Tulane ACP 2015-2016

[PuppyEnthusiast1357]

Give me a break. I've been on waitlists since October 15th (the first day we can know decisions), and almost no schools have been forethcoming or transparent. It doesn't matter what I have to do to achieve it because I want to pursue medicine. This process is so ridiculously drawn-out in every way for those like myself. I'm financially depleted from cross-country interviews, three jobs, and pouring almost all my remaining money into SMPs and reapplication, and I'm depleted in just about every other way by this process. Doing everything in our power, and then getting obliterated is not easy on any of us. I'm sure you understand.




The other ones also have mcat averages over 30 as well for the most part. Though a program like this would really benefit those with lower mcats considering we have FEW options, aside from risking taking the test again. People in postbaccs have GPA boosters. We have a few programs like this, reapplying, or retaking an entirely new test and hoping the chips fall the way we want them. Hearing "you're not good enough because your mcat is a few pts too low" in a program that would really benefit those of us with lower mcats in a significantly is a slap in the face.

Think of it this way:
You do slightly below average (in terms of matriculate data, not below average on the mcat curve) on the mcat. Succeeding in medical school coursework and having the opportunity to improve your standardized test scores and be trained to think in a mindset that is beneficial for standardized test taking would be profoundly useful to those of us with slightly low mcats.

There are only 16-18 people in a class with a rumored average of 33 (I don't even know if this is true for the ACP program). Average does not matter in a sample size that small. From the scores I know, there are a couple of us in the near 40s and a couple of us in the high 20s. The applicants accepted into ACP were also waitlisted in other schools and for all you know had the same or greater struggles than you have. I know the stories of many of my peers and I think it is unfair and also an untrue assessment to assume that a majority were great test takers or were also not financially depleted. "Empathetic" is a common term medical students use to describe themselves. An empathetic person would realize that there are other applicants who have had struggles, setbacks or have also felt "obliterated" by the process.

All post-baccs are designed to fill medical seats with battle tested students (with a slight monetary incentive for some schools). As mentioned in my original post, the ACP program just puts you through what you need and charges accordingly (not that exorbitant full year tuition other places do). Just because the ACP program offers many benefits; however, does not mean it should change its standards. I am not saying that you are not qualified (I was waitlisted as well) but am reinforcing that you probably do "have the qualities necessary to perform well in medical school, if given the opportunity." After all, you were waitlisted by at least one medical school committee in addition to being reviewed by the ACP committee so more than one group of people thought you were qualified. What I am trying to point out is that all 50+ of the applicants were also waitlisted at medical schools and therefore have the qualities necessary to perform well in medical school, if given the opportunity. The only way to solve the problem of #applicants > #ofspots is to increase the number of spots.... and then you get the 180-200 student class you have at other SMPs with a 10% direct matriculation rate.

If you have done research on Tulane School of Medicine, you will often hear about a "fit" they look for in interviews. This is one of the few schools I interviewed at that was serious about this more holistic approach to applicants. I can guarantee you the ACP committee uses that similar approach for its accepted applicants since there is a high chance those students will eventually become medical students.

tl;dr: MCAT is not a valid metric (unless you were under the minimum) to evaluate your ACP review. Everyone is qualified and on the same playing field, there are just limited spots

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[Coleworld]

Keep it together Coleworld, all your hard work will eventually give you results. Most of us are like you, having to bust our ass to pay for all that crap and not seeing the fruits of our labors. But be patient, we are very close now. One day after you make it, you are going to look back at all these exhausting adventures and realize that it was all worth it. Keep your head up lad

Amen to that. I love the words of encouragement. Same to you.

