Unsolicited Advice For Incoming Students

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
IndustryPharmD said:
I personally never skipped class unless it was a worthless undergrad class like sociology.
Click to expand...

I learned a lot in Soc... just kidding.

But he was my favorite professor. the concrete sciences have the lamest profs hahahah...
Members don't see this ad.
 
74777 said:
Hmm... I usually earned the highest grades in the classes I took -- literally. For example, in one of my general chemistry classes I ranked second out of a class of roughly 600 students at a respectable university. In my calculus class (for engineering majors), my professor congratulated me face-to-face for attaining the highest overall grade at the end of the quarter. In biology, I was emailed by one of my professors, who let me know that I had the highest grade in his class. These weren't the only instances.

Wouldn't it make sense for it to be easier to be at the top of your class in pharmacy school? In undergraduate classes, you're competing with some of the most competitive students out there -- pre-medical, engineering, etc. With all due respect to pre-pharmacy students, in pharmacy school those die-hard competitive students are gone, for the most part! I actually was ready to apply to medical school because I was confident in my academics, but medicine is not the same as pharmacy.

On average, the performance of students as a whole will be better in pharmacy school.
Click to expand...

Lol. Undergrad in the US is so easy, I can't believe it's university level material. Calculous? Thats math taught in junior high in china. :laugh: Even MCAT wasn't hard besides the English, got 32 on it with a month worth of prep.

Most of the undergrads have average intelligence and are going to school for the parties. Being at the top of the class is a given for any decent student. Pharmacy and medical schools are different. Those highly competitive students are certainly not gone. Finally, even a good student will find there are several others who are worthy competitors. I love it, competition is healthy and foster greater growth in general.
 
Last edited:
xiphoid2010 said:
Lol. Undergrad in the US is so easy, I can't believe it's university level material. Calculous? Thats math taught in junior high in china. :laugh: Even MCAT wasn't hard besides the English, got 32 on it with a month worth of prep.

Most of the undergrads have average intelligence and are going to school for the parties. Being at the top of the class is a given for any decent student. Pharmacy and medical schools are different. Those highly competitive students are certainly not gone. Finally, even a good student will find there are several others who are worthy competitors. I love it, competition is healthy and foster greater growth in general.
Click to expand...

I'm saying that the highest-ranking students in an undergraduate class are usually the students who flock to medical schools. I've seen it firsthand. I'm generalizing ofc.

Yep, competition can be healthy.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
xiphoid2010 said:
Lol. Undergrad in the US is so easy, I can't believe it's university level material. Calculous? Thats math taught in junior high in china. :laugh: Even MCAT wasn't hard besides the English, got 32 on it with a month worth of prep.

Most of the undergrads have average intelligence and are going to school for the parties. Being at the top of the class is a given for any decent student. Pharmacy and medical schools are different. Those highly competitive students are certainly not gone. Finally, even a good student will find there are several others who are worthy competitors. I love it, competition is healthy and foster greater growth in general.
Click to expand...

I would definetly agree that a lot of undergrads are not vey academic, but hey, if your taking in that much debt for a useless piece of paper (disney land degrees), you may as well enjoy your stay...
 
LazyMooch said:
I would definetly agree that a lot of undergrads are not vey academic, but hey, if your taking in that much debt for a useless piece of paper (disney land degrees), you may as well enjoy your stay...
Click to expand...

Undergrad here is really just a giant money making scheme to trick people out of their money. The material taught is so shallow and non-specific that it's inadequate for any real job unless you take on graduate school. And I think the admission process in the US foster that waste. What's the point of a "higher" education if every one with a 2.0 GPA can get in one? Any is there any wonder why most of the the students are a bunch of slackers?

When I was a boy in china, only the few top students were admitted to universities, and the rest were offered community college/trade schools or nothing further. But for the smart few admitted, university was free, paid by the government, and well paid high level jobs were guaranteed at graduation. (unfortunately they went to a money grabbing system like the US, now there are tens of millions of university students, but no jobs).

