UIUC c/o 2019 vs. PennVet c/o 2020

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PennObie20

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So of course I've been putting this decision off til the last minute, but now I really need to choose and I need your help. I've been admitted to Illinois for this year, and Penn for next year. I've looked at the "factors for choosing a school" thread, but there's very little in the negatives for Illinois and I was hoping to get some advice based on what was relevant for me. Here's what I'm currently thinking (I'm leaving out pros and cons if they're the same for each school, like lectures being recorded-whoo!):
Penn Pros: Much closer to home (I'm from upstate NY), really cool cases at the SA hospital, a longer history and 'better' name, located in Philadelphia,
Penn Cons: LA hospital is an hour away, I've never lived in a city before, doesn't seem like there's a lot of opportunities to learn/deal with wildlife/exotics, I'd have to wait a year (Big factor!), more expensive, not working with real animals until the third year
Illinois Pros: Everything is in one place (LA/SA), more wildlife opportunities, cheaper cost of living, clinical experience from the first year, seems like a more balanced curriculum in terms of learning about LA/SA/wildlife/etc.
Illinois Cons: Tornadoes (esp. with a cat if I'm not home during a warning), living in the midwest/far from home
And since I tend to stress out about things (and they'll be plenty to stress out about already), which should I be more worried about, crime in Philadelphia or the threat of tornadoes in Illinois (it doesn't even have to be a real tornado, just the possibility of one during bad weather!)?
Thanks for any advice!!

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Name and prestige doesn't matter. What matters coming out of school is the quality of your education. And both of these schools will give you a high quality education. I've lived in the Midwest all my life (in both Indiana and Illinois), tornadoes aren't as much of an issue as they are out in the Plains states. There are plenty of warnings over the radios, shelters in place. If you're worried about your cat I'd suggest watching the weather during the stormy months and if there's a big one coming, shut her/him into a room where she's comfortable and safe, in case you won't be home, or see if there's an option to bring her to the school with you for the day.

How do you learn? Are you a better hands on learner? If so, Illi sounds like a better fit. How much of a family person are you, and could you be comfortable with seeing your family a couple times a year versus more? (Realize too that as a vet student, you might not have as much family time as you want even if you were close to home.) What do you want to focus on? LA? Exotics? And the biggest concern to me is the cost differential.
 
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Are you aware of Illinois's curriculum and examination scheduling/structuring? That alone would be enough to make me happy to wait a year to go to Penn.
 
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My immediate response would be Illinois...because of the lower COA and the fact that you would be starting this year as opposed to next. On the other hand, if you can move to PA and become a PA resident, then Penn would be $10k less per year than it is right now. But that would depend on you having the means to move and being able to get a job and all that.

The longer history/better name doesn't really mean much. Likewise, the chances of you being seriously affected by crime in Philly or tornadoes in Illinois...probably not high enough to really be a consideration. Granted I haven't lived in either place, but my grandma has lived in Philly for...40 years or so, right near Penn's campus. I think sometimes the perception people have of the area is a little skewed.

Nobody can make this decision for you because everybody's priorities are different. My priority was always cost and starting vet school as soon as I could, so in your situation I would be going to Illinois. But being closer to your family might be more important to you than either of those things. Good luck with your decision!
 
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Are you aware of Illinois's curriculum and examination scheduling/structuring? That alone would be enough to make me happy to wait a year to go to Penn.
I would assume she has since it's in the pro/con list for Illinois and she didn't list it as a con. Some people like that kind of thing. I believe that's actually closer to how they do it in the UK, too.
 
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Name and prestige doesn't matter. What matters coming out of school is the quality of your education. And both of these schools will give you a high quality education. I've lived in the Midwest all my life (in both Indiana and Illinois), tornadoes aren't as much of an issue as they are out in the Plains states. There are plenty of warnings over the radios, shelters in place. If you're worried about your cat I'd suggest watching the weather during the stormy months and if there's a big one coming, shut her/him into a room where she's comfortable and safe, in case you won't be home, or see if there's an option to bring her to the school with you for the day.

