University of Sydney 2016

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aetern954

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Is anyone planning to apply to USyd to start in 2016?

Anyone know what the admission statistics are for US international students (GPA/MCAT)? I know they post minimums; however, I am curious as to their average accepted scores.

Concerning matching in the US: From previous discussions on this board, it seems like the consensus is that the more clinical experience obtained in the US, the better. When looking at the difference between UQ-Ochsner and USyd, the first provides almost all rotations in the US, and the latter provides a good deal of flexibility to allow students to do some rotations in the US. If a student had good USMLE scores, is the difference in US experience between these two enough to lead to drastic differences in match chances?
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Heya-
I've just started USyd two months ago and thought I'd write a bit from my experience.

GPA and MCAT are hurdles for interview. If you are above minimum for both, you will get an interview offer.
I believe they rank the applicants according to your interview score and MCAT afterward.
I personally could not find average MCAT/GPA anywhere on the internet last year and I haven't gone around asking people their MCAT scores (I don't plan on annoying my new "mates").

I had been accepted to UQ-O and USyd last year and ultimately decided to attend USyd.
Main reason for me was that Ochsner does not have residency program that I am interested in (Emergency Medicine), thus my connection there would be less useful. On top of that, UQ only allows one away elective, which will allow me to form connection with one program.
At Usyd, you can do one elective and one core rotation in U.S., which means I can do one EM rotation as an elective and another 4 week as a core rotation for critical care block.
From what I've heard, 2 letters from US physician are plenty (some may disagree).

Here are some other things I considered when I was debating between the two schools:
Location: This went to USyd for me as I have been to both Sydney and Brisbane and preferred Sydney's climate. Brisbane is really nice place though.

Recognition: This went to USyd. My friend asked a residency director who had recently accepted an USyd grad. He had a favorable view on USyd before he met the candidate (whom, he said, was very impressive) whereas he didn't really know what to think of UQ. UQ is a really great school and in time, will develop a reputation for itself. Yet at the moment, it is less recognized outside of Australia.

Cohorts: This goes to UQ just because there are so many US students who plan on returning to US. Whereas here, there are more Canadians. Most Canadian students at USyd wants to take USMLE, but most give up on it by the time MS3 rolls around (at least from what I hear). I think there are about 5 US students and 50+ Canadians from my class.

Potential racism against Asian (I'm Asian): This goes to USyd. Sydney has more Asian population (~20%) and I thought Asians will be more tolerated. There are still some racism such as "Asians go home" graffitti. It's probably about the same in Brisbane though. Aussies are generally really nice people.

US Mentor: UQ. The fact you spent MS3-4 in US means you will have a mentor who has gone through the match rather recently.

Class size: From what I understand, USyd has ~300 and UQ has ~500.

Internet: Unlimited internet access (monitored) for USyd and 10Gb download limit for UQ. I like freedom not to worry about quota.

Match Interview Availability: This goes to USyd. The last term at USyd is called PRINT (pre-intern) which you can do back in your home country. This means that for the most part of match interview season, you will be in U.S. relatively close to interview sites. I believe UQ requires the students to be in Australia for November. This is not a deal breaker, but something worth considering.

Research: For USyd, research is required for graduation. For UQ, it is available but not required. Required research means that it will probably have better support (probably). I enjoy research and it would help my CV, but it is extra work.

Scholarships: There are some scholarships for international students available for USyd. It's not a lot, but there are some. For UQ, as far as I know, there is no scholarship for international students.

Cost of Living: UQ. Way cheaper, but I know a family in Sydney who's renting me a room for $150 a week, including food/utilities. It's not that bad for me.

*Other positives for USyd according to a friend in US med school after talking to me: Pass/Fail. Cadaver is prossection as opposed to dissection (less time wasted. Optional dissection cadaver lab available in second year). Pretty stress free with only 2-3 exams a year and week long breaks between blocks->A lot of time for studying USMLE if you are well disciplined (although this is also true for UQ I think). 7 week dedicated study period for Step 1 (longer than what she has).
 
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Wow! Thanks for writing that up, Epell! I have been leaning towards USyd a lot more recently for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. It is great to hear from an actual student. Are you enjoying your time there so far?

