University of Chicago (Pre-Med) vs. UIC GPPA Medicine

medfoodie

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Hello everyone,

So I have a huge decision to make for this upcoming fall for my undergrad. I can either go to the University of Chicago as a premed and will likely major in molecular engineering (chemistry as a possibility as well) or go to the University of Illinois- Chicago and have a guaranteed seat in their medical school. My major at UIC would be chemical engineering. I honestly am torn between the two and was hoping if anyone on here had any good advice or suggestions! Thank you so much!

My ultimate goal would be to get into a MD/PHd program, as I really love research and would love to become a physician scientist, but those are really hard to get into...

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didn't some girl from UChicago just have a thousand post argument about her problems there?

that said if you are 100% sure you want to go to medicine then go to UIC. UChicago opens more doors for other opportunities but they deflate pretty hard, and UIC's engineering is decent as well.
 
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Is UIC cheaper for you? If so, no adcom will look down on you for choosing it. How "guaranteed" is the seat? Do you have to maintain above a certain GPA and get a certain MCAT score? Look into how difficult the molecular engineering/chemistry majors are at U Chicago. I wouldn't be surprised if they are notoriously difficult.
 
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Invictus, where is the thread? I'd like to read it...thanks for the advice though!

Alt12345, UIC and UChicago are around the same price for me. The guaranteed seat only comes if you maintain a 3.5 GPA and earn a MCAT score that is equal to the average of the previous year's class entering the medical school.
 
Invictus, where is the thread? I'd like to read it...thanks for the advice though!

Alt12345, UIC and UChicago are around the same price for me. The guaranteed seat only comes if you maintain a 3.5 GPA and earn a MCAT score that is equal to the average of the previous year's class entering the medical school.

That doesn't seem much guaranteed.
 
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Wow, that is a really long thread! Thanks for all the info guys!
 
It is a tough decision but I would probably take the spot at UIC. Having that guaranteed spot frees you up a lot in undergrad because you don't have to worry about letters of rec, research, volunteering, etc. That being said, if you are interested in MD/PhD then you will have to do these things anyway, especially the research part (assuming the guaranteed spot is MD-only). One downside is that, as a friend of mine who had a guaranteed spot in med school did, you might get lazy and mess around in college a lot, preventing yourself from getting into a more desirable program. Still, worst case scenario is you are in a good med school in a very good location.
 
If you are an IL resident how could UIC and U of C be about the same cost wise? Anyway it doesn't really sound like a guaranteed seat at U of I med school. I think U of C has better options for Physician Scientists.

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It is a tough decision but I would probably take the spot at UIC. Having that guaranteed spot frees you up a lot in undergrad because you don't have to worry about letters of rec, research, volunteering, etc. That being said, if you are interested in MD/PhD then you will have to do these things anyway, especially the research part (assuming the guaranteed spot is MD-only). One downside is that, as a friend of mine who had a guaranteed spot in med school did, you might get lazy and mess around in college a lot, preventing yourself from getting into a more desirable program. Still, worst case scenario is you are in a good med school in a very good location.


I agree with this for the most part except that worst case scenario is actually that OP doesnt even get a high enough mcat to get the guaranteed seat at UIC med school and has to apply regularly to med school like the rest of us, with a slightly less prestigous undergrad on his/her resume (and this is assuming OP wont have a problem maintaing a 3.5 also). But im sure OP will do wonderfully :) and thus i would also go to UIC in this position!
 
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If you are an IL resident how could UIC and U of C be about the same cost wise? Anyway it doesn't really sound like a guaranteed seat at U of I med school. I think U of C has better options for Physician Scientists.

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Well, U of C's financial aid is much better than UIC's financial aid, as U of C doesn't require me or my parents to take out loans, while UIC does!
 
I agree with this for the most part except that worst case scenario is actually that OP doesnt even get a high enough mcat to get the guaranteed seat at UIC med school and has to apply regularly to med school like the rest of us, with a slightly less prestigous undergrad on his/her resume (and this is assuming OP wont have a problem maintaing a 3.5 also). But im sure OP will do wonderfully :) and thus i would also go to UIC in this position!
Thank you for the advice kittykattat! I appreciate it! There are just so many things to consider...
 
