UC Irvine vs. USC (Keck)?

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swtiepie711

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I've tried searching for this comparison, but haven't found much and thought I'd ask again. While tempted to put this in the Allo thread, I figure it might be better placed here.....I'm looking for thoughts that anyone has on their experiences at either of these two schools (for those who are in med school) or if you have interviewed at either/both or if you have friends at these places/etc.

Below is a rough comparison (just what's on the top of my head)

UCI
- Cheaper
- Med Center away from Campus
- Students tend to live in on campus housing or nearby
- Little/no alumni network
- H/P/F grading, pre-clinical years
- More suburban setting
- Slightly lower ranked (for whatever that's worth - #46 for Research)
- My faculty interviewer seemed a little distant/lacking enthusiasm
- Didn't get to talk to many students but they seemed a little down (who knows, maybe it was a pre-test day)

USC
- More expensive
- Med Center across the street from Campus
- Students tend to live farther away (S. Pasadena?) and commute
- Active alumni network
- P/F grading, pre-clinical years
- Urban setting
- According to some students, not being able to speak Spanish puts you at a disadvantage
- Slightly better ranked (for whatever that's worth - #36 for Research)
- My faculty interviewer couldn't stop talking about why he LOVED USC, etc.-- Students were chatty, enthusiastic, encouraging, etc.

From the interview, I didn't get a great look at the facilities (i.e. we didn't tour either anatomy lab, etc. USC supposedly has a small library) - don't know how much this matters.

Thoughts, anyone, on the pros/cons of these two schools? Which would you pick & why?

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I guess your financial status makes a giant difference in this decision. I think the cost would make my decision. Imagine budgeting pennies for 4yrs.
 
So... according to my excel sheet:

USC research: 36
USC primary care: 63
UCI research: 46
UCI primary care: 52

If you add them, you end up with something pretty equivalent... From what i've seen, primary care stats tend to correspond a little more with the clinical experience students get... But here are my real concerns.

(first of all, i haven't interviewed at UCI, but my dad did his residency there and was a prof. at the medical school for a while, and i lived in irvine until i was around 8)

UCI - if you're gonna have kids soon - is a fantastic place to have a family.
USC is NOT.

Clinical care - the experience is going to be richer at USC - although if you don't have spanish, get on it - for either school really, but especially USC. For me, that's actually the most exciting part, b/c I've had TONS of clinical experience and would be bored out of my mind at many school's attempts at giving students clinical experience in their first two years, but USC does a really great job (though you have to educate yourself in a large part and be proactive). But, I also speak Spanish, and that part really intrigues me too.

UCI's students are probably a bit more nerdy. Meaning, if you need people more quiet and to study more, they're it. But USC's students were really rambuncious (how on earth do you spell that?). Which could be distracting.

Commute - you'll do it either way (UCI's rotations are a bit all over, so you wont necessarily be near UCI's main campus). I HATE commuting, this is the sad part about LA...

Price - if you want to be a doctor who makes a lot of money, go to either (but if you want to get richer quicker, go to UCI so you're not over a hundred thousand dollars in debt). If you want to take your degree and go work for non-profit or something, go to UCI so you don't have debt.

International - USC will most likely have better international opportunities (more funding, more alums everywhere, etc.).

Football (i hate football) - but if you like it, USC.

um... that's all i've got to say about that.
 
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lol off the topic (just for fun):

UCI: hot asian undergrads
USC: rich spoiled (possibly hot) undergrads

haha, at least that was just my observation.
 
lol off the topic (just for fun):

UCI: hot asian undergrads
USC: rich spoiled (possibly hot) undergrads

haha, at least that was just my observation.

Actually (well, i'm not going to argue with the fact that UCI has more hot asian girls - more asian girls in general), but the diversity and down-to-earthness of USC med school students was a real surprise to me. I don't really like their undergrad and expected the same... but it wasn't, it was incredibly diverse and laid back.
 
lol i hope you weren't taking me seriously? hehe
 
Maydak, congrats on your USC acceptance - may see you in class this Aug :)

Looking at the two, I tend to think clinical experiences might be richer at USC (LA County).

The spanish situation scares me a little- I took Spanish in middle school/High school, but it's been 7 years since I last really spoke it and even then it was in my suburban high school classroom with a bunch of other learners (image: slowly spoken poorly accented Spanish). I picked up the Rosetta stone (not perfect, I'm sure, but seemed to get the best reviews), but I haven't had a ton of time to use it. I'm hoping in the next 6 mos to dedicate some time to that....

I'm a married female - so the whole hot asian chick thing doesn't really rev my engines :) haha But the family point of view does - yes, overall, I feel like Irvine would be a more pleasant place for my husband & I to live (albeit we're not moving on the kid front til most likely after medical school).

Expenses matter, but honestly not THAT much. I'm pretty much SOL for FinAid no matter where I go and will be loaning it most of the way. Maybe I should care more, but I feel like I wouldn't let that be a deciding factor.

Also, it seems like USC has a little more name factor to it (again, probably due to the football team). What this matters, I don't know.

Oy... random thoughts-o-mine.... any one else have some random USC/UC Irvine thoughts to share? Curriculum? Happiness of students?
 