By limiting universities to only those who qualify would cut down the education cost big time and more of a meritocracy than a system that anyone who can borrow student loans can get in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
xiphoid2010 said:
Undergrad here is really just a giant money making scheme to trick people out of their money. The material taught is so shallow and non-specific that it doesn't prepare you for any real job. And I think the admission process in the US foster that waste. What's the point of a "higher" education if every one with a 2.0 GPA can get in one?

When I was a boy in china, only the few top students were admitted to universities, and the rest were offered community college/trade schools or nothing further. But for the smart few admitted, university was free, paid by the government, and well paid high level jobs were guaranteed at graduation.

By limiting universities to only those who qualify would cut down the education cost big time and more of a meritocracy than a system that anyone who can borrow student loans can get in.
Click to expand...

The problem is that the bachelor's degree has replaced the high school diploma in many instances here. It doesn't matter so much what your degree is in, so long as you have one for a lot of jobs. I agree that it's silly (and many who attend universities would be better served by attending trade schools and actually learning a marketable skill) but our entire educational system would need to be overhauled if we were to restrict access to universities to the best and brightest. I certainly wouldn't have a problem with that, but with our current budget woes I seriously doubt the money or political will exists to make it happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Honestly, pharmacy school is harder than most undergraduate programs. However, when compared to other professional and academic fields, it is one of the shortest and easiest. Pharmacy only takes 4 years (not including prereqs), while medical and dental require a bachelor's degree as a prereq (..yes there are some rare loopholes). Academic graduate school takes much longer is is much harder in the respect that you have to drive yourself to the goal. Pharmacy school is pretty much already set up for you. You just have to jump through the hoops and get the diploma.

So, overall, don't be worried too much about entering pharmacy school. It is a piece of cake. The schedule is set for you and it is one of the quickest degrees in terms of total time in college. Also, you don't need a residency to begin practicing. There is nothing to worry about.
 
xiphoid2010 said:
Undergrad here is really just a giant money making scheme to trick people out of their money. The material taught is so shallow and non-specific that it's inadequate for any real job unless you take on graduate school. And I think the admission process in the US foster that waste. What's the point of a "higher" education if every one with a 2.0 GPA can get in one? Any is there any wonder why most of the the students are a bunch of slackers?

When I was a boy in china, only the few top students were admitted to universities, and the rest were offered community college/trade schools or nothing further. But for the smart few admitted, university was free, paid by the government, and well paid high level jobs were guaranteed at graduation. (unfortunately they went to a money grabbing system like the US, now there are tens of millions of university students, but no jobs).

By limiting universities to only those who qualify would cut down the education cost big time and more of a meritocracy than a system that anyone who can borrow student loans can get in.
Click to expand...

I could go back and forth on this. I had a 2.3 at a public high school and scraped into undergrad. I think the only reason I got in was my 1910 SAT score. Now that I've decided on a direction I'm in the top ten of my class and expect to get into my pharm school of choice.

The good thing about undergrad is the second chance it provides to us high school "slackers".

However, it is also a huge money suck in terms of tuition and lost opportunity cost. This is why it blows my mind when people on this forum advocate making a Bachelor's a requirement. **** that ****.
 
LazyMooch said:
I could go back and forth on this. I had a 2.3 at a public high school and scraped into undergrad. I think the only reason I got in was my 1910 SAT score. Now that I've decided on a direction I'm in the top ten of my class and expect to get into my pharm school of choice.

The good thing about undergrad is the second chance it provides to us high school "slackers".

However, it is also a huge money suck in terms of tuition and lost opportunity cost. This is why it blows my mind when people on this forum advocate making a Bachelor's a requirement. **** that ****.
Click to expand...

For each slacker doing a 180, there are 99 who stay that way. Public policies are often just like medicine, you don't build the solution around saving the few rare exceptions, because it's not cost effective or has too much side effects.

