Unsuccessful Cycle with 42 MCAT, would like some advice to assess app weakness. Thanks!

[gyngyn]

I'll take the blame for an unreasonable school list, but if I have not taken the MCAT, I would have less leverage (I would like to think 29->33->42 looks slightly better than 29->33), and the score would've expired in the middle of this cycle. Am I wrong to think that?

Although it is not intuitive, very high, gpa-discordant MCAT scores do not appeal to a broad group of schools.

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[lalalaaaaaa]

I have nothing to add to what's already been said except:
Holy &%$ that's an awesome MCAT!

 

[JackyLin]

Although it is not intuitive, very high, gpa-discordant MCAT scores do not appeal to a broad group of schools.

this have to do with the idea that if the two are discordant it raises questions on the applicant's motive/consistency/commitment? Thus appear to be more risks for schools in general rather than just a regular applicant whose stats suggest one picture?

 

[gyngyn]

this have to do with the idea that if the two are discordant it raises questions on the applicant's motive/consistency/commitment? Thus appear to be more risks for schools in general rather than just a regular applicant whose stats suggest one picture?

Yes, it identifies the applicant as different in ways that may not be predictable or necessarily desirable.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I don't see where anyone has talked about your essay? Is it even about you? I have been reading some real doozies lately that read like a script off a TV show like I want to read about a play by play of the latest Full Code you witnessed on your 1 day shadowing in the ER. Just remember that the adcoms are doctors too and I for one would rather read something cool about you as a person and not read about what you think I want to read about some experience you had. I work in the ER 12-14 hours every day and the last thing I want to read is about how cool you thought it was to see someone's bone sticking out of their leg. I want to know about your travel to Africa and how you helped a starving village dig their well and how that made you grow as a person and how that experience will enhance your ability to be a caring provider.

 

[Goro]

No, it says that it's likely that the candidate is a good standardized test taker, and can't learn or apply worth a damn in real life.

this have to do with the idea that if the two are discordant it raises questions on the applicant's motive/consistency/commitment? Thus appear to be more risks for schools in general rather than just a regular applicant whose stats suggest one picture?

 

[Stagg737]

Your 42 would probably be seen as an outlier consicdering you scored a 29 and a 33 previously. After all, anyone can get lucky, which is probably what most schools thought happened with your last test. Now if your first score had been a 42...

 

[JackyLin]

I don't see where anyone has talked about your essay? I want to know about your travel to Africa and how you helped a starving village dig their well and how that made you grow as a person and how that experience will enhance your ability to be a caring provider.

No my previous one did not exaggerate anything of the sort, but in hindsight perhaps it could have been more effective in expressing what my motivations are. I will keep your advice in mind, thank you

No, it says that it's likely that the candidate is a good standardized test taker, and can't learn or apply worth a damn in real life.

Your 42 would probably be seen as an outlier consicdering you scored a 29 and a 33 previously. After all, anyone can get lucky, which is probably what most schools thought happened with your last test. Now if your first score had been a 42...

Thank you guys for giving me perspectives on how I may be viewed by the schools. I did study my ass off for this on because I believe I can do better, and I want my app to represent what my abilities are. Perhaps I have been inconsistent in the past in terms of academic records, but that was then. I will make sure to address this potential weakness, and illustrate the best I can that I am able to apply my knowledge beyond the books and that it will be the standard for me. Thank you again for the truthful opinions.

 

[JackyLin]

OP: If your secondary essays are a concern of yours, apply to less schools. I'd say apply to around 20 schools (25 max) and really do your homework as to what those schools value/want out of their students before you apply.

He told me that residencies will take a candidate from a weak school with near perfect boards over a Harvard grad who just barely passes every time. He also happened to be a Harvard grad. That's the best advice I've ever gotten about choosing my schools to apply to. If you think that a top ten school is the place for you, go for it! However, if you think a low tier or DO school fits you better, don't dismiss it just because it doesn't have 'prestige'.

