Unmatched For The 2nd Year in a Row

[Unmatched Pod Grad]

As a podiatry graduate that has not matched yet a second year in a row, I know that the CPME and my school of Kent State University College of Podiatric Medicine (KSUCPM) have failed me. I graduated in May of 2014, and even though I was fully qualified for a residency position, having passed all of the necessary board exams, I was still unable to match into a podiatry residency program.

I was very saddened by this, and made it my goal in this next year to match into a residency program. I participated in a perceptorship in New Jersey, and visited as many podiatry residency programs in the area (NYC, NJ, PA) as possible. For 6 months I visited programs, which is very expensive, especially visiting NYC, when I don't have a job. I made sure to prove myself, and show the residents and program director that I was even better and more experienced than the batch of incoming podiatry graduates. I always offered to stay later, and help as much as possible. I could not extern at any programs because I did not have a job, and Kent State would not help me with the malpractice insurance costs of an externship.

I still did my absolute best and got 9 interviews, 10 if you count the post Crip interview with South Nassou. And I made sure to do amazing on the interviews. I made sure to be extremely enthusiastic, a hard worker, knowledgeable, adaptable and easy to work with. But I still did not match into a program.

I do not have the best grades, but I hoped with an incredible work ethic, and proving myself during the visit, that could make up for it. Sadly, I was mistaken.

I have spent all of this past year unemployed, visiting and volunteering at programs as much as possible, and now that I am still unmatched, I realize that my podiatry career is most likely over, without ever really getting a chance to prove myself. Programs will not grant someone with my GPA an interview without at least visiting, and I cannot afford to visit for any decent amount of time any longer.

I have already passed my boards part 3, and have an active license in Pennsylvania. But without a residency diploma, the Pennsylvania license means nothing. I now owe a massive amount in debt, and currently have no way of fully paying it off. I fear that I will carry this debt with me for the rest of my life.

Only a small percentage of podiatry graduates end up like me, but it is extremely frustrating and horrifying that I spent all this time, effort, and money to get a podiatry degree, and it means almost nothing.

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[Unmatched Pod Grad]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...2nd-year-preceptorship-still-nothing.1030428/

And I am definitely not the only podiatry graduate in this situation.

 

[Unmatched Pod Grad]

Dr. Albright posted this in PMNews

From: Estelle Albright, DPM

I am both saddened and upset that the podiatry schools continue to enroll far more students than there are residency positions. The fault rests squarely on the shoulders of the podiatry colleges. This has been going on since I graduated 20+ years ago, when some of my classmates did not get a residency. CCPM, however, reported that, "all graduates who 'wanted' a residency were placed, as a way of covering up the fact that they were graduating some unmatched students into an uncertain, and limited, future. Every podiatry school should start enrolling 10% fewer than they are currently doing. But, sadly, I don't see that happening any time soon.

Estelle Albright, DPM, Indianapolis, IN

 

[SLCpod]

This is sad.

A few questions:
1- What's your GPA (low, but how low)?
2- Did you pass boards first time?
3- How many programs did you rank your first and second times?
4- What happened in your externships that would have led to the programs not selecting you?

In order for pre-pods and current students to fully comprehend the situation it would be most ideal to know more about you. It's certainly easier to say how bad the CPME is compared to saying what mistakes you may have made.

Your quote from Dr. Albright seems out of date. Maybe it's not but could you give a date on that?

 

[Unmatched Pod Grad]

1- What's your GPA (low, but how low)?
About 2.5

2- Did you pass boards first time?
Failed first time, passed 2nd time

3- How many programs did you rank your first and second times?
Ranked almost all the programs 1st and 2nd time. I ranked all the programs that granted me interviews, and almost all of the remaining programs.

4- What happened in your externships that would have led to the programs not selecting you?
In my opinion, I performed very well. The chief resident at one of the programs I externed at called me, and told me all the residents really liked me, and to make sure to rank his program. But I think my GPA hurts my chances.

5- I found Dr. Albright's post in the March 26th, 2015 PMNews.

 

[Shireiqiang]

If you want to be a non-surgical podiatrist in Pennsylvania, is it possible without a residency? If you are licensed what restrictions do you face?

Your post really struck me, I hope you can catch a break in the future. It is crazy to see this happening. I'm sorry to hear your situation.

