Re-applicant 3.5/30: what went wrong and next steps

[K1NG]

Hey! Looking for some critique and advice after a rough cycle. Need help with where I went wrong and make sure it doesn't happen this cycle. Are there any glaring holes, or anything that pops out in my app? I try to be very well balanced and everything I've been involved in is because I felt strongly about it. Meaning I don't do anything just to boost my app, rather to give back to the community and gain experience/knowledge.

Please don't quote in case I need to edit later

Some background:
FL resident, graduated in 2013. Took a gap year to take the MCAT while continuing to work, volunteer, gain clinical experience, etc.. Wish I could volunteer more but I've had to put in a lot of hours into the family business the past 1.5 years, where I work as a manager.

My stats/ECs when I applied this past cycle:
3.5 gpa (3.85 last 75 credits)
30 MCAT (re-take from 28)
Research: 1.5 years with a few poster presentations
Leadership: 2 years TA, leadership position at a club
Clinical employment: 800 hours ER scribe
Clinical volunteering: 60 hours - active (now 100 hours)
Nonclinical volunteering: 15 hours - active (now 75 hours), 30 hours tutoring disadvantaged children

School list this past cycle (see post #6):
Applied to 18 MD (all complete August to September), and 4 DO (complete November). Received 1 OOS MD interview only which ended in a waitlist (still on it ), no love from state schools. My lack of success with DO is most likely due to a very late app

Things I added that will be on my app for the upcoming cycle:
100 hours volunteering at a free health clinic (still active)
25 hours DO primary care shadowing
30 hours MD specialist shadowing
Re-wrote personal statement
Continue volunteering at other organizations (now I have 75 non-clinical, and 200 total clinical hours)

Personal critique for my unsuccessful app:
Borderline stats
Relatively late app
Low volunteering hours?
Bad PS?

My plans:
A lot of people have said it's not necessary, but being 2 years out of school now, I feel an SMP will benefit me. I only applied to a handful of SMPs (those that have high success rate while applying same year, since I want to get in with this MCAT) and if I don't get accepted to any of them, I'm planning on trying to get CNA certification and work while continuing my other ECs this app cycle.

Any thoughts/advice on what went wrong and my future plans?

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[K1NG]

Oh, by the way, here is my school list for the upcoming cycle (still working on it). If I get accepted into an SMP the list will change as I will filter out the schools that don't accept updates.

MD:
State schools (FIU, UF, FSU, USF, FSU)
Albany
Cooper
Creighton
Drexel
EVMS
GWU
Loyola/Stritch
MCW
NYMC
Oakland
Penn State
Quinnipiac
RFUMS
Rush
Sidney Kimmel / Jefferson
Stony Brook
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Buffalo
SUNY Upstate
Temple
TCMC
Tufts
Tulane
Stony Brook
Vermont
VCU
Western Michigan


DO:
DMU
KCUMB
PCOM
ATSU-SOMA
ATSU-KCOM

 

[GrapesofRath]

An SMP is a horrendous idea if you have a 3.85 gpa over your last 75 credits and your gpa as of now is a 3.5. You have to realize SMPs are last resort for people who just can't bring up their gpas(ie those who have 2.8s). Why is it a last resort? Because it is extremely difficult. Often times you are going to have to do better than average in classes with medical students depending on program. As hard as this sounds it's probably even harder in reality than you might think. Keep in mind median undergrad gpas at many med schools hover around 3.8. That means half the class will have over a 3.8 and you have to beat more than half of them at least and they'll be committed and motivated like never before. It's brital

Even if you are going only against other SMPers expect fierce competition. oh and the classes themselves are a whole different animal than anything in undergrad which your used to.

Now not only is it very fierce competition and hard to do well and beat out gifted medical students, the biggest point is that smps are a HUGE risk, the type you take when you have that 2.8 and have no other hope. If you don't do well in an smp your sunk. No med school will just look over a poor smp as a minor thing. With a 3.5/30 and the fact you were good enough to get wait listed at an MD school do not do an SMP and take such a huge risk where if you don't do well you have really damaged your hopes.


