Traffic circles...when to do something else?

[WGSgrad]

Preface: I appreciate and understand the practical advice often dispensed, "If you could imagine yourself doing something else, then you should do something else." This makes sense for a lot of different reasons and it's generally good advice. However, temporarily setting it aside...

For those of us just starting out, or fairly early in our journeys, are there points at which you will know you need to set the dream aside?

Since context is important, I will share the following: I just started my journey towards medicine; I turned thirty this month; I have no familial obligations (partner or children); I have financial concerns/considerations as I have significant student loan debt from my first undergraduate excursion. My reasons to exit the traffic circle early are:

1. Doing poorly in my prerequisites. As I am a recovering from a less than stellar GPA (2.7xx), if I don't excel (3.7+) during my prerequisites (second bachelor's) then my journey will end. Many medical students and faculty have commented on how much more difficult medical school is than upper division science classes in undergrad. I think this is a good signifier and I won't pursue medicine if I can't excel as an undergrad.

2. Two application cycles. If I am not accepted during my first cycle, I will seek more/different advice as to which schools to target and apply again. If I am not accepted after my second application cycle, then my journey will end.

3. Not admitted to a U.S. D.O./M.D. program. This is somewhat tied to my second reason, but if I am not admitted to a U.S. program then my journey will end. While I understand that overseas programs may be a reasonable choice for other people with specific goals, they really aren't a good choice for me.

Reasonable? Anyone else care to share?

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[BluMist]

For me personally:

1. If I find something else potentially more fulfilling, within or without healthcare. I am just starting the journey as well, so I am still in exploration stage.
2. If I do poorly on the MCAT. I'm giving myself at most two shots at this.
3. If my familial obligations change. No partner/children, potentially dependent parent, but things can change.

 

[WGSgrad]

For me personally:

1. If I find something else potentially more fulfilling, within or without healthcare. I am just starting the journey as well, so I am still in exploration stage.
2. If I do poorly on the MCAT. I'm giving myself at most two shots at this.
3. If my familial obligations change. No partner/children, potentially dependent parent, but things can change.

It's good to know that I'm not the only one and that my thoughts aren't blasphemous... Sometimes I read SDN threads or premed blogs and the paths some people follow to become a physician seem a bit extreme* to me; on one blog, the gentleman failed M1 and was dismissed from a medical school in the Caribbean and then attempted to transfer to another medical school in the Caribbean. While I admired his commitment (?), it definitely seemed like he should have had a heart to heart with a real friend who told him, "It might be time to let this go." Another young woman took the MCAT three times, never scoring above a 23, completed a second bachelor's degree, special SMP, and applied four times before being accepted to a DO school. Again, while I admire her persistence, I don't know if I would have stuck with it that long. While she will be a physician, she wants to do primary care and estimates her debt is close to $450K.

*For me, extreme is moving to the Caribbean, being dismissed, and reapplying to Caribbean schools. Extreme is not moving to another state, to Texas/out of California, to have a better chance of being admitted.

 

[Goro]

This right here is when to go to Plan B.

1. Doing poorly in my prerequisites. As I am a recovering from a less than stellar GPA (2.7xx), if I don't excel (3.7+) during my prerequisites (second bachelor's) then my journey will end. Many medical students and faculty have commented on how much more difficult medical school is than upper division science classes in undergrad. I think this is a good signifier and I won't pursue medicine if I can't excel as an undergrad.



But if you have competitive stats, and strike out after two cycles, and you've fixed all that you think you can fix, THEN it's time for Plan B!

2. Two application cycles. If I am not accepted during my first cycle, I will seek more/different advice as to which schools to target and apply again. If I am not accepted after my second application cycle, then my journey will end.

If you get IIs but no accepts, you either have a "red flag" like a bad LOR or poor interview skills. These can be fixed. IAs are harder. Many, but not all , Admission deans will give feedback as to where you might improve. But again, two cycles should be enough to let you know that it's Plan B time.