I might suggest doing some sleuthing.

UCI no longer has a liver transplant program b/c their transplant "team" was actually UCSD faculty that drove out to Irvine in the event that Irvine accepted a liver, which rarely happened because UCI didn't want to risk a failed transplant and tank their numbers. bottom line: UCI didn't get livers for its tranplant patients and regarded the organs and their patients as a risk.


USC has gotten flak recently because the survival numbers for its transplant recipients has been a bit under what it should be. USC traditionally provides transplants for "riskier" patients and uses "riskier" organs. Bottom line: USC will treat patients that other hospitals turn away.

remember who you will be learning from for the next four years.
 
If you take out the asian criterion, USC girls might have the edge. ;) haha. Very important factor since we're all going to med school for girls right? :laugh:

UCI has a lecture-only curriculum. USC students are much happier...maybe cuz of the better curriculum. USC also seems like an active campus with people everywhere (goes with the whole urban theme). UCI is quite a boring place with lots of empty space.

I'm trying to be unbiased, but then I'm not getting into UCI, so it's hard. :laugh:
 
remember who you will be learning from for the next four years.

sounds like you'd side with USC based on their potentially higher moral standards as far as not turning patients away?
 
lol, hahaha, yea asian girls are too smart, they steal all your money hehe. need to get a rich white girl. j/m
 
UCI has a lecture-only curriculum.

Not to be a dummy, but vs. what? Are you referring to Lecture-PBL combo?

USC students are much happier...maybe cuz of the better curriculum.

Is this from insider knowledge? what you experienced when you were there?

I have a friend at med school in So-Cal who was at some So-Cal med student get together (no idea - maybe a talk? convention? who knows) but she said the kids from USC & UCSD were complaining about their school, while UC Irvine kids didn't have much negative to say. That's the ONLY thing I know about "student happiness" ('cept of course, the "of course we're happy!" from the students on interview day - makes it very hard to judge unless you have some other connections to the med school)

USC also seems like an active campus with people everywhere (goes with the whole urban theme). UCI is quite a boring place with lots of empty space.

I could see this. I used to live in LA - very hip place with lots to do. While I never lived in the OC, it has a more suburban appeal - which could work for me & my hubby

I'm trying to be unbiased, but then I'm not getting into UCI, so it's hard. :laugh:

How do you know UCI's not in your future?
 
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sounds like you'd side with USC based on their potentially higher moral standards as far as not turning patients away?

could be that...


...also think about what would prepare you better for your future practice: County hospital in East LA

or

University hospital in suburban Orange County*



*clearly the clinical program at any UC hospital system is not soft, but let's be serious, there's NO place like County/USC in terms of "exposure"
 
Not to be a dummy, but vs. what? Are you referring to Lecture-PBL combo?



Is this from insider knowledge? what you experienced when you were there?

I have a friend at med school in So-Cal who was at some So-Cal med student get together (no idea - maybe a talk? convention? who knows) but she said the kids from USC & UCSD were complaining about their school, while UC Irvine kids didn't have much negative to say. That's the ONLY thing I know about "student happiness" ('cept of course, the "of course we're happy!" from the students on interview day - makes it very hard to judge unless you have some other connections to the med school)



I could see this. I used to live in LA - very hip place with lots to do. While I never lived in the OC, it has a more suburban appeal - which could work for me & my hubby



How do you know UCI's not in your future?

I work at UCI and know quite a few students here...I actually didn't know about the curriculum until last week. It's apparently just straight lecture. At USC, there is PBL and a lot of small group learning.

The happiness of students is definitely not quantitative...just my perception from seeing students around UCI SOM campus, which is where I work. I had a really good impression of USC student morale at my interview...I guess you make a very good point about interview day bias. However, my perception was really based on the random students and professors we saw walking by throughout the tour who were exceptionally friendly, smiling big and didn't hesitate stopping to talk to us and answer our questions.

I guess the way I would personally describe the campuses is UCI campus makes me sleepy and USC wakes me up. **Keep in mind that UCI campus means work for me. :laugh:

If the suburban thing appeals to you, it doesn't get much more suburban than UCI. =) Irvine really is a great place for raising kids. :thumbup: This is not happening anytime soon for me.

At UCI, I'm on hold pre-interview. :(
 
Sweetiepie, you are 23, and you are NOT allowed to call your husband "hubby" yet! :) That is reserved for middle-aged women from the Midwest.

That having been said, it's a interesting question, and I would go to USC if I were me (OC, boring) and UCI if I were you (husband, less expensive).

However, it's totally premature. You're getting into UCLA or UCSF, and you know it. :p
 
So let me start by saying that I may be biased since I went to UCI for undergrad and most graduates of UCI don't normally rave about their alma mater. But I think it is because of good reason. Although the medical school experience is sure to be different, nothing could make me go back to the land of beige. ;) So if you want to have a lot of things to do and see, steer clear of Irvine.
With that being said, I would agree that you have to look at the experience you're getting. There is no place like county. Although there are a great number of underserved patients in Orange County, USC will give you the best tools to serve these patients in the long run (and that's assuming you wish too), and will make your cases in "normal cities/towns" look a lot easier.
In addition, you have to consider if you are going to stay in California for residency and/or practice. Although it may not be that highly ranked, the USC name goes a LONG way here. Like someone said, maybe it is the football team. But go into any OC hospital and it's hard not to find a doctor with a USC pen, or some other insignia item. The majority of the doctors I have met (at work, during volunteering, or my own docs) either went to USC or agree that USC is an important name down here.
Again, I'm kind of biased. But that's my two cents.
 