 

[Mad Jack]

You should have applied far more broadly than just the most competitive region in the country, particularly with your GPA.

 

[heybrother]

You should have applied far more broadly than just the most competitive region in the country, particularly with your GPA.

In a strange twist of fate, east coast/NY city is not competitive in the podiatry world. The vast majority of scramble programs, year after year, are in NYC.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

After reading this and related posts, I've decided to attend a DO SMP rather than pursue podiatry. I cancelled my interview at Barry and will cancel Temple's. Also weighing on my decision - after bringing a thank you gift on the last day, sending 7 reminder emails and texts about an LOR, I finally heard back from the pod I shadowed and she used the word "donation" in return for an LOR. Unreal. Obviously, I won't be replying.

 

[Biomechanix]

After reading this and related posts, I've decided to attend a DO SMP rather than pursue podiatry. I cancelled my interview at Barry and will cancel Temple's. Also weighing on my decision - after bringing a thank you gift on the last day, sending 7 reminder emails and texts about an LOR, I finally heard back from the pod I shadowed and she used the word "donation" in return for an LOR. Unreal. Obviously, I won't be replying.

Your situation was very unfortunate in regards to the pod LOR. My experience was completely different as I shadowed three pods of which all had offered to write a LOR. One of which provided me his written LOR the very next day after my request. Of all the medical professionals I've shadowed, the pods were the most friendly and went above and beyond to make sure I had a good shadowing experience. Was the podiatrist you shadowed the only one available in your area? If so, then I can understand how frustrating your experience must have been and wish you great success in whichever path you pursue.

To the OP, I have to ask why your GPA was so low as to make sure I do not put myself in the same situation. Did your stats entering podiatry school barely meet the minimum requirements? Was the medical education beyond your capabilities? What about the length of time adjusting to the volume of information? Did you seek additional help or did you feel that the school did not do enough to provide you with such resources? You said that you had worked hard to make sure that you'd get into a residency the second time, but at this point, isn't being diligent and hardworking expected from all students? I don't see how this would guarantee a residency position even if you might feel that the residents enjoy working with you. The residency programs have to consider the risks with each resident as their reputation is on the line. To me, a 2.5 and failing boards the first time seems like a huge red flag. Please correct me and my assumptions I've gathered from SDN as I am just a lowly pre-pod.

 

[Gigantron]

Honestly, reading this post only motivates me further to make sure I never end up like the OP.

 

[torontopharm]

.

 

[KSUCPM2015]

To the OP, I have to ask why your GPA was so low as to make sure I do not put myself in the same situation. Did your stats entering podiatry school barely meet the minimum requirements? Was the medical education beyond your capabilities? What about the length of time adjusting to the volume of information? Did you seek additional help or did you feel that the school did not do enough to provide you with such resources? You said that you had worked hard to make sure that you'd get into a residency the second time, but at this point, isn't being diligent and hardworking expected from all students? I don't see how this would guarantee a residency position even if you might feel that the residents enjoy working with you. The residency programs have to consider the risks with each resident as their reputation is on the line. To me, a 2.5 and failing boards the first time seems like a huge red flag. Please correct me and my assumptions I've gathered from SDN as I am just a lowly pre-pod.

I'm wondering if the OP has any F's or rotation re-takes or any other blemishes on his/her record. This is an extremely sad situation but this pre-pod brings up many great points. As this is on the pre-pod thread, I would suggest that those prospective students treat this as a cautionary tale rather than a warning sign that this is a unique problem to podiatry. If you read into the thread that was linked you'll see someone who seriously calls into question that poster's ability. You can't get by in podiatry just by being a good hard-working and caring person. You have to actually learn, refine, and maintain skills and do well in classes and on boards.

 

[dyk343]

Today's lesson: Grades do matter

 

[Shireiqiang]

I don't think a 2.5 GPA, or not passing boards first try are as big of a deal as some may believe. There are many programs that don't look at grades that closely. I felt like a few programs I clerked at based their opinion solely on what I showed them when I was at their program. I had multiple programs offer me spots even though I am a very average student. What I did, was read a ton of articles, took call every weekend, rounded on weekends. Prepared for the questions I was going to be asked. I made sure I had an article that came from the program well reviewed. I left my family behind for months at a time. I put everything I had into matching. After all of that I still feel lucky to have got my number 1 choice. I have seen some of the top 10 students from my school sit out a year while the bottom feeders matched good programs. Grades are important, but actually proving your knowledge and ability is more important.