How do you learn? Are you a better hands on learner? If so, Illi sounds like a better fit. How much of a family person are you, and could you be comfortable with seeing your family a couple times a year versus more? (Realize too that as a vet student, you might not have as much family time as you want even if you were close to home.) What do you want to focus on? LA? Exotics? And the biggest concern to me is the cost differential.
As of now I'm mostly a SA person, but I don't have a whole lot of experience with wildlife and I'd like to change that- especially since I'd love to be involved in international medicine and wildlife seems like a good way to go for that. I went to undergrad in Ohio, so I'm pretty used to be far from my family (except for summers, which will definitely be different). And I feel like I'm a more hands-on learner, but I also really want to have a solid base of theoretical knowledge. I feel like all vet schools give you the theory though, where not all give you the hands-on stuff.
From what I've heard from people at UIUC, most apartment buildings don't have a basement or shelter nearby (though the school itself is a shelter). Bringing my cat with me to school on those days would be ideal, if it's possible.
 
Are you aware of Illinois's curriculum and examination scheduling/structuring? That alone would be enough to make me happy to wait a year to go to Penn.
I know it's a quarter system with only one midterm/final for the core classes per quarter. I saw it listed as a pro on the "factors" list, so I'm assuming most people are happy with that?
 
I would assume she has since it's in the pro/con list for Illinois and she didn't list it as a con. Some people like that kind of thing. I believe that's actually closer to how they do it in the UK, too.
I loved UIUC's curriculum. I didn't live the OOS cost >.<
 
I loved UIUC's curriculum. I didn't live the OOS cost >.<
I can definitely see the draw in only having two exams to worry about as opposed to...however many I'll have to take with my 8 classes per semester. Plus being able to use the classes you're really great at to offset the ones you're not so great at? I'm sure some people really appreciate that.
 
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My immediate response would be Illinois...because of the lower COA and the fact that you would be starting this year as opposed to next. On the other hand, if you can move to PA and become a PA resident, then Penn would be $10k less per year than it is right now. But that would depend on you having the means to move and being able to get a job and all that.

The longer history/better name doesn't really mean much. Likewise, the chances of you being seriously affected by crime in Philly or tornadoes in Illinois...probably not high enough to really be a consideration. Granted I haven't lived in either place, but my grandma has lived in Philly for...40 years or so, right near Penn's campus. I think sometimes the perception people have of the area is a little skewed.

Nobody can make this decision for you because everybody's priorities are different. My priority was always cost and starting vet school as soon as I could, so in your situation I would be going to Illinois. But being closer to your family might be more important to you than either of those things. Good luck with your decision!
My immediate response was Illinois too, for the same reasons you listed.....However, I don't want to be looking back when I'm 50 thinking I made the wrong choice because I couldn't wait one more year in my twenties! I saw something in an old thread about deferring acceptance for a year (which would actually work out perfectly since I'm not accepted til next year anyway) and moving to PA would get you residency status, but that was 6 years ago and I feel like they may have changed their policy?
 
From what I've heard from people at UIUC, most apartment buildings don't have a basement or shelter nearby (though the school itself is a shelter). Bringing my cat with me to school on those days would be ideal, if it's possible.

Yes, most apartment buildings don't have a basement. The school does not allow pets in the classrooms. I really would not make a decision based on tornado possibility. This is my second year and we have had one tornado watch each year. I have lived in the Midwest all my life and it really is not something to constantly worry about. The storm last night, they had been predicting severe weather for almost a week.

I know it's a quarter system with only one midterm/final for the core classes per quarter. I saw it listed as a pro on the "factors" list, so I'm assuming most people are happy with that?

I have a love and hate view of the curriculum. It can be very hard to have everything on one test and that is your grade. Typically 80% of your grade comes from 4 days of testing for the quarter. Also no pluses and minuses in grades can be hard if you are at the top of the cutoff.
 