3. Not admitted to a U.S. D.O./M.D. program. This is somewhat tied to my second reason, but if I am not admitted to a U.S. program then my journey will end. While I understand that overseas programs may be a reasonable choice for other people with specific goals, they really aren't a good choice for me.



This isn't being extreme, merely being stupid.

*For me, extreme is moving to the Caribbean, being dismissed, and reapplying to Caribbean schools. Extreme is not moving to another state, to Texas/out of California, to have a better chance of being admitted.

 

[WGSgrad]

But if you have competitive stats, and strike out after two cycles, and you've fixed all that you think you can fix, THEN it's time for Plan B!

2. Two application cycles. If I am not accepted during my first cycle, I will seek more/different advice as to which schools to target and apply again. If I am not accepted after my second application cycle, then my journey will end.

If you get IIs but no accepts, you either have a "red flag" like a bad LOR or poor interview skills. These can be fixed. IAs are harder. Many, but not all , Admission deans will give feedback as to where you might improve. But again, two cycles should be enough to let you know that it's Plan B time.


3. Not admitted to a U.S. D.O./M.D. program. This is somewhat tied to my second reason, but if I am not admitted to a U.S. program then my journey will end. While I understand that overseas programs may be a reasonable choice for other people with specific goals, they really aren't a good choice for me.

2. This is exactly the case. If I have competitive stats, I will certainly avail myself of all resources/guidance/suggestions before moving on to Plan B.
3. Again, this is very much the case. If I have competitive stats, and get IIs, I will definitely avail myself of all resources/guidance/suggestions before moving on to Plan B.

I think your advice makes sense. I think the biggest thing for me is being able to put together a competitive package. If I can't do that, for whatever reason, I am willing to move on to plan B. While I have seen some people get admitted with what are perceptually less than competitive packages, I'm not willing to invest the time (four app cycles) and the money it takes to get admitted with those stats. Or, take the risk that I won't do well once I get admitted. Doing well once admitted seems to get far less consideration than the 'miracle' of getting admitted. For me, given my financial considerations, it is equally if not more important.

 

[Goro]

You have wisdom far greater than many pre-meds (one reason I'm fond of non-trad students). I can't stand the "I'll keep on applying until I'm 60" mindset!

2. This is exactly the case. If I have competitive stats, I will certainly avail myself of all resources/guidance/suggestions before moving on to Plan B.
3. Again, this is very much the case. If I have competitive stats, and get IIs, I will definitely avail myself of all resources/guidance/suggestions before moving on to Plan B.

I think your advice makes sense. I think the biggest thing for me is being able to put together a competitive package. If I can't do that, for whatever reason, I am willing to move on to plan B. While I have seen some people get admitted with what are perceptually less than competitive packages, I'm not willing to invest the time (four app cycles) and the money it takes to get admitted with those stats. Or, take the risk that I won't do well once I get admitted. Doing well once admitted seems to get far less consideration than the 'miracle' of getting admitted. For me, given my financial considerations, it is equally if not more important.

 

[QofQuimica]

I took the attitude of "one shot, one kill." I was applying for post docs at the same time that I was applying for medical school. Had I not gotten into medical school, I would have gone on with my career in chemistry. That being said, I made sure to give that one try everything I had. Had I not gotten in on my first try, I could have honestly said that I don't know what more I could have done to further strengthen my app. (Well, possibly short of taking more UG science classes, which I had decided I wasn't willing to do after having been teaching them. )

 

[WGSgrad]

I took the attitude of "one shot, one kill." I was applying for post docs at the same time that I was applying for medical school. Had I not gotten into medical school, I would have gone on with my career in chemistry. That being said, I made sure to give that one try everything I had. Had I not gotten in on my first try, I could have honestly said that I don't know what more I could have done to further strengthen my app. (Well, possibly short of taking more UG science classes, which I had decided I wasn't willing to do after having been teaching them. )

To be honest, for someone with your qualifications, I don't know how you could not get in your first round. That being said, as someone who doesn't have your background, this is still going to be my approach. Although, perhaps this is easier said now, having not ventured down the rabbit hole...