Yes, I will be much more selective and considerate of my list this time around, thanks for the pointer!

P.S. Not gonna be that many Harvard grad who barely passes the boards are there? haha, but I understand what you are saying.

 

[ymmit]

Thats your problem.

Pardon my ignorance, but can anyone shed some light on the difficulties for a CA resident? I keep seeing this pop up everywhere in the forum without much explanation. Is it just that in general, people have better chances and pay less tuition at their in-state schools, but that all the UC medical schools are stellar and get a lot of applicants across the US - thus do not preferentially accept in-state applicants? So in that sense, a CA resident and a Kansas resident would be the same if they both did not apply to any in-state schools? Or am I missing something more significant?

 

[el_duderino]

Pardon my ignorance, but can anyone shed some light on the difficulties for a CA resident? I keep seeing this pop up everywhere in the forum without much explanation. Is it just that in general, people have better chances and pay less tuition at their in-state schools, but that all the UC medical schools are stellar and get a lot of applicants across the US - thus do not preferentially accept in-state applicants? So in that sense, a CA resident and a Kansas resident would be the same if they both did not apply to any in-state schools? Or am I missing something more significant?

In-state schools are often one of the best choices for aspiring students: tuition is often low, and the schools have in-state selection preferences, giving them a leg up on a lot of competition.

In California, though, the state schools are incredibly selective. If you're good enough to get into one, even as an in state student, you're good enough to get into a lot of schools.

 

[Plecopotamus]

Pardon my ignorance, but can anyone shed some light on the difficulties for a CA resident? I keep seeing this pop up everywhere in the forum without much explanation. Is it just that in general, people have better chances and pay less tuition at their in-state schools, but that all the UC medical schools are stellar and get a lot of applicants across the US - thus do not preferentially accept in-state applicants? So in that sense, a CA resident and a Kansas resident would be the same if they both did not apply to any in-state schools? Or am I missing something more significant?

They still preferentially select IS applicants, but there are (1) so many of them, and (2) due to the quality of the UC schools and attractiveness of living in CA, those offered admission are more likely to accept that offer than IS applicants with less esteemed state schools (who often elect to go to a pricier but more well regarded private institution over their state school), so people who would be a strong IS applicant in almost any other state school don't even have a shot.

 

[The Chemist]

you applied to UCI? contact them! for me they were able to set up an appt. and literally read off the adcom notes on my file

 

[JackyLin]

you applied to UCI? contact them! for me they were able to set up an appt. and literally read off the adcom notes on my file

Even without an interview?!

 

[The Chemist]

Even without an interview?!

yes! I was not offered an interview.

 

[JackyLin]

yes! I was not offered an interview.

That is great to know. Will make the call first thing tomorrow morning.

 

[JackyLin]

yes! I was not offered an interview.

Unfortunately they have stopped offering appointments to review applications called a few other schools too though, some seem open but we will see as they all asked me to send in an email to request an appointment.

 

[Biology4Life84]

A 42 on the MCAT should put you way above the average scorer. But it took you 3 years of studying for the MCAT to get that score. It probably would of looked better to go with the 33. Just my opinion. And your gpa is very good. If you applied to all of those schools and got rejected....dang that's pretty harsh. I just don't know, I've never heard of someone like you before.

Did you routinely call the schools to get an update on your application?

 

[mrh125]

good lord, how did you study for the mcat? i couldn't even get above a 30 after 7 months of studying and going through every resource

 

[mrh125]

Your 42 would probably be seen as an outlier consicdering you scored a 29 and a 33 previously. After all, anyone can get lucky, which is probably what most schools thought happened with your last test. Now if your first score had been a 42...

since when does a 3-5 point increase in sections constitute luck in any form? I'd like to see you try and guess your way to a 42 on the mcat. that assumption is really off-base. Also, if the mcat is a test where you can just get lucky with a 42, why not dump it as an admissions indicator?

 

[Law2Doc]

Your two mistakes are taking the MCAT a third time after getting a 33...