So let me start by saying that I may be biased since I went to UCI for undergrad and most graduates of UCI don't normally rave about their alma mater. But I think it is because of good reason. Although the medical school experience is sure to be different, nothing could make me go back to the land of beige. ;) So if you want to have a lot of things to do and see, steer clear of Irvine.
With that being said, I would agree that you have to look at the experience you're getting. There is no place like county. Although there are a great number of underserved patients in Orange County, USC will give you the best tools to serve these patients in the long run (and that's assuming you wish too), and will make your cases in "normal cities/towns" look a lot easier.
In addition, you have to consider if you are going to stay in California for residency and/or practice. Although it may not be that highly ranked, the USC name goes a LONG way here. Like someone said, maybe it is the football team. But go into any OC hospital and it's hard not to find a doctor with a USC pen, or some other insignia item. The majority of the doctors I have met (at work, during volunteering, or my own docs) either went to USC or agree that USC is an important name down here.
Again, I'm kind of biased. But that's my two cents.

Yeah, I don't know how much weight the lofty USC name really carries... It's not quite Harvard med, and it's close to 100K more.
 
Yeah, I don't know how much weight the lofty USC name really carries... It's not quite Harvard med, and it's close to 100K more.

Well...I don't think I'm getting into Harvard Med or anything of comparable reputation =/. That's why there are no posts saying USC vs HSM.
 
Sweetiepie, you are 23, and you are NOT allowed to call your husband "hubby" yet! :) That is reserved for middle-aged women from the Midwest.

That having been said, it's a interesting question, and I would go to USC if I were me (OC, boring) and UCI if I were you (husband, less expensive).

However, it's totally premature. You're getting into UCLA or UCSF, and you know it. :p


Oh, Dopaminesurge, you are too funny! I just get a kick out of that word ("hubby"), but, since I'm not middle-aged nor from the midwest, I'll conceed. Husband it is ;)

I hope you're right on this premature decision comptemplating... I asked this a while ago when I first heard back from USC & UCI, but I got little response. Whenever anyone asks about this process and I tell them my status, they want to know where I would pick as of now. To this I don't have an answer, and, like I've said, I hope UCSF or UCLA swoops in and saves me from having to make that decision ;) (Ya hear that, SF? Ya listening, LA? Woo hoo, I'm over here! :D ) Regardless, I can't keep my mind from contemplating the UCI/USC debate..... Thought I'd get some more recent opinions.....

As for my husband - as of now, he seems to be digging Irvine. He seems to think that the sunny OC suburban atmosphere is more uplifting, that, consequently, I may have a happier medical school experience, and the lower cost is always a plus. That said, my father-in-law went to 'SC (he's already talking about getting season tix next year) and my husband has continued to say that whereever I want to go matters most in the end. We're a great team, he's incredibly supportive and we'll make a decision in the end that works for us.

Thanks, you guys, for all of your thoughts! I'll tuck them away for a future day.....

:luck: GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE WITH YOUR APPS AND DECISIONS! :luck:
 
Well...I don't think I'm getting into Harvard Med or anything of comparable reputation =/. That's why there are no posts saying USC vs HSM.

Amen, sista'! ...er, brotha'? haha

Yea, Harvard's given me no love (for the second time in my life... not that I have hard feelings)... it's ok, HMS, I'll be happy hear in Sunny California :cool:
 
Yeah, I don't know how much weight the lofty USC name really carries... It's not quite Harvard med, and it's close to 100K more.

this is a common sentiment among many premeds, but you have to realize that California is a completely different animal when it comes to a lot of things, healthcare being one of those things.

Sure, having backing from Harvard will get your foot in the door a BUNCH of places, all over the world, even.

USC, on the other hand, has one of the strongest (in a crazy, fanatic sort of way) alumni networks because it is almost exclusively concentrated in southern california. Almost 90% of Keck graduates stay in California for residencies, and stay in California to practice.

Just like LAC/USC is something else, USC's alumni network is nothing to be scoffed at. Ask any Med4 or resident, you can be a total badass but who you know plays a large part in landing that coveted spot at tough programs.
 
First off, congrats on your acceptances.

Next, I really like USC. I'll address issues/comments people have mentioned so far:

Tuition - The cost definitely sucks. I don't get any financial help from parents or a spouse, so I'm taking the full cost of living out in loans. I shudder at the amount I'll have accrued by the time I graduate. However, it's not like I'm starving or saving pennies - it just means I'll live frugally for a longer period after I graduate and begin earning an income than some other people will.

Spanish - Definitely learn it if you're going to be anywhere in California. I'm nowhere near fluent, but can speak/understand at around an intermediate level and have found this to be helpful. There are beginner, intermediate, and advanced classes here on the med school campus for people who want to learn, so you don't have to commute to the undergrad campus. I'd suggest learning a bit before starting school, though.