Especially with all the diploma mills admitting everybody with a pulse into pharmacy school, it would be a good idea to make a bachelors a requirement, like some of the better pharmacy schools already do. Ideally I would like the system I mentioned earlier, only admit the top students and make it a full scholarship ride. Of course that would be tough in this country. Lol, but a minimum GPA and PCAT score could certainly be set.
 
Last edited:
xiphoid2010 said:
For each slacker doing a 180, there are 99 who stay that way. Public policies are often just like medicine, you don't build the solution around saving the few rare exceptions, because it's not cost effective or has too much side effects.

Especially with all the diploma mills admitting everybody with a pulse into pharmacy school, it would be a good idea to make a bachelors a requirement, like some of the better pharmacy schools already do. Ideally I would like the system I mentioned earlier, only admit the top students and make it a full scholarship ride.
Click to expand...

The majority of top high school students I knew of were:

A) the product of their parents ambition.
B) socially inept.

Maybe they streamline maturity in China, but in America, most of us don't know what the **** we want, even well into college.

I could provide the counter point that GPA may be a poor indication of "top student". I didn't like busy work and so the assignment portion of my high school grades was terrible. It dropped my GPA drastically. College, which is much more heavily exam based, has been a joke compared to high school for me.

Does that make me a better student? No. I just test well. However, that is the method by which they rank us. Convenient for me? Yes. Convenient for the girl who throws up in the bathroom before class due to test anxiety? Definitely not.

Also... Americah, **** Yeah!
 
LazyMooch said:
Maybe they streamline maturity in China, but in America, most of us don't know what the **** we want, even well into college.
Click to expand...

The value system is different. Education is of top importance in Chinese society. Teachers in the US are treated like crap, but they are treated with more respect than doctors in china. Study hard, work hard, have a successful life is pretty much the universal belief there. And the focus is almost entirely on math and sciences, the traditional subjects that are useful for jobs. The down side is while Chinese students are very effiecient, they are not well rounded or creative.

LazyMooch said:
I could provide the counter point that GPA may be a poor indication of "top student". I didn't like busy work and so the assignment portion of my high school grades was terrible. It dropped my GPA drastically. College, which is much more heavily exam based, has been a joke compared to high school for me.
Click to expand...

GPA and test score are not perfect but they are objective and fair, certainly better than any excuses like "I didn't do my homework because I dont like busy work." To me that shows lack of responsibility and self-discipline. And if someone still cant overcome test anxieties by college, they need to solve that first. MDs and patients want the right answers, they don't care if the pharmacist has anxiety issues, neither do Naplex and mpje. :laugh:
 
xiphoid2010 said:
Advantages of Toughing it out:
1. greater depth of understanding, GPA, internship experience, leadership. Keep options open and put you ahead of your classmates when it's time to compete.

2. Less student loans. Great GPA gets you scholarship $, internship pays for the living cost, less partying and games cuts down on expenditures.

3. Time management skills and self-disipline. Both are extremely useful in life, residency or not.
Click to expand...

Some people can get those things while still not focusing on school 100% all of the time. I'm not saying that taking nights off and going out makes it easy to get all of the things you listed, but it can help prevent burn out.

I managed to go out/hang out with friends, work a couple days a week, have leadership positions in organizations I cared about, and do well in school. The time I spent pursuing non-pharmacy activities gave me something else to talk about at my residency interviews. I made some great friends and kept my relationship strong. Taking the time off forced me to manage my time to get all of that done. You can schedule the fun time in if you're that organized. Even as a resident I take time for myself and outside activities. You only live once, right?

I think I'm just trying to say that "toughing it out" isn't the only way to get the things you listed. I'm not saying blow off all of your work and get drunk every night.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
ucrx said:
I think I'm just trying to say that "toughing it out" isn't the only way to get the things you listed. I'm not saying blow off all of your work and get drunk every night.
Click to expand...

Sure, if you can do a stellar job covering all of those and still have time left for parties, more power to you. I could have studied half as much and settled for a 3.5 GPA, but it's just not my style to settle for less. Going that extra distance probably didn't make much of a difference, but why bet my future career on it?