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Like others have said, the guarantee doesn't seem to be much of a guarantee if you have to get an MCAT score equal to the average of the entering class. Also, if UChicago is financially better for you, that is another plus. Since you said you were interested in research and want to do MD/PhD, you might benefit by going to UChicago because I would think they are much better in terms of research. The only thing bad about UChicago seems to be the grade deflation. If you did well in challenging classes in high school and have the confidence that you can work hard and do well in UChicago, it may be better for you to go there because it will open up a lot of doors for you.
 
Like others have said, the guarantee doesn't seem to be much of a guarantee if you have to get an MCAT score equal to the average of the entering class. Also, if UChicago is financially better for you, that is another plus. Since you said you were interested in research and want to do MD/PhD, you might benefit by going to UChicago because I would think they are much better in terms of research. The only thing bad about UChicago seems to be the grade deflation. If you did well in challenging classes in high school and have the confidence that you can work hard and do well in UChicago, it may be better for you to go there because it will open up a lot of doors for you.
Yeah, the MCAT thing is a thing to think about for UIC. And I agree with you that the grade deflation at UChicago will be a bit of a problem...thank you for the advice though!
 
i'm a UofC grad (chem major too), and went to high school with several people who went the uic gppa route

correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought one of the benefits of gppa was it saves you a year - it's 3 yrs college and 4 yrs med school right? i don't think you mentioned that. in my mind that could be a huge plus to UIC.

i imagine that GPPA does not include guaranteed admission into MSTP at UIC right? if mdphd is 100% the track you really want then gppa might be meaningless to you.

several people have pointed out how UofC can take a toll on one's GPA. it's a challenge, no doubt, but this does not happen to everyone. if you do chose to go there, be honest with yourself when choosing your schedule, and plan it years in advance if you can. do NOT take analysis, orgo, 140s physics, and hume right out of the gate, no matter how awesome that might sound or how smart you think you are. it won't end well. being able to write well is very important at uofc for getting through the core - so take that into consideration. personally i would have gone crazy if i had more than one writing class at once to deal with. and, simply (cliche), work as hard as you possibly can to do well and fight through the tough times.

UofC does have advantages like excellent advising for getting into med school, research programs (pc bio is one i know, there might be others), and a lot of bright people to learn with. they have excellent med school admissions advising (Cassie knows a TON) and place people into big name MD-PhD programs every year. and there is something to be said about conquering the challenges of uofc - it really made me think hard and push myself constantly. i came out of college with a lot of confidence that i could succeed at my job and then later in med school.

if you go the gppa route, do not stop exploring medicine (reading, shadowing, etc) as your career - make sure you want it. and don't just finish the program and go to med school because you can't think of anything better to do with your life. the last thing you want is to end up in med school and decide you do not like it and are miserable and want to quit - i've seen that happen to some (def not all) gppa people i know.

also consider the non-academic things like location (little italy > hyde park imo, i've lived in both) and campus atmosphere. uic is a big commuter school, and uofc is the place where fun goes to die (depending on what is fun for you). try to picture where you would be the happiest and grow the most outside of school too - i never really thought about those things when choosing a college but wish i had sometimes.
 
i'm a UofC grad (chem major too), and went to high school with several people who went the uic gppa route

correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought one of the benefits of gppa was it saves you a year - it's 3 yrs college and 4 yrs med school right? i don't think you mentioned that. in my mind that could be a huge plus to UIC.

i imagine that GPPA does not include guaranteed admission into MSTP at UIC right? if mdphd is 100% the track you really want then gppa might be meaningless to you.

several people have pointed out how UofC can take a toll on one's GPA. it's a challenge, no doubt, but this does not happen to everyone. if you do chose to go there, be honest with yourself when choosing your schedule, and plan it years in advance if you can. do NOT take analysis, orgo, 140s physics, and hume right out of the gate, no matter how awesome that might sound or how smart you think you are. it won't end well. being able to write well is very important at uofc for getting through the core - so take that into consideration. personally i would have gone crazy if i had more than one writing class at once to deal with. and, simply (cliche), work as hard as you possibly can to do well and fight through the tough times.