 

[dyk343]

Our #1 pick didn't have the highest GPA of our applicants (still a decent gpa though). We ranked this person because we liked this certain individual's personality. So personality does matter.

But after that we pretty much ranked students on gpa alone.

Grades do matter.

 

[pipetman]

Did your program have a GPA requirement?

 

[ldsrmdude]

Our #1 pick didn't have the highest GPA of our applicants (still a decent gpa though). We ranked this person because we liked this certain individual's personality. So personality does matter.

But after that we pretty much ranked students on gpa alone.

Grades do matter.

This pretty much sums it up. Personality and grades both matter. The ideal candidate has a great GPA and a great personality. A great personality and work ethic can make a program overlook a lower, but still decent, GPA.

 

[ldsrmdude]

I don't think a 2.5 GPA, or not passing boards first try are as big of a deal as some may believe.

Every program is different, but both of those things you mentioned would essentially automatically bump you out of the running at several programs, the program I am at included. If a student finds themselves in either (or both) of those scenarios, being realistic about which programs you extern at and apply to and interview with would be my best advice.

 

[dyk343]

Did your program have a GPA requirement?

3.0

 

[W19]

Not to stir the pot or anything, but what realistic employment options does an unmatched pod grad have?
Unmatched allo/DO grads can still do a transitional year i believe...or try becoming a PA in Missouri or Arkansas or even apply for medical assistant/pharmaceutical industry jobs etc.
Even bolting to another country probably wouldn't be an option..considering that pods make much less in other parts of the world compared to here in North America.

Just looking to learn more about the situation that's all

Unmatched MD/DO can do a transitional year with which they can get an unrestricted license in some (or most) states if they are AMG, but their employment prospect will be severely limited... They might be able to work in county heath department, prison system etc... They will struggle financially if they have big loan like most US med students because these jobs pay <120k/year...

 

[DPMace]

Sad story... but i think the residency shortage will be worse this year.

 

[SandersCalc]

Sad story... but i think the residency shortage will be worse this year.

Meaning for class of 2015 or 2016? What's your reasoning?

 

[AttackNME]

I get that APMA wanted every residency to be a 3 year program so that other medical professions better understand what we do and the extent of our training. The sad part is that a lot of residents don't really want 3 years of training. There is a great need for non-surgical work, and it is ridiculous to have to do 3 years of surgical training in order to achieve that type of practice. It also dilutes the experience of those that do infact want to do surgery when you have programs triple scrubbing their residents in order to meet numbers. I hope in the future, APMA will care less about what other professions think about podiatry, and care more about what they can do to optimize their future podiatrists to be prepared for both the surgical and non-surgical aspects of podiatry. /endrant

 

[PatchAdamsFan]

I hope in the future, APMA will care less about what other professions think about podiatry

Pretty sure that is a large part of their mission statement.

 

[ldsrmdude]

I get that APMA wanted every residency to be a 3 year program so that other medical professions better understand what we do and the extent of our training. The sad part is that a lot of residents don't really want 3 years of training. There is a great need for non-surgical work, and it is ridiculous to have to do 3 years of surgical training in order to achieve that type of practice. It also dilutes the experience of those that do infact want to do surgery when you have programs triple scrubbing their residents in order to meet numbers. I hope in the future, APMA will care less about what other professions think about podiatry, and care more about what they can do to optimize their future podiatrists to be prepared for both the surgical and non-surgical aspects of podiatry. /endrant

I certainly don't claim to know all that many residents, but I've never met a resident or a student that doesn't want 3 years of training. More and more residents are looking for even more training. I'm sure there are some, but I would think it's very few.


I'm not sure what you mean when you say residents are triple scrubbing to get their numbers. Maybe my brain just isn't working right tonight, but I don't see how residents triple scrubbing helps them get their numbers if only 1 of them is taking the first assist on the case. I'm sure I'm just being stupid, but can you explain it?

 

[AttackNME]

I certainly don't claim to know all that many residents, but I've never met a resident or a student that doesn't want 3 years of training. More and more residents are looking for even more training. I'm sure there are some, but I would think it's very few.