You are right, you only live once, so no room for regrets. And the thing that I dread the most is regretting not tried my best to contribute something noteworthy and lasting to society, leaving life meaningless.
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
xiphoid2010 said:
And the thing that I dread the most is regretting not tried my best to contribute something noteworthy and lasting to society, leaving life meaningless.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, I'm sensing a culture divide between us hahaha. It's strange to see such a radically different thought process.

For me, I'm getting into pharmacy to get mine for myself and my family. My sphere of influence is home to only my blood and my close community. My responsibility to them overides any sense of patriotism or globalism.
 
owlegrad said:
So any more advice for new pharmacy students?
Click to expand...

Good call getting this back on topic...

As an incoming P1, you mean we should start finding a place for the internships in the summer after our first year right away?
 
owlegrad said:
So any more advice for new pharmacy students?
Click to expand...

On the contrary I think this thread has maintained its course of being on topic. The differences in educational systems not only explains what is wrong with the American Education System, but also highlights what successful students should develop to continue their success in pharmacy school.

I'm truly a big fan of xiphoid's advice. If you truly want to be successful in pharmacy school, you have to make it your priority and make a lot of sacrifices. You have to work harder then your competitors and classmates. Yes a lot of students are naturally gifted but these are the big leagues, everyone in pharmacy school is smarter then your average joe. You are in the smartest 10% of the country(an estimate). If you want to separate yourself from the rest of the pack, you have to be smart.
 
atpsynthase said:
Good call getting this back on topic...

As an incoming P1, you mean we should start finding a place for the internships in the summer after our first year right away?
Click to expand...

You need to look immediately. Hell, look now! As the poster said above, the sooner the better. It won't be as easy come the middle or end of the school year. Everyone will be looking then; especially for a summer position.
 
atpsynthase said:
Good call getting this back on topic...

As an incoming P1, you mean we should start finding a place for the internships in the summer after our first year right away?
Click to expand...




This is probably one advice I will give to any P1 student, find an intern job as soon as possible. I regretted not working in pharmacy school.
 
As for Chinese vs. American education system, yes there is a big difference in focus. The American college system was traditionally based on broadening your knowledge (being a "scholar"); hence the "liberal arts" degree and the general education requirements. College was meant for scholars, researchers, and (of course) "professional" careers like doctors, lawyers, etc.

Now people are supposed to have a career path in mind to include higher degrees in order to get a good, high paying job. Also, now there is an emphasis on EVERYONE going to college to accomplish that. I don't believe college is for everyone...I have said before that vocational programs and community colleges are greatly overlooked as paths to a good career.
 
Quiksilver said:
On the contrary I think this thread has maintained its course of being on topic. The differences in educational systems not only explains what is wrong with the American Education System, but also highlights what successful students should develop to continue their success in pharmacy school.

I'm truly a big fan of xiphoid's advice. If you truly want to be successful in pharmacy school, you have to make it your priority and make a lot of sacrifices. You have to work harder then your competitors and classmates. Yes a lot of students are naturally gifted but these are the big leagues, everyone in pharmacy school is smarter then your average joe. You are in the smartest 10% of the country(an estimate). If you want to separate yourself from the rest of the pack, you have to be smart.
Click to expand...

How do I become smart if I'm not already? How can I be sure that I'm not smart to begin with? 0.0
 
Quiksilver said:
On the contrary I think this thread has maintained its course of being on topic. The differences in educational systems not only explains what is wrong with the American Education System, but also highlights what successful students should develop to continue their success in pharmacy school.

I'm truly a big fan of xiphoid's advice. If you truly want to be successful in pharmacy school, you have to make it your priority and make a lot of sacrifices. You have to work harder then your competitors and classmates. Yes a lot of students are naturally gifted but these are the big leagues, everyone in pharmacy school is smarter then your average joe. You are in the smartest 10% of the country(an estimate). If you want to separate yourself from the rest of the pack, you have to be smart.
Click to expand...