I really would like to go into preventive medicine and/or infectious disease and it seems like USydney has more resources and experience with ID and global health related areas. Sydney in general seems to have more community organizations for that kind of thing as well. I could be wrong. I also like Sydney better than Brisbane. The cost of living is the part that hurts. haha I have done some preliminary searches and can tell that USydney's cost of living estimate doesn't get you much if you want to rent your own apartment.

Do you feel that getting the chance to do those rotations through USyd and get those 2 letters from US physicians will be enough to give you an edge as a US IMG in matching?

Do you like the facilities at USyd?
 
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I am enjoying my time enough so far. There are students here with majors in what they call "medical sciences" degree. It's basically first two years of medical school done over four years of undergrad. They are unfairly advantaged and they pretty much know everything. It's hard to compete with those guys and so just don't.
The med-sci guys are usually very helpful and back-stabbing gunner culture is non-existent here. Ask the med-sci a question, you will get an answer.

I haven't done the match, so I can't say anything for certain. From what I hear, the rotation at the program and getting connection is more important than the letters. Somebody suggested three letters total for match: 2 from specialty of your interest (probably from US) and 1 from any specialty that shows your character. The character assessment probably does not require a US physician. That's my take on it currently.

Your question on facilities reminded me of another plus for USyd over UQ-O. UQ-O has one clinical facility. All of the UQ-O students will be crammed into one hospital. Whereas USyd has six clinical schools with ~50 students per clinical school. More individualized attention is better in my view. With that in mind, each clinical school has their pros and cons. You'll find out more about that later.
Otherwise there is no such thing as medical school "building" here. Just couple of buildings for faculty offices (anatomy building and public health building) and bunch of students taking classes together. I watch online lectures for the most part and study by myself, so facilities are usually not that important. The facilities I have been to so far has been generally nice enough.
 
im an aussie applying to usyd this year, i meet the hurdle for interview and intwrviews are my bitch, im not worried about the getting in
aus med schools dont really have a gunner culture ... we all just help each other because you know karma and whatnot
im coming from the med sci background so the first few years will be a breeze
living costs in syd are crazy, but thats what jobs are for, ive interviewed at a couple high class brothels because time is money and being paid $200 an hour sounds great (besides no one will know on future job applications, and you dont have to disclose it to anyone but the taxation people)
i dont think that theres an 'eliteness' difference from school to school, the schools like to think so, but really it doesnt matter what school you come from, our internship allocations arent based on grades, and residency/registrar positions arent based on school scores, but because youre an international you arent guaranteed an internship position at the moment, however the government is trying to solve that and make more positions so even international students can train
i honestly think that if thats fixed, youd be better off training here cause its way less insane
 
Well, I just submitted my application! Here goes the 3 month waiting process. haha

Thanks for all the feedback! I am really leaning heavily toward USyd over UQ-O. Seems like a better experience overall at USyd.
 
giraffedom said:
living costs in syd are crazy, but thats what jobs are for, ive interviewed at a couple high class brothels because time is money and being paid $200 an hour sounds great (besides no one will know on future job applications, and you dont have to disclose it to anyone but the taxation people)
Click to expand...

:claps:
 
Epell said:
GPA and MCAT are hurdles for interview.
Click to expand...
So if you get an interview, you'll have to fly all the way there to attend? Do they do online interview?

Also, how hard is it to get back to the US later to practice?
 
PhoenixFire said:
So if you get an interview, you'll have to fly all the way there to attend? Do they do online interview?

Also, how hard is it to get back to the US later to practice?
Click to expand...

They conduct Skype interviews for international applicants.

As to your second question, that is one that I would like to know as well. It is already clear that international medical graduates have a lower match rate. US IMGs do a bit better than other IMGs. It seems that the consensus has been that this is all due to residency programs being less comfortable with taking med graduates that haven't had exposure to US clinical settings. This is why UQ-O has a big draw: You do all your rotations in a US setting. As a result, the match results are pretty great for that program. They seem to be much closer to a regular US grad rate than a US IMG match rate. USyd though offers a good number of opportunities to do away rotations in the US. So, it seems hard to believe that it would be that much harder to match. To echo Epell above, it seems that as long as you can get good letters of recommendation from those away rotations, then you most likely wont see the same poor match rate as other US IMGs. My guess is that poor match rates for US IMGs is due to lower USMLE scores (since international schools don't help you as much for it) and a lack of US clinical exposure (as demonstrated by a lack of US physician LoRs). So as long as you take intentional steps to do all that you need to do for USMLE prep and really capitalize on away rotation opportunities, it seems that you are fine. This is my current operating assumption. haha Would love to hear from someone that knows more fully.
 
