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Touro-COM NY vs. Ponce

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Osteopathic [ DO ]' started by CJY85, May 2, 2007.

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  1. CJY85

    CJY85

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    I pose this scenario and ask for everyone's insight :idea:. Suppose you were accepted to the American accredited allopathic school at Ponce in Puerto Rico and also accepted at TouroCOM-NY. With this, you aspire that when you graduate no matter from where, you do want to practice medicine in the Tri-state area. Simply asked, where would you go? What would you have considered before making the decision to help you arrive at the decision you made. I know this question incorporates the whole M.D. vs D.O debate and so its a question that is seemingly impossible to answer, but I just want all the insight I can get. So far I've considered a couple of things. Firstly, one education vs. the other. I would expect that TouroCOM would supercede Ponce in terms of technological advancement. I would expect that a med student would receive a better education from TouroCOM and be better prepared for taking the boards because of this. Secondly, I would expect that a med student from TouroCOM would establish better residency connections in New York than one from Ponce. But then all this considered, at the end of the day, is it better to be an M.D., no matter what kind of education one may receive. To anyone planning on going to Ponce, I mean no disrespect. I have heard of students receiving the most competitive residencies from Ponce. I am just honestly curious. Thanks people.:cool:
  2. scottyd214

    scottyd214

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    quite a few things to consider i think, including what you thinky ou might want to go into. if its something in primary care you might want to do the D.O.

    I think the biggest question is, do you want to MD or the DO. You could ask yourself, if Ponce was located in NY, would I choose that over Touro? If your answer is yes, it would seem that you want to MD
  3. CJY85

    CJY85

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    Whats ur thoughts in terms of where to ur more likely to receive a better education? and then establishing better connects for residencies?
  4. scottyd214

    scottyd214

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    Honestly I dont know man because I don't know too much about either school. As far as residency I guess I would look at what hospitals that you would do your 3rd and 4th year rotations. However, this really doesn't make too much of a difference anyway. You can apply anywhere you want and its really just going to come down to your board scores, your interview, etc.
  5. Taty

    Taty Senior Member

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    Which school makes you feel better? Where you will be happier?

    I felt happier at NYCOM so I go DO now :)
  6. Porco Rosso

    Porco Rosso

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    talk to some of the alumni of Ponce for their experiences
  7. hanky1982

    hanky1982 Irish eyes are smiling

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    I think the bigger issue is what you already addressed. You are going to school to become a doctor. With that said (as you mentioned) Touro-NY will have the better education and opprotunities to send you off into your practice. Secondly, as everyone knows, it all comes down to how well you take your boards in order to establish a quality residency. If Touro provides you a better education as well a stronger chance at landing a quality residency then it seems that this would be the most appropiate selection. Remember, we are going to school to become doctors, and if you ask most D.O.'s they don't have to justify their degree. If you want the M.D. behind your name than choose Ponce, but remember, it does you no good to go overseas to achieve that "M.D." if you can't put it to good use because you can't land a decent residency or likewise have problems coming back to the states.

    All in all, go with what is more important to you. It is either your education, or the association of having a M.D. behind your name.
  8. MaximusD

    MaximusD Anatomically Incorrect

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    Blah. Choose the one you like best, you tool.

    Since PR is a US territory, I don't think that Ponce graduates are considered to be FMGs but I am unsure of this...

    My gut tells me that if you want to practice in the northeast, Touro-NY is where you want to be.

    I may very well be incorrect... at any rate, and as I said rudely above... it's your decision. I wouldn't want to make it, because I honestly think you're choosing between an unknown quantity (touro-ny) and a questionable school.. but what do I know? not much..
  9. jp104

    jp104 Member

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    Isn't Ponce LCME certified and considered a Mainland US medical school. I don't think Ponce grads are considered FMGs.
  10. CJY85

    CJY85

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    they def aren't FMGs
  11. Orthodoc40

    Orthodoc40

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    Right they are a US school, so this once again boils down to the debate of DO vs. MD. More than that, you're debating an established US MD school vs. a just opened US DO school. You're also debating location. Let's see - the smelly pig sty that is NYC, or the beaches of PR....how much help did you need to decide??! :laugh:

    Seriously, I think you're just better off going to Ponce b/c it is a more established school, whether MD or DO.
  12. Porco Rosso

    Porco Rosso

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    plus it will open up a spot...:thumbup:
  13. Dr.Inviz

    Dr.Inviz Removed

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    Neither, Mr. Ponce de Leon wannabe. I suggest a career as a burger-flipper at McD's to be a better option for YOU. No hassles there except begging for that 401K! :laugh:
  14. scottyd214

    scottyd214

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    thanks for that completely useless comment!

