Unhealthy Work Environment

[Adogloveralways]

sounds like somebody is trying to avoid charges.

Ya OP maybe he somehow knew you might be recording him..

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[lhmhtd]

OP - did he incriminate himself in the recording, for ex., did he say "I'm sorry I shoved you"? If he did, you certainly have grounds for an assault charge. Up to you to pursue it or not... I'd talk to a lawyer if I were you.

No he was very careful about what he said. Wasn't specific other than, "sorry for my behavior" and "while what I did wasn't illegal, it was rude." Etc.

 

[DVMDream]

No he was very careful about what he said. Wasn't specific other than, "sorry for my behavior" and "while what I did wasn't illegal, it was rude." Etc.

Probably why he wanted to talk in person. So you have no written word from him stating that he did something wrong.

 

[lhmhtd]

Probably why he wanted to talk in person. So you have no written word from him stating that he did something wrong.

Yeah probably so. Hoping none of this crap follows me and im able to just move forward peacefully. It's been a rough few days- lots of emotions and thoughts. I'm so thankful that all of you guys were so helpful and made me feel so much better about leaving. To you guys, it may be just a couple simple posts, but for me it was the encouragement and words of wisdom that I desperately needed.

 

[that redhead]

I don't want him to get totally screwed over,

I wouldn't look at it as "getting screwed over" but rather "realizing the consequences of his [very illegal not to mention awful all around] actions". I'm glad you got out.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Yeah probably so. Hoping none of this crap follows me and im able to just move forward peacefully. It's been a rough few days- lots of emotions and thoughts. I'm so thankful that all of you guys were so helpful and made me feel so much better about leaving. To you guys, it may be just a couple simple posts, but for me it was the encouragement and words of wisdom that I desperately needed.

The silver lining of being through a toxic environment is that it really gives you a better perspective on yourself. Making the choice to leave is a hard one - especially because the type of people who tend to go into vet med look at leaving something as "failing" or "giving up" in some way. I definitely felt that way when I switched labs. I had never "quit" *anything* in my life, and even though this wasn't exactly "quitting" it sure as hell felt like it. That combined with a strange sort of guilt is what kept me in that lab for two years when I should have quit after the first year, no questions asked.

But in a way, it actually HELPS your self-esteem, because you realize that you DO have power over your own environment and your own happiness, and that people in positions of power aren't these god who dictate your life - they are people, and are fallible, and you don't have to put up with them.

 

[chickenlittle]

Unfortunately, toxic work environments are incredibly common in the veterinary field. I've worked in several, both as a pre-vet and as a veterinarian. I think a lot of it comes down to the stresses of the profession.... some of the most toxic bosses I've had were apparently great, caring individuals earlier in their career before they burnt out and lost their minds. It's a high-stress profession and, unfortunately, some veterinarians take that stress out on others.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifesty...mit-suicide/iCCgr46bIJpgEeesPHTe2L/story.html

 

[Skimble]

I wish I could have read all of this a little over a year ago when a POS tech I worked with shoved me hard in front of several other people during my last week of employment. She is so manipulative, a bully and lazy. Part of me wishes I had called the cops on her instead of calling the manager, who didn't do anything about it at all, didn't even talk to the woman about it since I would be leaving in a few days, she felt it would just resolve itself.

 

[lhmhtd]

The silver lining of being through a toxic environment is that it really gives you a better perspective on yourself. Making the choice to leave is a hard one - especially because the type of people who tend to go into vet med look at leaving something as "failing" or "giving up" in some way. I definitely felt that way when I switched labs. I had never "quit" *anything* in my life, and even though this wasn't exactly "quitting" it sure as hell felt like it. That combined with a strange sort of guilt is what kept me in that lab for two years when I should have quit after the first year, no questions asked.

But in a way, it actually HELPS your self-esteem, because you realize that you DO have power over your own environment and your own happiness, and that people in positions of power aren't these god who dictate your life - they are people, and are fallible, and you don't have to put up with them.

You're so wise. I hope one day I'm half the pathologist you are.

And you're right, the guilt and the feeling of quitting or giving up is real and it clouds your judgement. In this field we tend to be very empathetic and try to see the best in people so put up with crap for so long. It's unbelievably gratifying and freeing to put yourself first for once. I once read that one of the best things you can do for yourself is learn how to say no. No to doing stuff you don't want to, no to being bullied, no to a situation that brings about fear or anxiety. I hope on day I can share this wisdom with someone who may be in a similar situation as apparently many of us have been in.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

You're so wise. I hope one day I'm half the pathologist you are.

And you're right, the guilt and the feeling of quitting or giving up is real and it clouds your judgement. In this field we tend to be very empathetic and try to see the best in people so put up with crap for so long. It's unbelievably gratifying and freeing to put yourself first for once. I once read that one of the best things you can do for yourself is learn how to say no. No to doing stuff you don't want to, no to being bullied, no to a situation that brings about fear or anxiety. I hope on day I can share this wisdom with someone who may be in a similar situation as apparently many of us have been in.

Wise you may think, but I don't always follow my own advice as much as I would like again, we're all fallible. I'm still really bad about saying "No" but I'm getting better. Especially with students....I want to be the "cool" and "awesome" mentor so much that sometimes I don't come down hard when someone needs a kick in the butt. A prof colleague of mine told me recently " If ALL of your students love you, it means you aren't a good teacher; you're kissing up. The majority? Sure. But not all"

It initially didn't make sense to me, but eventually I got it. You can't please everybody and obsess about everyone liking you to the point that you 1) overextend yourself, 2) put up with bull**** you shouldn't, and 3) compromise your own leadership abilities.