UofC does have advantages like excellent advising for getting into med school, research programs (pc bio is one i know, there might be others), and a lot of bright people to learn with. they have excellent med school admissions advising (Cassie knows a TON) and place people into big name MD-PhD programs every year. and there is something to be said about conquering the challenges of uofc - it really made me think hard and push myself constantly. i came out of college with a lot of confidence that i could succeed at my job and then later in med school.

if you go the gppa route, do not stop exploring medicine (reading, shadowing, etc) as your career - make sure you want it. and don't just finish the program and go to med school because you can't think of anything better to do with your life. the last thing you want is to end up in med school and decide you do not like it and are miserable and want to quit - i've seen that happen to some (def not all) gppa people i know.

also consider the non-academic things like location (little italy > hyde park imo, i've lived in both) and campus atmosphere. uic is a big commuter school, and uofc is the place where fun goes to die (depending on what is fun for you). try to picture where you would be the happiest and grow the most outside of school too - i never really thought about those things when choosing a college but wish i had sometimes.
I think now they're trying to discourage students from finishing undergrad in three years because apparently med schools don't like that? and i won't have enough ap credit for that to happen anyways, and I don't really want to finish in three years instead of four.

I would love to be in a md/phd program, but i do realize that most of the programs are extremely selective, so that might not be the most realistic option. I do however love hyde park more than little italy, so the location would be fine for me. The UChicago campus atmosphere is really one of the pluses for me, and I don't really like UIC's campus very much.

Thank you for all the advice though! It is very helpful indeed!
 
I'm a little late to the thread but I'm a current UIC premed student. There are so few GPPA students and I get a bit jealous of them, honestly! You should be very proud of yourself for getting into that program!

Having said that, I've met a few before and it is difficult. If you get once C in a course, you get kicked out of the GPPA program. You can withdraw from a class but still stay in gppa but you can't get a C. That would scare me because that leaves very little leeway!

If we want to talk about campus atmosphere, I have not been happy at all at UIC. It's a commuter school and there is very little school spirit. I haven't met a ton of people who have been happy with UIC in general. You certainly won't get the full college experience with football games and whatnot, even if you live in the dorms. I really can't comment on UofC though, so I don't know if it'd be similar or not.

Also remember that UIC's med school has 4 campuses and you may be sent to one out in the suburbs or somewhere you might not like. Take that into consideration.

Do you have any specific questions that I can answer?
 
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My best friend, who is the laziest smart person I know, doesn't attend any of his classes after "Syllabus Day" and is getting a 4.0.
You will have an easier time getting a good GPA there for many reasons and if you got into U of C, I bet you'll do just fine remaining in the program.

I am thinking/was thinking about transferring there.
 
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My best friend, who is the laziest smart person I know, doesn't attend any of his classes after "Syllabus Day" and is getting a 4.0.
You will have an easier time getting a good GPA there for many reasons and if you got into U of C, I bet you'll do just fine remaining in the program.

I am thinking/was thinking about transferring there.

Is your friend a biology major? That won't fly in some advanced chem classes (biochem major) but I can see it working in bio classes.
 
Is your friend a biology major? That won't fly in some advanced chem classes (biochem major) but I can see it working in bio classes.
He's a sophomore so I'm not sure. He's also going to prereq nursing classes on the side so he can do nursing school + UIC Bio major.
 
He's a sophomore so I'm not sure. He's also going to prereq nursing classes on the side so he can do nursing school + UIC Bio major.

ah, that makes much more sense then. medfoodie, I wouldn't put too much stock into that if you plan to study a different major. Plus you will have more requirements as an honors college student.
 
Thanks for all the advice everyone! I have decided to attend UChicago and give up the GPPA seat at UIC. It was a very tough decision, but I think it will be the best for me in terms of exploring all my interests, which are not just limited to medicine.
 
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Thanks for all the advice everyone! I have decided to attend UChicago and give up the GPPA seat at UIC. It was a very tough decision, but I think it will be the best for me in terms of exploring all my interests, which are not just limited to medicine.
Let's talk in a year. ;) But I understand, because I was in your situation 2 years ago.
 