    My advice man, as corny as it may sound...follow your heart and go where you will be happier. No matter what you will become a doctor and accomplish your dream and if you want to do your residency in the tristate area then you can make it happen at either school.
  15. Zendoc

    Zendoc

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    Someone else in this thread said that if you plan to practic in the tristate area that Touro-NY seems the better choice and I have to agree. I think if you have the opportunity to start living and making connections in your future area of residence, go for it! I think it's a dangerous practice to make life decisions based on what other people think. For instance, whether or not you will get the respect as a DO or have the same opportunities as a DO compared to an MD. At the end of the day, if you are truly happy and established, why would you ever go another route just to satisfy the expectations or demands of other people. You will never be able to satisfy EVERYONE anyway, so why try? Satisfy you! Concentrate on your gut feeling and try to do away with anyone else's opinion about where you should go. Your heart will lead you to the right place. Ok...I think I've gone Oprah Winfrey enough on you for now. Good luck!
  16. DropkickMurphy

    DropkickMurphy Removed

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    Hmm.....Harlem or the lowest tier of the Caribbean islands......tough choice. The only thing Ponce has going for it is that they grant what amounts to an US MD degree. Other than that, it's a losing proposition because of it's location just like the new Touro program.
  17. I know someone who graduated from a very similar school in Guadalajara and was considered a U.S. medical graduate. She got a residency but it was her third-choice location and the school wasn't very good.
  18. Oops, actually it wasn't just her third choice-location. It was also her third choice of field.
  19. DrBowtie

    DrBowtie Responsible?!?! PGY3 Moderator Emeritus

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    I think it may be a mistake to give Touro NY the edge in education and reputation in the NY region. Its a brand new school. There will be some bumps in the road probably with either school.

    Check the Ponce Match lists to see where people are going.
  20. I can't find the Ponce match list. Can someone post it? :confused:
  21. Oculus Sinistra

    Oculus Sinistra Finish it.

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    Holy font size.
    Go to Touro. Or NYCOM if you can get in there.
  22. Dr Who

    Dr Who Future MD...

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    • Guadalajara is a FOREIGN med school located in Mexico, whereas Ponc is located in Puerto Rico, a US territory.

    • Guadalajara is NOT accredited by the LCME, Ponce is.

    • Students who graduate from Guadalajara are FMG's, so their choices for residency might be limited. Ponce graduates are considered graduates from a US med school, and as such, can compete for any residency position they wish (considering USMLE and LOR's).

    This makes all the difference in the world. If you have to choose between going to Ponce and going to Guadalajara, it is a no brainer. Your friend most likely got into her third choice residency precisely because she is considered an FMG, which she wouldnt have been had she gone to Ponce.
  23. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Removed

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    249: 3rd tier allopathic primary care programs
    1: radiology (theres always one)
  24. Aamir786

    Aamir786

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    I just wanted to share some important information about the two schools:

    I believe that Touro is far more organized, in a awesome location, has much more money than the Ponce School of Medicine and it's foundation. The mission of the Ponce school is to train physicians who will stay in P.R.

    It is only a good school if you speak spanish fluently since the majority of classes are in spanish. Esp. all of the anatomy courses i.e Gross, histo, Neuro., biochem, micro etc It is not the best place for USA students, neither are these gringos given the privileged treatment, which is understood. Other departments as well are served by only spanish speaking faculty and staff. You will be downgraded during rotations if you don't speak the language.


    I am sure the education is good, but with way too many challenges, there has been some talk of compromised exams in the school, I would say just like other medical schools. But in general if you are a USA resident and have a choice of a school on the mainland, that would be the way to go, or if you can teach yourself medicine with little guidance go for it.

    By the way they change academic affair dean like every two yrs, they have a miserable board passing rate relative to other LCME schools like ~70%, which they blame on the language barrier experienced by their students.