 

[lhmhtd]

This whole situation worries me- because this vet clinic is literally across the street from UGA's vet school, I worry that something could be said and get around and affect my chances at getting into vet school or a residency down the line. The vet is keeping this other female tech who bullied me. They all have expressed their utter shock that I wouldn't even give the courtesy of a two weeks notice. Who the heck knows what else could be getting said and making it's way to the wrong people. I want to protect myself and my future. Short of talking with a lawyer, I'm unsure of how to proceed.

 

[Skimble]

This whole situation worries me- because this vet clinic is literally across the street from UGA's vet school, I worry that something could be said and get around and affect my chances at getting into vet school or a residency down the line. The vet is keeping this other female tech who bullied me. They all have expressed their utter shock that I wouldn't even give the courtesy of a two weeks notice. Who the heck knows what else could be getting said and making it's way to the wrong people. I want to protect myself and my future. Short of talking with a lawyer, I'm unsure of how to proceed.

Save that email that the vet sent after you told them you were leaving. I think it shows that he is at least admitting to some wrong doing if I read that correctly. Hopefully as a professional he knows that talking $%*@ on you will really only make him look bad. If you are asked about it in an interview/profession environment, take the high road and say something like "there were aspects of the work environment I was uncomfortable with and was unfortunately unable to reconcile those issues with management."

 

[Pugsforlove2014]

Your attitude about all of this by the way has been so so so so patient about this entire situation and shows a lot of self determination and character. I hope you go far in this field and continue standing up for yourself!

 

[wildlifer]

Save that email that the vet sent after you told them you were leaving. I think it shows that he is at least admitting to some wrong doing if I read that correctly. Hopefully as a professional he knows that talking $%*@ on you will really only make him look bad. If you are asked about it in an interview/profession environment, take the high road and say something like "there were aspects of the work environment I was uncomfortable with and was unfortunately unable to reconcile those issues with management."

Agreed, if he says anything negative about you, I think that would do more harm to him than you.

Your attitude about all of this by the way has been so so so so patient about this entire situation and shows a lot of self determination and character. I hope you go far in this field and continue standing up for yourself!

Couldn't have said it better myself. From the way you've spoken about this situation, I think you've handled it very well. Keep your chin up and remember that when one door closes, another one opens

 

[lhmhtd]

Y'all gonna make me cry. Seriously though, all the support has been extremely helpful. Ive had my fair share of meltdowns this past week but I'm moving on, knowing that clearly was not a good fit and am hopeful I'll find something else when the time is right!

 

[lhmhtd]

Just when I thought this nightmare was over.....
I found out that this vet has been slandering me to potential employers, saying blatantly false things. I have this clinic and this veterinarian listed as an experience on my VMCAS. I did not use him as a reference, however I checked the box saying it was ok to contact this person. I'm worried if any admissions committee members do choose to contact him, he'd tell them what he's been telling other clinics in town. Does anyone know if adcoms typically contact previous experiences? This is my future on the line. Aside from the fact that he's verbally and physically assaulted me, he is now slandering me and tarnishing my name. It is clearly illegal but obviously he doesn't care.
Yay for more unneceesary stress!

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Just when I thought this nightmare was over.....
I found out that this vet has been slandering me to potential employers, saying blatantly false things. I have this clinic and this veterinarian listed as an experience on my VMCAS. I did not use him as a reference, however I checked the box saying it was ok to contact this person. I'm worried if any admissions committee members do choose to contact him, he'd tell them what he's been telling other clinics in town. Does anyone know if adcoms typically contact previous experiences? This is my future on the line. Aside from the fact that he's verbally and physically assaulted me, he is now slandering me and tarnishing my name. It is clearly illegal but obviously he doesn't care.
Yay for more unneceesary stress!

Make sure you documented everything. Get whoever told you he was slandering you to put it in writing. (or if they have a voicemail)

I don't know what the rules would be about having a lawyer or someone call as a potential employer to get it on tape, but it would at least be something to ask.

Don't approach him or contact him yourself. But yes, seek legal counsel. This all sucks. And if he really is instigating trouble after you have gone, with no provocation, something should be done.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Just when I thought this nightmare was over.....
I found out that this vet has been slandering me to potential employers, saying blatantly false things. I have this clinic and this veterinarian listed as an experience on my VMCAS. I did not use him as a reference, however I checked the box saying it was ok to contact this person. I'm worried if any admissions committee members do choose to contact him, he'd tell them what he's been telling other clinics in town. Does anyone know if adcoms typically contact previous experiences? This is my future on the line. Aside from the fact that he's verbally and physically assaulted me, he is now slandering me and tarnishing my name. It is clearly illegal but obviously he doesn't care.
Yay for more unneceesary stress!

Sounds like my ex-PI to a T. He **** talked both me and the hubs after we left his lab one after the other - right after smiling in our faces and telling us if we ever needed letters of recommendation to of course, just ask him (yeah RIGHT). What a douchecanoe.

I highly, highly doubt adcoms do this - it would take WAAAAAY too much time - time they don't have. I've never heard of them calling previous employers. Think how many they would have to contact - it just isn't feasible.

The nasty part of me would want to hit him right back (figuratively) with an assault charge. It sucks when you take the high road and the other person refuses to.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Just when I thought this nightmare was over.....
I found out that this vet has been slandering me to potential employers, saying blatantly false things. I have this clinic and this veterinarian listed as an experience on my VMCAS. I did not use him as a reference, however I checked the box saying it was ok to contact this person. I'm worried if any admissions committee members do choose to contact him, he'd tell them what he's been telling other clinics in town. Does anyone know if adcoms typically contact previous experiences? This is my future on the line. Aside from the fact that he's verbally and physically assaulted me, he is now slandering me and tarnishing my name. It is clearly illegal but obviously he doesn't care.
Yay for more unneceesary stress!

