TX resident, Low cgpa, decent sgpa, decent MCAT, reapplicant

[Obi184]

Thanks for taking a look.
Ok, here's the jest of it:
I'm a re-applicant. I just graduated with a BS in biology, minor in chem, cgpa of 3.37 (I have 2 F's, retaken and made A's), sgpa of 3.67, 30M MCAT (nothing lower than a 9). I had a huge upward track for my gpa, but I didn't finish my last semester as well as I could have. I did some volunteer work in the ED last year, but stopped when a crazy employee railed on me for nothing.

I didn't get any interviews last year. I applied to all TX MD's, TCOM, plus drexel, GWU, meharry, tulane, and VCU. I applied DO way too late, as in February, despite being told to do so (I had some personal stuff going on last cycle.) I had no leadership last year, no research, very little shadowing, and I honestly did not research the schools I was applying to very well (didn't know LOR reqs, etc.). I also did not submit the TX app or AMCAS until mid-august.

This year I gained leadership exp, I'm conducting a research project right now (non-clinical), I did more shadowing, including a family practice DO, but I still don't have a physician LOR. I submitted AACOMAS mid-august, the TX app late august, and AMCAS last week. All my secondaries for the DO schools and TX schools are in, but the TX app hasn't been verified yet. Obviously, neither has AMCAS. This years AMCAS has only 3 schools: Howard, Meharry, and Morehouse, and the secondaries will be done by the time AMCAS is verified (thanks SDN!) No, I am not a URM, but I did graduate from a HBCU and have done volunteer work throughout the community. What are my chances? What about options if I don't get in? SGU is an option for me. Thanks again all!

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[Catalystik]

How many years and total hours of active clinical experience do you have (I do not include shadowing in this category since it's a passive observership)?

As you are a reapplicant, you should know the value of applying early in the cycle. I assume you didn't apply sooner because critical ECs were still in the works.

If you don't get an acceptance, I suggest you apply to TCOM's SMP-like GPA boosting program.

 

[Obi184]

How many years and total hours of active clinical experience do you have (I do not include shadowing in this category since it's a passive observership)?

As you are a reapplicant, you should know the value of applying early in the cycle. I assume you didn't apply sooner because critical ECs were still in the works.

If you don't get an acceptance, I suggest you apply to TCOM's SMP-like GPA boosting program.

If you aren't counting shadowing, what DO you count? I'm not a nurse, PA, or anything else with massive amounts of patient contact. I work as a pharm tech in a area with above-avg patient contact. Do you count volunteer work in a clinical setting? You do know that's also just observational too, right?

TCOM's program interests me, but I'd have to move to complete it, I'd stop working, and I would, therefore, have to live off loans. So, I figure, if I'm going to do all that, why not just go caribbean instead? I wouldn't have to retake the MCAT (good thing because I would probably make a lower score) and I wouldn't be losing a year.

 

[ThaliaNox]

If you aren't counting shadowing, what DO you count? I'm not a nurse, PA, or anything else with massive amounts of patient contact. I work as a pharm tech in a area with above-avg patient contact. Do you count volunteer work in a clinical setting? You do know that's also just observational too, right?

TCOM's program interests me, but I'd have to move to complete it, I'd stop working, and I would, therefore, have to live off loans. So, I figure, if I'm going to do all that, why not just go caribbean instead? I wouldn't have to retake the MCAT (good thing because I would probably make a lower score) and I wouldn't be losing a year.

Being defensive really doesn't help anything.

Hands on volunteering in a clinical setting is certainly patient contact, assuming you are interacting with patients, not just watching, as in shadowing, or doing something like working in the hospital coffee shop, gift store or cafeteria. Most applicants aren't "nurses or PAs" but nearly all acceptees will have significant clinical experience, which is a term which generally does not include shadowing. Shadowing is also expected, but is judged separately. Semantics? Maybe. Reality? Yes.

Moving on to your original post, I don't see much chance for you at the HBCUs. You will have a lot better chance in Texas, but the fact that you dropped your ECs last year and your GPA dipped isn't going to go in your favor, since reapplicants are generally judged against themselves, and improvement is expected.

You have a slightly better chance at DO schools, where your stats are slightly above average, except the cumulative GPA. The fact that you shot in late applications last year may hurt you at those schools, as they will know that DO school is not your first choice. (It often isn't, but schools don't like to be reminded of this.)

I think it is premature for you to be considering the Carribean. You're not willing to move within Texas and live on loans, but you're willing to take the risk of living on loans in the Carribean with no guarantee of ever becoming a doctor?

 

[Catalystik]

If you aren't counting shadowing, what DO you count? I'm not a nurse, PA, or anything else with massive amounts of patient contact. I work as a pharm tech in a area with above-avg patient contact. Do you count volunteer work in a clinical setting? You do know that's also just observational too, right?

I count as clinical experience any interaction you have with patients, including at-the-window-time with pharmacy clients. I'd also count volunteer work in a clinical setting where you interact with sick people, whether it be taking insurance information or a history, taking vital signs, providing some ice water or food, transporting them from one department to another, bringing comfort items at request, or providing comfort through conversation, among other possibilities.

Why am I asking these questions? It's part of answering your question about what your chances are. Because if you don't have the essential ECs, it's not too late to add additional hours of patient contact and let schools know via update letter. An average applicant has 1.5 years of clinical experience totaling about 150 hours. If you have that (and your application reflects it), then you're fine for clinical experience.

 

[Obi184]

Being defensive really doesn't help anything.

Hands on volunteering in a clinical setting is certainly patient contact, assuming you are interacting with patients, not just watching, as in shadowing, or doing something like working in the hospital coffee shop, gift store or cafeteria. Most applicants aren't "nurses or PAs" but nearly all acceptees will have significant clinical experience, which is a term which generally does not include shadowing. Shadowing is also expected, but is judged separately. Semantics? Maybe. Reality? Yes.