    So overall, it seems like the TOURO is worldwide institute with huge backing and would be best suited for anyone in the NYC metro are. The peopl in charge of the school seem to know what they are doing. There network and DEAN's letter in 3 rd year will be worth more than the dean in Ponce who may not even be there when you graduate etc as well as the network that TOuro is expanding. The main teaching hospital for Touro, North General is merging with Mount Sinai, if it hasn't already, which will facilitate awesome letter of recc for residency.

    Good Luck my friend, make sure you talk to student at Ponce of your similar background before you make your decision.
  25. Dr Who

    Dr Who Future MD...

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    Actually most Ponce graduates end up in US mainland residencies, as the number of residencies in the island is limited and not enough spots for students from all three PR med schools plus US mainland students who apply. The reality is that the VAST MAjORITY of PSM students end up in residencies in the states. I have no idea what their USMLE passing rate is so I wont comment on that. The following is their mission statement and Goals:

    Mission

    The mission of Ponce School of Medicine is to provide high quality education, research and health services in medicine, biological sciences, clinical psychology, public health, and other healthcare fields, to the population we serve, through an innovative health sciences curriculum, while preparing students to be ethical practitioners and scientists.


    Vision
    The PSM vision is to be recognized as a prestigious academic center and to become a high quality health sciences university.

    PSM commits to its mission and the accomplishment of its vision by striving to fulfill the following institutional goals:

    Goals

    1. To continue its commitment to excellence in educational achievement by recruiting outstanding students and faculty, providing the appropriate resources for the development of high quality academic programs.
    2. To expand its academic and professional educational offerings to include other health related fields.
    3. To enhance recognition of the institution's commitment to excellence in basic and clinical research, scholarship and creative pursuits, supporting existing investigators and recruiting new highly qualified researchers.
    4. To expand and improve its high quality medical, mental health, diagnostic and therapeutic services.
    5. To continue to be an institution that prepares ethical professionals and scientists that contribute to society in general and to Puerto Rico in particular.

    I dont doubt that TOURO is an excellent school, but this statement is more of an opinion than fact. You are comparing a relatively brand new school to one that has been established almost 30 years ago. My opinion on this matter is that if a school is accredited by the LCME and has maintained its accreditation throughout its history, it shows that the school maintains a certain quality of education that the LCME deems worthy of a US medical school. We might have our opinions but in the end they are just that, opinions, or do we presume to know something the LCME doesnt?

    I have read in other threads dealing with this school and actual students who go there, AMERICAN students, say they were happy with their choice of school. So we can debate here all day, but my advice is, if you really want a genuine opinion, ask a real PSM student about the school. The same for TOURO. They are both excellent schools that will help take you to the promised land, if you work hard enough.

    Dr Who
  26. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Removed

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    There you go. How much harder will you need to work coming from a Carib school? Lots harder.
  27. Orthodoc40

    Orthodoc40

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    Ponce is not really a carribean school! Not in the way people usually refer to carribean schools, I mean.
    It is considered one of the 125 (-ish) US medical schools. Look it up in MSAR. You won't find Ross or SGU in there. This isn't the same argument as DO vs. Carribean. And classes are NOT mostly in spanish.
  28. Dr Who

    Dr Who Future MD...

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    So whats wrong with getting some hard work done? If you or I ever want to achieve an MD or a DO we have to be willing to work hard, make sacrifices and do what it takes to get there.
    Ponce IS NOT considered a "carib" school, it is considered a US medical school for all intents and purposes. Students in Ponce have to take shelf exams like every other medical student in the US. They have to take the USMLE just like every other med student in the US, and exactly under the same standardized conditions. They also have to compete under the same conditions as every other med student for residency. The same is expected of a student at Ponce than a student at Mount Sinai or the other more well known schools.

    I never felt comfortable with the elitist attitudes and opinions expressed by many SDN posters, especially in the pre- allo and pre-Osteo forums. To imply that because of its location (Puerto Rico), Ponce School of medicine is somehow "less" than other med schools says more about the person than the school. As I mentioned before LCME accreditation for the last 30 years speaks for itself.