I'm not sure what you mean when you say residents are triple scrubbing to get their numbers. Maybe my brain just isn't working right tonight, but I don't see how residents triple scrubbing helps them get their numbers if only 1 of them is taking the first assist on the case. I'm sure I'm just being stupid, but can you explain it?

I may be wrong, i'm only venting, and I don't know how those programs log their cases when there are 3 residents scrubbed but you're right only one of them gets to log as first assist. But the bottom line is this: Attendings will let you do more only as they get more comfortable with you and get an idea of your skill level. When there are so many podiatry residents scrubbed into one case and everyone wants a piece of that toe or foot, it'll dilute the experience of the person who is supposed to be primary. The other thing is that I don't think the current standards for meeting the minimum will adequately prepare you to do rearfoot cases. It should be at least double that, but i can't imagine the APMA being ready to do that when we are already struggling to have enough spots for graduates.

There are people who still want to do old school podiatry and are less interested in surgery. Obviously they are not going to broadcast it to the world when most of podiatry is pushing towards more training. There needs to be separate tracks for pods with different goals, otherwise if everyone wants to do surgery and neglect the podiatric care part of it, we'll be seeing other professions lobbying for rights to start doing what we are not doing. Obviously i'm only speculating as i'm still in my residency and can only speak for the very limited exposure I have to the real world but this is what i'm sensing right now

 

[ldsrmdude]

I may be wrong, i'm only venting, and I don't know how those programs log their cases when there are 3 residents scrubbed but you're right only one of them gets to log as first assist. But the bottom line is this: Attendings will let you do more only as they get more comfortable with you and get an idea of your skill level. When there are so many podiatry residents scrubbed into one case and everyone wants a piece of that toe or foot, it'll dilute the experience of the person who is supposed to be primary. The other thing is that I don't think the current standards for meeting the minimum will adequately prepare you to do rearfoot cases. It should be at least double that, but i can't imagine the APMA being ready to do that when we are already struggling to have enough spots for graduates.

I completely agree with what you're saying. I've never triple-scrubbed a case, but have seen it done a few times as a student and it seems pretty worthless for all involved. As an aside, I don't think it's the APMA, but the CPME that would be able to do anything in terms of changing the numbers.

There are people who still want to do old school podiatry and are less interested in surgery. Obviously they are not going to broadcast it to the world when most of podiatry is pushing towards more training. There needs to be separate tracks for pods with different goals, otherwise if everyone wants to do surgery and neglect the podiatric care part of it, we'll be seeing other professions lobbying for rights to start doing what we are not doing. Obviously i'm only speculating as i'm still in my residency and can only speak for the very limited exposure I have to the real world but this is what i'm sensing right now

I've never been (and probably never will be) in favor of separate tracks for residencies personally, but I know there are quite a few people who are. The fact is that most residents that graduate will be doing less surgery than they were in residency and will be doing more routine care and office procedures than they were in residency. That's just sort of the way it usually works. And I don't really think there is anything wrong with that per se.

 

[DPMace]

Meaning for class of 2015 or 2016? What's your reasoning?

more podiatry students will graduate in 2016 than 2015. So far only 1 new residency program is opening, and many reidency programs close, or just stop taking residents. Nobody knows why these programs stop taking residents, but it happens often.

 

[theaznfishy]

The residency shortage was presented to us in a meeting where the Pennsylvania branch president for a lobbying group told us there are actually less students graduating pod schools than a decade ago. The balancing act comes into play with residences. If you don't have enough students graduating schools, unused residency programs shut down, then there's the other side of the coin where schools accept too many students and you don't have enough supply to meet the demand.

For the OP, as much as your work ethic is admirable, I have to ask what your ranking was. Temple managed to get 100% match rate (and to my understanding other schools had 100% as well. Did you ask your interview sites why they didn't accept you? My understanding is that most programs will tell you why they didn't take you or what your weakness is in. Is there any way to supplement a 2.5 gpa in a positive manner academically? Not to sound harsh, but a 2.5 gpa is a bit of a glaring issue that should have been addressed by an academic advisor or someone at Kent. How many retakes did you have to do during your time at kent? I know at some point people say grades don't matter, but that's always under the assumption you had "decent grades".