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My immediate response was Illinois too, for the same reasons you listed.....However, I don't want to be looking back when I'm 50 thinking I made the wrong choice because I couldn't wait one more year in my twenties! I saw something in an old thread about deferring acceptance for a year (which would actually work out perfectly since I'm not accepted til next year anyway) and moving to PA would get you residency status, but that was 6 years ago and I feel like they may have changed their policy?
@brightimpressio Just did this, so I don't think the policy has changed. Plus, since you won't actually be deferring, it would make even more sense for you to be able to do it. I would check with the school to make sure though.

ETA: I doubt that much about your school experience will matter to you anymore when you're 50, by the way. Those loans, and the effects of having them and how long it may take you to pay them off, very well might though.
 
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People still deferred acceptances as of last year to gain IS tuition at Penn, so as far as I know you can still do it.

And we definitely have hands on experience beginning year one. As much as other schools, probably not, but they are actively working on improving this aspect (I can get more in depth with examples if you want). Plus, we have a super active Shelter Med club that you can get involved in and get a lot of hands out experience that way. You can also shadow in Exotics if you want. They've been super busy lately and see some pretty cool things.

As for the crime aspect, it's not targeted at students and we have a ton of officers that are around West Philly. There are bus and shuttles services to drop you off at night if you need to, or an officer will literally walk you to your house from wherever you are. In the past 3 years, I have only had one experience where I felt uncomfortable and it was in daylight. However, I've also pretty much lived in/outside a city since 2007, so I'm kind of just used to it.

I don't know if we've PMed before, but feel free to hit me up if you want answers to some more specific questions.
 
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My immediate response was Illinois too, for the same reasons you listed.....However, I don't want to be looking back when I'm 50 thinking I made the wrong choice because I couldn't wait one more year in my twenties! I saw something in an old thread about deferring acceptance for a year (which would actually work out perfectly since I'm not accepted til next year anyway) and moving to PA would get you residency status, but that was 6 years ago and I feel like they may have changed their policy?
I wound up deferring from Penn for a year to become a resident and save some money. If you have any questions about that process feel free to message me! :)
 
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Yes, most apartment buildings don't have a basement. The school does not allow pets in the classrooms. I really would not make a decision based on tornado possibility. This is my second year and we have had one tornado watch each year. I have lived in the Midwest all my life and it really is not something to constantly worry about. The storm last night, they had been predicting severe weather for almost a week.



I have a love and hate view of the curriculum. It can be very hard to have everything on one test and that is your grade. Typically 80% of your grade comes from 4 days of testing for the quarter. Also no pluses and minuses in grades can be hard if you are at the top of the cutoff.
I had a similar curriculum when I was studying abroad and I didn't love it...However they didn't combine the classes abroad and I can definitely see how that could help even out the grade. How long are the tests when they combine all the classes? And then you do have separate tests for non-core classes, right? Do you find that out of the mountains of info you had to know, they ended up not being able to ask on a lot of it because there wasn't enough time during the tests? Also, what is the cut-off at Illinois? Thanks!
 
People still deferred acceptances as of last year to gain IS tuition at Penn, so as far as I know you can still do it.

And we definitely have hands on experience beginning year one. As much as other schools, probably not, but they are actively working on improving this aspect (I can get more in depth with examples if you want). Plus, we have a super active Shelter Med club that you can get involved in and get a lot of hands out experience that way. You can also shadow in Exotics if you want. They've been super busy lately and see some pretty cool things.

As for the crime aspect, it's not targeted at students and we have a ton of officers that are around West Philly. There are bus and shuttles services to drop you off at night if you need to, or an officer will literally walk you to your house from wherever you are. In the past 3 years, I have only had one experience where I felt uncomfortable and it was in daylight. However, I've also pretty much lived in/outside a city since 2007, so I'm kind of just used to it.

I don't know if we've PMed before, but feel free to hit me up if you want answers to some more specific questions.
I just talked to the admissions office and got all the details about obtaining PA residency, so that's good news. However, I'm just concerned that I won't have time to get the hands-on experience if it's not already structured into the curriculum, i.e. if I have to shadow/join a lot of clubs to get the same experience.
Are there opportunities to work with wildlife, or do you have to go out of the city to do so (I know there's the tri-state raptor program)? Also, is it difficult to get to the Bolton center to do your LA work? Or if you're not specifically interested in LA, do you have/get to go out there at all?
 