    It is the same with MD students who put down DO schools as if those two letters make all that much of a difference. Yes, I attend an all med school (MD), but I have the utmost respect for ALL medical students (MD and DO), as we are all in the same boat. It is wrong and simpleminded when MD students put down DO students and it is wrong and simpleminded when we assume that students at one school are at a disadvantage, especially when the person saying it is not even en medical school yet.

    Dr Who
  29. :thumbup::thumbup: I concur. Elitist attitudes are usually exuded by those least qualified to do so. I feel that people who go overseas should be commended for their dedication. As my favorite character Prince Andre would say, "In all of man's endeavors there is never so much a pain as to appear weak when strong at times, but is a necessary art to learn." :)
  30. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Removed

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    Nothing. But why would you knowingly put yourself at a disadvantage right from the beginning?

    Seems like creating more work than necessary has nothing to do with intensity or desire, but poor planning.
  31. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Removed

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    Glad we have the pre-med jumpsuit federation here to steer us in the right direction.

    Commander, you need a woman more than anyone I have ever met.
  32. DropkickMurphy

    DropkickMurphy Removed

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    Talk about an ironic statment given the source.
  33. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Removed

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    Yeah, no kidding. He is the one who said that people who drink alcohol and have tattoos shouldnt be in medical school. :rolleyes:
  34. DropkickMurphy

    DropkickMurphy Removed

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    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_AwFd1zsz8[/YOUTUBE]

    He might want to check out this film from the security cameras at PCOM:
    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htijSr6A5PA[/YOUTUBE]
  35. That's enough of that, please. Thank you.
  36. Dr JPH

    Dr JPH Removed

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    Why? You gonna turn me in fella? Are ya? Huh? Are ya?

    :rolleyes:
  37. DropkickMurphy

    DropkickMurphy Removed

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    Just as I suspected.......
    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBLRnAsItSs[/YOUTUBE]
  38. Riker here. Commander William T. Riker.

    Original poster, I would suggest comparing the match-lists for both institutions. Objective ones usually make for the best of scales. ;)
  39. Dr Who

    Dr Who Future MD...

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    To the OP:

    I agree with Riker. But keep one thing in mind when looking at match lists. Not all med students want to get into Ortho, Rads or plastics. Most med students feel happy getting into peds, IM, OB-GYN or any of the other "less" competitive residencies. In my case I am leaning towards IM and eventually cardiology. I have no idea how that Ponce match list is (I attend another school), but I think it was posted somewhere on SDN a while back.
    You can also visit both schools so you can get a "feel" for the place.

    Sometimes nothing beats going there and seeing with your own eyes what the place is like and what it has to offer. Some important questions to consider are:

    Is the faculty pro-student or more concerned with research grants?

    Are students there happy with the school and area overall?

    Do you feel this is a place you can spend the next four years of your life in?

    Are there adequate housing, commercial and entertainment facilities close by?

    Do you prefer a big cosmopolitan setting with museums and other cultural offerings close by or do you prefer small uncomplicated island life with nice weather year round and excellent beaches?

    I am in no way saying one is better than the other. Both schools have their pros and cons. In the end dont let other people's opinions sway you (mine included). You have to go where you think you would be most happy for the the next four years. If you dont really care if you have MD or DO after your name then consider other, equally important, points. In the end it is YOUR career and happiness that really matters not what we might think.
    I am from NYC but decided to go to med school in PR. I chose PR over 4 other US med schools and I dont regret it one bit. I know the pros and cons of both PR and NYC, but in the end I decided I would be happier and more productive here.
    Remember, in the end its your choice and yours alone. It might seem hard to be objective, but most of the opinions here are just that, opinons. Made by people who know absolutely nothing about the island and base their opinions on hearsay and some numbers they saw somewhere.
    It doesnt matter if you go to TOURO, Ponce or Mount Sinai, you get out of medicine what you put in, its as simple as that. If you make the necessary adjustments and sacrifice that is needed then it doesnt matter where you decide to study. If you want to become a Neurosurgeon, study your butt off, get excellent grades, evals and LOR's, and you'll get there.

    Remember, when it comes to your career, the only subjective (and objective) opinion that matters is your own.

    Dr Who
  40. DOMO

    DOMO TouroCOM-NY Class of 2011

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    and your implication here is...?

    take your homophobic comments elsewhere...

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