Moving on to your original post, I don't see much chance for you at the HBCUs. You will have a lot better chance in Texas, but the fact that you dropped your ECs last year and your GPA dipped isn't going to go in your favor, since reapplicants are generally judged against themselves, and improvement is expected.

You have a slightly better chance at DO schools, where your stats are slightly above average, except the cumulative GPA. The fact that you shot in late applications last year may hurt you at those schools, as they will know that DO school is not your first choice. (It often isn't, but schools don't like to be reminded of this.)

I think it is premature for you to be considering the Carribean. You're not willing to move within Texas and live on loans, but you're willing to take the risk of living on loans in the Carribean with no guarantee of ever becoming a doctor?

Either way I'm taking a risk and living on loans.

I could move to Denton and I do well in the TCOM program, get into med school, and be on my way. I could also do poorly and, oh look, I don't really have anything to show for leaving my life where I have a decent job and, yay, now I have debt (which now, I have none).

I could also move to the caribbean, do med school, finish, then find that I don't have a residency to go to. It's also possible that I find a good residency and end up, again, being happy with my life.

Life is full of choices, some risky, some not so. I'm just trying to decide where to go from here.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[Obi184]

I count as clinical experience any interaction you have with patients, including at-the-window-time with pharmacy clients. I'd also count volunteer work in a clinical setting where you interact with sick people, whether it be taking insurance information or a history, taking vital signs, providing some ice water or food, transporting them from one department to another, bringing comfort items at request, or providing comfort through conversation, among other possibilities.

Why am I asking these questions? It's part of answering your question about what your chances are. Because if you don't have the essential ECs, it's not too late to add additional hours of patient contact and let schools know via update letter. An average applicant has 1.5 years of clinical experience totaling about 150 hours. If you have that (and your application reflects it), then you're fine for clinical experience.

Sorry, just woke up when I wrote my response.
I actually have over 200 hours of clinical volunteer work, plus a letter from the volunteer coordinator. What's your opinion on the caribbean? I just saw this article earlier:

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2009/07/caribbean-medical-schools-a-good-option/

and it gave a little insight.

Thanks.

 

[chadbrochill17]

What's your opinion on the caribbean? I just saw this article earlier:

http://www.studentdoctor.net/2009/07/caribbean-medical-schools-a-good-option/

and it gave a little insight.

Thanks.

The discussion at the end was the most helpful to me.
My opinion is I won't spend my first attempt, maybe two attempts for Carribbean because the numbers will probably be good enough, providing your MCAT is still recent enough.
I'm not doing it this year on the off chance that I get at least an interview at a US school. If I don't get in at least I know my numbers are good enough to get me an interview and that other parts of my application just need strengthening during the year in-between.

 

[LRAccord624]

TCOM is in Fort Worth, not in Denton. It's in an awesome area with a relatively low cost of living. You take classes with medical students for a year and if you do well, you substantially increase your chances of admission to medical school.

Do you know how much more expensive 2 years in the Caribbean (if you don't fail anything) is as compared to 1 year at TCOM and 2 yrs at a Texas medical school? It's a big difference, hence a MUCH larger risk for you. Also, if you want an accurate description of what life as a Caribbean medical student will be like, check out JonathanMD's blog: http://4medschool.blogspot.com/. It will be harder to move, harder to live, and they will not care if you fail out. It'll be like, thanks for the money, see ya!

Not to mention that when clinical years roll around, you have to schedule most or all rotations back in the US (hello hassle and travel expenses). This carries over to residency. It is more difficult to match into US residencies as a Caribbean graduate.

I'm giving you all this information because you have been comparing TCOM's SMP and the freakin' Caribbean as equal options, which they are not.

I'm not saying that there aren't great physicians who come out of the Caribbean- I'm saying they had to work way harder (in many ways) to get where they are.

 

[Catalystik]

TCOM is in Fort Worth, not in Denton. It's in an awesome area with a relatively low cost of living. You take classes with medical students for a year and if you do well, you substantially increase your chances of admission to medical school.

Do you know how much more expensive 2 years in the Caribbean (if you don't fail anything) is as compared to 1 year at TCOM and 2 yrs at a Texas medical school? It's a big difference, hence a MUCH larger risk for you. Also, if you want an accurate description of what life as a Caribbean medical student will be like, check out JonathanMD's blog: http://4medschool.blogspot.com/. It will be harder to move, harder to live, and they will not care if you fail out. It'll be like, thanks for the money, see ya!

Not to mention that when clinical years roll around, you have to schedule most or all rotations back in the US (hello hassle and travel expenses). This carries over to residency. It is more difficult to match into US residencies as a Caribbean graduate.

I'm giving you all this information because you have been comparing TCOM's SMP and the freakin' Caribbean as equal options, which they are not.

I'm not saying that there aren't great physicians who come out of the Caribbean- I'm saying they had to work way harder (in many ways) to get where they are.

Hey, LRAccord, Really good post. I wish I could have said it that well myself.

 

[LRAccord624]

Thanks!

 

[Obi184]

Again, I really do thank everyone for their responses, and I apologize if I seemed a little short before.

I've been looking very carefully at the TCOM M.S. program, as well as trying to find a suitable job in Fort Worth, just in case I don't get in anywhere.

BUT.... I just got my first interview invite today: PCOM-GA. I was so happy I could have cried.

Thanks again for the input everyone!

 

[LRAccord624]

Hey congrats

I'm sure a few more invites will roll in over the next few months. I didn't have my first invite until October and ended up with 7 in all (out of 10 schools applied to). So it's way too early to worry.