Truth about OMFS

[Ender]

Now I have heard many stories about OMFS guys in private practice working 4 days a week and making over $1 million a year (net). Is this true, and if so is this the rare exception? I realise that pulling 3rds can be quick and lucrative, but this number is hard to believe.

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[Stanford Fencer]

Now I have heard many stories about OMFS guys in private practice working 4 days a week and making over $1 million a year (net). Is this true, and if so is this the rare exception? I realise that pulling 3rds can be quick and lucrative, but this number is hard to believe.

one of the highest i've heard (reliable source) is 4 days a week and 450,000 net in kansas.

 

[toofache32]

The OMFS back home who collected teeth for me let me spend a few days in his office. He was in solo practice, 5 years out of residency, in a small town as the only OMFS. He showed me his bank book where he grossed 1.3 million the prior year with only about 40% overhead. You do the math.

Again, he was the only guy in a small town of 20,000 people plus another 20,000 college students. This was also in the South where the cost of living is pretty cheap. Maybe because we don't waste money on things like shoes and indoor plumbing.

Anyone know what the typical overhead is for OMFS? I have no idea.

 

[Ender]

So does $300,000 to $500,000 net seem a little more realistic?

 

[oldboy]

Don't forget the man...Taxes suck!!!

 

[antidentite]

Don't forget the man...Taxes suck!!![/QUOTE

thats why they are talking net. am i wrong to assume gross - all overhead -taxes = net. i have never heard anyone talk about net income before taxes?

 

[north2southOMFS]

Maybe because we don't waste money on things like shoes and indoor plumbing.

And dog house air conditioners and barbers.

 

[rrc]

thats why they are talking net. am i wrong to assume gross - all overhead -taxes = net. i have never heard anyone talk about net income before taxes?

It's different than you are thinking.
Gross = gross collections from patient billing
Net = the total that you are paid BEFORE taxes (this is also gross PAY)
Net Pay = the total that you see after taxes

 

[Ender]

It's different than you are thinking.
Gross = gross collections from patient billing
Net = the total that you are paid BEFORE taxes (this is also gross PAY)
Net Pay = the total that you see after taxes

I agree.

Has anyone else heard of any reliable numbers?

 

[12YearOldKid]

4 wizzies + sedation = 1/2 hour = $1250+

 

[esclavo]

Now I have heard many stories about OMFS guys in private practice working 4 days a week and making over $1 million a year (net). Is this true, and if so is this the rare exception? I realise that pulling 3rds can be quick and lucrative, but this number is hard to believe.

You're correct, it is hard for me to believe also. I think it is more like $1 billion dollars and only 2 days a week, one week a month, one month a year...

 

[jpollei]

And dog house air conditioners and barbers.

Still forgetting NASCAR bleacher seats and the accompanying camper; plus the ever popular "Git 'er dun" lighter and cap.

 

[InMyCrossHairs]

Now I have heard many stories about OMFS guys in private practice working 4 days a week and making over $1 million a year (net). Is this true, and if so is this the rare exception? I realise that pulling 3rds can be quick and lucrative, but this number is hard to believe.

I dont know why people have a hard time believing an OMFS can make a million a year. The math is very simple: 10*4 full boneys a week is 18,000 right there, not to mention implants, orthognathics, dent alv etc. If you are busy and have a good practice you will make sh1t load of money.

 

[esclavo]

I dont know why people have a hard time believing an OMFS can make a million a year. The math is very simple: 10*4 full boneys a week is 18,000 right there, not to mention implants, orthognathics, dent alv etc. If you are busy and have a good practice you will make sh1t load of money.

Absolutely! And thirds are so easy that they rarely take more than 3 minutes! You never have to do pre-op consults or post-ops. Who cares if they are ASA I or II or III or even IV; as long as their heart beats enough to push the blood to their fingers while they are writing out the check. Just bring them in take their money, stick an IV in their arm, put them in a diprivan coma, rip their teeth out and leave the office. Sounds so easy. I don't know why people have a hard time believing an OMFS can make 3 trillion dollars a year. The math is very simple: 8 hours a day. 1 1/2 hours doing bogus TMD consults listening to "whiney, white, women" complain of pain in their face-prescribing palliative care, 1 hour taking out psuedo ankylosed mandibular molars on 30 + year old black men who brux. 2 1/2- 3 hours of taking out 6 sets of third molars, 2 hours of seeing consults (so you can have six sets of thirds to take out tomorrow) and post ops (little Jenny who still has a numb tongue, Junior who is in for his third tx for osteitis, one subperiosteal abscess)... then the ED calls and wonders if they can send a mandible fracture to your office (simple non dispaced fracture). When that patient arrives they also have 6 cm of lacerations and the fracture is multiple and needs to go back to the OR for tx. Oh, no insurance, no problem, I can do it for free, I make 3 trillion dollars a year! Why not, and since I've only worked 8 hours today, whats another 3.