What is smart about memorizing loads of information? You just have to be organized and dedicated. Just like the little engine that could, you have to chug along until you reach the finish line. If you want to be intelligent, go to graduate school for theoretical physics.
 
atpsynthase said:
Good call getting this back on topic...

As an incoming P1, you mean we should start finding a place for the internships in the summer after our first year right away?
Click to expand...

Yes, the sooner the better. If your school has a job fair (I think most do?) take advantage of that. Some huge percent of my class got their summer internships through that venue.
 
A lot of good advice in this thread. I agree with most of it. I'd like to add to the discussion.

Don't be a whiner

If there was one thing I noticed throughout pharmacy school and my internship, it was that pharmacists tend to be whiny. Whether it be a student complaining about test questions to a pharmacist groaning about some new policy change at work, pharmacists tend to #&$^ and moan about the most trivial crap. Sack up, you're studying for a career or actually practicing in a field that guarantees you a salary that puts you in the top 5 % of Americans. Whining is a very, very negative personality trait. Academically, it does not reflect well upon you to your professors, preceptors, pharmacists-in-charge, etc. Remember that what you do in P1 year can affect you when you go to apply for residencies, internships, jobs, etc.

Learn to find a school/work + life balance. Contrary to what Xiphoid is saying, I'm pretty sure 99 % of people would go insane trying to abide by the "all work and no play" theory. There was never a man on his deathbed who said "I wish I would have worked more." Study enough so that you can master the material, do well on the exam, and get good grades. The difference between a 3.0 and a 4.0 GPA in pharmacy is merely a reflection of your ego. Maybe you'll net a couple $1000 scholarships.....most of these scholarships are hard to come by in pharmacy-land, and quite frankly with the amount of loans you'll incur as well as your future earning potential.....those couple extra scholarships will be a drop in the bucket. Now if you want a residency, GPA might be a bit more important....but I know plenty of high-GPA students who were completely inept socially who didn't match, and lower performers who did well on rotations and could fit in well with a working environment who matched. So basically, study enough for you do as well as you feel you need to do.

Party hard after a series of exams. Set aside a night to party with your pharmacy friends (this requires being social; important), AND also a night to hang out with your non-pharmacy friends. You need to escape from the world of drugs and disease, and when you're with these people, don't talk about pharmacy.

That's about all I got.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Great advice Fox, although I hate to give credit to a fellow predator.


EDIT: Really great advice though. I couldn't agree more to your balanced and reasonable advice.
 
Last edited:
owlegrad said:
Great advice Fox, although I hate to give credit to a fellow predator.

But I just want to point out that 95% of Americans are in the top 95% of Americans. That would only leave out the bottom 5%.

EDIT: Really great advice though. I couldn't agree more to your balanced and reasonable advice.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Fixed the goof :) So did you go to Temple or Florida Atlantic btw? I know they both have the Owl as a mascot.
 
GreyFox2002 said:
Thanks. Fixed the goof :) So did you go to Temple or Florida Atlantic btw? I know they both have the Owl as a mascot.
Click to expand...

Sigh. No.

It's owle. Don't sweat it though, that is a common mistake. Webster made it as well.

I am a gator in that I go to UF. I am not nor have I ever attended a school that has an owle as a mascot. I can see how my username and avatar could be misleading though. It is not based on any academic affiliation.
 
This is all really helpful advice and should really help out when starting class this fall. Great thread, guys....thanks!
 
74777 said:
How do I become smart if I'm not already? How can I be sure that I'm not smart to begin with? 0.0
Click to expand...

I should have chosed my words carefully. Intelligence is something that should be innate in all pharmacy students. Whether you like it or not, you have to be successful (somewhat) in the physical sciences of biology, chemistry and physics to get into pharmacy school. To separate yourself, you have to be devoted, hardworking and learn for the sake of learning The more exposure and understanding you get from the topics covered, the more successful you'll be.

