got bad grades... It's all my schools fault... I deserve to be in medical school because my school is harder than every other school... Kids at other schools don't really deserve their good grades as much as me... Kids at state schools must have scored lower than me on the MCAT (and still been accepted to medical school) even though I have no evidence to support such a claim.."

I agree and no worries, I wholeheartedly which I could transfer to another school. But I can't, so I'll just spend two years after undergrad pretending like I matured when my courses just got significantly easier. I'm just bitter that a person with an 18 ACT can get As at a **** school for identifying the end of a mechanism.

"Bitter" sounds about right. Entitled, arrogant, misguided, or immature would also work well.

Yes. Because one arrogant girl speaks to the quality of the entire school.

Yes. Because one arrogant boy can attest to the difficulty of every state school.

As has been stated many times before, the really good places (the best of the UCali, Chap Hill, Virginia or Mich etc) are not what were talking about - state school means average state school.

Even if you're not talking about these "really good places," you're simply not qualified to comment or attest to the difficulty of every class in the hundreds of 4-year colleges in the U.S..

Who's whining? Most of the people on this site are the ones who are doing great in school. We can both get good grades and be shocked by the gap in rigor between universities.

Provide us with a study that shows there is a substantial gap in rigor between universities. A study on grade-deflation? Otherwise, this forum reads as a group of children incapable of taking responsibility for their own sub-par performance and trying to find some sense of self-worth by bashing other schools. It's simple; the MCAT levels the playing field. If you're an "exceptional" student (better than everyone at state schools), you'll blow them out of the water on the MCAT and get into your dream school.

 

[moop]

Yes. Because one arrogant boy can attest to the difficulty of every state school.

The nerve. Did you read? I didn't bash anything about state schools. Please read:

It doesn't matter. If those friends really had the big guns, they'd whip it out on the MCAT. If they don't, then "I have bad grades bc my classmates are way smart" is just a lame excuse.

Going to a rigorous top school makes the biggest difference in admissions when you perform above a certain threshold (3.6ish? Debatable ofc). Adcoms won't hold the GPA against you, you'll probably be able to kill the MCAT, and you have the orgy of opportunities that most state schoolers just couldn't touch

Once you get past those thresholds, it's all history. No secrets as to why Yale applicants average 3.8/34 and around 50-60 of them matriculate to the top 20 med schools every year. (All publicly available data I've cited in previous posts if anyone's curious.)

 

[moop]

Provide us with a study that shows there is a substantial gap in rigor between universities. A study on grade-deflation? Otherwise, this forum reads as a group of children incapable of taking responsibility for their own sub-par performance and trying to find some sense of self-worth by bashing other schools. It's simple; the MCAT levels the playing field. If you're an "exceptional" student (better than everyone at state schools), you'll blow them out of the water on the MCAT and get into your dream school.

Fu*cking premeds. Not everything needs to be studied via a study. Think (I know it's difficult, but try): who would support such a study and for what purpose? SDN gratification? c'mon. Not everything can be studied with an academic study. You don't sound smart trying to citecheck people's goddamn opinions.

Not here to comment on whether state schools suck, but I guarantee you that there is "a substantial gap in rigor among schools." As a starting point, we can use average applicant MCATs as a marker of academic achievement among premeds, which teases out the rigor in science courses at schools. If rigor is the same at all schools and material is standardized, there should not be huge gaps of >3 points among applicants once you control for the few bad apples in every sample (i.e., there are slackers at every school, and arguing that the entire difference in MCAT score can be attributed to lazy people is not cogent).

Also, someone seems upset. Boohoo. Would you like a cookie? Perhaps some milk?

 

[GaiusOctavius]

The nerve. Did you read? I didn't bash anything about state schools. Please read:

I wasn't calling you arrogant. "Redpanda" was misguided in suggesting that a sense of entitlement dominates at Harvard, but how would you describe those on the thread claiming that state schools are a joke?

 

[efle]

I wasn't calling you arrogant. "Redpanda" was misguided in suggesting that a sense of entitlement dominates at Harvard, but how would you describe those on the thread claiming that state schools are a joke?

Don't be so defensive man, its only the subjective experiences of everyone I've ever talked to that's experienced both, plus major gaps in academic metrics like the SAT which provide us any support. I'm sure your experience competing with people at the 60th percentile is no different than MIT. Andlike I said before, plenty of people make these comments wwithout trying to justify poor grades. You can have a 4.0 and still feel that your state school class waseasier than anything at your top school.