I don't know why people can't believe that a GP can't make 1 million a year. Do the math. Class I amalgam takes 2 minutes. Staff starts to numb them up as they hit the door. Assistants put on the rubber dams in the waiting room. Then we move them down the hallway with cattle prods. At $100 dollars a piece and doing 40 a day... cake...

 

[InMyCrossHairs]

Absolutely! And thirds are so easy that they rarely take more than 3 minutes! You never have to do pre-op consults or post-ops. Who cares if they are ASA I or II or III or even IV; as long as their heart beats enough to push the blood to their fingers while they are writing out the check. Just bring them in take their money, stick an IV in their arm, put them in a diprivan coma, rip their teeth out and leave the office. Sounds so easy. I don't know why people have a hard time believing an OMFS can make 3 trillion dollars a year. The math is very simple: 8 hours a day. 1 1/2 hours doing bogus TMD consults listening to "whiney, white, women" complain of pain in their face-prescribing palliative care, 1 hour taking out psuedo ankylosed mandibular molars on 30 + year old black men who brux. 2 1/2- 3 hours of taking out 6 sets of third molars, 2 hours of seeing consults (so you can have six sets of thirds to take out tomorrow) and post ops (little Jenny who still has a numb tongue, Junior who is in for his third tx for osteitis, one subperiosteal abscess)... then the ED calls and wonders if they can send a mandible fracture to your office (simple non dispaced fracture). When that patient arrives they also have 6 cm of lacerations and the fracture is multiple and needs to go back to the OR for tx. Oh, no insurance, no problem, I can do it for free, I make 3 trillion dollars a year! Why not, and since I've only worked 8 hours today, whats another 3.

I don't know why people can't believe that a GP can't make 1 million a year. Do the math. Class I amalgam takes 2 minutes. Staff starts to numb them up as they hit the door. Assistants put on the rubber dams in the waiting room. Then we move them down the hallway with cattle prods. At $100 dollars a piece and doing 40 a day... cake...

I never said anything about there not being pre/post op complications, and never did I mention there will not be difficult cases, because undoubtedly all of this occurs, but if you dont think you can manage this plus have time to make money them I am sorry, you must have very low expectations. Maybe too much time spent in UTAHRD.

Oh, and by the way, there are many GP's who do a million a year,

 

[aphistis]

I never said anything about there not being pre/post op complications, and never did I mention there will not be difficult cases, because undoubtedly all of this occurs, but if you dont think you can manage this plus have time to make money them I am sorry, you must have very low expectations. Maybe too much time spent in UTAHRD.

Oh, and by the way, there are many GP's who do a million a year,

That's right, ace. Scoffing at the advice of people who're actually in the situation you're blindly speculating about, is definitely a career-enhancing attitude. Attaboy.

 

[InMyCrossHairs]

That's right, ace. Scoffing at the advice of people who're actually in the situation you're blindly speculating about, is definitely a career-enhancing attitude. Attaboy.

Where in his post was there advice? Now go put that SDN moderator/mall security uniform on and police the predent thread, lord knows you have nothing else to do.

 

[GatorDMD]

Where in his post was there advice? Now go put that SDN moderator/mall security uniform on and police the predent thread, lord knows you have nothing else to do.

 

[esclavo]

Where in his post was there advice? Now go put that SDN moderator/mall security uniform on and police the predent thread, lord knows you have nothing else to do.