Agree. There's a lot of focus on numbers and Lizzy scores on this thread, but I think the focus is maybe in the wrong place. That was never OPs problem. A 33 is enough to get into most med schools. (Heck, a balanced 29 gets people into some places). If you have a 3.5/33 and aren't getting in, guess what, it not a numbers thing. And its not an "applied too late" and to "too few of the wrong schools" either; While this can certainly happen it's not as common as postulated on sdn and very often just something reapplicants latch onto because it means there was nothing wrong with them or their application that they need to address -- it's an easy fix so its very appealing. Lots of people still get in applying late, and if you got a couple of interviews you had a couple of opportunities to land a spot and didn't.

Much more likely, when a 3.5/33 doesn't get in, it's because don't like your LORs or essays or interview. At any rate, I think someone who got a 33 and retook the MCAT actually is a negative for some places because it shows a lack if insight. You likely didn't fix what was broken. It's like taking your car into the shop for a ping in the engine and they give you a brand new set of white walls. Sure it looks cosmetically better, but is that going to make you forget about the ping?

So fix what's broke. Don't just throw the same application with a higher MCAT out there and hope for a very different result. Take a step back and really be critical about what did you in last time around. I doubt it ever was a numerical issue.

 

[el_duderino]

good lord, how did you study for the mcat? i couldn't even get above a 30 after 7 months of studying and going through every resource

Some people are just good at standardized tests. It's a talent like anything else. A lot of people get 90th+ percentile scores with little or no studying.

 

[BeancheBlanco]

standardized tests are definitely a skill. Some people just can't score a 30+ no matter how much they study and some people score 38+ right off the bat. But that doesn't make it meaningless. There's a reason the MCAT is weighted heavily in admissions. It tests for something that admissions committees deem important to being a physician and is distinct from GPA. I also find it ridiculous to call his 42 an "outlier" or "luck". While it's true scores will vary depending on the specific test you get, it doesn't vary that much. I took all the AAMC practice tests and the real thing and my score did not fluctuate THAT much. Clearly, the OP did something to improve his score (or did something bad to lower his score last time). I also find it ridiculous that schools don't want him BECAUSE of his discordant MCAT/GPA. While it would obviously be better to have high scores in everything, I can't believe that he would be better off with matching mediocre MCAT/GPA scores. He did get 2 interviews at top 10 schools. If his MCAT was around a 32-34, there would be no way in hell that would have happened. My impression is that he needs to improve interview skills and work on ECs and he'll be fine. Add in a couple more mid-tier schools that fit his application (like other have suggested). I think given that he will be a re-applicant next year, the mid-tier and mid-high tier schools will be more likely to interview/accept him (knowing that he didn't get into a top school last time) while the top 10 would be less likely.

 

[JackyLin]

If you have a 3.5/33 and aren't getting in, guess what, it not a numbers thing.

At any rate, I think someone who got a 33 and retook the MCAT actually is a negative for some places because it shows a lack if insight. You likely didn't fix what was broken.

So fix what's broke. Don't just throw the same application with a higher MCAT out there and hope for a very different result. Take a step back and really be critical about what did you in last time around. I doubt it ever was a numerical issue.

I'm not sure but I think you mistook me for applying once with 3.5/33 3 years ago. I didn't. I applied for the first time last year, and took the MCAT because the other MCATs were from 2 years ago then.

I retook the 33 because I believe I could do better based on what I see on my performance when I restudied for it, and I wanted to apply with the best foot forward. I was hoping it'd be a sign of taking initiative/redemption but instead its taking a lot of heat here. While some do raise legitimate concerns this retake may appear, I felt some comments were uncalled for. Let's drop the issue with MCAT, shall we?

Thanks LawDoc for your advice, I do believe there are issues other than my MCAT. I will look more closely into every element of my app from last year to improve it.