Your list as of now for next year is good but I have to ask where did you apply last year? Because if you applied to similar caliber schools and only got 1 interview out of 18 applications you haven't really done anything that will significantly impeove your application and you might be settings yourself up for a similar application cycle outcome. Now if you applied much more top heavy that's one thing and I would then give this list a go but if not you have to consider waiting a year before applying to beef up your application because some shadowing and volunteering won't make a big difference

 

[GrapesofRath]

I should also clarify you have to do better than ranking in the top half of the class to get the linkage you seek. Much better. Georgetown interview about half their SMPs but only ends up taking about 15-20% of their class from what I gathered researching other threads. That is a lot to hang your head on to bank on doing that well no matter how good a student someone is

Btw if my figure is wrong someone correct me I know the figure of interviewing half their smps is from george towns website but the other stuff is from researching other threads and Not as official

 

[Nysor_bttw]

Your application looks really well fleshed out, and your stats are on the low end but with an upward trend. You could have done better on the second MCAT, but what's done is done. I'm rather surprised you only ended up with one interview. Honestly, something just seems off here. There's either something you're leaving out or you just were not able to convey yourself properly. I mean, you're a Florida resident and got nothing there! Really have people review your personal statement. Make sure you're getting good LORs. The ADCOMs might be able to better pinpoint an issue, but this one is really baffling to me.

 

[K1NG]

The dilemma of a student with borderline stats.. should I take the risk and spend $$$ on an SMP, or roll the dice this cycle and hope I get lucky?

GrapesofRath - I applied to similar schools last year, and I'll be reapplying to most of them this cycle. Aside from beefing my ECs (adding more meaningful volunteering hours, shadowing) and working on my writing (personal statement, secondaries), I feel my numbers is the next step. I do have a strong upward trend but maybe schools want to see another year of that? I understand the risk of an SMP and I'm as hungry as ever so I will definitely do everything I can to succeed in the program. Aside from that, what can I really add to my application at this point? What do you suggest I do for a year if I delay my app? I might have to take the MCAT again since a few schools will require the 2015 exam.


Nysor_bttw - Thanks. That's why I made this thread.. to see if there's anything I'm missing or something I'm looking over. Do you think a late app with my stats and no shadowing is the reason? Maybe low volunteering hours? If you would like to see my PS let me know, I would love some critique. I was very surprised that I didn't hear anything from my state schools. I've known my letter writers for 3 years and took several classes with them so I would be surprised if I have a bad letter.

I've emailed a few schools about my app this month and have heard back from three so far, and I have a couple phone advising appointments next week. Two of the schools said my stats were borderline but within range, my PS was clear, research was good, and said to continue volunteering. One of them also added that obtaining a CNA is strongly recommended to gain direct patient care experiences, which is why I'm considering enrolling in a course this summer and updating schools?

The other (state school) said my "stats and humanism were below average." So I'm thinking my volunteering hours are low? But would that really prevent interviews? Maybe with my numbers everything else is more scrutinized. I more than doubled my clinical hours since last cycle (100 at hospice, 100 at free health clinic, still active at both) and also increased me non-clinical hours from 15 to 75 (still active).

Maybe apply DO more broadly? I have nothing against a DO but there are very few DO programs I like, aside from the A.T. Still schools, DMU, KCUMB, and PCOM.


Here is my school list from this past cycle. MD was complete around August/September and DO was November/December

MD:
State schools (FIU, FAU, USF, FSU, UCF)
Rosalind Franklin
TCMC
Temple
Vermont
NYMC
Quinnipiac
Drexel
Oakland Beaumount
Rush
Penn State
EVMS
VCU

DO:
DMU
PCOM
NSUCOM
ATSU-KCOM

 

[Nysor_bttw]

Still doesn't make sense. The only thing I could see is maybe the lack of shadowing, but you have fixed that, as well as continued to volunteer. If there are any gaps, you've filled them. I would say you're good for another application round but, just as it was for me, there is something that is shutting you out that people just can't put their finger on. Of course, I ended up getting accepted. I am more than willing to look at your statement, just know that I am far from a professional reviewer!