I like this "Hairy Cross" guy, lots of spunk. Just havin' sum fun "cross", watcha gotta 'gainst dat? Sometimes you just gotta "unstring the bow" if you know what I mean. It's hopeless, can't help #1 gunner have some fun. But I do know this guys who makes a million dollars with his sugar cookie company in UTAHRD (each cookie is .29 cents times sixty thousand a day four days a week X 52 weeks.... ahh crap I can't keep up with this math). Did I ever tell you about my other buddy who makes about 80,000 dollars a year as a tullip farmer in Oregon. 70 acres of tullips with 4 billion tullips per each hectar X .18 cents per tullip minus the manure for fertilizing. Come on, I know your smiling right now behind that gunner grit. Here's a deal, you can add me to your buddy list and I'll promise I'll forget that your funny bone just overtook your stapes as the smallest bone in your body. Truce?

 

[toofache32]

Still forgetting NASCAR bleacher seats and the accompanying camper; plus the ever popular "Git 'er dun" lighter and cap.

Ok, you guys must be stalking me or something. How did you know they were bleacher seats?

 

[mtheman]

You know the big fat sweaty guy that sits behind you...it's me and jpollei is just down the row from us

 

[InMyCrossHairs]

Here's a deal, you can add me to your buddy list and I'll promise I'll forget that your funny bone just overtook your stapes as the smallest bone in your body. Truce? [/QUOTE]

From what my x-wife tells me, it is the third smallest bone in my body
Truce, absoloutely. Peace

 

[aphistis]

Where in his post was there advice? Now go put that SDN moderator/mall security uniform on and police the predent thread, lord knows you have nothing else to do.

Lord knows there's no shortage of pre-dent threads that need policing, but that's not my turf.

Also, the only uniforms I have are what the Army has issued me. I don't imagine many mall security guards are M-16 qualified, either. Nice try, though.

 

[InMyCrossHairs]

Lord knows there's no shortage of pre-dent threads that need policing, but that's not my turf.

Also, the only uniforms I have are what the Army has issued me. I don't imagine many mall security guards are M-16 qualified, either. Nice try, though.

M-16 my ass, I can just see you now, with your SDN moderator belt with the fake mase, nerf billy club, two sets of hand cuffs, and a police scanner; all the while wondering what if?

 

[GatorDMD]

M-16 my ass, I can just see you now, with your SDN moderator belt with the fake mase, nerf billy club, two sets of hand cuffs, and a police scanner; all the while wondering what if?

this guy is great!

 

[aphistis]

M-16 my ass, I can just see you now, with your SDN moderator belt with the fake mase, nerf billy club, two sets of hand cuffs, and a police scanner; all the while wondering what if?

[shrug]

Whatever helps you feel better about yourself. Happy gunning.

 

[Ender]

This is interesting. The thread started with a legitimate question and so far there have only been 2 legitimate replies out of 25.

 

[rrc]

Just because an OMS charges over $1800 for 4 full bony's doesnt say that much. Remember overhead upwards of 50-60% (I have the JOMS reference for this). Then take out liability, disability, staff bonuses, CE expenses, licensure dues, transportation costs, mortgage on the building (and NO this is not part of the overhead), and "frills" for the local GP's (which is a huge chunk of change); and you are not left with very much of the original $1800 .

 

[zdaddy08]

M-16 my ass, I can just see you now, with your SDN moderator belt with the fake mase, nerf billy club, two sets of hand cuffs, and a police scanner; all the while wondering what if?

be careful....doofy will come over with his combat boots and scooby-doo underoos and whip your ass!

 

[north2southOMFS]

Just because an OMS charges over $1800 for 4 full bony's doesnt say that much. Remember overhead upwards of 50-60% (I have the JOMS reference for this). Then take out liability, disability, staff bonuses, CE expenses, licensure dues, transportation costs, mortgage on the building (and NO this is not part of the overhead), and "frills" for the local GP's (which is a huge chunk of change); and you are not left with very much of the original $1800 .

What!@!!!! I think you are speaking heavy practice including implants if you say 50-60% overhead. Whoever came up with those stats needs a practice management course.

just go ahead, tell me of your reference, if you dare.......

 

[OMFS2B]

What!@!!!! I think you are speaking heavy practice including implants if you say 50-60% overhead. Whoever came up with those stats needs a practice management course.

just go ahead, tell me of your reference, if you dare.......

$1800 for thirds seems low; I have mostly seen $2000-$3500.

 

[esclavo]

$1800 for thirds seems low; I have mostly seen $2000-$3500.

