unique situation

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rianah

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Hi All,
I am new here :)

I have an undergrad from India in electrical engg. I have two M.S degrees from the US (one in EE, the other one in computer Engg). I did well in my college but I don't have GPA from India. They just assigned % scores.

I am retaking chem, physics and math to prepare for MCAT in a year. So, I plan to do all pre-reqs at U of Minnesota. (My last masters is from there as well). I have a 3.76 and 3.72 GPA from my M.S degrees. I also worked for 13 years in the US and can produce good LOR from my prev. employers.

Some times I wonder how big of an issue will my foreign undergrad will be? I have naturalized since coming to this country so, my immigration status will not be an issue.

Is there anyone on this board that has gotten into med schools in the US with a background like mine? i would love to hear from you. :confused:

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rianah said:
Hi All,
I am new here :)

I have an undergrad from India in electrical engg. I have two M.S degrees from the US (one in EE, the other one in computer Engg). I did well in my college but I don't have GPA from India. They just assigned % scores.

I am retaking chem, physics and math to prepare for MCAT in a year. So, I plan to do all pre-reqs at U of Minnesota. (My last masters is from there as well). I have a 3.76 and 3.72 GPA from my M.S degrees. I also worked for 13 years in the US and can produce good LOR from my prev. employers.

Some times I wonder how big of an issue will my foreign undergrad will be? I have naturalized since coming to this country so, my immigration status will not be an issue.

Is there anyone on this board that has gotten into med schools in the US with a background like mine? i would love to hear from you. :confused:
Sadly, you will find (as I did) that most schools will definitely have a problem with your foreign undergraduate degree. You should contact the director of admissions at each school you want to apply to now and ask them for their frank opinion as to how you should proceed for that school.

Now, that's not to say that it's impossible. Some schools will ask for the entire undergraduate degree to be repeated in the U.S. (a waste of time for you; I refused to do this), some will ask for all of the prereq's to be repeated in the U.S. (one year each of: chemistry, biology, physics, English, Organic Chemistry), while other schools may accept your foreign degree with one or two prereq's from the U.S. coupled with your graduate degree. All schools are going to ask you for between 60 and 90 credits completed in the U.S.--whether that's from your graduate work or a combination of your graduate work and prereq's--is entirely dependent on the school.

AMCAS will not let you enter your foreign undergraduate grades on their form when you apply to medical schools and, since you will essentially be applying without an undergraduate GPA, it's critical that you do very well on the MCAT to get the schools’ attention. You might also have your foreign degree evaluated on a course-by-course basis by an agency like WES, then send that directly to each school.

Have you considered applying to medical school in Canada? I found out that the few schools that accept internationals are quite open to foreign undergraduate degrees with the appropriate North American evaluation. Although I ultimately ended up at a U.S. school, I had some success in Canada. Good luck, and PM me if you want me to elaborate on any point.
 
Hello there,
I called all 3 universities in Minnesota (Minneapolis, Duluth and Rochester) several times and none of them expressed a concern with my foreign undergrad. Mayo just needs 2 years worth of undergrad credits which I should have anyway by the time I apply. They did require 2 years of post-bacc work which i happen to have so I guess that is why they thought I should be fine. :thumbup:

I assume you are a medical student now. Which state are you in? I agree that I should apply to several schools just to be safe. Moving to Canada is out of question for me, I am too used to living in the US and have a husband that won't move there :D

Thanks,
Rianah
 
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rianah said:
Hello there,
I called all 3 universities in Minnesota (Minneapolis, Duluth and Rochester) several times and none of them expressed a concern with my foreign undergrad. Mayo just needs 2 years worth of undergrad credits which I should have anyway by the time I apply. They did require 2 years of post-bacc work which i happen to have so I guess that is why they thought I should be fine.
You may have gotten lucky, but that's only three allopathic schools out of 125. I don't want to sound cynical (though I probably will anyway) but be very careful who you obtain information from at each medical school. For example, last year Mayo made it clear to several people, including myself, that they require a full four-year degree from the U.S. (Canadian degrees were also excluded which is bizarre) - even if a higher degree has been earned in the U.S. Of course, this policy could well have changed but my experience (probing deeply at around 50 U.S. schools) was that many people on the ‘front-line’ (answering the telephone and e-mail) are trained to answer very general questions for U.S.-trained students and they frequently gave incorrect information for special cases like yourself because they didn’t know any better. At some schools, I was told by the 'front-line' person that I could not apply with a foreign degree (and two U.S. higher degrees) when the Dean of Admission or a member of the Admissions Committee later told me that they do make exceptions. Conversely, I have been told by the front line person that I could apply.....only to be told by the Dean of Admissions (after application!) that foreign undergraduate degrees are not honored. I will not disclose the name of offending schools on a public forum. Anyway, be persistent, and apply widely to well-screened and probed schools. Good luck, and PM me if you need more info.
 