I can tell you that I've been told a school doesn't typically contact an experience unless your hours, description, etc. seem fishy. That's coming from the admissions office at Michigan State. I imagine it's similar for other schools, as no adcom has time to verify all experiences of all 1000 applicants if they sound reasonable on paper. Also, just as another bit of comfort-If he ever were to get the gonads to start calling up schools, that generally speaks ill of him, not you. It sounds like he's just trash talking, not even calmly 'warning' local clinics. There was a thread a while back about someone in a similar situation worried about schools getting calls from bad boss. If you have good letters of rec, look good on paper, etc., I'm willing to bet you'll get the benefit of the doubt. That, and vet med is small (as you know) and if this guy has a reputation for being like this, it's not like the schools wouldn't have heard as well somehow...especially if you're applying to his alma mater.

I do think it's worth talking to a lawyer though. If anything, some sort of 'Cease and Decist' letter can be drafted up. He may just need the you-know-what scared out of him when he sees you're not afraid to take the legal step given what he did to you prior to this.

Sorry you're dealing with this. How did you find out he was tearing your name apart? Just curious.

 

[hygebeorht]

I am sorry you're going through this. I used to be at a great clinic with one bad apple nurse who bullied me. She never put her hands on me, though (which absolutely IS assault and absolutely IS illegal).

Document, document, document. Keep every email, every recorded conversation. Seek legal counsel. As a student (you're a student, right?) you should have access to legal services through your university. Contact them.

I second pinkpuppy9 - vet med is small and local vets are known. If he is abusive toward others and generally a horrible person, it's probably not a secret. And if any vets value his word over your record, then you really don't want to work for them.

But yes. Document everything, and get legal counsel.

 

[sheltermed]

I'm so appalled by this, I just can't believe it. I'm so sorry that this is happening. While I doubt he's going to reach out to vet schools, as long as you have everything documented, I think if anyone needed to hear your side of the story it'd make him look bad instead of you. From what you've said, you've handled the situation with maturity. That should pay off in the end, if it needs to.

 

[lhmhtd]

I went to pick up my stethoscope and a baby gate from a friend who currently still works there and she said, "hey I wanted to let you know you should probably stop using Dr. So & So as a reference." I told her I have not used him as a reference but I have the clinic on my resume so it's certainly no secret I worked there. When I asked why she told me he has recently gotten 2-3 calls from potential employers asking about me and he told them that apparently I can't handle "stuff." I don't like authority, I'm difficult to work with, I can't deal with stress, and basically to beware of hiring me. I asked if maybe she overheard it and could have misunderstood and she said that he's been bragging about it to the clinic. Knowing this man, and having worked for him and witnessed him trashing other employees and bragging about basically just being a dick, I have no doubt he is doing something like this.
It pisses me off, I've been nothing but professional & mature about all of this. The fact that I haven't been able to get a single decent job after what seems like an ungodly number of job interviews for SIX weeks, the financial stress this has placed on my family, the emotional turmoil I've been thru- all for not putting up with being shoved or cussed out. That's not enough? Now we have to add slander to the laundry list of BS I've gone thru. It's infuriating and I don't deserve this. This should NOT still be a problem in my life, 6 weeks after I've stopped working there.
I really didn't have enough to worry about, thanks dude.

I've contacted some lawyers and hope to hear back by Monday from some of them. Idk if I have enough "proof" to make a case against him. I do have the recording from when I went to talk with him and he asked me to please not leave, what a great employee I was, etc, and my initial email detailing that due to the verbal and physical assault by him and a fellow employee, ill no longer be working there.

 

[LyraGardenia]

Just when I thought this nightmare was over.....
I found out that this vet has been slandering me to potential employers, saying blatantly false things. I have this clinic and this veterinarian listed as an experience on my VMCAS. I did not use him as a reference, however I checked the box saying it was ok to contact this person. I'm worried if any admissions committee members do choose to contact him, he'd tell them what he's been telling other clinics in town. Does anyone know if adcoms typically contact previous experiences? This is my future on the line. Aside from the fact that he's verbally and physically assaulted me, he is now slandering me and tarnishing my name. It is clearly illegal but obviously he doesn't care.
Yay for more unneceesary stress!

The only school I've heard of contacting references is UGA, which if I remember correctly is your in-state. :/ But I have no idea if they contact every experience or what sorts of questions they ask, or if it's just to verify that you actually worked there. I'm so sorry you're still having to deal with this.

 

[Bottle of Bear]

I've contacted some lawyers and hope to hear back by Monday from some of them. Idk if I have enough "proof" to make a case against him. I do have the recording from when I went to talk with him and he asked me to please not leave, what a great employee I was, etc, and my initial email detailing that due to the verbal and physical assault by him and a fellow employee, ill no longer be working there.

My cousin and my uncle are both family lawyers so I'm not sure if it carries over to this part of the legal system, but what I've heard is to talk to as many lawyers, and get as much advice from them as you can on this, even if you don't hire them. That way if he approaches them about this they're unable to represent him as it would be a conflict of interest.

 

[vetmedhead]

My cousin and my uncle are both family lawyers so I'm not sure if it carries over to this part of the legal system, but what I've heard is to talk to as many lawyers, and get as much advice from them as you can on this, even if you don't hire them. That way if he approaches them about this they're unable to represent him as it would be a conflict of interest.