What market have you seen these prices in? Does the OMFS wear silk scrubs and a Hugh Hefner robe? Is an escort optional because the office limo can run you home after the surgery? Instead of using tape to prevent corneal abrasion does he just put some "fresh-thinly sliced cucumbers" over the eyes? I anxiously await further information......

 

[Bifid Uvula]

What market have you seen these prices in? Does the OMFS wear silk scrubs and a Hugh Hefner robe? Is an escort optional because the office limo can run you home after the surgery? Instead of using tape to prevent corneal abrasion does he just put some "fresh-thinly sliced cucumbers" over the eyes? I anxiously await further information......

250-400/ wizzy, and another 350-500 for sedation is what I've generally seen in Florida, and what was quoted to me when I was a teenager.

 

[drhobie7]

Does the OMFS wear silk scrubs and a Hugh Hefner robe?

Sweet

 

[ItsGavinC]

250-400/ wizzy, and another 350-500 for sedation is what I've generally seen in Florida, and what was quoted to me when I was a teenager.

Awww, shucks (get it?), and to think I just spent the all last week in my OS rotation, removing those things for $63-138 a pop.

 

[esclavo]

250-400/ wizzy, and another 350-500 for sedation is what I've generally seen in Florida, and what was quoted to me when I was a teenager.

I would quote you that price too if you showed up with that "gold manhole cover" around your neck and the top half of the buttons of your shirt undone LIKE you were cool. You gotta stop watching "queer eye for the straight guy" for fashion tips.

 

[rrc]

What!@!!!! I think you are speaking heavy practice including implants if you say 50-60% overhead. Whoever came up with those stats needs a practice management course.

just go ahead, tell me of your reference, if you dare.......

Private practice versus academia. Bussard DA. Journal of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery - July 2003 (Vol. 61, Issue 7, Pages 827-828)

I am not saying all practices have overhead this high. But asking around this seems to be the average.

The other thing about the $1800, not everyone is in that ballpark. I know an oms in the northwest US who charges $900 for a full bony. That is $3600 per case + anesthesia.

 

[Bifid Uvula]

I would quote you that price too if you showed up with that "gold manhole cover" around your neck and the top half of the buttons of your shirt undone LIKE you were cool. You gotta stop watching "queer eye for the straight guy" for fashion tips.

I can't wait for u to come back on service....

 

[esclavo]

I can't wait for u to come back on service....

Oh yes, my young "padowan learner", don't you worry, "Yoda's coming back" and he has a "lightsaber spankin' " in store for the "youngling gone astray"......I'll even let you take daddy's pocket knife so you can go out and cut your own switch.....

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

Oh yes, my young "padowan learner", don't you worry, "Yoda's coming back" and he has a "lightsaber spankin' " in store for the "youngling gone astray"......I'll even let you take daddy's pocket knife so you can go out and cut your own switch.....

My fifth year calls us his Padowans, too. Only he doesn't subject us to sodomy...

 

[Bifid Uvula]

.

 

[Bifid Uvula]

Oh yes, my young "padowan learner", don't you worry, "Yoda's coming back" and he has a "lightsaber spankin' " in store for the "youngling gone astray"......I'll even let you take daddy's pocket knife so you can go out and cut your own switch.....

Behold, my fearless "jedi" senior resident.... in all his mexican glory...

 

[esclavo]

My fifth year calls us his Padowans, too. Only he doesn't subject us to sodomy...

I don't subject my intern to sodomy. I get the strange feeling that would only please him, not bring him back into line. Thus I resort to the things that work for my own kids. WORK and then a butt kicking. I already checked ahead of time for my young "gluteus uvularis" (known to the rest of you as Bifid Uvula) which of the Colorectal Surgeons will be on call the first week in November. I've already asked him and he has confirmed that he does have the skill to extricate my foot from "scrotal uvularis's" back side.

 

[Bifid Uvula]

I don't subject my intern to sodomy. I get the strange feeling that would only please him, not bring him back into line. Thus I resort to the things that work for my own kids. WORK and then a butt kicking. I already checked ahead of time for my young "gluteus uvularis" (known to the rest of you as Bifid Uvula) which of the Colorectal Surgeons will be on call the first week in November. I've already asked him and he has confirmed that he does have the skill to extricate my foot from "scrotal uvularis's" back side.

Sodomy would be the easy way out...