 

[Plecopotamus]

I'm not sure but I think you mistook me for applying once with 3.5/33 3 years ago. I didn't. I applied for the first time last year, and took the MCAT because the other MCATs were from 2 years ago then.

I retook the 33 because I believe I could do better based on what I see on my performance when I restudied for it, and I wanted to apply with the best foot forward. I was hoping it'd be a sign of taking initiative/redemption but instead its taking a lot of heat here. While some do raise legitimate concerns this retake may appear, I felt some comments were uncalled for. Let's drop the issue with MCAT, shall we?

Thanks LawDoc for your advice, I do believe there are issues other than my MCAT. I will look more closely into every element of my app from last year to improve it.

I know I brought it up before, and you took note, but I think among pre-meds who've had sort of a range of reactions to your MCAT, a really important point about your LORs has been sort of drowned out here. Your LORs (1 bio, 1 PI, and 1 polisci) are bare bones and if your PI didn't also teach you in a graded course may not even satisfy the LOR requirements at some schools. And as I said before, given your erratic academic history and MCAT history, I think you need a letter attesting to your performance in a clinical environment to assure adcoms that your effort and interest don't fluctuate there, too.

 

[JackyLin]

a really important point about your LORs has been sort of drowned out here.

weak clinical exposure

Yes, I have taken note and put it in action. I am in the process of obtaining a letter of LOR from an associate director of one of my clinical activities. Thank you for reiterating this important point.

I understand that my clinical exposure is by no means comparable with those who has been committed since beginning of college with 1000+ hours put into it, but would ~450 hours I have now considered weak nowadays?

 

[Plecopotamus]

Yes, I have taken note and put it in action. I am in the process of obtaining a letter of LOR from an associate director of one of my clinical activities. Thank you for reiterating this important point.

I understand that my clinical exposure is by no means comparable with those who has been committed since beginning of college with 1000+ hours put into it, but would ~450 hours I have now considered weak nowadays?

Oops. Brain fart. That was meant for a response to a different person/post. Edited now. Just a comment on your erratic academics/MCAT. Sorry .

Did your PI also teach you in a course in which you received a grade?

 

[JackyLin]

Oops. Brain fart. That was meant for a response to a different person/post. Edited now. Just a comment on your erratic academics/MCAT. Sorry .

Did your PI also teach you in a course in which you received a grade?

Not the conventional course where there are exams, but a research course where grades are given based on laboratory effort, result, punctuality and etc. I also have him as my graduate degree committee chair. I know I should have harnessed more relationships with the faculty while I had the chance, there's no excuse in that.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm not sure you can justifiably ask people to "drop" discussion of your MCAT score when you led with it in the thread title. That's like Justin Bieber asking everyone to just drop the whole drunk driving and soliciting prostitutes to focus on his music. Sorry but you led with that and put it out there. We didn't.

The problem with the multiple MCATs is it telegraphs something about you to the schools, so it's something not unreasonable to look at when analyzing where things went south. Truth of the matter is people get in to med school sometimes with 29 and for sure do with a 33. I could understand retaking the 29 if it wasn't your best work, and programs would too. But a 33 is plenty for med school. So to the extent your application came up short with a 33 we know with almost certainty that it had nothing to do with your score. So it's nice that you did better the next time, but I'm not sure it plays out as a positive because it highlights that places didn't want you with a 33. Since the scores were expiring I guess you had no choice, but my point is your 42 isn't worth the 42 of the guy who took it once. In a funny way it hurts you because the top places are still going to dismiss your 42 because you are a reapplicant who took it thrice. It just looks like you spent too much time focusing on a daTa point that never mattered. Given that, I think you have to check your ego at the door and put more focus on the lower end places, after you figure out what ELSE isn't working in your application. I'd do A small handful of longshots, not the majority. Right now your list is heavy with the Harvards and Hopkinses of the world, and guess what -- they rarely if ever take reapplicants with multiple MCATs -- they get a ton of applications from people who got 35+ on the first attempt. (as an aside, when I applied to med school some eons ago, I sat down with a former dean at a top school who impressed upon me how you needed to get all the ducks in a row the first time because schools like his never give much love to reapplicants.) Id say a number of the upper echelon places on your list are firmly closed doors and I'd personally save the fees for other places here you have more of a shot. I get that you acknowledge the list to be "top heavy" and are playing the "what if" game, but the application money and your time are real and better spent on places where you actually have a shot. If I was a reapplicant in your position I'd get a copy of the US news research ranking and not allow myself to apply to more than three places in the top 30, period. The rest of your applications should be split equally between the middle and lower third of that list, because honestly that's where I predict a reapplicant with your numbers ends up. There are tons of people in med school already with a 3.5/33 and similar ECs, so you need to figure out where you missed the boat on the nonnumerical stuff. But I think including so many longshots that really don't give much love to reapplicants on your list sets you up for disaster. You didn't get a 42 right out of the chute, you got a 29. So the top places aren't going to equate you to their other high score applicants, who took it once. A lower end program that gets fewer 42s might...