Didn't the OP mention that the guy's wife is a lawyer?

 

[Bottle of Bear]

Didn't the OP mention that the guy's wife is a lawyer?

You're right, forgot that was posted. But unless she specializes in this type of case, he'd be better off finding someone in that part of the field. Like seeing an equine vet for your fish. Sure they have the knowledge base, but you'd want to go to someone who has more familiarity on the subject.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Didn't the OP mention that the guy's wife is a lawyer?

I feel like she probably has some idea of how he treats people unless he's one of the 'double life' types. If anything, she may tell him he's being an idiot, especially if he comes home with a letter from OP's lawyer. Hopefully.

 

[lhmhtd]

Yeah his wife is a real estate lawyer but doesn't work as one any longer. She's the "practice manager" of the vet clinic which entails working 1 day a week and ordering items off the order list. I have no doubt she coached him on how to respond to emails, what to say in his meeting w me, etc.
She told me he would've never asked the last employee before me to resign had it not been for the bully female tech I've described. Btw that girl filed for unemployment and won because she was smart and documented everything from the beginning. I'm the 5th person to have left over that particular tech. Clients complain about her, coworkers complain about her, yet she's still there. Something fishy is going on for sure.
I definitely think his wife is smarter at navigating these types of interpersonal issues but I'm not really sure how involved she gets or even how much she knows.

 

[lhmhtd]

The only school I've heard of contacting references is UGA, which if I remember correctly is your in-state. :/ But I have no idea if they contact every experience or what sorts of questions they ask, or if it's just to verify that you actually worked there. I'm so sorry you're still having to deal with this.

The vet who started this clinic and sold it to the current vet a few years back is actually on the admissions committee at UGA- he only deals w OOS applications but I've considered contacting him to ask how likely they are to call the current owner. I've worked w the previous owner as he came in once a week when I worked there as a relief vet and I really like him. I think he'd be horrified if he knew what was actually happening to the clinic he built from the grind up.

 

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

The vet who started this clinic and sold it to the current vet a few years back is actually on the admissions committee at UGA- he only deals w OOS applications but I've considered contacting him to ask how likely they are to call the current owner. I've worked w the previous owner as he came in once a week when I worked there as a relief vet and I really like him. I think he'd be horrified if he knew what was actually happening to the clinic he built from the grind up.

Although I see no reason not to ask, I would really suggest saying as little as possible about the (very rant-worthy) situation. Badmouthing a potential bad reference before they are contacted isn't going to help you much. Since he is the vet used to own the practice, it just feels a little wrong to tell him all that since he no longer works there nor has any say in what happens.

That practice sounds insanely dysfunctional. I'm sure there is various things that aren't quite legal going on if someone chose to take a close look.

 

[lhmhtd]

Although I see no reason not to ask, I would really suggest saying as little as possible about the (very rant-worthy) situation. Badmouthing a potential bad reference before they are contacted isn't going to help you much. Since he is the vet used to own the practice, it just feels a little wrong to tell him all that since he no longer works there nor has any say in what happens.

That practice sounds insanely dysfunctional. I'm sure there is various things that aren't quite legal going on if someone chose to take a close look.

Yeah, that's a good point.
Oddly enough, he's one of the best vets I've ever known as far the way he practices medicine. Which makes the situation even more odd

 

[sheltermed]

I feel like sharing my own story, hope that's okay! The situation is long since over (4 years ago), but I think it pertains.

I started working at a SA clinic when I was 14. The day I was allowed to get a worker's permit, I called vets all over town, and oddly enough got a spot at the first place I called. It was really a dream come true.

My boss (the DVM) owned and managed the place herself. It was relatively small, but her clientele was significant. She also kept rescue cats at the place, and they took up the entire upper level of the practice (it's in what used to be a home). A lot of them took up cages in the treatment room as well. If we wanted to take rads (which was this big ol' thing where you'd have to go into a darkroom to develop it, I forget what it's even called--nothing digital), 2 people would need to team up to remove the large cages (cats inside) to the exam rooms, or just anywhere they'd fit.

Anyway, I don't really need to talk about the practice and how outdated and dysfunctional it was. My boss outright verbally abused us (the employees). Demeaning, nasty words for, say, feeding a cat 1/2 bowl of dry food instead of 1/4. It really hurt, especially at my young age, and I couldn't help but wonder if this was what vet med was really like. Luckily, until I was 18, I was only there part-time on the weekends, sometimes weekdays if I had time after school. It wasn't bad enough for me to leave. I was lucky enough to have that job and start getting experience so early, so I stayed.

When I was 18 and decided to take a year off from college, I started working there full-time. She had a technician working there (I was considered an assistant--you need to be licensed in my state to be called a technician), but the tech would do exactly what I did--clean cat cages all day, answer the phones, etc. She did no tech work. The doctor drew the blood, performed all treatments, etc. One day, they got into a huge screaming fight in front of me because the tech had worn deodorant that the vet was sensitive to (speaking of which, she had sent me home to shower if I came in smelling like something she couldn't handle--I made every conscious effort to not smell like anything, but I guess it happens). It was really intense and awkward for me to be there. The tech storms out, never to return. She had been taking the abuse for quite some time and this was the final straw.