Really, you look good. Your MCAT could be 1 or 2 points higher, but you're far from a poor applicant.

 

[K1NG]

I guess it was just my luck. There was a pretty big increase in applicants last cycle due to changes in the MCAT from what I've heard, and that might be a reason as well. I do hope my additions are good enough for this cycle. For what it's worth, I was averaging just over a 31, but I managed to bomb my strongest section, BS. Hit my average on PS, and my VR was great so I was happy with it.

Thanks for the encouragement! I'll send you my PS through PM once I get out of work

 

[K1NG]

Any other opinions on possible holes in my app or suggestions in general?

 

[Goro]

Apply early and broadly to DO schools.

For MD schools, if you haven't done so already, in vest in MSAR Online and target only those schools whose median stats are closest to your own, like the Philly Triplets, VCU, and the newer schools (except Hofstra).

Hey! Looking for some critique and advice after a rough cycle. Need help with where I went wrong and make sure it doesn't happen this cycle. Are there any glaring holes, or anything that pops out in my app? I try to be very well balanced and everything I've been involved in is because I felt strongly about it. Meaning I don't do anything just to boost my app, rather to give back to the community and gain experience/knowledge.

Please don't quote in case I need to edit later

Some background:
FL resident, graduated in 2013. Took a gap year to take the MCAT while continuing to work, volunteer, gain clinical experience, etc.. Wish I could volunteer more but I've had to put in a lot of hours into the family business the past 1.5 years, where I work as a manager.

My stats/ECs when I applied this past cycle:
3.5 gpa (3.85 last 75 credits)
30 MCAT (re-take from 28)
Research: 1.5 years with a few poster presentations
Leadership: 2 years TA, leadership position at a club
Clinical employment: 800 hours ER scribe
Clinical volunteering: 60 hours - active (now 100 hours)
Nonclinical volunteering: 15 hours - active (now 75 hours), 30 hours tutoring disadvantaged children

School list this past cycle (see post #6):
Applied to 18 MD (all complete August to September), and 4 DO (complete November). Received 1 OOS MD interview only which ended in a waitlist (still on it ), no love from state schools. My lack of success with DO is most likely due to a very late app

Things I added that will be on my app for the upcoming cycle:
100 hours volunteering at a free health clinic (still active)
25 hours DO primary care shadowing
30 hours MD specialist shadowing
Re-wrote personal statement
Continue volunteering at other organizations (now I have 75 non-clinical, and 200 total clinical hours)

Personal critique for my unsuccessful app:
Borderline stats
Relatively late app
Low volunteering hours?
Bad PS?

My plans:
A lot of people have said it's not necessary, but being 2 years out of school now, I feel an SMP will benefit me. I only applied to a handful of SMPs (those that have high success rate while applying same year, since I want to get in with this MCAT) and if I don't get accepted to any of them, I'm planning on trying to get CNA certification and work while continuing my other ECs this app cycle.

Any thoughts/advice on what went wrong and my future plans?

 

[K1NG]

Thanks @Goro. Planning on having everything submitted by early June this time around. I used the MSAR to pick my school list (in post#2). I have 30 MD so far and 5 DO. I'll look into more DO programs.

Also what do you think of my additions for this cycle? Will it be a good enough improvement for the schools where I'll be a re-applicant?

 

[GrapesofRath]

Thanks @Goro. Planning on having everything submitted by early June this time around. I used the MSAR to pick my school list (in post#2). I have 30 MD so far and 5 DO. I'll look into more DO programs.

Also what do you think of my additions for this cycle? Will it be a good enough improvement for the schools where I'll be a re-applicant?