 

[ddc150]

I was on 3 waitlists, but attended bu mams instead. I didn't apply here, but I'm sure you will learn a lot in anatomy.. Not saying this isn't an outstanding program, but the irony is how somewhat fickle medical school admissions committees (particularly in good 'ol boys clubs, that don't necessarily value meritocracy) vary in their cogent ability to select students to become humble good physicians..

i have a heart for the new orleans area, they have been through a lot. just take everything I say with a grain of salt, and if it is a means to an end, go for it.. Fit is really important for each school of the culture and class.. The new mcat is changing the game guys, and when you get a chance check out the psychology / sociology section.. Hard work, honesty, and humility trump everything #cognitivedissonance

 

[sazerac]

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here as to the purpose of the Tulane ACP program. We didn't create it to capture the "almost made it to med school" crowd. We created it for the "I can't believe this person didn't get into a med school" crowd.

Yes their MCAT scores are high. In fact, their everything is high. Some years their stats are higher than the incoming regular class. As the ACPers march through what is basically a 5 year med school curriculum, they often become class officers and get high marks in school and on national exams.

If anybody here gets into the ACP program, congratulations. You truly slipped through the cracks this year, and Tulane is privileged to have a student like you at our school.

 

[ddc150]

Everyone wants affirmation, brother/sister.. let me say one thing.. patience, perseverance, depth of character.. we base our experiences through our own lens, and i wonder who is more perseverant that is working on their second masters degree.. and someone who actually has a passion for primary care medicine. um, do most medical students think like that? probably not. enough said.

 

[zarfot]

Everyone wants affirmation, brother/sister.. let me say one thing.. patience, perseverance, depth of character.. we base our experiences through our own lens, and i wonder who is more perseverant that is working on their second masters degree.. and someone who actually has a passion for primary care medicine. um, do most medical students think like that? probably not. enough said.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say.

I'm looking for housing options - if anyone has any suggestions.

 

[ddc150]

sorry if i offended anybody, its been a long week. im sure this program is well coordinated and will make great docs to help the area.. thanks for your patience everybody. i think im retiring from sdn, it can be kinda intense

 

[Coleworld]

sorry if i offended anybody, its been a long week. im sure this program is well coordinated and will make great docs to help the area.. thanks for your patience everybody. i think im retiring from sdn, it can be kinda intense

A break from SDN is definitely a good thing for us. This place is so stressful.

 

[Hailstorm]

Yea you too. Also the average mcat for ppl in this program is like a 33. It's like really?! Where are low mcat pplz supposed to go when postbaccs are mainly for low gpas and SMPs do this to us.

Low MCAT pplz can fix all their low MCAT problems in a single day by going here: https://services.aamc.org/20/mcat/

If you're aware of a low GPA equivalent please advise.

 

[Coleworld]

Low MCAT pplz can fix all their low MCAT problems in a single day by going here: https://services.aamc.org/20/mcat/

If you're aware of a low GPA equivalent please advise.

Lol, you're so ignorant it isn't even funny. Not everyone can score an above average mcat score and that says very little about their capacity to succeed in medicine. A program like this is a god-send for those with lower mcats because it gives us a chance to demonstrate to admissions a way of proving we can succeed beyond that. Use your brain.

 

[sazerac]

Lol, you're so ignorant it isn't even funny. Not everyone can score an above average mcat score and that says very little about their capacity to succeed in medicine. A program like this is a god-send for those with lower mcats because it gives us a chance to demonstrate to admissions a way of proving we can succeed beyond that. Use your brain.

Like I said before, ACP is not meant for low MCAT folks. You are barking up the wrong program if that is your plan.

I also disagree with your discounting the importance of the MCAT on being a doctor. There is a strong correlation between the MCAT and passing the medical boards; it's better than any other tool we have. No boards = no doctor. This is borne out by statistics and personal observation.

At Tulane med we do have a few "side doors" for acceptance that don't require above average MCAT scores. Honestly, it is those students who drop down or drop out for academic reasons, far more than students that came in through the front door. Those barriers to the front door, such as the MCAT, exist for a good reason.

 

[Coleworld]

Like I said before, ACP is not meant for low MCAT folks. You are barking up the wrong program if that is your plan.

I also disagree with your discounting the importance of the MCAT on being a doctor. There is a strong correlation between the MCAT and passing the medical boards; it's better than any other tool we have. No boards = no doctor. This is borne out by statistics and personal observation.