A LOT (I think the majority) of my professors went to USC for med school, USC or somewhere else for residency, and are back now to teach. They truly do love it here, as far as I can tell. And speaking of profs, most of them are excellent lecturers. Some are phenomenal, a few are crappy, but by and large they're very good, spend a lot of time on their lectures and handouts, and all say we should contact them or come visit them if we have any questions or just want to discuss anything.

Anatomy lab - I looked at quite a few anatomy labs during my interviews last year, and being as unbiased as possible, our anatomy lab is AMAZING. First off, the smell isn't that bad. Obviously it's not pleasant either, but it's WAY less powerful than the smell in every other lab I saw. In the allopathic forum there have been threads dedicated to complaining about how the "anatomy smell" sticks with you for the entire year, in your skin, no matter how hard you scrub, and that the clothes you wear in lab smell so bad by the end of the year than you have to toss them. Totally not true here! I take a shower after lab, and don't smell a bit like formalin. I toss my scrubs in the wash, and they come out smelling like new. I actually wear the same shoes I wear in lab on other days, and they don't smell a bit. The price you pay for this amazing ventilation is that the lab is COLD, but if you wear a long-sleeved shirt under your scrubs (or a sweatshirt), and avoid the air vents, it's fine.

Library - It is really small. There's a nice lounge on the 1st floor, and good cubicles for studying on the 2nd floor, but overall it's not that great.

Kids - The campus itself is not in a great neighborhood for raising a family, but there are a lot of great neighborhoods relatively close to it. I don't know LA very well, but the parts I've seen of Monterey Hills (where a ton of 1st years live), Pasadena, and South Pasadena were really nice, residential, and quiet, with tree-lined streets and beautiful houses.

Clinical experience - County is incredible! This probably won't mean much now, but County gets kids with kernicterus, tons of leprosy cases, and a lot of other diseases that you would normally only see in 3rd world countries. And then you get to contrast all of that with University Hospital, which is also across the street and takes a lot of difficult cases from all over the country, and has a much wealthier population. We spend every Tuesday morning in the hospital, and alternate between University and County. The difference is so huge, and I honestly think just having one or the other would make for a very 1-sided clinical experience and training.

Commuting - Most people live within a 10-20 minute drive of the school (and that's including traffic). If you're really anti-commuting, it's easy to find a neighborhood to live in nearby.

Snobby students - Of course there are a few people with brand new BMWs, and some people who don't even need to take out loans, but that is definitely the minority. And even the people who are well-off are typically really nice and not snobby in the slightest.

Curriculum - I don't have any means of comparison, but I think our curriculum is pretty good. The number of hours in class isn't too bad, they tend to mix our days up with a combo of lecture and/or lab and/or small group discussions. We just started systems blocks (before it was "core principles" - pretty much just all the random foundation things they thought we needed), and so far I like how it's arranged. And P/F is a HUGE blessing. The one thing students consistently complain about is our "professionalism in the practice of medicine" class. It covers ethics, culture, professionalism, etc, in small groups, and is pretty touchy-feely. I don't mind it, but I was a psych major, so it's more up my alley.

Happiness of students - For being in medical school and having to spend the majority of their time studying, I'd say my classmates are really happy overall. Oddly enough, even during finals week most people are smiling (myself included). I don't really know how to quantify this, though.

Residency matching - I haven't explored this too much yet, but I did go to two dermatology and radiology meetings given by the residency directors for each. For rads, there were 17 applicants last year and 18 the year before, and all matched. For derm, there were something like 11 applicants last year and 8 the year before, and all matched. Both residency directors told us they personally oversee getting us into residencies - from getting us research projects, advising us throughout all 4 years, and looking over our personal statements/match list ranking/application, to getting us interviews at other programs and using their numerous connections all over the country to call in favors and help us the most they can. I don't know if this is the case at every med school, but I was pretty impressed.

I don't know the truth behind this, but I have heard multiple times that USC grads get so much intense clinical training at County that when they go on externships during 3rd and 4th years they sometimes have to teach other 3rd/4th years or even interns how to do certain things. Even if that's not true, I do know our experience/knowledge looks pretty impressive when we go on externships.

One of my roommates had to choose between UCI and USC last year, and she said the choice was really easy for her. I can't remember exactly why, but she said something about the clinical experience and facilities.

And there you have my very biased opinion. :laugh:
 
Both residency directors told us they personally oversee getting us into residencies - from getting us research projects, advising us throughout all 4 years, and looking over our personal statements/match list ranking/application, to getting us interviews at other programs and using their numerous connections all over the country to call in favors and help us the most they can. I don't know if this is the case at every med school, but I was pretty impressed.


while all medical schools care greatly for their students, and may even go to these lengths for their students, it doesn't guarantee that it will be as successful as USC's efforts.

it's impossible to explain, but the voodoo that USC uses in its alumni network straight up WORKS.
 
USC, on the other hand, has one of the strongest (in a crazy, fanatic sort of way) alumni networks because it is almost exclusively concentrated in southern california.