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aetern954 said:
They conduct Skype interviews for international applicants.

As to your second question, that is one that I would like to know as well. It is already clear that international medical graduates have a lower match rate. US IMGs do a bit better than other IMGs. It seems that the consensus has been that this is all due to residency programs being less comfortable with taking med graduates that haven't had exposure to US clinical settings. This is why UQ-O has a big draw: You do all your rotations in a US setting. As a result, the match results are pretty great for that program. They seem to be much closer to a regular US grad rate than a US IMG match rate. USyd though offers a good number of opportunities to do away rotations in the US. So, it seems hard to believe that it would be that much harder to match. To echo Epell above, it seems that as long as you can get good letters of recommendation from those away rotations, then you most likely wont see the same poor match rate as other US IMGs. My guess is that poor match rates for US IMGs is due to lower USMLE scores (since international schools don't help you as much for it) and a lack of US clinical exposure (as demonstrated by a lack of US physician LoRs). So as long as you take intentional steps to do all that you need to do for USMLE prep and really capitalize on away rotation opportunities, it seems that you are fine. This is my current operating assumption. haha Would love to hear from someone that knows more fully.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much it.
 
when does their school year start and end?
it seems like U Sydney just starts accepting applications this month.
 
Hey y'all
Since somebody sent me a PM (and I happened to check SDN today) I suppose some answers would be nice.

Like I said, there aren't that many U.S. students at USyd (I know 4 including myself in my class), so not that many people are taking USMLE, trying match US residencies, etc. Some Canadians think about taking USMLE, but really it's too much for most and they will give up by the end of second year.
It seems like generally those who put in time to USMLE/elective/match process tend to be successful (again, the sample size is fairly small). Study as hard as you can, and you will probably be fine.

As for USMLE prep, the classes tend to be pretty relaxed here, so you can definitely study USMLE on the side. I think I'm about 10% done for my first FA pass and 20% on Pathoma; it's only been 3 months into the program. Not to mention you get 9 weeks of dedicated study period after second year, which is way more than my friend in US gets.
So, I don't think U Syd makes USMLE prep particularly difficult.

Oh and there is no such thing as "semester" in SMP. There are five blocks between February and the end of November. After each block is one week break. Just one long long year.
 
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Epell said:
Oh and there is no such thing as "semester" in SMP. There are five blocks between February and the end of November. After each block is one week break. Just one long long year.
Click to expand...
so U of Sydney is starting to accept applications now for February 2016 entry?
they have "August round" and "October around" for applications, so I'm confused... o_o
 
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Heya, I don't really understand August round and things. Those might be new this year.
For your perspective, I sent in my application on mid-May, received invitation to skype interview around mid-July and received offer early August.

I suppose October round is if there are spaces left over after some applicants withdraw their spots.

p.s. It doesn't mean much, but USyd was recently ranked the highest for medicine among Australia medical schools in the latest QS ranking (overtaking UMelb)
 
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i have lots of questions:

the application tells me to upload transcript and MCAT score; so do they also have to be sent (or mailed) by my school and AAMC?

did you apply to other Australian med schools as well?
what was the interview like? could you tell me about the interviews? thanks :)
lastly: did they give you a month to turn in deposit?
 
the application tells me to upload transcript and MCAT score; so do they also have to be sent (or mailed) by my school and AAMC?
Click to expand...
I believe I scanned the transcript and uploaded it to website. It wasn't necessary for my school to send it for me. As for MCAT score, I think I just sent the reference number.
There will be instruction on this.

did you apply to other Australian med schools as well?
Click to expand...
I applied to UQ-O. I didn't apply to UMelb because Melb require prerequisite Biochemistry classes, which I didn't have.

what was the interview like? could you tell me about the interviews? thanks :)
Click to expand...
Interview was on Skype and regular old MMI format, which you should look into.
Dress for success, look directly into the camera when answering (not at the screen), be a normal human being.
I think the interviewers are instructed not to make small talk with the applicants. There will be a lot of awkward silences.

lastly: did they give you a month to turn in deposit?
Click to expand...
Ah, the placement deposit. The deposit as an international student is ridiculously high (~30k). Send an email to [email protected] and you should be able to reduce the amount (assuming you will be taking loans to pay the tuition). My deposit was ~3k after reduction. I don't remember how long they gave me, but I had 3k lying around in my bank account so no sweat.
 
if you scanned and uploaded transcript, it's not "official" anymore, is it?
my school said if they issued the transcript to me, it's not official. I wonder if USyd has a problem with that...

