Top cardiology program rankings

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I'm sure this has been covered before numerous times, but there's no recent thread about program rankings. Particularly interested in interventional. From what I've been told, these are the best programs:

1) Texas Heart
2) Columbia
3) Duke (although I have no interest in a 4 year general cardiology program)
4) Mayo
5) MGH
6) Hopkins
7) Cleveland Clinic

Is this the general consensus?

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3) Duke (although I have no interest in a 4 year general cardiology program)

Apparently you're not the only one. I've heard they didn't fill their spots last year.
 
I'm sure this has been covered before numerous times, but there's no recent thread about program rankings. Particularly interested in interventional. From what I've been told, these are the best programs:

1) Texas Heart
2) Columbia
3) Duke (although I have no interest in a 4 year general cardiology program)
4) Mayo
5) MGH
6) Hopkins
7) Cleveland Clinic

Is this the general consensus?

The list seems reasonable. There are likely a few other departments that play on that level - Brigham, UCSF, Stanford. And there is certainly a much broader range of many excellent programs, but I guess that's not your question.

The interesting thing is how EXTREMELY different your training experience will be between programs. For example, training at Texas Heart or Brigham is night and day, I wonder how similar the applicant pool is amongst these programs.
 
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Well, I really want to know what the general consensus is. Training environments are obviously different everywhere. My personal life goal isn't to teach medical students/residents all day and work in a basic science lab - it's to become the best interventional cardiologist I can be. This would obviously push me more towards a place like Texas heart versus Brigham; nonetheless, I would like to hear everyones opinion on what the top programs are.
 
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Here we go again with these lists...I think cardiology is a very broad field, and not sure that one could make a "top 10 list" that is really valid in any way. It might be more useful to make a "Top 10 programs for people going into interventional cards", "Top 10 for those interested in basis science academic careers", "Top 10 for those interested in general cardiology private practice", etc.

Texas Heart - from what I know very skewed toward interventional. I'm not sure how traditionally "academic" they are.
Duke - research heavy of course.
Someone mentioned UCSF as a top program, but I have heard their cath lab was not busy enough for all their interventional fellows to get enough cases at times.
Stanford - The med school and IM residency have a reputation of being a bit too cushy in terms of the volume of clinical training, but I'm not sure about the cardiology fellowship. It's a pretty academic place in general, so I would think they may have a heavy research amphasis.
 
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just like residency, your interest within cardiology may change when you get into fellowship. For that reason you may want to consider a program that is strong in most areas or at least not deficient in any.
UCSF does indeed have low cath volume. If you are in fact interested in interventional cardiology, I would ask around and look to see what the diagnostic fellows are doing in the cath lab. At some places you are just the consenting scut donkey who then wipes wires and pulls sheaths. At other programs, you are doing cases from start to finish with the attending out of the room as well as learning angioplasty.
Also, within interventional cardiology you may want to focus on structural, cors or peripherals. pick programs accordingly. It seems like the way things are going you should be sure you have some other ace up your sleeve besides just being really good at PCI
 
just like residency, your interest within cardiology may change when you get into fellowship. For that reason you may want to consider a program that is strong in most areas or at least not deficient in any.
UCSF does indeed have low cath volume. If you are in fact interested in interventional cardiology, I would ask around and look to see what the diagnostic fellows are doing in the cath lab. At some places you are just the consenting scut donkey who then wipes wires and pulls sheaths. At other programs, you are doing cases from start to finish with the attending out of the room as well as learning angioplasty.
Also, within interventional cardiology you may want to focus on structural, cors or peripherals. pick programs accordingly. It seems like the way things are going you should be sure you have some other ace up your sleeve besides just being really good at PCI

Care to elaborate? which program fit each category? I am not interested in interventional but would be nice to know re scut-factories vs teaching institutes.
 
Care to elaborate? which program fit each category? I am not interested in interventional but would be nice to know re scut-factories vs teaching institutes.

Mt Sinai, NYC, Shamin Sharma is one of the top notch guys in interventional to train under there
 
You can usually find out this stuff when you interview, or at least get a pretty good idea...especially if you talk to more than just the designated tour guide and the faculty who interview you.
 
OOC, for people interested in interventional cards, how necessary is it to go to a cards fellowship with an interventional fellowship?
 