Wait, so you had to pick between UChicago and UIC GPPA as well?
No, I go to Northwestern, where it is easier than UC, by the way. But you'll see what I mean. You'll be working much harder for grades that aren't as good as your peers that went to easier schools in Chicago.
 
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yeah the UIC med school spot doesn't seem so guaranteed to me. And what if you'd like to go elsewhere for med school? If cost isn't an issue and you're up for the challenge, I'd go to U Chicago. It's a fantastic school with great research opportunities. I met several U of C students at my interviews and second look and they absolutely killed it this cycle, so it's certainly possible to do well. I have a friend who was accepted to a similar 'guaranteed' spot at another school when she applied to college but turned it down. Her parents thought she was crazy. So she went to another college, had a good time, and now she has multiple acceptances to some top schools. If you're good enough to get into the guaranteed spot program, then you would probably do well in college and the regular application cycle anyways.

edit: just read that you already made a decision, yay!
 
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yeah the UIC med school spot doesn't seem so guaranteed to me. And what if you'd like to go elsewhere for med school? If cost isn't an issue and you're up for the challenge, I'd go to U Chicago. It's a fantastic school with great research opportunities. I met several U of C students at my interviews and second look and they absolutely killed it this cycle, so it's certainly possible to do well. I have a friend who was accepted to a similar 'guaranteed' spot at another school when she applied to college but turned it down. Her parents thought she was crazy. So she went to another college, had a good time, and now she has multiple acceptances to some top schools. If you're good enough to get into the guaranteed spot program, then you would probably do well in college and the regular application cycle anyways.

edit: just read that you already made a decision, yay!
A 3.5 at UIC for someone to get in the program would be easy peasy. Well of course the best at UC get interviews, but if I could do it all again, I would be the best at UIC than average here. :(

Good luck, I hope your fun doesn't die there! :)
 
A 3.5 at UIC for someone to get in the program would be easy peasy. Well of course the best at UC get interviews, but if I could do it all again, I would be the best at UIC than average here. :(

Good luck, I hope your fun doesn't die there! :)

lol ok
 
another factor that came into my final decision: i wasn't assigned to the chicago campus...i was assigned to one of uic's other satellite campuses...and after dealing with the incredibly unhelpful staff, i also decided that i didn't want to spend my undergrad at uic just for a guaranteed med spot at a campus besides the uic chicago campus. but i definitely know that i will be happy at uchicago, even if my grades suffer.
 
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Ouch MD/PhD thats a tough road. I just passed the first of many hurdles on mine. Note that pure engineering MD/PhDs are just becoming more developed and for you since chemical engineering will be your major you will have to focus on things like fluid dynamics probably or cross into material science for things like biomaterials. The schools I interviewed at where I would be getting an engineering PhD had departments that were mostly computational biologists with some electrical engineers working on neurosci. ChemE has a lot of process optimization. That isn't really that useful for a physician. However, if you don't care about the prestige or the money saved on med school and just want the skills an MD/PhD offers then I'd say go for the guaranteed acceptance into med school and get a PhD after. MD/PhD is insanely competitive. At a med school interview group there are always some people who clearly don't belong. That isn't a thing at MD/PhD interviews. If you really want to go the true MD/PhD route then U Chicago would be better. Sadly northwestern would be the best since they have more research faculty and one of the best MSTP programs in the country. People don't even talk about mcat or gpa w/ MD/PhD since its just a given that an interviewed applicant would have rly high scores.

But my biggest advice would be to go to the school where you would feel most at home not just the one with the easy classes or best profs. The culture of your undergrad will determine your life and it is incredibly sad when a student resents an undergraduate school.
 
Also molecular engineering is that the undergrad name for synthetic biology? I have a friend who does synthetic biology PhD down south at Rice and there are MD/PhD students from Baylor (crazy good program even better than northwestern's I think) taking those classes. I don't know if there are that many synthetic biology MD/PhDs yet since its so far from the clinic but it has the potential to become one of the most exciting fields. Anyway food for thought.
 