No joke... the 'SC connection isn't to be scoffed at. It's definitely a real phenomena, albeit maybe more powerful in the Business world or the like. USC evokes a LOT of pride in its graduates, and it seems the connection is definitely more net-workable then, say, the alumni association at UC Irvine :)
 
USC, on the other hand, has one of the strongest (in a crazy, fanatic sort of way) alumni networks because it is almost exclusively concentrated in southern california. Almost 90% of Keck graduates stay in California for residencies, and stay in California to practice.

Just like LAC/USC is something else, USC's alumni network is nothing to be scoffed at. Ask any Med4 or resident, you can be a total badass but who you know plays a large part in landing that coveted spot at tough programs.

Oh, that reminds me... the derm residency director also said that the majority of all derm residency slots in southern California go to USC grads. I forget the exact numbers, but it was along the lines of 9 total residency spots at UCSD, UCLA, UCI, and USC, and of those 9, 6 going to USC students. (but, again, I don't know the exact numbers, so just look at the ratio)

(Not that you're interested in derm - I just think this serves as a good example of one of the benefits of going to USC)
 
Hey Sophie,

Thanks for all of the input! I really appreciate the time you took to write all of that out! It's funny you bring up Derm & Rad - both things I'm considering ;)

I, too, am looking at zip for FinAid - it will all be loans - but, for some reason, I'm not too worried about it....

Random other side note - USC seems to play up LA County (which I'm sure is a GREAT learning experience), but I've also heard things about pissy housestaff due to understaffing, language barrier being a hindrence to learning, etc. Thoughts?
 
I interviewed at USC recently as an OOS. As a 24 year old single guy, I have to say I was impressed by the USC girls. Very hot, very nice. This could influence my decision. Yeah, I know, I am shallow.
 
Hey Sophie,

Thanks for all of the input! I really appreciate the time you took to write all of that out! It's funny you bring up Derm & Rad - both things I'm considering ;)

I, too, am looking at zip for FinAid - it will all be loans - but, for some reason, I'm not too worried about it....

Random other side note - USC seems to play up LA County (which I'm sure is a GREAT learning experience), but I've also heard things about pissy housestaff due to understaffing, language barrier being a hindrence to learning, etc. Thoughts?

My input won't be too helpful, since I'm only a 1st year, but my interactions with the house staff have been fine. I've only come across one nurse who looked like we were a huge nuisance, while the rest have been helpful. But my interactions with them are pretty limited, since my instructor does most of the talking to other doctors, nurses, etc.

The language barrier could be a problem. A lot of the patients at County don't speak any English, so I could see this becoming an issue. During 1st year so far the nurses give us the patients that speak English fluently or at least moderately well, so I haven't had too much difficulty.

County is definitely understaffed, but one positive of this that I've heard is that 3rd/4th year medical students function almost on the level of residents or doctors. For instance, one 4th year I know said that during her 3rd year, in the morning on the first day of her OB/Gyn rotation, the attending showed her how to do a pelvic exam. The attending asked her if she thought she had a good grasp of how to do it, and when the student said she did, the attending told her to go give pelvic exams to the patients in the other exam rooms. County being understaffed, and full of patients with no insurance, means that medical students aren't just shadowing - they're actually useful members of the team.
 
Working at County is like entering a time warp and being trasnported back to the mid 20th century. The place is completely inefficient, but if you can hack it here every other hospital in the country will seem like a breeze.

If I were the OP I would focus more on OC vs LA and tuition. UCI and USC will pretty much give you the same great education.

The tuition issue is a no-brainer: UCI is cheaper (unless you go to USC and live in your parents' house, in which case the costs are comparable).

Being in a city that makes you happy (ie, weather, family nearby, etc) can have a huge impact on your performance and thus your chances of matching well come 4th year. When considering USC's location, keep in mind that you won't be living in the ghettos and that you will most likely be hanging out in Pasadena or West LA in your free time.
 
this is a common sentiment among many premeds, but you have to realize that California is a completely different animal when it comes to a lot of things, healthcare being one of those things.

Sure, having backing from Harvard will get your foot in the door a BUNCH of places, all over the world, even.

USC, on the other hand, has one of the strongest (in a crazy, fanatic sort of way) alumni networks because it is almost exclusively concentrated in southern california. Almost 90% of Keck graduates stay in California for residencies, and stay in California to practice.

Just like LAC/USC is something else, USC's alumni network is nothing to be scoffed at. Ask any Med4 or resident, you can be a total badass but who you know plays a large part in landing that coveted spot at tough programs.

Interesting. Does this extend only to SoCal? I've been in the bay area for 15 years, and USC's nothing but disrespected as overrated and extraordinarily expensive up here, undergrad and otherwise.
 
Interesting. Does this extend only to SoCal? I've been in the bay area for 15 years, and USC's nothing but disrespected as overrated and extraordinarily expensive up here, undergrad and otherwise.

Well, if it means anything, north of the bay they are still respected physicians (though the undergrad is another story). The bay area has Stanford, whose snootyism trumps even that of USC, and UCSF, which is just the best.
 
Well, if it means anything, north of the bay they are still respected physicians (though the undergrad is another story). The bay area has Stanford, whose snootyism trumps even that of USC, and UCSF, which is just the best.