I essentially took the place of the tech, no one new was hired. After all, she didn't need a tech to do any of the work anyway (nothing wrong with not having a tech, this lady just didn't know how to delegate anything). This was the kind of job where I would go home and cry daily. Wonder what she's going to say tomorrow to make me feel like a worthless person. A very close friend of mine died unexpectedly, and she was quite angry when I needed to take some time off to recover. She knew that I was planning on going to college locally the upcoming fall, so she was working on hiring someone new. As school got closer, I started to think that I should take it easier on my work hours to do the best I could. So, I told her. About 4 weeks ahead of time. She lost it. She told me that I was only taking 2 "bull****" classes (I was only going part-time because that's what I could afford at the time), and that I shouldn't have to reduce my hours. She had obviously been mean and nasty before, but I was just stunned. The next day, I put in my 2-weeks notice.

It wasn't physical like your situation, lhmhtd, but it certainly made me feel pretty awful. It truly was an unhealthy work environment. It kind of sucked that that was my first exposure to vet med, but I got a new job about a month later at a more modern, better managed clinic.

I don't entirely blame her for treating people the way she did. She was the vet, the manager, the tech, the receptionist--you name it, she did it. She had such a huge heart and devotion to helping animals, but couldn't delegate out any of the work to help her function better. It was really, really stressful for her. I just wished she could start delegating. I'm not sure if she's changed at all since I left--she had kind of a high turnover of employees at that point, and I feel like something had to give. But probably not.

 

[lhmhtd]

I feel like sharing my own story, hope that's okay! The situation is long since over (4 years ago), but I think it pertains.

I started working at a SA clinic when I was 14. The day I was allowed to get a worker's permit, I called vets all over town, and oddly enough got a spot at the first place I called. It was really a dream come true.

My boss (the DVM) owned and managed the place herself. It was relatively small, but her clientele was significant. She also kept rescue cats at the place, and they took up the entire upper level of the practice (it's in what used to be a home). A lot of them took up cages in the treatment room as well. If we wanted to take rads (which was this big ol' thing where you'd have to go into a darkroom to develop it, I forget what it's even called--nothing digital), 2 people would need to team up to remove the large cages (cats inside) to the exam rooms, or just anywhere they'd fit.

Anyway, I don't really need to talk about the practice and how outdated and dysfunctional it was. My boss outright verbally abused us (the employees). Demeaning, nasty words for, say, feeding a cat 1/2 bowl of dry food instead of 1/4. It really hurt, especially at my young age, and I couldn't help but wonder if this was what vet med was really like. Luckily, until I was 18, I was only there part-time on the weekends, sometimes weekdays if I had time after school. It wasn't bad enough for me to leave. I was lucky enough to have that job and start getting experience so early, so I stayed.

When I was 18 and decided to take a year off from college, I started working there full-time. She had a technician working there (I was considered an assistant--you need to be licensed in my state to be called a technician), but the tech would do exactly what I did--clean cat cages all day, answer the phones, etc. She did no tech work. The doctor drew the blood, performed all treatments, etc. One day, they got into a huge screaming fight in front of me because the tech had worn deodorant that the vet was sensitive to (speaking of which, she had sent me home to shower if I came in smelling like something she couldn't handle--I made every conscious effort to not smell like anything, but I guess it happens). It was really intense and awkward for me to be there. The tech storms out, never to return. She had been taking the abuse for quite some time and this was the final straw.

I essentially took the place of the tech, no one new was hired. After all, she didn't need a tech to do any of the work anyway (nothing wrong with not having a tech, this lady just didn't know how to delegate anything). This was the kind of job where I would go home and cry daily. Wonder what she's going to say tomorrow to make me feel like a worthless person. A very close friend of mine died unexpectedly, and she was quite angry when I needed to take some time off to recover. She knew that I was planning on going to college locally the upcoming fall, so she was working on hiring someone new. As school got closer, I started to think that I should take it easier on my work hours to do the best I could. So, I told her. About 4 weeks ahead of time. She lost it. She told me that I was only taking 2 "bull****" classes (I was only going part-time because that's what I could afford at the time), and that I shouldn't have to reduce my hours. She had obviously been mean and nasty before, but I was just stunned. The next day, I put in my 2-weeks notice.

It wasn't physical like your situation, lhmhtd, but it certainly made me feel pretty awful. It truly was an unhealthy work environment. It kind of sucked that that was my first exposure to vet med, but I got a new job about a month later at a more modern, better managed clinic.

I don't entirely blame her for treating people the way she did. She was the vet, the manager, the tech, the receptionist--you name it, she did it. She had such a huge heart and devotion to helping animals, but couldn't delegate out any of the work to help her function better. It was really, really stressful for her. I just wished she could start delegating. I'm not sure if she's changed at all since I left--she had kind of a high turnover of employees at that point, and I feel like something had to give. But probably not.

I'm so sorry

The amount of abuse in this field is stunning. Honestly if I could go back I'd have never left my kushy job that paid me really well and gave me freedom to choose my hours, work load, etc. But I really missed not being in a vet clinic and figured it was only beneficial as I want to be a vet- the more experience, the better. Whew was I wrong.
I cried almost daily towards the end there. Got literally screamed at on a regular basis over very minor things (someone opened a box of trash bags and there was already an open one- that was my fault apparently, and other nonsensical stuff of the sort). I was belittled, made fun of, criticized, intimidated, humiliated, on and on. It changed me. I normally never would be ok with that treatment but I honestly just thought ignoring it would make it go away. Nope. Especially after I initially talked with the vet and expressed my concern about one of the techs being so nasty to me, and he essentially just told me "well you're not the first person to come to me saying these same things and I just don't know how to fix it. She's beyond helping."

 

[sheltermed]

I'm so sorry

The amount of abuse in this field is stunning. Honestly if I could go back I'd have never left my kushy job that paid me really well and gave me freedom to choose my hours, work load, etc. But I really missed not being in a vet clinic and figured it was only beneficial as I want to be a vet- the more experience, the better. Whew was I wrong.