At Tulane med we do have a few "side doors" for acceptance that don't require above average MCAT scores. Honestly, it is those students who drop down or drop out for academic reasons, far more than students that came in through the front door. Those barriers to the front door, such as the MCAT, exist for a good reason.

My purpose of applying isn't solely due to my mcat. I'm not saying the mcat is entirely insigificant, all I'm saying is a few points lower in spite of selection criteria isn't going to magically turn someone into a dropout or drop down, and shouldn't serve to be such a strong detriment to applicants to med schools. The average mcat is a 24 or 25, and there are plenty people both in the past and now with mcats ranging from 24-29 who have gone onto become successful doctors, especially in larger proportions before selection criteria became so strict, and there are many who go DO and end up just as successful. You don't need a 30-33 mcat to be successful as a doctor or do well on boards, and to imply otherwise is ridiculous.

The mcat-step correlation isn't that great either. Bio sci had the greatest r^2 correlational value from what I read, and the other two sections had insignificant correlations. Look at the sections, when is one's knowledge of reading comprehension in art history going to be needed in medical school or in a future practice? It isn't. There is material on the mcat that has a very limited or no place in evaluating one's candidacy for medicine.

The idea that an individual with a 27-29 mcat will be any less successful in medical school than anyone else is completely absurd, and false. At this point in the selection process the fact that such applicants have such difficulties being accepted serves more of an example of how less meaningful of a metric the MCAT has become. In this case it may give ADCOMs an easy number to compare applicants, but the meaning adcoms may associate isn't usually there in the particular cases I mentioned. A barrier like that is unneccessary, and proving one's ability to succeed in a medical school environment and explore an AMAZING medical school enviroment (Tulane) is not only a valuable experience for anyone, but especially those with an mcat in that range to remind ADCOMs that people with those scores can and will succeed in medicine, and do just as well.

Honestly, if admissions was mcat scoreblind for applicants in the 27-35 range and more applicants in the lower range were admitted I doubt there would be much if any difference in the step scores med students achieve or their drop out/drop down rates. A process where a "30" is acceptable, but a 29 somehow isn't is aburd and nonsensical. It just creates an artificial glass ceiling to think so.

Finally, I absolutely deplore the term "back door" bc there are no easy routes to success, it's just some provide more valuable experiences and are equally or even more challenging, but benefit people a different way and are equally if not more so valuable. It's different strokes for different folks and we each seek out different programs. I'm not an entitled millenial, and I know very well the purpose of this program isn't for low mcats and sought it out for a multitude of reasons.

 

[dragonlore1337]

My purpose of applying isn't solely due to my mcat. I'm not saying the mcat is entirely insigificant, all I'm saying is a few points lower in spite of selection criteria isn't going to magically turn someone into a dropout or drop down, and shouldn't serve to be such a strong detriment to applicants to med schools. The average mcat is a 24 or 25, and there are plenty people both in the past and now with mcats ranging from 24-29 who have gone onto become successful doctors, especially in larger proportions before selection criteria became so strict, and there are many who go DO and end up just as successful. You don't need a 30-33 mcat to be successful as a doctor or do well on boards, and to imply otherwise is ridiculous.

The mcat-step correlation isn't that great either. Bio sci had the greatest r^2 correlational value from what I read, and the other two sections had insignificant correlations. Look at the sections, when is one's knowledge of reading comprehension in art history going to be needed in medical school or in a future practice? It isn't. There is material on the mcat that has a very limited or no place in evaluating one's candidacy for medicine.

The idea that an individual with a 27-29 mcat will be any less successful in medical school than anyone else is completely absurd, and false. At this point in the selection process the fact that such applicants have such difficulties being accepted serves more of an example of how less meaningful of a metric the MCAT has become. In this case it may give ADCOMs an easy number to compare applicants, but the meaning adcoms may associate isn't usually there in the particular cases I mentioned. A barrier like that is unneccessary, and proving one's ability to succeed in a medical school environment and explore an AMAZING medical school enviroment (Tulane) is not only a valuable experience for anyone, but especially those with an mcat in that range to remind ADCOMs that people with those scores can and will succeed in medicine, and do just as well.