Yep, yep. That's where I'm sitting at the moment. Stanford Hospital. Home of the champs. :rolleyes:
 
Okay, so I made this same decision last year and I am now at Keck. Your pros and cons are pretty much exactly what I had written up when I was trying to decide and what really made the decision for me was this: I took money out of the picture.

Now that might sound rediculous when you're talking about tens of thousands of dollars, but c'mon, you're going to be paying back a lot of money either way and what should really matter is the quality of the education and your personal level of comfort. I have no doubt that I made the right decision. Sure, I'm dishing out tons of cash, but I am unbelivably happy with the faculty, my fellow students and the amazing experiences that I've already had at county/USC hospital. You will see EVERYTHING by the time you get out and that will inevitably make you a better candidate for residency (not to mention the fact that USC has great board scores every year).

As for the living situation, it's not bad at all. Most people live in the Montery Hills/Pasadena/Alhambra areas their first year and then branch out to places like downtown, Los Felis, Silverlake, Santa Monica, etc. in the consecutive years. That was actually something that bothered me about USC. I wasn't sure if there would be a good student community when everyone lived so far away from eachother. My fears were unfounded. People at USC are very social and the friends that I have made this year are even better than those that I made in college.

Oh, and that whole University of Spoiled Children thing doesn't carry over from the undergrad campus (I was scared of that too). Don't get me wrong, it does exist at the undergrad campus, but I only go there for the football games so it's no big deal.

If you have any additional questions just PM me and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
 
Do people think it is a good or bad thing that so many USC med students do residency at USC? On one hand, it says the program believes enough in its students to accept them for their residency program. But on the other hand, something about having 50-60% of your students stay in the same place for another 3-8 years doesn't sit quite right with me. Your thoughts folks?
 
So let me start by saying that I may be biased since I went to UCI for undergrad and most graduates of UCI don't normally rave about their alma mater. But I think it is because of good reason. Although the medical school experience is sure to be different, nothing could make me go back to the land of beige. ;) So if you want to have a lot of things to do and see, steer clear of Irvine.
With that being said, I would agree that you have to look at the experience you're getting. There is no place like county. Although there are a great number of underserved patients in Orange County, USC will give you the best tools to serve these patients in the long run (and that's assuming you wish too), and will make your cases in "normal cities/towns" look a lot easier.
In addition, you have to consider if you are going to stay in California for residency and/or practice. Although it may not be that highly ranked, the USC name goes a LONG way here. Like someone said, maybe it is the football team. But go into any OC hospital and it's hard not to find a doctor with a USC pen, or some other insignia item. The majority of the doctors I have met (at work, during volunteering, or my own docs) either went to USC or agree that USC is an important name down here.
Again, I'm kind of biased. But that's my two cents.


I have a problem with this statement. Southern California, especially Orange County, is not rural Texas. We have wayyyy too many doctors here (Orange).

you people make Orange County out to be some boring old suburban. Give me a break.
 
My two cents:
For me location is a big factor. I did not apply to USC for this reason, but I did to Irvine (and got accepted). UCLA (i.e Westwood) and UCD are also in great locations if you're considering these (waiting to hear from these :) ).
 
I have a problem with this statement. Southern California, especially Orange County, is not rural Texas. We have wayyyy too many doctors here (Orange).

All you people make Orange County out to be some boring old suburban. Give me a break.

Um maybe that's bc you're thinking like the typical person who assumes everyone in OC has money and access to everything. In my area, there is a large underserved Hispanic population who does not have access to healthcare. Many have treatable conditions such as diabetes and high bp, but do not have health insurance. If you go to County, you see that USC really focuses on the underserved. You do not have to be in a rural area to have an underserved community.
 
Um maybe that's bc you're thinking like the typical person who assumes everyone in OC has money and access to everything. In my area, there is a large underserved Hispanic population who does not have access to healthcare. Many have treatable conditions such as diabetes and high bp, but do not have health insurance. If you go to County, you see that USC really focuses on the underserved. You do not have to be in a rural area to have an underserved community.

People in Orange County are very rich (average household income in the $70ks). There are also very poor people. The term underserved is used to describe places that have very low concentrations of clinicians, e.g., a rural town in the middle of nowhere. The people you describe do not have access not because of insufficient supply (the definition of underserved). By the same principle, what you say may also be true in other major metropolitan areas. They'll always be those in big cities who, due to economic reasons, do not receive adequate healthcare.

I stand by my original statement, Southern California is not underserved.
 
People in Orange County are very rich (average household income in the $70ks). There are also very poor people. The term underserved is used to describe places that have very low concentrations of clinicians, e.g., a rural town in the middle of nowhere. The people you describe do not have access not because of insufficient supply (the definition of underserved). By the same principle, what you say may also be true in other major metropolitan areas. They'll always be those in big cities who, due to economic reasons, do not receive adequate healthcare.

I stand by my original statement, Southern California is not underserved.