So in sum, figure out what nonnumerical issues are in your application, check your ego and replace some of the longshots on your list, and know your 42 isn't worth an "out of the box" 42 so pretend it's more like a soft 32 and apply accordingly. You can get into "a" med school, but Id rather see you with a list that reflects that you know the top 20-30 schools are your longshot hail mary reach schools, not your main focus. Good luck.

 

[Stagg737]

since when does a 3-5 point increase in sections constitute luck in any form? I'd like to see you try and guess your way to a 42 on the mcat. that assumption is really off-base. Also, if the mcat is a test where you can just get lucky with a 42, why not dump it as an admissions indicator?

I'm not saying it was luck in OP's case, I'm just saying it is possible (though the odds are obviously miniscule) to get that score based on luck. However, this is what many admissions boards may see, especially with a 9 point improvement that happens to put OP into the 99th percentile. I have had friends that took the test 3-4 times with scores like 25, 26, 34 that were rejected and told their highest score was seen as luck/not reasonable because they had already set a trend with their lower scores. If OP feels like that the first 2 scores are outdated, then that is something that should be conveyed in the application. Otherwise I think the 42 is a score that, while very impressive and possibly the most representative of OP's actual capabilities, will be seen as inconsequential to a lot schools.

I think Law2Doc's advice is very solid and pretty spot on from what I have seen dealing with dozens of reapplicants with crazy retake scores in my SMP. Whether it's a 33 or 42, it seems like your problem lies somewhere other than your MCATs...

Also, keep in mind that 10 years down the road when you're looking to start your career the residency program you attended will carry much more importance than what school you attended. Forget about 'tiers' and find schools that you will excel at and will place you into a residency you want to go to. Review your profile carefully, fill in your (non-MCAT) gaps, and re-apply wisely and I don't see why you wouldn't get in next cycle.

 

[kthxbai]

I don't know of anyone mentioned this, but your multiple scores may very well have averaged.

 

[Jamie561]

Thanks guys for the feedback. I understand how it looks top heavy, but with my app, where should I have aimed as my target schools a year ago? Also, based on a quick look up on US News, I did have are some that are not top 30:

UCI #43
UCR (not yet ranked)
UCD #40
BU #32
Rochester #34
Jefferson #60
Creighton U #71
Tulane unranked
GWU #60

UCs are more competitive than their rank implies and should not be thought of as a traditional mid tier.

BU and GW receive like 10k+ apps a year due to location and are also not traditional mid tiers.

The rest of this list is generally solid for target/safety. I would cut out the top schools for your next app cycle. The GPA is unfortunately holding you back.

 

[Law2Doc]

...The GPA is unfortunately holding you back.