Also, consider honors colleges in state schools, whose members tend to have stats comparable to students at top 20s. If the difference between universities is negligible, you'd expect only a quarter or so of honors peeps to make 3.7+ GPAs since about a quarter of students at top non inflated do. Shocker - almost all honors college students do exceedingly well and a lot more than a quarter of them make laude.

 

[caxoo]

Or, they don't want to pay $$$ to deal with the insufferable amount of entitlement in the student body who believes the name of their school should get them extra points in all kind of activities in life (interviews, dating, social life).

The grapes they serve there are sour anyway

 

[GaiusOctavius]

Fu*cking premeds. Not everything needs to be studied via a study. Think (I know it's difficult, but try): who would support such a study and for what purpose? SDN gratification? c'mon). Not everything can be studied with an academic study. You don't sound smart trying to citecheck people's goddamn opinions.

Not here to comment on whether state schools suck, but I guarantee you that there is "a substantial gap in rigor among schools." As a starting point, we can use average applicant MCATs as a marker of academic achievement among premeds, which teases out the rigor in science courses at schools. If rigor is the same at all schools and material is standardized, there should not be huge gaps of >3 points among applicants once you control for the few bad apples in every sample (i.e., there are slackers at every school, and arguing that the entire difference in MCAT score can be attributed to lazy people is not cogent).

Also, someone seems upset. Boohoo. Would you like a cookie? Perhaps some milk?

Academic Medicine might be interested in such a study. I can also think of valid purposes for such a study. I'm surprised that you can't. I'm not trying to "sound smart." My point is that claims suggesting Bio I at a state school is substantially easier than Bio I at a top 10 school, are simply inaccurate. Look at the OPs claim and other comments on the thread, and then ask yourself who's upset, crying and asking for a cookie...

 

[moop]

Academic Medicine might be interested in such a study. I can also think of valid purposes for such a study. I'm surprised that you can't. I'm not trying to "sound smart." My point is that claims suggesting Bio I at a state school is substantially easier than Bio I at a top 10 school, are simply inaccurate. Look at the OPs claim and other comments on the thread, and then ask yourself who's upset, crying and asking for a cookie...

You realize...that traditional "Bio I" doesn't even exist at a lot of top 10 schools because no one really takes them as most people interested in the sciences come in with AP and redoing the material is frowned upon by these institutions? Just a thought.

 

[efle]

My point is that claims suggesting Bio I at a state school is substantially easier than Bio I at a top 10 school, are simply inaccurate..

Nope. Just nope. You have no idea how different the year of biology at a top school is. Its curved so you are competing against your peers, not the test, and it is considerably harder in how it is tested. many courses post their exams online in PDF form, try comparing final exams from MIT and Hopkins against Uni Southern Illinois or U Hawaii etc

 

[GaiusOctavius]

Don't be so defensive man, its only the subjective experiences of everyone I've ever talked to that's experienced both, plus major gaps in academic metrics like the SAT which provide us any support. I'm sure your experience competing with people at the 60th percentile is no different than MIT. Andlike I said before, plenty of people make these comments wwithout trying to justify poor grades. You can have a 4.0 and still feel that your state school class waseasier than anything at your top school.

Also, consider honors colleges in state schools, whose members tend to have stats comparable to students at top 20s. If the difference between universities is negligible, you'd expect only a quarter or so of honors peeps to make 3.7+ GPAs since about a quarter of students at top non inflated do. Shocker - almost all honors college students do exceedingly well and a lot more than a quarter of them make laude.

Do top 15 schools have lots and lots of kids who did exceptional on the SAT? Sure. Do state schools have kids who did well on the SAT. Yup. Does that necessarily mean that classes must be more difficult at top 15 schools? Nope. Even within a particular school some classes are easier than others. Some professors are harder than others. My state school had professors that administered difficult exams and didn't curve. There were classes in which no one received an "A." I'm not getting defensive. But the assertions on here are simply untrue.

Also, our honors college had minimum gpa requirements to remain in the honors college. Consequently, everyone who actually graduated through the honors college had high GPAs.

 

[Graywolf]

.

 

[moop]

Do top 15 schools have lots and lots of kids who did exceptional on the SAT? Sure. Do state schools have kids who did well on the SAT. Yup. Does that necessarily mean that classes must be more difficult at top 15 schools? Nope. Even within a particular school some classes are easier than others. Some professors are harder than others. My state school had professors that administered difficult exams and didn't curve. There were classes in which no one received an "A." I'm not getting defensive. But the assertions on here are simply untrue.

Also, our honors college had minimum gpa requirements to remain in the honors college. Consequently, everyone who actually graduated through the honors college had high GPAs.