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I'm sure this has been covered before numerous times, but there's no recent thread about program rankings. Particularly interested in interventional. From what I've been told, these are the best programs:

1) Texas Heart
2) Columbia
3) Duke (although I have no interest in a 4 year general cardiology program)
4) Mayo
5) MGH
6) Hopkins
7) Cleveland Clinic

Is this the general consensus?

If you're interested in intervention, its not just sufficient to consider "reputation" in the academic sense. Clinical volume for procedures is key, as is the option to get training in structural or peripheral interventions - with the way things are going in intervention, it will be near impossible to do this without an additional year of training (for structural anyway). You'll also want to look at how much autonomy fellows get, particularly with the newer procedures - some places with structural fellowships you'll still wind up just watching the attending for a year, while a few placed will actually train you. Given these considerations I would say the best fellowships are:

1) Columbia - tremendous procedural volume, topnotch academic rep, the primary site for many of the major device related trials, good autonomy, has dedicated peripheral or structural year, and little if any scut.
2) Cleveland Clinic / Texas Heart - Large volume and very experienced attendings, involved in some research, unsure about autonomy, unsure about a dedicated 2nd year, unsure about level of scut but for the general fellowship I believe its high as they do not have strong medicine residency programs.
3) Cedars Sinai / Mt. Sinai in New York - these were not on your list but are among the busiest labs in the nation and will get you really good training; Also good academic reputations in the interventional world; I don't believe they have dedicated structural / peripheral years however; unsure about autonomy;
4) Washington Hospital Center - huge volume center with a good academic rep, experienced with all the latest and greatest techniques.and should definitely be on your list
5) MGH - Obviously top notch academic rep in general, but I think volume may be somewhat of an issue compared to the places above. Dedicated 2nd year is available; Research in interventional cardiology is not a specific strong point.
6) Duke - Great academic rep overall, reasonable volume though not as high as the places listed above, great autonomy; would put higher if your goal is an academic job, rather than just becoming a great proceduralist.
7) Mayo - high volume (though not as high as they used to be), dedicated 2nd year of training. I hear autonomy is seriously lacking.
8) Beth Isreal Deaconess - Pretty good volume when comparing the boston programs; good rep; they're the primary site for the CoreValve trial.

Regarding hopkins and brigham, obviously top notch academic programs with overall great research programs. Neither is known as a great, high volume cath lab however. If your goal is a high-powered academic position its worth considering more strongly, but your clinical volume will not be as good as elsewhere. Interventional resaerch is greater at brigham than hopkins.

Other program worth considering: Scripps Green in La Jolla - home of Eric Topol and Paul Tierstein - very high volume program with a great rep in the interventional world. Not sure about level of autonomy but I would imagine its pretty good.

Most of the other places generally thought of as "top" cardiology programs overall do not have busy interventional labs that live up to the general reputation.
 
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If you're interested in intervention, its not just sufficient to consider "reputation" in the academic sense. Clinical volume for procedures is key, as is the option to get training in structural or peripheral interventions - with the way things are going in intervention, it will be near impossible to do this without an additional year of training (for structural anyway). You'll also want to look at how much autonomy fellows get, particularly with the newer procedures - some places with structural fellowships you'll still wind up just watching the attending for a year, while a few placed will actually train you. Given these considerations I would say the best fellowships are:

1) Columbia - tremendous procedural volume, topnotch academic rep, the primary site for many of the major device related trials, good autonomy, has dedicated peripheral or structural year, and little if any scut.
2) Cleveland Clinic / Texas Heart - Large volume and very experienced attendings, involved in some research, unsure about autonomy, unsure about a dedicated 2nd year, unsure about level of scut but for the general fellowship I believe its high as they do not have strong medicine residency programs.
3) Cedars Sinai / Mt. Sinai in New York - these were not on your list but are among the busiest labs in the nation and will get you really good training; Also good academic reputations in the interventional world; I don't believe they have dedicated structural / peripheral years however; unsure about autonomy;
4) Washington Hospital Center - huge volume center with a good academic rep, experienced with all the latest and greatest techniques.and should definitely be on your list
5) MGH - Obviously top notch academic rep in general, but I think volume may be somewhat of an issue compared to the places above. Dedicated 2nd year is available; Research in interventional cardiology is not a specific strong point.
6) Duke - Great academic rep overall, reasonable volume though not as high as the places listed above, great autonomy; would put higher if your goal is an academic job, rather than just becoming a great proceduralist.
7) Mayo - high volume (though not as high as they used to be), dedicated 2nd year of training. I hear autonomy is seriously lacking.
8) Beth Isreal Deaconess - Pretty good volume when comparing the boston programs; good rep; they're the primary site for the CoreValve trial.