I cried almost daily towards the end there. Got literally screamed at on a regular basis over very minor things (someone opened a box of trash bags and there was already an open one- that was my fault apparently, and other nonsensical stuff of the sort). I was belittled, made fun of, criticized, intimidated, humiliated, on and on. It changed me. I normally never would be ok with that treatment but I honestly just thought ignoring it would make it go away. Nope. Especially after I initially talked with the vet and expressed my concern about one of the techs being so nasty to me, and he essentially just told me "well you're not the first person to come to me saying these same things and I just don't know how to fix it. She's beyond helping."

I think the major thing is that vets are really stressed, and understandably so. Unfortunately, sometimes their staff gets the brunt of that stress. That doesn't necessarily make it right, but I think it makes it a little more understandable on the side of the employee so that they can realize that they shouldn't always take it personally.

This kind of treatment changed me as well. I stand up for myself a lot more. Sometimes that even gets me into trouble, because I will defend myself or a point I've made against an authority figure (a professor, for instance), and they will get upset about it. It's just kind of taught me to be on the defensive all the time, which sucks because that makes it hard to stay objective. I'm certainly working on it!

Lol, not the first person to come to him? She should have been fired. No idea what's going on there.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

I feel like sharing my own story, hope that's okay! The situation is long since over (4 years ago), but I think it pertains.

I started working at a SA clinic when I was 14. The day I was allowed to get a worker's permit, I called vets all over town, and oddly enough got a spot at the first place I called. It was really a dream come true.

My boss (the DVM) owned and managed the place herself. It was relatively small, but her clientele was significant. She also kept rescue cats at the place, and they took up the entire upper level of the practice (it's in what used to be a home). A lot of them took up cages in the treatment room as well. If we wanted to take rads (which was this big ol' thing where you'd have to go into a darkroom to develop it, I forget what it's even called--nothing digital), 2 people would need to team up to remove the large cages (cats inside) to the exam rooms, or just anywhere they'd fit.

Anyway, I don't really need to talk about the practice and how outdated and dysfunctional it was. My boss outright verbally abused us (the employees). Demeaning, nasty words for, say, feeding a cat 1/2 bowl of dry food instead of 1/4. It really hurt, especially at my young age, and I couldn't help but wonder if this was what vet med was really like. Luckily, until I was 18, I was only there part-time on the weekends, sometimes weekdays if I had time after school. It wasn't bad enough for me to leave. I was lucky enough to have that job and start getting experience so early, so I stayed.

When I was 18 and decided to take a year off from college, I started working there full-time. She had a technician working there (I was considered an assistant--you need to be licensed in my state to be called a technician), but the tech would do exactly what I did--clean cat cages all day, answer the phones, etc. She did no tech work. The doctor drew the blood, performed all treatments, etc. One day, they got into a huge screaming fight in front of me because the tech had worn deodorant that the vet was sensitive to (speaking of which, she had sent me home to shower if I came in smelling like something she couldn't handle--I made every conscious effort to not smell like anything, but I guess it happens). It was really intense and awkward for me to be there. The tech storms out, never to return. She had been taking the abuse for quite some time and this was the final straw.

I essentially took the place of the tech, no one new was hired. After all, she didn't need a tech to do any of the work anyway (nothing wrong with not having a tech, this lady just didn't know how to delegate anything). This was the kind of job where I would go home and cry daily. Wonder what she's going to say tomorrow to make me feel like a worthless person. A very close friend of mine died unexpectedly, and she was quite angry when I needed to take some time off to recover. She knew that I was planning on going to college locally the upcoming fall, so she was working on hiring someone new. As school got closer, I started to think that I should take it easier on my work hours to do the best I could. So, I told her. About 4 weeks ahead of time. She lost it. She told me that I was only taking 2 "bull****" classes (I was only going part-time because that's what I could afford at the time), and that I shouldn't have to reduce my hours. She had obviously been mean and nasty before, but I was just stunned. The next day, I put in my 2-weeks notice.

It wasn't physical like your situation, lhmhtd, but it certainly made me feel pretty awful. It truly was an unhealthy work environment. It kind of sucked that that was my first exposure to vet med, but I got a new job about a month later at a more modern, better managed clinic.

I don't entirely blame her for treating people the way she did. She was the vet, the manager, the tech, the receptionist--you name it, she did it. She had such a huge heart and devotion to helping animals, but couldn't delegate out any of the work to help her function better. It was really, really stressful for her. I just wished she could start delegating. I'm not sure if she's changed at all since I left--she had kind of a high turnover of employees at that point, and I feel like something had to give. But probably not.

I'm so sorry

The amount of abuse in this field is stunning. Honestly if I could go back I'd have never left my kushy job that paid me really well and gave me freedom to choose my hours, work load, etc. But I really missed not being in a vet clinic and figured it was only beneficial as I want to be a vet- the more experience, the better. Whew was I wrong.
I cried almost daily towards the end there. Got literally screamed at on a regular basis over very minor things (someone opened a box of trash bags and there was already an open one- that was my fault apparently, and other nonsensical stuff of the sort). I was belittled, made fun of, criticized, intimidated, humiliated, on and on. It changed me. I normally never would be ok with that treatment but I honestly just thought ignoring it would make it go away. Nope. Especially after I initially talked with the vet and expressed my concern about one of the techs being so nasty to me, and he essentially just told me "well you're not the first person to come to me saying these same things and I just don't know how to fix it. She's beyond helping."