Stop comparing your cream of the crop to the average top school kid. That's not what people are interested in. The top 5% (honors college, whatever) at any state school can measure di*cks with elitist school students. Hell, the top kids from any old university may be able to come close. What people are talking about here is the aggregate, on average. Your argument reads like "Well we also have high achievers and hard classes, so stop saying our school sucks." Fair. But when you actually want to talk about average quality, there's no comparison. If there were, how come good ol' state schools don't send hoards into top med schools? Don't tell me it's all name recognition on behalf of the adcoms; we know from SDN that name only gets you so far.

More students at top schools perform better in more rigorous classes at top schools than do those who attend a regular, funky school. If you're cream of the crop, that's great; you'll be competitive against (and maybe even beat) a lot of elitists; but it doesn't mean there's no substantial difference between these tiers of schools.

 

[redpanda]

Or they could've realized that if their parents made under $150,000 with modest assets, Harvard would've been cheaper than almost every other college option they had.
Also, they could've realized that there are cocky, entitled douchebags at every college, that merely attending Harvard does not make a person as such, and that anecdotal evidence about that "one Harvard guy" someone knows doesn't say jack sh*it about the school.
They could've also realized that perhaps one of the key reasons they look down on the school is precisely the fact that they are confused by the application process, perplexed by what it takes to navigate that process successfully, and maybe come to terms with their sour grapes, cheap shot elitist bashing impression of the school.

Harvard MAY have been cheaper than any other college option they had. If they got in. Again, I repeat, not everyone wants to go to Harvard/whatever and they're not stupid for not wanting it.

Yes, of course there are entitled people at every college, but to think that living in an environment where one is constantly told you're the cream of the crop doesn't affect how you behave and doesn't give you a sense of entitlement is naive. How many people on this thread have complained those "state school" kids taking their spots (because it was really their spot to start with) with such shocking academic credentials as if the MCAT weren't leveling the field quite a bit?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Ayo @moop, I want a cookie!
Oatmeal raisin is preferable

 

[GaiusOctavius]

Stop comparing your cream of the crop to the average top school kid. That's not what people are interested in. The top 5% (honors college, whatever) at any state school can measure di*cks with elitist school students. Hell, the top kids from any old university may be able to come close. What people are talking about here is the aggregate, on average. Your argument reads like "Well we also have high achievers and hard classes, so stop saying our school sucks." Fair. But when you actually want to talk about average quality, there's no comparison. If there were, how come good ol' state schools don't send hoards into top med schools? Don't tell me it's all name recognition on behalf of the adcoms; we know from SDN that name only gets you so far.

More students at top schools perform better in more rigorous classes at top schools than do those who attend a regular, funky school. If you're cream of the crop, that's great; you'll be competitive against (and maybe even beat) a lot of elitists; but it doesn't mean there's no substantial difference between these tiers of schools.

LOL. I'm not talking about quality and I'm not comparing the programs. The average SAT at a top 10 school is definitely higher than a school ranked 150 on US news. It doesn't mean that the student who had a 3.0 at the top 10 would have had a 4.0, taking the exact same classes, at the school ranked 150. It just doesn't.

Hey GaiusOctavius,

I'll take care of your comment in full after work - cause I have a life and don't have my thumb up my a** to nay say and burn everyone who is giving their PERSONAL experience. Let me say this: (1) Never call a person you do not know arrogant and claim they will not make a good doctor (2) You don't even know what specific program I am referring to. Get your head out of your books/stats and go smell the roses of the real world. Who cares about "evidence to support a claim" when I have anecdotal experience on numerous accounts ABOUT A SPECIFIC STATE PROGRAM.

But you have the time to comment on how you were the "best student in years" in some random class at a state school? Thanks for taking the time to provide the world with that valuable bit of information... I never called you arrogant. Sorry to hurt your feelings. Don't waste your time replying. I'm done with this thread. Wish you all the best.

 

[moop]

LOL. I'm not talking about quality and I'm not comparing the programs. The average SAT at a top 10 school is definitely higher than a school ranked 150 on US news. It doesn't mean that the student who had a 3.0 at the top 10 would have had a 4.0, taking the exact same classes, at the school ranked 150. It just doesn't.

It doesn't, and neither does it mean that the 3.0 would have stayed at exactly a 3.0 at a state school. Guess what? State schools aren't the only ones where some classes may artificially deflate grades in comparison to the pool. If you agree that the average quality of a student at a top school is much better (however defined, blah blah) than someone at a state school, there's no avoiding the conclusion that grades are harder to come by in a room filled with 2300 SAT scorers than a room with average Joes.