No way. A 3.5/33 is plenty for a lot of US allo med schools. Most people with those stats get in someplace, if they apply broadly. This clearly has very little to do with numbers. But the top ranked, California and popular city schools should absolutely be minimized on OPs list and the focus should be on mid to lower ranked places, after the nonnumerical things get fixed. A reapplicant who took the MCAT three times doesn't get into Harvard/Hopkins even without nonnumerical issues. The pipe dreams aren't helping the OP. OP should pick out three longshots and use the rest of the time/money on more realistic options.

 

[TwinsFan]

Focus on your weaknesses:
Get good LORs, write quality essays, and I would do a one year informal full time postbac at a local 4 year with a 4.0 (this will string 2 years together and eliminate most doubt of you being a "safe bet") all while continuing to be involved in medical setting and giving back to your community
...and make sure to reapply before that 42 expires

 

[Jamie561]

No way. A 3.5/33 is plenty for a lot of US allo med schools. Most people with those stats get in someplace, if they apply broadly. This clearly has very little to do with numbers. But the top ranked, California and popular city schools should absolutely be minimized on OPs list and the focus should be on mid to lower ranked places, after the nonnumerical things get fixed. A reapplicant who took the MCAT three times doesn't get into Harvard/Hopkins even without nonnumerical issues. The pipe dreams aren't helping the OP. OP should pick out three longshots and use the rest of the time/money on more realistic options.

To clarify, I meant that the top schools in OP's list have higher GPA standards. There are plenty of allo schools that would love a 42 and 3.5

 

[kkcc]

I think many schools simply thought someone with a 42 MCAT would matriculate at other schools, and thus pass over you for interview. Interview time and slots are limited.

You need to keep sending letters of interest to schools you've applied clearly explaining why the school is a great fit for you. It helps if you have family/bf/gf ties to the school location and indicate that you want to go there in order to stay close to them. If the schools believe that you would matriculate there given the chance, they would interview you.

 

[Plecopotamus]

I think many schools simply thought someone with a 42 MCAT would matriculate at other schools, and thus pass over you for interview. Interview time and slots are limited.

You need to keep sending letters of interest to schools you've aIpplied clearly explaining why the school is a great fit for you. It helps if you have family/bf/gf ties to the school location and indicate that you want to go there in order to stay close to them. If the schools believe that you would matriculate there given the chance, they would interview you.

For the sake of improving future advice you try to leave on SDN, I strongly suggest you read the restof the advice given in this thread. A 42 MCAT from a 3rd attempt (initially in the 20s), let alone with discordant GPA, is not something that anybody looks at as an applicant so strong they clearly will matriculate elsewhere. Top tier schools have no reason to drool over that score on a 3rd attempt when they have plenty of people w stronger/concordant GPAs and impressive MCAT on first attempt. The less competitive institutions are fully aware of that. The fluctuating academic performance will be problematic, esp w such a range of MCAT performance (OP looks inconsistent). OP may also have a LOR issue and did not have an appropriate school list.

Reapplicants have to fix what's broken. A CA applicant pleading strong ties to a state he/she doesn't live in is unlikely to help someone with the above issues. A sure fire way to end up a 3rd, 4th, etc. cycle reapplicant is to keep trying to dress up an application in ways that you hope will distract from the weaknessed or concerns it raises rather than tackling them head on.

 

[PL198]

After this many tries, don't you think you should "settle" for some of the lower ranked schools? Like literally find the easiest allo schools to get into, and apply to 10 of those. Applying to that many top tier schools reeks of entitlement just because of your MCAT to me. It's a great score, but you've effectively had 3+ years to study for it now. Your life, but the more times you fail to get a spot, the more you shoot yourself in the foot. If I were you, I'd find the bottom of the barrel allo schools, maybe even some DO schools and apply to them, so I had a decent shot of becoming a doctor.. Or you can live in dream world and pretend like you're actually viable at Stanford or Harvard. Hint: You probably aren't. Is that rude? Maybe, but it's the truth.

 

[Plecopotamus]

After this many tries ...