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Also molecular engineering is that the undergrad name for synthetic biology? I have a friend who does synthetic biology PhD down south at Rice and there are MD/PhD students from Baylor (crazy good program even better than northwestern's I think) taking those classes. I don't know if there are that many synthetic biology MD/PhDs yet since its so far from the clinic but it has the potential to become one of the most exciting fields. Anyway food for thought.
thanks for the advice! I'm not sure if i really want to do a md/phd (it's just an idea), but i ended up choosing uchicago because i feel more at home there then at uic, and if i don't get into medical school, i think i'll still be okay.
 
Not too long ago, I was accepted to UChicago and UIC's GPPA program just like the OP. I know many students that have attended U of C and are attending U of C currently, and I myself have been through a good portion of the GPPA program. I read this chat and sought to dispel a few misconceptions about GPPA commented by many people who have never attended it.

Instead of being just a risk-averse program for getting into med school like other BS/MD's are, GPPA is unique in that it sets you up to excel further and take greater advantage of opportunities than you would have in a traditional undergraduate setting. The reason why it doesn't get the same credit as HPME or PLME is because GPPA is only open to Illinois residents. Here below are just some of the benefits of GPPA.

UIC GPPA Undergrad perks
1) Each of your peers in the program have gotten into elite schools such as Harvard, Stanford, etc. You will frequently be surrounded by incredible minds.

2) GPPA offers much freedom to do things that interest you outside the mundane pre-medical e.c's of volunteering and shadowing doctors. GPPA students have done things like starting businesses, traveled to foreign countries to learn classic european painting styles, and many more. These substantial e.c's are the reason that we have a rich history of Gates-Cambridge Scholars, Truman scholars, and specifically for the sciences Goldwater scholars. The number of such scholars in our program is either on par with or supersedes such programs as HPME or PLME (comparing the records that each institution has put online). Also, because students are not bound to the program, many apply out. Often, these students get into med schools like Stanford, Columbia, and UMichigan with massive merit scholarships

3) UIC and it's medical school are located in the Illinois Medical District, where some of the most groundbreaking research in the country takes place. Many labs here are on par with and often supersede the labs at U of C. For example, the Orthopedics Department at Rush is ranked 4th in the nation when it comes to research output.

4) You are offered classes at the medical school in subjects such as "The Evolution of Medicine" and are mentored by GPPA faculty that are WELL renowned in academic circles. In fact, the director of the program was tasked with putting together the convention of the 40th ish anniversary of the discovery of the DNA double helix. Rec letters from such people are tremendously valuable.

5) Maintaining a 3.5 gpa at UIC for the program is fairly easy. U of C's Core Curriculum, which all students are required to take, is reasonably challenging. Taking pre-med courses at U of C can make your gpa take a serious hit if your not careful. Additionally, you only need a 510 ish (not terribly challenging) MCAT score to matriculate to UIC's medical school. The program faculty really don't like to kick people out, so you have ample chances.

6) Although UIC is a state school, it does have many incredibly brilliant students. However, they make up a much smaller percent of the population at UIC than they do at U of C. This means that it is easier for ambitious students to take advantage of the best resources (nominations for national scholarships, funding for startups, etc.) at UIC, whose counterparts at U of C are HEAVILY competed for. Also, GPPA medicine students have a ton of street cred at UIC and are seriously considered by faculty for these opportunities and resources.

UIC Medical School Perks
1) Although UIC COM (College of Medicine) doesn't have the same "name" as Northwestern's or UChicago's medical school. It has the same number, or even larger numbers, of students that match in the top residencies of each specialty. If you don't believe me, you can check for yourself on each schools' match lists. I've done so numerous times.

2) UIC COM was the first med school to initiate the AOA medical school honors society and is roughly the 5th or 6th oldest medical school in the U.S. This legacy of excellence has been demonstrated in the fact that we've had graduates that have become surgeon general and U.S senators.

3) UIC COM's tuition stands at 36k per year, which is MUCH MUCH cheaper than other top medical schools. UIC also offers ample merit scholarships to entering students ranging from 15k per year to full tuition scholarships.