I wound up deferring from Penn for a year to become a resident and save some money. If you have any questions about that process feel free to message me! :)
I just talked to admissions and got the information, which was very helpful. What did you do in the year you deferred?
 
I just talked to the admissions office and got all the details about obtaining PA residency, so that's good news. However, I'm just concerned that I won't have time to get the hands-on experience if it's not already structured into the curriculum, i.e. if I have to shadow/join a lot of clubs to get the same experience.
Are there opportunities to work with wildlife, or do you have to go out of the city to do so (I know there's the tri-state raptor program)? Also, is it difficult to get to the Bolton center to do your LA work? Or if you're not specifically interested in LA, do you have/get to go out there at all?

There is definitely time to fit it in, it just comes down to what you value more --studying/getting mostly A's vs the hands on experience. I'm a hands on experience person, so I was frequently at the shelter weekends before exams. Not as much first semester cause I was figuring things out, but I made it a priority later on. Don't regret it yet. ICVM has you start learning to do PEs and stuff on cats, dogs and you go out to NBC to do horses and cows in the second semester. Second year, the continuation of that class has required shifts at both hospitals that gets you experience with TPRs, BP, Minimum databases, etc. Then the clubs offer even more opportunities. And both Small and Large animal block offer some good hands on opportunities as well that are built into the curriculum.

Most wildlife experiences I know of are out of the city, but like I said, our exotics department has been pretty busy if you want to get some avian/small mammal/herp experience within the city. Occasionally they'll get some animals from the zoo or aquarium in. We do alternating hosting the Special Species Symposium with Cornell, which often provides some neat opportunities. Next year, Penn will be hosting it. Last year we had raptor handling, a ferret adrenalectomy lab, various ES techniques (IO catheters, bandaging etc) and various necropsy wet labs.

As for getting out to NBC, you can do it, it just depends on how much you want it. I'm personally not interested, so I didn't really put in the extra effort to get out there. The only thing that makes it particularly difficult is the traffic. That being said, I did take Neonatology which had required foal sitting shifts and never had major issues going out. Most people end up carpooling to get out there.
 
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I know it's a quarter system with only one midterm/final for the core classes per quarter. I saw it listed as a pro on the "factors" list, so I'm assuming most people are happy with that?

Sounds very similar to the UK method of exams. We received a "midterm" (sometimes this was just a paper) that was worth a varying 10-20% of your grade, then you have one large exam at the end worth 80-90% of the grade. The exam was mostly short answer questions with a bit of multiple choice and some "interpretation" questions, some exams also had an oral component. You definitely aren't as "busy" throughout the year because that threat of exams isn't constantly looming, so it is easy to procrastinate and put things off, but then about 3 weeks before those finals things get stressful. And all courses were combined into bigger "groups" so that multiple subjects were tested at once.. such as anesthesia, pharmacology, surgery, etc in one exam.

Compare that with schools that have multiple exams. You are more "busy" constantly as there are exams just about every week but it isn't too bad. You also get to split up your grade more so if you have just a crap week one week, your entire grade for the course isn't destroyed.

Also, the subjects are separated so you get an exam for pharmacology and one exam for say renal diseases in small animal instead of all of the subjects being together. That can be seen as good and bad. Good because you can focus on one thing when you are studying for a specific exam. However, if you are just horrible at renal diseases then you probably won't do as well for that exam, but there are other exams in the course to balance that out, whereas at the other school that renal part might only be one question on the whole exam so it won't have a massive impact on the overall grade.

Really, having had a bit of both systems, it just depends on how you learn and what works for you. They both have "good" and "bad" aspects. I am a severe procrastinator so having exams constantly forces me to keep working, which is a good thing.
 