No one here is looking for mass generalizations besides you. Your insistence that everything proceeds exactly in a uniform, one-line fashion is of utmost inaccuracy. We are (or at least, I am) saying that there is a sliding scale of likelihood (depending on a range of factors) that grades would have been higher at a state school. Refuting this absolutely is just erroneous, regardless of where you attended school. plz

 

[moop]

Ayo @moop, I want a cookie!
Oatmeal raisin is preferable

 

[moop]

Harvard MAY have been cheaper than any other college option they had. If they got in. Again, I repeat, not everyone wants to go to Harvard/whatever and they're not stupid for not wanting it.

Yes, of course there are entitled people at every college, but to think that living in an environment where one is constantly told you're the cream of the crop doesn't affect how you behave and doesn't give you a sense of entitlement is naive. How many people on this thread have complained those "state school" kids taking their spots (because it was really their spot to start with) with such shocking academic credentials as if the MCAT weren't leveling the field quite a bit?

Spoken like a graduate from one of these schools in question, I hope?

Otherwise, the joke's on you for being naive and not recognizing that besides those who come from really rich households (and EVEN those who do), top school students can still be very humble, understand that they're in a position not to be taken for granted, and thus really take advantage of the resources they have. The kids who rolled into these places based on Daddy's friend in the admissions office don't come out on top because they didn't know or care to maximize the advantages their school offered them. The ones we see who are really successful from these places are typically (again, typically, not always) the non-cocky ones who know their privileged position is not to be taken lightly. Even the ones who DID get in based on money, who DID use all their connections to get ahead in life, even THEY STILL NEED TO BE HUMBLE ENOUGH to actually use the resources granted to them. The truly cocky and entitled don't do this; if they did, THEY WOULDN'T ACTUALLY FEEL "ENTITLED" OK. You would know this if you attended one of these schools.

P.S. I never called anyone stupid. Just woefully misinformed and prejudiced based on anecdotally "proven" folklore.

P.P.S. "How many people on this thread have complained..." LOLOLOL. If you're using SDN as your sample to judge people...then that's. just. so. pathetically. sad. Especially as an MS4. plz

 

[toostressful]

I'm just a member of a lowly state school so I can't offer much in terms of comparing the two. However, I will say I find it funny when people with an MCAT in the ~32 range fancy themselves the best student to ever grace a school such as mine.

 

[Rhino1000]

Can you list some of the classes you are taking? I took my prerequisite classes at a COMMUNITY college, and yet I don't find a large disparity in rigor even compared to a top engineering program that I am currently enrolled in. I felt challenged in both cases, and didn't easily coast to straight As at the community college despite doing very well with a challenging yet comparable (creditwise) courseload at my current institution... IS it possible you are overestimating the supposed rigor of the classes you are taking (in terms of how difficult the classes ought to be)?

 

[Narmerguy]

People are thinking way too much about this. The students in my class who come from "non top schools" are not struggling or in any way deficient compared to the ivy league students. I honestly can't tell the difference, everyone is smart, everyone works hard, everyone does what they need to get their work done and succeed. For some that takes more work than others, hell I'm probably one of the worst, but it all gets done in the end. Stay in your lane.

 

[wanderer]

From my experiences as a pre-med applying to med schools from a lowly ranked state school, I can tell you some top schools did not take me seriously because of my undergrad, and I had a 4.0 and excellent MCAT. So no a 3.8 from lowly state school is not equivalent to a 3.8 or even a 3.6 from a top school.

 

[mcloaf]

People are thinking way too much about this. The students in my class who come from "non top schools" are not struggling or in any way deficient compared to the ivy league students. I honestly can't tell the difference, everyone is smart, everyone works hard, everyone does what they need to get their work done and succeed. For some that takes more work than others, hell I'm probably one of the worst, but it all gets done in the end. Stay in your lane.

This has been my experience as well.

 

[estanton]

From my experiences as a pre-med applying to med schools from a lowly ranked state school, I can tell you some top schools did not take me seriously because of my undergrad, and I had a 4.0 and excellent MCAT. So no a 3.8 from lowly state school is not equivalent to a 3.8 or even a 3.6 from a top school.

I've had the opposite experience. People have been impressed that I could do things from my undergrad. I guess I should wait for acceptance confirmation but unless they are pity interviews I'm doing fine.

Obviously we cannot know the difference it makes. It obviously makes one. Go somewhere. Do well with what you have.