Epell said:
Ah, the placement deposit. The deposit as an international student is ridiculously high (~30k). Send an email to [email protected] and you should be able to reduce the amount (assuming you will be taking loans to pay the tuition). My deposit was ~3k after reduction.
Click to expand...
:eek: if you decided later not to attend, would they refund the deposit to you?
 
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Maruko said:
if you scanned and uploaded transcript, it's not "official" anymore, is it?
my school said if they issued the transcript to me, it's not official. I wonder if USyd has a problem with that...


:eek: if you decided later not to attend, would they refund the deposit to you?
Click to expand...
no, that is the whole point of a deposit. You're saving a spot for yourself that another student could be taking
 
t0ny said:
no, that is the whole point of a deposit. You're saving a spot for yourself that another student could be taking
Click to expand...
wow, this is the only school i know that don't refund deposit to you...

american schools don't, either, but their deposits are $1500 at most...
 
GPA and MCATs are not hurdle for interview. They are hurdle for applying. They have specific cut off border which vary each year and Sydney do not release any information on these past cut offs.
 
Maruko said:
if you scanned and uploaded transcript, it's not "official" anymore, is it?
my school said if they issued the transcript to me, it's not official. I wonder if USyd has a problem with that...
Click to expand...
Well, USyd didn't have problem with that when I uploaded it. USYd does not require "official" transcript, I suppose.
Your school can't upload the scan anyhow, you have to do it yourself.

:eek: if you decided later not to attend, would they refund the deposit to you?
Click to expand...
When I received my letter of offer, there was a section on the letter on refund policy.
Basically, if you inform them of your decision early enough, you get 90% of deposit back (10% goes to administration fee)
I received deposit back from UQ no problem, I doubt it will be any different for USyd.

(p.s. Take information from pre-med with a grain of salt)
 
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what was your gpa if you don't mind sharing?
 
----submitted twice by accident see below
 
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Epell said:
I believe I scanned the transcript and uploaded it to website. It wasn't necessary for my school to send it for me. As for MCAT score, I think I just sent the reference number.
There will be instruction on this.


I applied to UQ-O. I didn't apply to UMelb because Melb require prerequisite Biochemistry classes, which I didn't have.


Interview was on Skype and regular old MMI format, which you should look into.
Dress for success, look directly into the camera when answering (not at the screen), be a normal human being.
I think the interviewers are instructed not to make small talk with the applicants. There will be a lot of awkward silences.


Ah, the placement deposit. The deposit as an international student is ridiculously high (~30k). Send an email to [email protected] and you should be able to reduce the amount (assuming you will be taking loans to pay the tuition). My deposit was ~3k after reduction. I don't remember how long they gave me, but I had 3k lying around in my bank account so no sweat.
Click to expand...

What was your MCAT score (breakdown) if you don't mind sharing? How important are your MCAT scores for Australian medical schools (I have an equivalent of a 29 with an 8 equivalent on verbal--took the new MCAT)?
 
I like both University of Queensland and Univ of Sydney for medical studies. I'd appreciate any info that can help answer some of my questions below. Thanks in advance!

1. Does anyone have statistics of the US residency match rate and USMLE results achieved by the USydney students and the UQ onshore traditional MD students who want to practice in the US?

2. Could someone give us an estimate on the annual cost of living in the city where UQ medical school is, and in Sydney where USydney med school is, including rent, food, bus tickets, utilities, etc.? Please estimate based on the lowest standard of living that will only allow normal medical studies without any luxury, i.e., no entertainment, cook my own food, do my own laundry, live in shared apartment, walk to or take bus/subway to go to school, but do not cut back on necessary text books or academic needs, etc. I've heard that Sydney is more expensive to live in than Brisbane, but around the areas where the med schools are located, approximately how much more expensive is Sydney than Brisbane annually? For example, if I budget AUD $15K/year for living in Brisbane, will AUD $20K/year be enough for living in Sydney?