I've been reading this thread and thinking "damn this totally sound like what I went through." It wasn't a job in vet med...this was prior to any of that...I worked at a boarding/lesson barn for 5 years and put up with absolute bull and in the end, when I was the only one left and I seriously couldn't emotionally take the stress of that job (I would go home and bawl daily) and finally quit, she badmouthed me to anyone and everyone who would listen. I had purchased my beloved mare from her 2 years earlier and she had the audacity to tell people I "stole" the horse (funny because I paid her asking price and had a Bill of Sale with her signature on it...). She knew it wasn't true, but she just had to tell her ridiculous stories. She also had several members of her family text me and message me on Facebook and even come after me on Pinterest (yes, freakin' Pinterest) and tell me how horrible and selfish I was for quitting. I watched her treat people and horses horribly for years and do blatantly illegal things and I never spoke up because I loved the horses. It broke my heart into a million pieces when I told her I was done because I had learned so much working there, but holy heck, I'm so glad I did. Eventually, the drama died down, but it was a solid two months of hell after I finally quite.

 

[sheltermed]

I've been reading this thread and thinking "damn this totally sound like what I went through." It wasn't a job in vet med...this was prior to any of that...I worked at a boarding/lesson barn for 5 years and put up with absolute bull and in the end, when I was the only one left and I seriously couldn't emotionally take the stress of that job (I would go home and bawl daily) and finally quit, she badmouthed me to anyone and everyone who would listen. I had purchased my beloved mare from her 2 years earlier and she had the audacity to tell people I "stole" the horse (funny because I paid her asking price and had a Bill of Sale with her signature on it...). She knew it wasn't true, but she just had to tell her ridiculous stories. She also had several members of her family text me and message me on Facebook and even come after me on Pinterest (yes, freakin' Pinterest) and tell me how horrible and selfish I was for quitting. I watched her treat people and horses horribly for years and do blatantly illegal things I never spoke up because I loved the horses. It broke my heart into a million pieces when I told her I was done because I had learned so much working there, but holy heck, I'm so glad I did. Eventually, the drama died down, but it was a solid two months of hell after I finally quite.

Wow, that's pretty awful. The horse world can be really cut-throat. I only had to deal with mean barn girls, but I know there's a lot worse going on there. One time, there was a horse my parent's were considering leasing for me (I was like 13)...I loved him so much, we connected so well, and we made a really good team. I showed up the next week and this girl who already owned two other horses started leasing him and no one let me know. I was totally devastated. I haven't really been involved on the horse side of things for quite some time now, almost 10 years I'd say. People just aren't very nice.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Wow, that's pretty awful. The horse world can be really cut-throat. I only had to deal with mean barn girls, but I know there's a lot worse going on there. One time, there was a horse my parent's were considering leasing for me (I was like 13)...I loved him so much, we connected so well, and we made a really good team. I showed up the next week and this girl who already owned two other horses started leasing him and no one let me know. I was totally devastated. I haven't really been involved on the horse side of things for quite some time now, almost 10 years I'd say. People just aren't very nice.

I love the ponies but having spent so much time in the horse world (first working in barns and and owning horses and then working with equine vets), I can say with absolute certainty that I know which part of vet med I have zero interest at working in lol. I sold my horse almost 2 years ago and really haven't ridden much at all in that time. So other than cleaning stalls on some weekends, I've kinda been on a horse-world break and honestly don't mind all that much lol. It's a whole different universe, for sure.

 

[sheltermed]

I love the ponies but having spent so much time in the horse world (first working in barns and and owning horses and then working with equine vets), I can say with absolute certainty that I know which part of vet med I have zero interest at working in lol. It's a whole different universe, for sure.

I wonder what it is. Is it like, a money thing? A status thing? As in, "I'm richer than you so I'm gonna be mean as hell" ? It's quite interesting, especially how it's pretty universal no matter what part of the country or the world you are in. The barn I went to was pretty laid back, but there was often some passive aggressive **** going on. In working with an equine vet, I just see people being so hostile to each other. Do you have any idea why?

 

[mmmdreamerz]

I wonder what it is. Is it like, a money thing? A status thing? As in, "I'm richer than you so I'm gonna be mean as hell" ? It's quite interesting, especially how it's pretty universal no matter what part of the country or the world you are in. The barn I went to was pretty laid back, but there was often some passive aggressive **** going on. In working with an equine vet, I just see people being so hostile to each other. Do you have any idea why?

Maybe a common personality type? Probably money in some cases (i don't know that part...I was always the poor kid supporting her horse hobby lol)? Not everyone is like that. I know a ton of horse people and some have been incredible to me...some of these people will always be life-long friends. That world was my home for a long time and probably how I ultimately ended up in vet med. With anything in life, there is good eggs and bad. The horse world is definitely not the real world though haha

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

A lot of it is 1) money and 2) owners who are usually far more self-educated (which can be a bad thing) IMO.

Imagine if your job as a small animal practitioner involved only working with expensive purebreds and their breeders. Or a mechanic that doesn't just take care of all the Fords and Chevys out there, but only deals with expensive imports. That's pretty much what an equine vet deals with.

Horses are much more expensive than dogs or cats, and are functional (riding, jumping, racing, etc) whereas companions animals are not. That puts them in much more "valuable" category and therefore owners tend to be much more "into" them

Plus there is also a culture component, I think. A horse person meets another horse person and they are immediately like OMMGGG HORSE PERSON LETS TALK HORSES ALL THE TIME! I meet another person who has a dog and I'm like Oh, that's cool. It's a club. Like those crazy people that own Mini Coopers and go on Mini Cooper parades.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

A lot of it is 1) money and 2) owners who are usually far more self-educated (which can be a bad thing) IMO.