rianah said:
Hello there,
I called all 3 universities in Minnesota (Minneapolis, Duluth and Rochester) several times and none of them expressed a concern with my foreign undergrad. Mayo just needs 2 years worth of undergrad credits which I should have anyway by the time I apply. They did require 2 years of post-bacc work which i happen to have so I guess that is why they thought I should be fine. :thumbup:

I assume you are a medical student now. Which state are you in? I agree that I should apply to several schools just to be safe. Moving to Canada is out of question for me, I am too used to living in the US and have a husband that won't move there :D

Thanks,
Rianah

i have to agree with scott. the book issued by AAMC says Minneapolis requires a degree from approved universities. did you check that your indian college was an "approved university?" 4yrs US college degree is usually required by most of the schools. it is not usually mentioned but because it is understood. they also require you english classes. make sure that you have taken those english requirements as well. they do not count "english classes offered by non-english speaking countries " Have you also checked the citizenship requirements? i bet you already have a green card, but if you did not have a green card nor citizenship, then you will have a lot bigger problems.
 
johna said:
i have to agree with scott. the book issued by AAMC says Minneapolis requires a degree from approved universities. did you check that your indian college was an "approved university?" 4yrs US college degree is usually required by most of the schools. it is not usually mentioned but because it is understood. they also require you english classes. make sure that you have taken those english requirements as well. they do not count "english classes offered by non-english speaking countries " Have you also checked the citizenship requirements? i bet you already have a green card, but if you did not have a green card nor citizenship, then you will have a lot bigger problems.

johna,
I am a naturalized citizen of US. I plan to redo all pre-reqs including English and Social/behavioral sciences to eliminate any doubts. I got my last M.S. in computer engg from the U of Minnesota. So, I am pretty sure my undergrad school is on their list of approved schools. The Dean of Admissions seemed to like the fact that I have two masters degrees from the US (with 3.72-3.76 GPA). They infact, have the requirements for international students spelled out and she thought I had more than met the criteria. I had meetings with her couple of times and she was very +ve and supportive. So, I am very optimistic. It is not like I got my M.S degrees from a no-name online university. Besides, I should have 64 undergrad credits by the time I am done with pre-reqs. If they want 90, it won't take me much longer.

I have a feeling that some of the foreign undergrads that tried to apply to med school did not have all the educational background that I have. I have looked at the profile of someone from India that is 49, has a B.S in Engg from one of the top name schools in India, M.S. in Engg from RPI, M.B.A from Harward and real good MCAT scores. He applied for 30 schools and got into 9 or 10. He did get rejections and snubbed by 5 or 6 schools but that is only 5-6 out of 30. Also, he is 49 :thumbup:
 
rianah said:
johna,
I am a naturalized citizen of US. I plan to redo all pre-reqs including English and Social/behavioral sciences to eliminate any doubts. I got my last M.S. in computer engg from the U of Minnesota. So, I am pretty sure my undergrad school is on their list of approved schools. The Dean of Admissions seemed to like the fact that I have two masters degrees from the US (with 3.72-3.76 GPA). They infact, have the requirements for international students spelled out and she thought I had more than met the criteria. I had meetings with her couple of times and she was very +ve and supportive. So, I am very optimistic. It is not like I got my M.S degrees from a no-name online university. Besides, I should have 64 undergrad credits by the time I am done with pre-reqs. If they want 90, it won't take me much longer.