Adding on hours as a volunteer or shadow when you already had some isn't really going to change your application. Your list from last cycle was fine. If you want to see my recommendation school list from someone else who was reapplying check out my first post in this thread to see all the schools I listed. Whatever you didn't apply to last cycle apply this cycle
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-3-51-sgpa-ca-resident.1136948/#post-16498080

I'll say again an SMP is a bad idea. You have 6 semesters of good academic performance if you want to do a post-bacc MAYBE that will help you raise it to a 3.6 but honestly I just wouldn't worry about your gpa that's not what's keeping you out of your state achools. An SMP is just too risky the difficulty of doing well isn't worth the risk for people with your gpas; the chance of just destroying your chances aren't worth it at all( keep in mind your more than fine for a DO as is----don't do as well as you need to on an SMP and that'll Change fast)

What's holding you back from MDs is your gpa and mcat are below average and you don't really have anything to compensate for it. No publications nothing extensive in volunteer experience, a scribe is a nice job but as your only clinical experience that won't really make you stand out and help make up for low stats. Usually the best solution here would be to improve your mcat but you've already taken it twice so I dot think that's an option. As I said an SMP isn't worth it and I wouldn't take post-bac and commit a whole year just to raise my gpa from 3.5 to like 3.58. So your best bet is like @Goro said apply to a solid list of DOs and new MD schools and see what happens. As long as DO is something your open to( and If you to be a physician you should) you'll be fine

 

[Goro]

Should be OK with a strategically thought out list.

Thanks @Goro. Planning on having everything submitted by early June this time around. I used the MSAR to pick my school list (in post#2). I have 30 MD so far and 5 DO. I'll look into more DO programs.

Also what do you think of my additions for this cycle? Will it be a good enough improvement for the schools where I'll be a re-applicant?

 

[ZedsDed]

A 33+ MCAT score will benefit you much more than an SMP would. Your MCAT is even a tad on the low side for some of the "top" SMPs in the country (Georgetown, Temple, etc.) If you are planning on applying DO then you should have plenty of success assuming you apply smartly. Neither the SMP or an MCAT retake would be necessary in that case.

 

[K1NG]

Appreciate the responses! I have a much better idea on where I stand as an applicant, especially your last paragraph GrapesofRath. I wish I could have had more consistent volunteering but managing the family business and trying to turn my grades around was not an easy task!

I feel as if I could keep chasing a state MD acceptance through a post-bacc, SMP or a higher MCAT, but if I can have success with DO schools with my current app then I'm going to go ahead and play my cards. My field of choice right now is family med/urgent care but leaning more towards emergency medicine lately.

As far as the SMP goes, albeit risky, I really feel it will change my app. Using a GPA calculator, if I continue my trend and say I get a 3.85 doing 35 credits, my GPA will go from a 3.5 to a 3.6. Not amazing by any means, but I feel my performance in the SMP will have a higher weight than my overall GPA. In any case, I only applied to a handful of programs after a lot of research: Temple ACMS, Tulace ACP, Cinci, Loyola, and Tufts. I'll hear from them in early June. If I'm accepted into the first two then no question I will attend. Cinci and Loyola are my second choices and both intriguing programs based on their success rates. I like Tufts because I can transition into an MPH during my second year and have that to fall back on. I've also considered applying to Case Western's Physio program as a post-bacc option but it seems it will be a longer route. Just thinking out loud.

Another reason why I'm considering these programs is I'm not sure what else to do to improve my app. I am going to continue volunteering and shadowing but as said before it will not drastically change my app. Worst case scenario I don't get accepted this cycle either, what would I have to fall back on? What other changes will I have? I was thinking about research but I have about 1.5 years experience already and a first place presentation. Maybe tutoring?

In any case, my AMCAS and AACOMAS are pretty much completing. Awaiting for them to receive my transcripts and polishing up my PS in the mean time.

 

[ZedsDed]

Appreciate the responses! I have a much better idea on where I stand as an applicant, especially your last paragraph GrapesofRath. I wish I could have had more consistent volunteering but managing the family business and trying to turn my grades around was not an easy task!

I feel as if I could keep chasing a state MD acceptance through an SMP or a higher MCAT, but if I can have success with DO schools with my current app then I'm going to go ahead and play my cards. My field of choice right now is family med/urgent care but leaning more towards emergency medicine lately.