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My immediate response was Illinois too, for the same reasons you listed.....However, I don't want to be looking back when I'm 50 thinking I made the wrong choice because I couldn't wait one more year in my twenties! I saw something in an old thread about deferring acceptance for a year (which would actually work out perfectly since I'm not accepted til next year anyway) and moving to PA would get you residency status, but that was 6 years ago and I feel like they may have changed their policy?
for what its worth, i really seriously doubt you're going to look back on your life and wish you'd gone to school elsewhere for any other reason than cost. even then i really doubt it. both schools are going to have pros and cons, just decide which fits you better and live with no regrets :)
 
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Are you aware of Illinois's curriculum and examination scheduling/structuring? That alone would be enough to make me happy to wait a year to go to Penn.

Are you fully aware of it? Because compared to other schools I think we actually take the cake for exam scheduling. but I guess it depends what your cup of tea is.

Tornadoes really are not that big of a factor. Its called a natural disaster for a reason because when it happens, its rare, spontaneous, and unpredictable, but I would say you have more of a chance of getting in a deadly car accident than seeing a tornado. I have been living in Illinois for over 15 years now, and haven't even seen a funnel cloud.

Really it boils down to you having to really think about where you will be most happy. Is the name of the school a source of pride for you, or do you want to start school now? Is cost of attendance an issue? And are you really wildlife focused? These are issues you have to think about and decide for yourself as the decision is one you have to live with.
 
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Are you fully aware of it? Because compared to other schools I think we actually take the cake for exam scheduling. but I guess it depends what your cup of tea is.

Tornadoes really are not that big of a factor. Its called a natural disaster for a reason because when it happens, its rare, spontaneous, and unpredictable, but I would say you have more of a chance of getting in a deadly car accident than seeing a tornado. I have been living in Illinois for over 15 years now, and haven't even seen a funnel cloud.

Really it boils down to you having to really think about where you will be most happy. Is the name of the school a source of pride for you, or do you want to start school now? Is cost of attendance an issue? And are you really wildlife focused? These are issues you have to think about and decide for yourself as the decision is one you have to live with.
What do you like about the exam scheduling? And could you tell me what style the tests are given in (short answer, essay, multiple choice, etc.)? Thanks!
 
There is definitely time to fit it in, it just comes down to what you value more --studying/getting mostly A's vs the hands on experience. I'm a hands on experience person, so I was frequently at the shelter weekends before exams. Not as much first semester cause I was figuring things out, but I made it a priority later on. Don't regret it yet. ICVM has you start learning to do PEs and stuff on cats, dogs and you go out to NBC to do horses and cows in the second semester. Second year, the continuation of that class has required shifts at both hospitals that gets you experience with TPRs, BP, Minimum databases, etc. Then the clubs offer even more opportunities. And both Small and Large animal block offer some good hands on opportunities as well that are built into the curriculum.

Most wildlife experiences I know of are out of the city, but like I said, our exotics department has been pretty busy if you want to get some avian/small mammal/herp experience within the city. Occasionally they'll get some animals from the zoo or aquarium in. We do alternating hosting the Special Species Symposium with Cornell, which often provides some neat opportunities. Next year, Penn will be hosting it. Last year we had raptor handling, a ferret adrenalectomy lab, various ES techniques (IO catheters, bandaging etc) and various necropsy wet labs.

As for getting out to NBC, you can do it, it just depends on how much you want it. I'm personally not interested, so I didn't really put in the extra effort to get out there. The only thing that makes it particularly difficult is the traffic. That being said, I did take Neonatology which had required foal sitting shifts and never had major issues going out. Most people end up carpooling to get out there.
I did forget about the ICVM so I feel a little better about that. Also, when are the electives fit in during the first and second year, because on the website it gives electives a slot in the class schedule only in the third year? And can you tell me a bit on the style the tests are given in (short answer, essay, multiple choice, etc.)? Thanks!
 
I did forget about the ICVM so I feel a little better about that. Also, when are the electives fit in during the first and second year, because on the website it gives electives a slot in the class schedule only in the third year? And can you tell me a bit on the style the tests are given in (short answer, essay, multiple choice, etc.)? Thanks!

Will report back in the AM/afternoon when I'm not drunk.
 
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I just talked to admissions and got the information, which was very helpful. What did you do in the year you deferred?
I wound up working in a research lab for the year since I was interested in the VMD PhD :). I just emailed some labs asking if they had open positions for a tech!
 