 

[QofQuimica]

To be honest, for someone with your qualifications, I don't know how you could not get in your first round. That being said, as someone who doesn't have your background, this is still going to be my approach. Although, perhaps this is easier said now, having not ventured down the rabbit hole...

That was how I felt too. I was teaching UG gen chem and organic chem classes; I had taken grad level science courses for an MS and PhD; and I was just not willing to retake science classes at the UG level for grades. Other than that, I was like, I don't know what more I can do. If it's not good enough, I honestly feel like I gave it my best effort!

If you mean you waited a year to apply, nothing wrong with that. I waited a year to apply too, to make sure all my ducks were in a row. Plus, I wanted to be an early applicant. I was an August MCAT taker and didn't get my score back until October, so I would have been really late if I had applied right away. Definitely don't regret waiting that year.

FWIW, I put off applying for fellowship by a few years too. But I am doing it this summer. Will you be applying this year?

 

[WGSgrad]

That was how I felt too. I was teaching UG gen chem and organic chem classes; I had taken grad level science courses for an MS and PhD; and I was just not willing to retake science classes at the UG level for grades. Other than that, I was like, I don't know what more I can do. If it's not good enough, I honestly feel like I gave it my best effort!

If you mean you waited a year to apply, nothing wrong with that. I waited a year to apply too, to make sure all my ducks were in a row. Plus, I wanted to be an early applicant. I was an August MCAT taker and didn't get my score back until October, so I would have been really late if I had applied right away. Definitely don't regret waiting that year.

FWIW, I put off applying for fellowship by a few years too. But I am doing it this summer. Will you be applying this year?

I will not be applying this year. I am a graduate student in a humanities program but I have a GTA with full tuition remission. I have completed most of the courses for my degree but have another year of fellowship money available so I am going work on completing as many prerequisites as I can on the university's dime; my department supports this as long as I continue to teach. If I am successful in my coursework, I will apply for the following year. If not, I won't.

 

[GreenDuck12]

Completely agree with what you wrote. There absolutely is a point when one needs to move on and pursue other career options for a variety of reasons. I wouldn't give up on post-bac classes after one rough term but I would if there is a pattern of low achievement. Overseas medical schools are not an option (especially the diploma mill for profit institutions in the carribean. Best of luck to you.

Preface: I appreciate and understand the practical advice often dispensed, "If you could imagine yourself doing something else, then you should do something else." This makes sense for a lot of different reasons and it's generally good advice. However, temporarily setting it aside...

For those of us just starting out, or fairly early in our journeys, are there points at which you will know you need to set the dream aside?

Since context is important, I will share the following: I just started my journey towards medicine; I turned thirty this month; I have no familial obligations (partner or children); I have financial concerns/considerations as I have significant student loan debt from my first undergraduate excursion. My reasons to exit the traffic circle early are:

1. Doing poorly in my prerequisites. As I am a recovering from a less than stellar GPA (2.7xx), if I don't excel (3.7+) during my prerequisites (second bachelor's) then my journey will end. Many medical students and faculty have commented on how much more difficult medical school is than upper division science classes in undergrad. I think this is a good signifier and I won't pursue medicine if I can't excel as an undergrad.

2. Two application cycles. If I am not accepted during my first cycle, I will seek more/different advice as to which schools to target and apply again. If I am not accepted after my second application cycle, then my journey will end.

3. Not admitted to a U.S. D.O./M.D. program. This is somewhat tied to my second reason, but if I am not admitted to a U.S. program then my journey will end. While I understand that overseas programs may be a reasonable choice for other people with specific goals, they really aren't a good choice for me.

Reasonable? Anyone else care to share?