Honestly, if admissions was mcat scoreblind for applicants in the 27-35 range and more applicants in the lower range were admitted I doubt there would be much if any difference in the step scores med students achieve or their drop out/drop down rates. A process where a "30" is acceptable, but a 29 somehow isn't is aburd and nonsensical. It just creates an artificial glass ceiling to think so.

Finally, I absolutely deplore the term "back door" bc there are no easy routes to success, it's just some provide more valuable experiences and are equally or even more challenging, but benefit people a different way and are equally if not more so valuable. It's different strokes for different folks and we each seek out different programs. I'm not an entitled millenial, and I know very well the purpose of this program isn't for low mcats and sought it out for a multitude of reasons.

Great thoughts and well-said. @sazerac - How about you address that because really it just looks like you're overgeneralizing about scores?

 

[lollerific2000]

Great thoughts and well-said. @sazerac - How about you address that because really it just looks like you're overgeneralizing about scores?

Coleworld

Making new accounts since '15

 

[dragonlore1337]

Coleworld

Making new accounts since '15

nope, I'm not him. If agreeing with someone made me another person, the whole world would literally be a collective oozing mass of conjoined body parts.

PS: Pointing fingers to who you think I am does very little to address a very interesting argument. Either contribute to the discussion or ship out.

 

[tntjuan]

@dragonlore1337, stop being a troll. This thread is for discussing matters regarding the ACP and not to argue aimlessly about a subject that is never going to be resolved. If that's what you are looking for go find a new thread.

 

[dragonlore1337]

@dragonlore1337, stop being a troll. This thread is for discussing matters regarding the ACP and not to argue aimlessly about a subject that is never going to be resolved. If that's what you are looking for go find a new thread.

If you think I'm trolling you should look up the word. I'm continuing a discussion that should be continued. You on the otherhand are just pointing fingers for absolutely no reason, butt out.

 

[Maps]

Anyways.

Can anyone shed some light onto how the program should be documented in AMCAS? I assume it would be listed under Schools, but I wanted to double check since we do not get any graduate credit hours for this program.

I'll probably call in and ask tomorrow but I wanted to see if anyone here knew first.

 

[chefboivardee]

Accepted and attending! Starting to look for housing/roommates if anyone's interested

 

[tntjuan]

Accepted and attending! Starting to look for housing/roommates if anyone's interested

Hey congratulations!!
Were you waitlisted before you got the acceptance or did you get accepted directly? and if you were waitlisted, how long did it take them to accept you and how long did they give you to make the decision?

 

[chefboivardee]

I got accepted directly I just didn't want to get in the middle of that argument haha

 

[Hepheastus]

I also got accepted last week and will be attending. @Maps , did they let you know how to document the program in AMCAS? I was wondering the same thing

 

[Maps]

I also got accepted last week and will be attending. @Maps , did they let you know how to document the program in AMCAS? I was wondering the same thing

No I couldn't get a hold of Shannon. I'm just gonna wait for now...I hope the info packet will have information on this. But feel free to call and let me know if you find out haha

 

[Hepheastus]

I ended up adding Tulane - grad for 15-16 under schools, and then for coursework I put down Anatomy, Histology, and Medical Neuroscience. I found an ACP thread from a couple of years ago where a few ACP students said they did the same so I think it should be fine

 

[tupig]

I was accepted yesterday, after being on the alternate list since 6/8.

 

[tntjuan]

I was accepted yesterday, after being on the alternate list since 6/8.

Congrats!! Would you mind telling me how long did they give you to make the decision?

 

[tupig]

Congrats!! Would you mind telling me how long did they give you to make the decision?

2 days to reply with a decision, and a week for them to receive the deposit.

 

[wildcats8]

2 days to reply with a decision, and a week for them to receive the deposit.