OP only actually applied once, then came seeking advice, b/c of a pretty unusual situation (i.e. a mix of stats that it's understandable could lead someone to misjudge competitiveness). It takes guts to open oneself up like this on SDN, so it's wholly unnecessary to tell the OP to stop living in a dream world and snidely "hint" she's not material for those places. Shall we take a show of hands to get a count of how many SDNers have had unreasonable reaches on their app list? So why pick on an OP who didn't realize a 3rd time score held less weight and has since shown herself wholly interested in constructive feedback to improve her app? I'd say that probably makes her dream world the same as most SDNers...being a doctor.

 

[PL198]

OP only actually applied once, then came seeking advice, b/c of a pretty unusual situation (i.e. a mix of stats that it's understandable could lead someone to misjudge competitiveness). It takes guts to open oneself up like this on SDN, so it's wholly unnecessary to tell the OP to stop living in a dream world and snidely "hint" she's not material for those places. Shall we take a show of hands to get a count of how many SDNers have had unreasonable reaches on their app list? So why pick on an OP who didn't realize a 3rd time score held less weight and has since shown herself wholly interested in constructive feedback to improve her app? I'd say that probably makes her dream world the same as most SDNers...being a doctor.

It's not picking on anyone. I was referring to MCAT tries. If OP truly wanted to be a doctor, they would have had those "bottom barrel" schools I talked about on their list from the beginning. Idc if you have a 45, a 4.0 and you founded facebook, if you actually want to do medicine, you understand that it's competitive as hell and you get some safeties to make sure you accomplish your goal. The 66th ranked school in the nation or whatever isn't a safety for anyone. It's different to have unreasonable reaches on your list vs having a list completely full of unreasonable such reaches. The results alone speak of the validity of OP's list for OP's application. Pre-meds could use someone being honest with them. Everyone tells them "yes yes yes" even when it's not the actual best thing for them. I'm being realistic.

 

[Plecopotamus]

It's not picking on anyone. I was referring to MCAT tries. If OP truly wanted to be a doctor, they would have had those "bottom barrel" schools I talked about on their list from the beginning. Idc if you have a 45, a 4.0 and you founded facebook, if you actually want to do medicine, you understand that it's competitive as hell and you get some safeties to make sure you accomplish your goal. The 66th ranked school in the nation or whatever isn't a safety for anyone. It's different to have unreasonable reaches on your list vs having a list completely full of unreasonable such reaches. The results alone speak of the validity of OP's list for OP's application. Pre-meds could use someone being honest with them. Everyone tells them "yes yes yes" even when it's not the actual best thing for them. I'm being realistic.

Did you read the rest of the thread? Lots of people were honest without being sarcastic. You, yourself, rhetorically acknowledged you'd been rude.

 

[occams_razor]

No, it says that it's likely that the candidate is a good standardized test taker, and can't learn or apply worth a damn in real life.

I would understand adcoms feeling this way for someone with say a 42 MCAT and a 3.1 GPA but the OP has a 3.5 GPA and even for many of the top tier MD schools 3.5 is the 10th percentile not exactly unacceptable.

 

[Goro]

Read the posts by my learned colleagues Law2doc, Pleco and gyngyn. It's not mere the score and GPA, it's the number of takes, and the discordant GPA-MCAT. A 3.5 at top-tier schools will be accompanied by something specutaular, and not just a high MCAT.

I would understand adcoms feeling this way for someone with say a 42 MCAT and a 3.1 GPA but the OP has a 3.5 GPA and even for many of the top tier MD schools 3.5 is the 10th percentile not exactly unacceptable.

 

[el_duderino]

I would understand adcoms feeling this way for someone with say a 42 MCAT and a 3.1 GPA but the OP has a 3.5 GPA and even for many of the top tier MD schools 3.5 is the 10th percentile not exactly unacceptable.

If you're capable of scoring a 42 on the MCAT you are a brilliant person. No question there. You are definitely very, very smart.

If you're capable of scoring a 42 on the MCAT but get a 29 the first time you take it, it suggests you did not adequately prepare for it for whatever reason.