As far as the SMP goes, albeit risky, I really feel it will change my app. Using a GPA calculator, if I continue my trend and say I get a 3.85 doing 35 credits, my GPA will go from a 3.5 to a 3.6. Not amazing by any means, but I feel my performance in the SMP will have a higher weight than my overall GPA. In any case, I only applied to a handful of programs after a lot of research: Temple ACMS, Tulace ACP, Cinci, Loyola, and Tufts. I'll hear from them in early June. If I'm accepted into the first two then no question I will attend. Cinci and Loyola are my second choices and both intriguing programs based on their success rates. I like Tufts because I can transition into an MPH during my second year and have that to fall back on. I've also considered applying to Case Western's Physio program as a post-bacc option but it seems it will be a longer route. Just thinking out loud.

Another reason why I'm considering these programs is I'm not sure what else to do to improve my app. I am going to continue volunteering and shadowing but as said before it will not drastically change my app. Worst case scenario I don't get accepted this cycle either, what would I have to fall back on? What other changes will I have? I was thinking about research but I have about 1.5 years experience already and a first place presentation. Maybe tutoring?

In any case, my AMCAS and AACOMAS are pretty much completing. Awaiting for them to receive my transcripts and polishing up my PS in the mean time.

I noticed you didn't mention retaking the MCAT. Let me be clear, very little of anything you mentioned will do much to improve your app; possibly the SMP, but I think even that is overblown if you get over a 3.6. The MCAT will make or break your app, totally and completely.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I noticed you didn't mention retaking the MCAT. Let me be clear, very little of anything you mentioned will do much to improve your app; possibly the SMP, but I think even that is overblown if you get over a 3.6. The MCAT will make or break your app, totally and completely.

I believe the OP already retook it from 28 to a 30. I wouldn't advise taking it a third time unless you can make major improvement(ie along the lines of a 34) and historically the statistics show that is rather unlikely.

 

[K1NG]

I noticed you didn't mention retaking the MCAT. Let me be clear, very little of anything you mentioned will do much to improve your app; possibly the SMP, but I think even that is overblown if you get over a 3.6. The MCAT will make or break your app, totally and completely.

I have thought about that, but not sure if it's wise to pursue it this point in the cycle. Especially with the new 2015 changes that I haven't kept up with.

 

[ZedsDed]

I believe the OP already retook it from 28 to a 30. I wouldn't advise taking it a third time unless you can make major improvement(ie along the lines of a 34) and historically the statistics show that is rather unlikely.

Right but the OP asked what would change their app. A higher MCAT score would change their app. Everything else is background noise. In his position I would just apply, with a heavy DO emphasis.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Right but the OP asked what would change their app. A higher MCAT score would change their app. Everything else is background noise. In his position I would just apply, with a heavy DO emphasis.

Fair enough, if the OP applied to similar MD schools they are applying to now and didnt even get interviews then yeah "heavy DO emphasis" is the way to go and the OP will be fine. Even though an MCAT is the only possible thing to change the direction of this application, I just can't recommend studying months for it when after taking it twice only a significant change will help the OP and the odds of getting that significant change historically are very low.

 

[K1NG]

Right but the OP asked what would change their app. A higher MCAT score would change their app. Everything else is background noise. In his position I would just apply, with a heavy DO emphasis.

Fair enough, if the OP applied to similar MD schools they are applying to now and didnt even get interviews then yeah "heavy DO emphasis" is the way to go and the OP will be fine. Even though an MCAT is the only possible thing to change the direction of this application, I just can't recommend studying months for it when after taking it twice only a significant change will help the OP and the odds of getting that significant change historically are very low.

I think that's what I'll end up doing, as it seems like the most sensible option in my situation. It seems I'll have no issue getting in to my desired field as a DO. I'm going to focus my applications on my state schools and DO programs, but will apply broadly.

Hopefully I get off the waitlist, or get accepted to Temple's or Tulane's SMP program (strong linkage). I'll keep the thread updated.

 

[Grace184]

Is there something I'm missing? Your gpa- is that cumulative or science?

Also, you said you got one OOS interview- I would look at that schools benchmark matriculants and use that at a guide to where you should be applying. Anywhere around that range and below (unless it was an anomaly of course)

Don't forget FAU and U of M for MD schools

You're a shoe in for any DO