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I did forget about the ICVM so I feel a little better about that. Also, when are the electives fit in during the first and second year, because on the website it gives electives a slot in the class schedule only in the third year? And can you tell me a bit on the style the tests are given in (short answer, essay, multiple choice, etc.)? Thanks!

So the only electives first year are Wildlife 1 and 2 (the second one tends to have a cap due to lab space) and Global Health. Global Health you can take again second year since they switch what course they offer every year. There is also Human Animal Bond which is an independent study course where you do a project and have to put in 16 credit hours of work to get 2 credits (towards your GPA). You can get extra credits if you get more hours and your project can be related to anything exploring the human animal bond. Second year, you can take Global Health again as well as Human Animal bond (you can take this every semester after your first semester here) as well as a swine neonatology and equine neonatology class in the spring. Third year is when the bulk of the electives are. There are quite a few in the fall and then in the spring, there are a ton based on what block (if any) that you do.

Test taking is kind of varied and they've been switching it up in classes. Some are short answer/essay (General Path, Micro, Parasit, anesthesia? (it was MC for us but might be back to essay), etc) but there are a bunch of classes with MC tests. Most classes have a test every two weeks or so, but there are a few where it's just a midterm and final, or just a final. (ETA. we don't use +/-'s in our grades and rounding up is hit or miss)
 
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We have 2 quarters (8 weeks) within each semester. We have midterms over 2 days after 4 weeks and then 2 days of finals 4 weeks after that. During first year, day 1 is all subjects combined. 40 questions of neuro and physiology, 40 questions of histology and imaging, 40 question anatomy practical. Day 2 is all subjects with integrated questions. I think with such few questions it can be hard to really assess each subject. Second year has had more questions per subject and longer tests. Cutoffs are 60, 70, 80, 90. So 89.5 would get the same GPA as 80.1. Class rank becomes more important.
 
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So the only electives first year are Wildlife 1 and 2 (the second one tends to have a cap due to lab space) and Global Health. Global Health you can take again second year since they switch what course they offer every year. There is also Human Animal Bond which is an independent study course where you do a project and have to put in 16 credit hours of work to get 2 credits (towards your GPA). You can get extra credits if you get more hours and your project can be related to anything exploring the human animal bond. Second year, you can take Global Health again as well as Human Animal bond (you can take this every semester after your first semester here) as well as a swine neonatology and equine neonatology class in the spring. Third year is when the bulk of the electives are. There are quite a few in the fall and then in the spring, there are a ton based on what block (if any) that you do.

Test taking is kind of varied and they've been switching it up in classes. Some are short answer/essay (General Path, Micro, Parasit, anesthesia? (it was MC for us but might be back to essay), etc) but there are a bunch of classes with MC tests. Most classes have a test every two weeks or so, but there are a few where it's just a midterm and final, or just a final.
Thanks for the info! Is the wildlife elective part of the regularly scheduled classes during the day? Also, is there a wildlife club? And are there models to practice, i.e. venipuncture or palpation, on before using live animals?
 
Thanks for the info! Is the wildlife elective part of the regularly scheduled classes during the day? Also, is there a wildlife club? And are there models to practice, i.e. venipuncture or palpation, on before using live animals?

Wildlife runs a little later into the day. It's immediately after the rest of class, so you might finish at 5 or 7 instead of the usual 3 or 5 PM (it might be only an hour long class..i don't remember). We have a Special Species club that kind of includes everything. As for models to practice on, there were...not so much for palpation, but venipuncture yes (altouhgh I found the models to feel pretty different compared to an actual animal).
 
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Thanks for the info! Is the wildlife elective part of the regularly scheduled classes during the day? Also, is there a wildlife club? And are there models to practice, i.e. venipuncture or palpation, on before using live animals?
I didn't take the wildlife elective this semester, but they've had a couple of labs using dead wildlife (including a bear!! #jealous) to practice necropsies, palpation, bandaging, etc as well as a turtle shell repair lab. The first semester of wildlife we had the opportunity to practice restraint and palpations on live pigeons which was cool! And you can get all sorts of experience with birds at TriState.
 
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