 

[allantois]

What's the point of this thread?

If average state schools were unable to produce good medical students (and I believe it has to do with the student and not the school), medical schools would have long stopped admitting students from those schools. You have a bachelor's degree from an ivy? Great! Save it until you can hang it on the wall of your office for patients to see.

 

[soccerman93]

I've had the opposite experience. People have been impressed that I could do things from my undergrad. I guess I should wait for acceptance confirmation but unless they are pity interviews I'm doing fine.

Obviously we cannot know the difference it makes. It obviously makes one. Go somewhere. Do well with what you have.

Haha, same. I'll drop my UG institution at interviews and I'll get something to the effect of "wow, its impressive you got here." Bit of a back handed compliment but I take what I can get

 

[Hermione L Knope MD. Ph.D]

Oh geez... Not this thread again

 

[keenemd]

The MCAT is widely known as "the great equalizer" and meant to give admissions staff a standard to measure students from different institutions. That is the point of any similar standardized test for that matter. The issue, however, is that undergraduate GPA is considered as important or slightly more important than the MCAT in admissions decisions.

This discrepancy is especially problematic at students that attend schools that deflate grades but don't have quite the same name recognition as Princeton or MIT, for example. A student from Boston University with a 32 MCAT and 3.2 GPA will have a much harder time than someone from a noncompetitive state school with a 28 and 3.8 despite the vast gulf in difficulty of the two institutions. This leads to many of these students from grade deflationary schools to attend expensive post-bac programs to inflate their GPAs and buy their way into medical schools, apply to more schools than they otherwise would have to, or give up on medical school altogether.

This is also not mentioning the fact that many in the bottom 50% of classes with curves to B- or C+ will drop pre-med even though many of them would have done just fine at weaker institutions (based on average SATs and high school class ranks of students of top schools).

 

[efle]

Yup, looking at the numbers reveals how unfair the whole system can be, with many of the people weeded out at top schools having turned down invites to honors colleges at state schools where they would have been predicted to sit at the top of the class.

 

[Jumb0]

OP here....wow, guys, I was actually wrong the whole time! It turns out that all colleges are identical in terms of rigor and all college students are equally intelligent and capable! How could I be so blind! The only reason top 20 students get better MCAT scores than state schoolers and community college kids is that the mcat is just not as well suited to the style of test taking of the state schoolers! They are 100% equal in content knowledge, reasoning ability, and general intelligence, it's just that the MCAT is not suited to their learning style! How ignorant of me to assume that they did worse because they were dumber!

Given this epiphany I have just had, it's absolutely amazing how much I have inexplicably IMPROVED ever since I made the switch from top undergrad school to state school. I went from a B student to a straight A student overnight! It must be something in the water I've been drinking! It was so silly of me to think that it might be due to a pattern of gross disparity in rigor between institutions that correlates with ranking...how foolish I was! I see now that the difficulty is IDENTICAL. It's just that I have made a massive inexplicable self improvement in my abilities as a scholar!

Sorry for ever doubting you, State School Nation!

 

[Rhino1000]

I wonder if it would surprise anyone if I told them that every single person that I know that scored 34+ on their ACT or 1500+ SAT CR+M elected not to go to one of HYP, and company. These are also people who are/were highly involved in sports and other extracurriculars, and would have been able to if they wanted to.

By the way, I know at least 10 such people.

 

[mcloaf]

OP here....wow, guys, I was actually wrong the whole time! It turns out that all colleges are identical in terms of rigor and all college students are equally intelligent and capable! How could I be so blind! The only reason top 20 students get better MCAT scores than state schoolers and community college kids is that the mcat is just not as well suited to the style of test taking of the state schoolers! They are 100% equal in content knowledge, reasoning ability, and general intelligence, it's just that the MCAT is not suited to their learning style! How ignorant of me to assume that they did worse because they were dumber!

Given this epiphany I have just had, it's absolutely amazing how much I have inexplicably IMPROVED ever since I made the switch from top undergrad school to state school. I went from a B student to a straight A student overnight! It must be something in the water I've been drinking! It was so silly of me to think that it might be due to a pattern of gross disparity in rigor between institutions that correlates with ranking...how foolish I was! I see now that the difficulty is IDENTICAL. It's just that I have made a massive inexplicable self improvement in my abilities as a scholar!

Sorry for ever doubting you, State School Nation!

Good luck with that 3.2

 

[PantherPride]

Good luck with that 3.2

I'm sure it was a blow to his ego. Thankfully he found a way to reaffirm his intellelectual superiority by schooling us lowly state school students