Imagine if your job as a small animal practitioner involved only working with expensive purebreds and their breeders. Or a mechanic that doesn't just take care of all the Fords and Chevys out there, but only deals with expensive imports. That's pretty much what an equine vet deals with.

Horses are much more expensive than dogs or cats, and are functional (riding, jumping, racing, etc) whereas companions animals are not. That puts them in much more "valuable" category and therefore owners tend to be much more "into" them

Plus there is also a culture component, I think. A horse person meets another horse person and they are immediately like OMMGGG HORSE PERSON LETS TALK HORSES ALL THE TIME! I meet another person who has a dog and I'm like Oh, that's cool. It's a club. Like those crazy people that own Mini Coopers and go on Mini Cooper parades.

Yeah most people don't just have horses to have them. More power to the people who can be equine vets. I'd lose my mind and probably not enjoy them as a hobby.

 

[Bottle of Bear]

I wonder what it is. Is it like, a money thing? A status thing? As in, "I'm richer than you so I'm gonna be mean as hell" ? It's quite interesting, especially how it's pretty universal no matter what part of the country or the world you are in. The barn I went to was pretty laid back, but there was often some passive aggressive **** going on. In working with an equine vet, I just see people being so hostile to each other. Do you have any idea why?

Been around the industry for a few years, thankfully most folks I've met have been fairly reasonable. Horse stuff tends to attract "alpha" types, and the crazies (just something about the species).

WTF pretty much covers it. I'd like to add that trainers are used to being the leader of their domain, plus they tend to have that "know your place on the ladder" mentality with regards to horses, which in turn carries over to their dealings with people. Now you get a bunch of those people, plus the ones from WTF's post, in a small place like a barn and you can watch the sparks fly.

 

[sheltermed]

Been around the industry for a few years, thankfully most folks I've met have been fairly reasonable. Horse stuff tends to attract "alpha" types, and the crazies (just something about the species).

WTF pretty much covers it. I'd like to add that trainers are used to being the leader of their domain, plus they tend to have that "know your place on the ladder" mentality with regards to horses, which in turn carries over to their dealings with people. Now you get a bunch of those people, plus the ones from WTF's post, in a small place like a barn and you can watch the sparks fly.

Ohh, lots of species attract the crazies! Cats?! Come on now!

 

[Bottle of Bear]

Ohh, lots of species attract the crazies! Cats?! Come on now!

I thought about putting that in the post, but horse crazy's a different breed from cat crazy. They do have similarities though

 

[WildZoo]

Ohh, lots of species attract the crazies! Cats?! Come on now!

I've actually met more crazy (read: high maintenance, think they know more than the doc, etc) dog people than crazy cat people. More cat hoarders though. But a large proportion of cat owners don't even bother to bring their cats to the vet so.

 

[sheltermed]

I've actually met more crazy (read: high maintenance, think they know more than the doc, etc) dog people than crazy cat people. More cat hoarders though. But a large proportion of cat owners don't even bother to bring their cats to the vet so.

Very true. Cats are like potato chips: you can't have just one.

Dog breeders ESPECIALLY know much more than the doc.

 

[Bottle of Bear]

Very true. Cats are like potato chips: you can't have just one.

Unless you get that super spicy chip they only sell one of

 

[missdarjeeling]

I think the major thing is that vets are really stressed, and understandably so. Unfortunately, sometimes their staff gets the brunt of that stress. That doesn't necessarily make it right, but I think it makes it a little more understandable on the side of the employee so that they can realize that they shouldn't always take it personally.

I strongly disagree. It's not about whether an employee should or shouldn't take it personally. Stress does not excuse abusive behavior. If someone can't help but abuse others when they're stressed, then they need to have the self-awareness to either fix the problem or leave the field. They don't have the right to continue to abuse people because, hey, they're stressed and that's just how they deal with it.

My husband was in the military, and outside of boot camp, it was rare that higher ups would be straight up verbally abusive in the way you guys are describing. And no one ever shoved or hit someone under their command. If people can hold it together and not abuse their staff when they're deployed during an actual war, I think veterinarians are capable of doing it in a small animal hospital, too. Making excuses for people who behave this way does nothing to help the victims or the abusers. Let's not set the bar so low.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I strongly disagree. It's not about whether an employee should or shouldn't take it personally. Stress does not excuse abusive behavior. If someone can't help but abuse others when they're stressed, then they need to have the self-awareness to either fix the problem or leave the field. They don't have the right to continue to abuse people because, hey, they're stressed and that's just how they deal with it.

My husband was in the military, and outside of boot camp, it was rare that higher ups would be straight up verbally abusive in the way you guys are describing. And no one ever shoved or hit someone under their command. If people can hold it together and not abuse their staff when they're deployed during an actual war, I think veterinarians are capable of doing it in a small animal hospital, too. Making excuses for people who behave this way does nothing to help the victims or the abusers. Let's not set the bar so low.

This.

Also, remember that you can leave. Don't feel loyal or tied to an abusive environment. You probably won't be able to get someone to change, but you can control whether or not that person is in your life.

 

[lhmhtd]

Until recently, and especially when I first started working in vet med, I accepted and even started to expect being treated poorly. I feel like there's this attitude of having to be able to basically be **** on if you want to gain veterinary experience. Almost like hazing, if you will.
While I do appreciate that it's a highly stressful career, you don't get a free ride to be an asshat to people who truly want to be in this field. It's such a turn off and completely unnecessary. Sack up and seek therapy, take medication, do yoga, whatever you have to do to be able to deal.