Regarding hopkins and brigham, obviously top notch academic programs with overall great research programs. Neither is known as a great, high volume cath lab however. If your goal is a high-powered academic position its worth considering more strongly, but your clinical volume will not be as good as elsewhere. Interventional resaerch is greater at brigham than hopkins.

Other program worth considering: Scripps Green in La Jolla - home of Eric Topol and Paul Tierstein - very high volume program with a great rep in the interventional world. Not sure about level of autonomy but I would imagine its pretty good.

Most of the other places generally thought of as "top" cardiology programs overall do not have busy interventional labs that live up to the general reputation.

Agree. well said.
I think Myostatin brings up a great point in that most 'top' cardiology programs have relatively weak cath labs. IMHO for example Brigham has one of the best programs in the world, but their cath training is not very strong.
Would add Michigan to this list.
 
Agree. well said.
I think Myostatin brings up a great point in that most 'top' cardiology programs have relatively weak cath labs. IMHO for example Brigham has one of the best programs in the world, but their cath training is not very strong.
Would add Michigan to this list.
Yes, it's a fallacy to equate reputation and academic research power with the ability to turn you into a technically excellent interventionalist. Some places are good at both, but it's certainly not a given. We get a biased view of things in academia. One of my friends is currently doing his interventional year at a "top five" program, and he's still in "wire wiping" mode a couple of months into it. Meanwhile, I'm positive there are some community programs you've never heard of where you will stand in the cath lab all day long doing cases and developing your skills.
 
Yes, it's a fallacy to equate reputation and academic research power with the ability to turn you into a technically excellent interventionalist. Some places are good at both, but it's certainly not a given. We get a biased view of things in academia. One of my friends is currently doing his interventional year at a "top five" program, and he's still in "wire wiping" mode a couple of months into it. Meanwhile, I'm positive there are some community programs you've never heard of where you will stand in the cath lab all day long doing cases and developing your skills.

Is there a list of such programs? If not, then I think current fellows should help us make such a list so that not everyone is applying for the same 10-20 programs.
List could be
- best cath volume (that fellows are able to do - not just total numbers)
- ICDs/PPMs placed by fellows
- Good teaching hospitals (different from good academic hospitals)
- more scut or H&Ps and d/c summary done by fellows on everyone
any other factors to be considered...
 
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first year cards fellow at texas heart.

if you're interested in cath, this is the place to be. my first month was cath and i probably did 20-25 diagnostic caths as first operator. we have 14 cath labs going everyday all day. if your team/group isn't cathing, you are typically able to scrub in on any case you want - complex pci, peripheral, carotid stents, endografts, ivc filters, etc, etc. typically the valve replacements are hard to scrub in on because the interventional fellows obviously have priority.

you spend 5 months of your first year on cath.
 
Is there a list of such programs? If not, then I think current fellows should help us make such a list so that not everyone is applying for the same 10-20 programs.
List could be
- best cath volume (that fellows are able to do - not just total numbers)
- ICDs/PPMs placed by fellows
- Good teaching hospitals (different from good academic hospitals)
- more scut or H&Ps and d/c summary done by fellows on everyone
any other factors to be considered...

The places I listed above are IMO the best interventional programs taking into account overall academic firepower, procedure volume & variety, and fellow autonomy in the lab. I forgot to include Emory, UPenn, and ? Washington University on the list above. Other very high volume places that will get you great procedural training (in interventional):

Ochner
William Beaumont
University of Miami - Miller
St. Luke's / Mid America Heart
Lenox Hill
 
Bump

Any thoughts on Penn's interventional training. They are obviously stellar in EP, but how about structural or peripheral? Thanks!
 
I am with Providence Health and Services in Oregon and we are looking to build out our east side interventional cardiology program. Which fellowship programs are the most innovative right now?
 
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