So it will probably be a week before they could possibly send out more acceptances

 

[sot]

Hey, anyone who has advice on how to finance the program, please post it. Loans are a bit scarce that don't require school certification, it seems. The optimal thing would be if someone finds a loan that would allow deferral while in school.

 

[Maps]

Hey, anyone who has advice on how to finance the program, please post it. Loans are a bit scarce that don't require school certification, it seems. The optimal thing would be if someone finds a loan that would allow deferral while in school.

I don't have much advice myself, but I would really recommend asking the ACP office if they know about any loans that previous students have had luck with. Yeah it sucks that we don't get any federal aid, and remember we also need proof of insurance to be enrolled as well

 

[TyrKinase]

Loans are tricky. When I did ACP in 2009-2010, the SCB office offered a list of programs offering financing but unfortunately, the list was very out of date. My classmates at the time had luck with Wells Fargo. Basically, you're getting a private loan and unlike a federal loan, your credit and possibly income matter. Of course this sucks if you're a student without a credit history and/or less-than-ideal credit. In that case, I would recommend talking with family or close friends who would be willing to co-sign.

The insurance requirement is also difficult. For those under 26 years of age, you can request to be added to your parents' insurance.

Good luck jumping through these final hoops -- ACP is still a great deal and for me, was easily one of the best decisions (and investments) I ever made.

 

[tntjuan]

Hey guys and gals, no news for any of us on the wait list?

 

[wildcats8]

Hey guys and gals, no news for any of us on the wait list?

It seems from previous threads there is a lot of movement late June, so hopefully we'll here some positive news soon.

 

[sot]

Thanks for the reply. One more question-- it seems like with the new curriculum setup, Anatomy in T1 only lasts 2.5 months. What do you do for the rest of the time?

 

[TyrKinase]

1) Wait for Histology to start
2) Take Neuroscience in the Spring (probably still optional, but taking it during ACP means your T1 year is a piece of cake)
3) Get a tutoring or teaching job

And if all that fails, you'll still be in New Orleans, so you'll have a few options...

 

[wildcats8]

I received an email from Ms. Dawsey today after I emailed her asking if there were any updates on the wait list and she said there is a possibility that she will be call another applicant Monday morning. Best of luck to everyone!

 

[zarfot]

1) Wait for Histology to start
2) Take Neuroscience in the Spring (probably still optional, but taking it during ACP means your T1 year is a piece of cake)
3) Get a tutoring or teaching job

And if all that fails, you'll still be in New Orleans, so you'll have a few options...

http://tmedweb.tulane.edu/portal/academic-calendar/item/t1-calendar-2015?category_id=84

So according to the T1 calendar Anatomy Shelf exam is 10/16 and Fundamentals I (with histology included) says 11/06 - does that mean we have 10/16 to 11/6 off?

 

[TyrKinase]

http://tmedweb.tulane.edu/portal/academic-calendar/item/t1-calendar-2015?category_id=84

So according to the T1 calendar Anatomy Shelf exam is 10/16 and Fundamentals I (with histology included) says 11/06 - does that mean we have 10/16 to 11/6 off?

I think you may be misreading the calendar. It looks like the final anatomy exam is on 10/16, after which medical students likely start Histology, Biochem, Physiology and Genetics (and ACP students just do Histology). So ACP students aren't off after 10/16, you just have less work than med students until the first exam which is 11/6.

 

[wildcats8]

Update for the people on the wait list: they have called five people so far this summer, so it seems that there is still a chance if they typically call eight to 12

 

[zarfot]

Another spot will be opening up - hope it goes to one of you guys.

 

[wildcats8]

Another spot will be opening up - hope it goes to one of you guys.

Congrats on the acceptance to medical school

 

[mdconcern]

.

 

[PG59]

Does anyone know what is going on with this program? I've not found a post for this cycle (2016-2017) and I read somewhere that with Tulane's change in med school curriculum that the two programs are no longer in sync. So I'm not sure what that implies for linkage. Planning on calling the office on Monday but if anyone has insight beforehand....

Looks like it might not be rolling admission if they give out all decisions in early June? Or I have mislead something. Thanks in advance.