RxMTM said:
What is smart about memorizing loads of information? You just have to be organized and dedicated. Just like the little engine that could, you have to chug along until you reach the finish line. If you want to be intelligent, go to graduate school for theoretical physics.
Click to expand...

Okay. You could memorize or you can learn. Sure you can memorize what side effect a drug causes, or you could memorize what are the monitoring parameters, but doesn't it make sense, and doesn't it make it easier to learn these things if you learn the pharmacology, kinetics, and physiology behind the drug. Then you don't have to memorize. You are right, you do need hard work and dedication, but this is only part of the puzzle. If you don't want to be intelligent, you are marginalizing this profession and are taking it one step closer to extinction.
 
This has to be one of the best threads in this forum. It should be a sticky.

When do you all think I should get a job at a pharmacy? Usciences is starting to interview for the professional phase in our U2 year so I think I should have more pharmacy experience than I have now, which is not much.
 
I'm reading a book right now called 'The Outliers," which tries to explain what makes people extraordinary. It uses examples such as The Beatles, Bill Gates, and other very successful people. So far the book seems to say that its the opportunities and experience that helps people go far. In order words, hard work and dedication are essential to success. I do recommend the book, its fantastic and an easy read.
 
I tried so hard to get an internship after my P1 year at a time when the district intern manager was handing out jobs like halloween candy. I called him again and when I finally could get in touch with him, it turned out another lady took over. This lady told me there were no jobs available, yet the local retail pharmacy near me said there was but I would have to get in touch with her first. Another headache to add to the list.
 
owlegrad said:
You must mean quiz? :eyebrow:

Hard core. Although we have our first quiz at 4:00pm today. :laugh:
Click to expand...

Well, they actually called it an "assessment" and not an exam so now I'm not sure :laugh:

It was 40 questions though, and we needed to make >80% to pass (although we're offered a second attempt if we fail the first). It was pretty easy, just basic math and medical terminology we were supposed to learn this summer. I'll let you decide if that counts as a quiz or an exam :laugh:
 
R2pharmD2 said:
Well, they actually called it an "assessment" and not an exam so now I'm not sure :laugh:

It was 40 questions though, and we needed to make >80% to pass (although we're offered a second attempt if we fail the first). It was pretty easy, just basic math and medical terminology we were supposed to learn this summer. I'll let you decide if that counts as a quiz or an exam :laugh:
Click to expand...

Haha, assessment works. That is pretty long to be called a quiz, but I have a hard time believing it is an actual exam.

Today was a good day. I didn't get called on, but if I had I would have done well. 3/5 on my quiz. Nice to see everyone again. I hope it keeps going this way.
 
SeekerofTruth said:
When do you all think I should get a job at a pharmacy? Usciences is starting to interview for the professional phase in our U2 year so I think I should have more pharmacy experience than I have now, which is not much.
Click to expand...

Any answers?
 
SeekerofTruth said:
Am I allowed to as an undergrad?
Click to expand...

Get a job in a pharmacy? Yes.

You go to a 0-6 year school right? I don't know if you can be an intern, if you have an intern license you can. If you do not have an intern license you cannot. If you have to ask if you have one, you do not (trust me).

You can certainly work as a tech though. You may need to get certified or some such, but you can get a job in a pharmacy, yes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

A
Is this real? 300k income as a pharmacist?
2
Replies
50
Views
6K
pharm B
pharm B
J
Any pharmacist side hustle ideas to get 1099 income (not w2)
Replies
25
Views
3K
RXDOC1986
R
Sparda29
Hospital Pharmacy Practices designed to reduce incoming phone calls and medication requests.
Replies
28
Views
4K
storyhill2
storyhill2
A
Incoming pharmacy student
Replies
36
Views
3K
Apples2Oranges
Apples2Oranges
F
Prior auth job stability with incoming changes to healthcare systems
Replies
8
Views
2K
projektreverb
P
Top