1)Well according to AMCAS you are incorrect. They classify my area as Underserved.
2)A recent AAMC article focused on a clinic that works with the underserved in Washington, DC (big city)
3)Also if you sign up for a program to serve the underserved in exchange for tuition money, there are always cities listed within the choices of locations.
4)If underserved just meant rural areas, then it wouldn't even be a category. The underserved would then fall under "rural medicine".
5) According to the Dept of Health & Human Services:
Health Professional Shortage Areas (HPSAs) may have shortages of primary medical care, dental or mental health providers and may be urban or rural areas, population groups or medical or other public facilities.​
Medically Underserved Areas (MUA) may be a whole county or a group of contiguous counties, a group of county or civil divisions or a group of urban census tracts in which residents have a shortage of personal health services.​
Medically Underserved Populations (MUPs) may include groups of persons who face economic, cultural or linguistic barriers to health care.​

It doesn't seem like I am going to change your mind. But thought I would try. Anyone else have opinions on what defines an underserved population?
 
I stand by my original statement, Southern California is not underserved.

According to the national government, the following Southern California areas are designated as official Medically Underserved Areas (MUA) OR Medically Underserved Populations (MUP):

Medically Underserved Areas (MUA) may be a whole county or a group of contiguous counties, a group of county or civil divisions or a group of urban census tracts in which residents have a shortage of personal health services.

Medically Underserved Populations (MUPs) may include groups of persons who face economic, cultural or linguistic barriers to health care.


ORANGE COUNTY
Low Inc - Fullerton Service Area 00253 MUP
Low Inc - Brea West La Habre Service 00254 MUP
Central Santa Ana Service Area 00294 MUA
Low Inc & Mfw - Dana Point Service Area 00319 MUP
Low Inc/Hmls- Garden S/ San W(Mssa 116i) 07422 MUP

LOS ANGELES COUNTY
El Monte N. E.( M S S A 78.2oo) 00243 MUA
Low Inc - Palos Verdes Service Area 00244 MUP
Low Inc - South Gate Service Area 00245 MUP
Bell S. W./ Cudahy ( M S S A 78.2ddd) 00306 MUA
Exposition/ Leimert Park( M S S A 78.2l) 00335 MUA
Watts/ Willowbrook( M S S A 78.2aaa) 00337 MUA
Los Angeles Service Area 00340 MUA
Low Inc - West Covina Service Area 00362 MUP
El Sereno N./ Highland P( M S S A 78.2i) 00363 MUA
Pico Union/Westlake Service Area 00383 MUA
Chinatown/Dowtown/Echo Park South Service Area 04011 MUA
Long Beach/ West Central (Mssa78.2jjj) 07153 MUA
North Hollywood ( M S S A 78.2bb) 07330 MUA
South Central Northwest (Mssa 78.2k) 07353 MUA
Firestone/ Florence S.( M S S A 78.2fff) 07363 MUA
S. Central N. E. ( M S S A 78.2ggg) 07364 MUA
Dntwn S. E./ Florence N.(Mssa 78.2mmm) 07365 MUA
Pacoima East/ Sun Valley(Mssa 78.2ppp) 07366 MUA
Long Beach Port ( M S S A 78.2p) 07370 MUA
Boyle Higt C/ Cty Ter W( M S S A 78.2h) 07371 MUA
North Long Beach ( M S S A 78.2iii) 07372 MUA
Bell Gardens/ Commerce( M S S A 78.2c) 07375 MUA
Lake Los Angeles ( M S S A 77.2) 07376 MUA
South Central S. W. ( M S S A 78.2s) 07379 MUA
Pico Union (M S S A 78.2b) 07383 MUA
Compton East ( M S S A 78.2bbb) 07384 MUA
Inglewood East ( M S S A 78.2r) 07385 MUA
Juniper Hills/ Littlerock( M S S A 77.3) 07386 MUA
Rosemead/ San Gabriel( M S S A 78.2qqq) 07387 MUA
Lynwood S/ Paramount N W(Mssa 78.2ooo) 07388 MUA
Glassell P/Glendale S E( M S S A 78.2ff) 07390 MUA
Culver City East ( M S S A 78.2nnn) 07394 MUA
Gardena W./ Hawthorne( M S S A 78.2bbbb) 07395 MUA
Pomona E./ Pomona S. ( M S S A 78.2ss) 07425 MUA
Van Nuys Central ( M S S A 78.2cc) 07426 MUA
Gardena ( M S S A 78.2uuu) 07429 MUA
Panorama City ( M S S A 78.2ll) 07431 MUA
Low Inc- Hollywood S. Ce( M S S A 78.2g) 07532 MUP

You can search by counties, I just picked OC and LAC.....
 
I based my argument on the definition of underserved. According to American Heritage dictionary: Underserved - To supply with insufficient services, especially social and health services.

The practicality of that term conforms with what I have stated. Now go to an interview and tell them you want to serve in the "underserved Orange County."

If anything, private family practices in Orange are competing for patients. I can walk around any corner in Orange County and find a bunch of doctors offices. I don't consider that being "undeserved."
 
for california:

Medically Underserved Areas or Populations (MUAs/Ps) are based on the evaluation of criteria established through federal regulation to identify geographic areas or population groups based on demographic data.

Definition of Medically Underserved Areas or Populations (MUAs/Ps)
The federal MUP designation is used when an area does not meet the established MUA criteria. The process involves assembling the same data elements and carrying out the same first three steps as stated for MUAs. The fourth step determines whether an area qualifies as a MUA or MUP. For both MUA or MUP designation, an area with a total weighted value of 62 or less is considered eligible.