3. For those who take USMLE exams, do you take them in the US or in Australia?
 
aetern954 said:
They conduct Skype interviews for international applicants.

As to your second question, that is one that I would like to know as well. It is already clear that international medical graduates have a lower match rate. US IMGs do a bit better than other IMGs. It seems that the consensus has been that this is all due to residency programs being less comfortable with taking med graduates that haven't had exposure to US clinical settings. This is why UQ-O has a big draw: You do all your rotations in a US setting. As a result, the match results are pretty great for that program. They seem to be much closer to a regular US grad rate than a US IMG match rate. USyd though offers a good number of opportunities to do away rotations in the US. So, it seems hard to believe that it would be that much harder to match. To echo Epell above, it seems that as long as you can get good letters of recommendation from those away rotations, then you most likely wont see the same poor match rate as other US IMGs. My guess is that poor match rates for US IMGs is due to lower USMLE scores (since international schools don't help you as much for it) and a lack of US clinical exposure (as demonstrated by a lack of US physician LoRs). So as long as you take intentional steps to do all that you need to do for USMLE prep and really capitalize on away rotation opportunities, it seems that you are fine. This is my current operating assumption. haha Would love to hear from someone that knows more fully.
Click to expand...

How many weeks can you use to gain US clinic experiences, 8 weeks, 16 weeks? Are they long enough for one to get good US physician LoRs? I heard that for some states in the US, if a foreign med school, say USyd, allows its students to do clinic rotation longer than certain number of weeks in another country outside of the country the med school belongs to, say the US, then its IMGs are not allowed to get residency in those US states, except such foreign med schools are specially approved by those states. Is USyd med school on the list of such approved schools? Maybe I am wrong, but please correct me if you know the rules.
 
greatjoe4life said:
When are interview invites coming out?
Click to expand...

http://sydney.edu.au/medicine/study/md/admission/dates.php


bobiest said:
I like both University of Queensland and Univ of Sydney for medical studies. I'd appreciate any info that can help answer some of my questions below. Thanks in advance!

1. Does anyone have statistics of the US residency match rate and USMLE results achieved by the USydney students and the UQ onshore traditional MD students who want to practice in the US?

2. Could someone give us an estimate on the annual cost of living in the city where UQ medical school is, and in Sydney where USydney med school is, including rent, food, bus tickets, utilities, etc.? Please estimate based on the lowest standard of living that will only allow normal medical studies without any luxury, i.e., no entertainment, cook my own food, do my own laundry, live in shared apartment, walk to or take bus/subway to go to school, but do not cut back on necessary text books or academic needs, etc. I've heard that Sydney is more expensive to live in than Brisbane, but around the areas where the med schools are located, approximately how much more expensive is Sydney than Brisbane annually? For example, if I budget AUD $15K/year for living in Brisbane, will AUD $20K/year be enough for living in Sydney?

3. For those who take USMLE exams, do you take them in the US or in Australia?
Click to expand...

1. USyd doesn't collect this information.

2. http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...ity1=Brisbane&country2=Australia&city2=Sydney

3. http://www.ecfmg.org/2014ib/step-1-step-2-ck-testing-locations.html
 
So is it a consensus to be expecting an interview invite before this week is over?
 
Did anyone else receive the interview invite email? is your booking link working?
 
I did, and no it's not
 
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Its scary because the deadline is on Monday which is late Sunday here in North America.
 
I sent them an email but whats worse is that its 2am their time on Saturday, which means they won't respond until Sunday night for us.
 
I received an invite and my link worked. However, I did it late last night. Perhaps use a different browser or check your settings in case that is what it is?
 
greatjoe4life said:
which browser did you use?
Click to expand...

I used Safari. I don't think it would matter as much about which browser as much as the fact that a different browser might have some different settings that will help the link along. It might be a better solution than to dig into all the exact settings that might be messing it up. Again, I did it late last night, so maybe the site went down after that.
 
My link doesn't work either. Have tried IE, Chrome, and Safari.
 
Has anyone figured out how to connect to the interview scheduling page?
 
The problem was on their side - now the link works.
 
yea it works now
anyone for mmi skype practise?
 
add my skype axz11221
I'll create a group chat
 
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