4) For GPPA students hoping to get into the MSTP program, they only have to worry about doing a ton of research to get into the PhD portion, as opposed to doing long hours of volunteering and shadowing to initially get into the MD program


In short GPPA can potentially help the most ambitious students get to where they want to be much easier than an acceptance at a top 10 undergrad
 
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Not too long ago, I was accepted to UChicago and UIC's GPPA program just like the OP. I know many students that have attended U of C and are attending U of C currently, and I myself have been through a good portion of the GPPA program. I read this chat and sought to dispel a few misconceptions about GPPA commented by many people who have never attended it.

Instead of being just a risk-averse program for getting into med school like other BS/MD's are, GPPA is unique in that it sets you up to excel further and take greater advantage of opportunities than you would have in a traditional undergraduate setting. The reason why it doesn't get the same credit as HPME or PLME is because GPPA is only open to Illinois residents. Here below are just some of the benefits of GPPA.

UIC GPPA Undergrad perks
1) Each of your peers in the program have gotten into elite schools such as Harvard, Stanford, etc. You will frequently be surrounded by incredible minds.

2) GPPA offers much freedom to do things that interest you outside the mundane pre-medical e.c's of volunteering and shadowing doctors. GPPA students have done things like starting businesses, traveled to foreign countries to learn classic european painting styles, and many more. These substantial e.c's are the reason that we have a rich history of Gates-Cambridge Scholars, Truman scholars, and specifically for the sciences Goldwater scholars. The number of such scholars in our program is either on par with or supersedes such programs as HPME or PLME (comparing the records that each institution has put online). Also, because students are not bound to the program, many apply out. Often, these students get into med schools like Stanford, Columbia, and UMichigan with massive merit scholarships

3) UIC and it's medical school are located in the Illinois Medical District, where some of the most groundbreaking research in the country takes place. Many labs here are on par with and often supersede the labs at U of C. For example, the Orthopedics Department at Rush is ranked 4th in the nation when it comes to research output.

4) You are offered classes at the medical school in subjects such as "The Evolution of Medicine" and are mentored by GPPA faculty that are WELL renowned in academic circles. In fact, the director of the program was tasked with putting together the convention of the 40th ish anniversary of the discovery of the DNA double helix. Rec letters from such people are tremendously valuable.

5) Maintaining a 3.5 gpa at UIC for the program is fairly easy. U of C's Core Curriculum, which all students are required to take, is reasonably challenging. Taking pre-med courses at U of C can make your gpa take a serious hit if your not careful. Additionally, you only need a 510 ish (not terribly challenging) MCAT score to matriculate to UIC's medical school. The program faculty really don't like to kick people out, so you have ample chances.

6) Although UIC is a state school, it does have many incredibly brilliant students. However, they make up a much smaller percent of the population at UIC than they do at U of C. This means that it is easier for ambitious students to take advantage of the best resources (nominations for national scholarships, funding for startups, etc.) at UIC, whose counterparts at U of C are HEAVILY competed for. Also, GPPA medicine students have a ton of street cred at UIC and are seriously considered by faculty for these opportunities and resources.

UIC Medical School Perks
1) Although UIC COM (College of Medicine) doesn't have the same "name" as Northwestern's or UChicago's medical school. It has the same number, or even larger numbers, of students that match in the top residencies of each specialty. If you don't believe me, you can check for yourself on each schools' match lists. I've done so numerous times.

2) UIC COM was the first med school to initiate the AOA medical school honors society and is roughly the 5th or 6th oldest medical school in the U.S. This legacy of excellence has been demonstrated in the fact that we've had graduates that have become surgeon general and U.S senators.

3) UIC COM's tuition stands at 36k per year, which is MUCH MUCH cheaper than other top medical schools. UIC also offers ample merit scholarships to entering students ranging from 15k per year to full tuition scholarships.

4) For GPPA students hoping to get into the MSTP program, they only have to worry about doing a ton of research to get into the PhD portion, as opposed to doing long hours of volunteering and shadowing to initially get into the MD program


In short GPPA can potentially help the most ambitious students get to where they want to be much easier than an acceptance at a top 10 undergrad
This post was super helpful to choose the GPPA BS/MD program over case western or other BS/MD programs not just vs top 10 undergrad
 
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