Criteria:
To qualify for designation the area or population is scored on the basis of four criteria:


for MUA designation requests,
  • Percentage of population at 100% below poverty;
  • Percentage of population over > 65;
  • Infant mortality rate; and
  • Primary care physicians per 1,000 population
OR

for MUP designation requests,
  • Percentage of population at 100% below poverty;
  • Percentage of population over > 65;
  • Infant mortality rate; and
  • Primary care physicians serving the low-income population (200% poverty level) per 1,000 low-income population
 
The level of ignorance here is ridiculous....
 
According to the national government, the following Southern California areas are designated as official Medically Underserved Areas (MUA) OR Medically Underserved Populations (MUP):

Medically Underserved Areas (MUA) may be a whole county or a group of contiguous counties, a group of county or civil divisions or a group of urban census tracts in which residents have a shortage of personal health services.

Medically Underserved Populations (MUPs) may include groups of persons who face economic, cultural or linguistic barriers to health care.


ORANGE COUNTY
Low Inc - Fullerton Service Area 00253 MUP
Low Inc - Brea West La Habre Service 00254 MUP
Central Santa Ana Service Area 00294 MUA
Low Inc & Mfw - Dana Point Service Area 00319 MUP
Low Inc/Hmls- Garden S/ San W(Mssa 116i) 07422 MUP

LOS ANGELES COUNTY
El Monte N. E.( M S S A 78.2oo) 00243 MUA
Low Inc - Palos Verdes Service Area 00244 MUP
Low Inc - South Gate Service Area 00245 MUP
Bell S. W./ Cudahy ( M S S A 78.2ddd) 00306 MUA
Exposition/ Leimert Park( M S S A 78.2l) 00335 MUA
Watts/ Willowbrook( M S S A 78.2aaa) 00337 MUA
Los Angeles Service Area 00340 MUA
Low Inc - West Covina Service Area 00362 MUP
El Sereno N./ Highland P( M S S A 78.2i) 00363 MUA
Pico Union/Westlake Service Area 00383 MUA
Chinatown/Dowtown/Echo Park South Service Area 04011 MUA
Long Beach/ West Central (Mssa78.2jjj) 07153 MUA
North Hollywood ( M S S A 78.2bb) 07330 MUA
South Central Northwest (Mssa 78.2k) 07353 MUA
Firestone/ Florence S.( M S S A 78.2fff) 07363 MUA
S. Central N. E. ( M S S A 78.2ggg) 07364 MUA
Dntwn S. E./ Florence N.(Mssa 78.2mmm) 07365 MUA
Pacoima East/ Sun Valley(Mssa 78.2ppp) 07366 MUA
Long Beach Port ( M S S A 78.2p) 07370 MUA
Boyle Higt C/ Cty Ter W( M S S A 78.2h) 07371 MUA
North Long Beach ( M S S A 78.2iii) 07372 MUA
Bell Gardens/ Commerce( M S S A 78.2c) 07375 MUA
Lake Los Angeles ( M S S A 77.2) 07376 MUA
South Central S. W. ( M S S A 78.2s) 07379 MUA
Pico Union (M S S A 78.2b) 07383 MUA
Compton East ( M S S A 78.2bbb) 07384 MUA
Inglewood East ( M S S A 78.2r) 07385 MUA
Juniper Hills/ Littlerock( M S S A 77.3) 07386 MUA
Rosemead/ San Gabriel( M S S A 78.2qqq) 07387 MUA
Lynwood S/ Paramount N W(Mssa 78.2ooo) 07388 MUA
Glassell P/Glendale S E( M S S A 78.2ff) 07390 MUA
Culver City East ( M S S A 78.2nnn) 07394 MUA
Gardena W./ Hawthorne( M S S A 78.2bbbb) 07395 MUA
Pomona E./ Pomona S. ( M S S A 78.2ss) 07425 MUA
Van Nuys Central ( M S S A 78.2cc) 07426 MUA
Gardena ( M S S A 78.2uuu) 07429 MUA
Panorama City ( M S S A 78.2ll) 07431 MUA
Low Inc- Hollywood S. Ce( M S S A 78.2g) 07532 MUP

You can search by counties, I just picked OC and LAC.....

don't you people have anything better to do!
 
That took me like 20 seconds b/c I'm familiar with the site (I work in an urban MUA) and now you know something you didn't know before. Personally, that's worth it - and anyone else who reads this thread will also now know what the terms MUA and MUP refer to, that such places do exist even in areas that are stereotypically "very rich" and overloaded with physicians on "any corner."

EDIT: Lost what? There's no winning or losing in this situation - just sharing of knowledge :)
 
It was no longer "knowledge sharing" when you start throwing terms like "ignorance" around.

I win.
 
Sheesh, Gypsy, you sure are sensitive! I didn't call you ignorant, I said that there was a ridiculous level of ignorance on the thread, and what I was referring to was general knowledge of underserved areas/MUA/MUPs

See the definition below:

ignorance (n.)
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed

I was simply pointing out that there was some misinformation on the thread - sorry if I offended you or anyone else.

As far as the "I win," go ahead. I can't help but have the amusing image of my nephew dancing & singing "I'm a winner! I'm a winner!" :) S'all good.
 
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