I have a feeling that some of the foreign undergrads that tried to apply to med school did not have all the educational background that I have. I have looked at the profile of someone from India that is 49, has a B.S in Engg from one of the top name schools in India, M.S. in Engg from RPI, M.B.A from Harward and real good MCAT scores. He applied for 30 schools and got into 9 or 10. He did get rejections and snubbed by 5 or 6 schools but that is only 5-6 out of 30. Also, he is 49 :thumbup:

I forgot to add, I WILL get into Medical school in the US and I will post with the good news in a couple of years ;)
 
Scottish Chap said:
...AMCAS will not let you enter your foreign undergraduate grades on their form when you apply to medical schools and, since you will essentially be applying without an undergraduate GPA, it's critical that you do very well on the MCAT to get the schools’ attention. You might also have your foreign degree evaluated on a course-by-course basis by an agency like WES, then send that directly to each school.

I am in a similar situation - foreign degrees; all pre-reqs course work repeated in US colleges, but not quite 90 credits yet; no US degree; high MCAT score.

Is it possible to enter anything on the AMCAS form (foreign degree courses?)
How do schools acknowledge your degree? (Will sending an evaluation (such as from WES) be acceptable?)
What schools are open to foreign degree-holders?

Thanks! :(
 
superman1969 said:
I am in a similar situation - foreign degrees; all pre-reqs course work repeated in US colleges, but not quite 90 credits yet; no US degree; high MCAT score.

Is it possible to enter anything on the AMCAS form (foreign degree courses?)
How do schools acknowledge your degree? (Will sending an evaluation (such as from WES) be acceptable?)
What schools are open to foreign degree-holders?

Thanks! :(
Hi there!
When you enter grades onto the AMCAS form and send it to AMCAS, the grades earned in the U.S. or Canadian undergraduate/graduate school are "verified", and a GPA is calculated, separately, for undergraduate, graduate, and postbac work. However, AMCAS will not verify grades earned at undergraduate institutions overseas or assign a GPA for that work and they are very, very clear about that. For this reason alone, you will be screened out by many schools and rejected. Read Q's recent excellent post about applying to a U.S. medical school without an undergraduate GPA (pass/fail system)....and she actually had a U.S. degree, a U.S. Ph.D., and a 43 on MCAT. You see what foreign-educated folks are up against now...... The only exception AMCAS will make is for a North American-based student who has studied for a semester overseas in which case those grades are entered as “passing” and incorporated into the U.S. degree.

Your best bet it to have your undergraduate degree evaluated on a course-by-course basis by a professional credentialing agency, and send it directly to the attention of the Admissions Committee. That's what I did and it got me a few interviews and admissions. Far better candidates than me have been consistently rejected by underestimating the foreign undergraduate degree issue so I'll be frank.

I had foreign undergraduate degree, an M.S. and a Ph.D. from the U.S., an independent grant, mountains of volunteer and clinical work, a clinical and a basic science postdoc, and >10 publications, but most honest schools were clear about what they wanted me to do to get in there and, yes, they still had a problem with the foreign degree. Bottom line: each school is used to seeing a standard North American application and it's not as straight-forward as some people think to apply as a foreign-educated applicant, in spite of anecdotal advice. Applying to graduate school in the U.S. with a foreign undergraduate degree is not a problem and it happens all the time, but applying to a U.S. medical school (10-fold more competitive) definitely is. I strongly urge you to have a first-hand conversation with the Dean or the Director of Student Admissions at each school you intend to apply to and ask for their candid opinion as to how you should proceed, but don't coach them.....let them tell you how they will assess an applicant with a foreign BS/BA degree. Even after you have spoken to several schools, be sure to apply widely; with due respect to other posters on this subject, nobody has a ‘shoe-in’ and you really can only be confident once you have an acceptance letter in hand. But be encouraged: it’s been done before and you can do it too! PM me with any additional questions.
 
rianah --

you will get in. just do your pre-reqs and ace the mcat. i'm also a naturalized citizen myself (indian)... with a b.s. in comp sci. and a few years of work experience... have been doin pre-med for the past year.

looking into the schools u plan to attend and getting clarification of your background doesn't seem like a bad idea.
 
I don't want to derail the OP's thread...

But, if you have an American degree but spent a year on a study-abroad program through your university, is that entire year's GPA also not calculated in?
 
windycitycassie said:
I don't want to derail the OP's thread...

But, if you have an American degree but spent a year on a study-abroad program through your university, is that entire year's GPA also not calculated in?
Since they are transferred to your U.S. institution and incorporated into your U.S. degree, a 'converted' (often estimated) GPA will be assigned for those credits. Many people spend their junior year abroad and, since this happens often, and it's not a big deal at all.
 
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