If you're capable of scoring a 42 on the MCAT but get a 29 the first time you take it and a 33 the second time, it suggests you did not adequately learn from the prior experience and put forth sufficient effort on the *second* time either which calls into question your commitment.

And if your'e capable of scoring a 42 on the MCAT and have a 3.5 GPA, the whole thing suggests that while you're definitely very smart and capable of operating at a high level, you don't really do so all that often. The impression I get from the OP is an exceptionally bright guy who has trouble consistently making an effort at coursework that may not especially interest him and is content to breeze through it with almost no effort and take the B. Someone who is capable of much more than what he has demonstrated thus far.

I see a lot of myself in the OP, actually.

 

[Plecopotamus]

I would understand adcoms feeling this way for someone with say a 42 MCAT and a 3.1 GPA but the OP has a 3.5 GPA and even for many of the top tier MD schools 3.5 is the 10th percentile not exactly unacceptable.

See jonnythan's post, but I'll add (since I don't think a 3.5 in and of itself shows lack of application, depending on your school & types of courses) that getting a 3.5 by averaging lower and higher semesters without an upward trend confirms erratic effort/application in the context of the same school.

 

[snowman.33]

I'm not sure but I think you mistook me for applying once with 3.5/33 3 years ago. I didn't. I applied for the first time last year, and took the MCAT because the other MCATs were from 2 years ago then.

I retook the 33 because I believe I could do better based on what I see on my performance when I restudied for it, and I wanted to apply with the best foot forward. I was hoping it'd be a sign of taking initiative/redemption but instead its taking a lot of heat here. While some do raise legitimate concerns this retake may appear, I felt some comments were uncalled for. Let's drop the issue with MCAT, shall we?

Thanks LawDoc for your advice, I do believe there are issues other than my MCAT. I will look more closely into every element of my app from last year to improve it.

Maybe I skimmed too quickly, but I don't see any advice about your PS said yet. If it has been said, I will say it again, because my (kinda) high(ish) MCAT last cycle got me one little IS interview out of a lot of schools because my PS was pretty average.

Make your PS PRISTINE.

Have your mom read it. Have your dad read it. Have readers on here read it (they are really good). Heck, have your dog read it. And lastly, read it aloud to yourself in the mirror and see if it seems genuine. I also had a rocky GPA trend, with a huge dip in my junior year (<3.0), but I made a note of recognizing my inconsistencies in my statement, so maybe try that as well!

 

[JackyLin]

It takes guts to open oneself up like this on SDN, so it's wholly unnecessary to tell the OP to stop living in a dream world and snidely "hint" she's not material for those places.

Thanks for your remarks!!

I see a lot of myself in the OP, actually.

You were spot on with the the MCAT tries and junior year GPA. I was younger then, got on the train a bit late (wanted to do med in my junior year), and now looking back not wholely committed and sure what I was trying to do. That's the reason I decided to take a few more years before applying to confirm my reasons.

Make your PS PRISTINE.

I also had a rocky GPA trend, with a huge dip in my junior year (<3.0), but I made a note of recognizing my inconsistencies in my statement, so maybe try that as well!

Someone else did mention PS buried in those previous comments haha, and I am paying exceptional attention to my PS now to make it perfect. However, I sort of see bipolar views about addressing weakness on my PS. Some said explain it lightly, others said to not bring up anything negative at all, so I am rather perplexed. (I mentioned it lightly as a time management issue I overcame evident in my involvement and academics in senior year)

 

[snowman.33]

Someone else did mention PS buried in those previous comments haha, and I am paying exceptional attention to my PS now to make it perfect. However, I sort of see bipolar views about addressing weakness on my PS. Some said explain it lightly, others said to not bring up anything negative at all, so I am rather perplexed. (I mentioned it lightly as a time management issue I overcame evident in my involvement and academics in senior year)

Oops did not to mean to come across to say to address your weaknesses heavily. Others are right - a well-placed sentence will do. If you mention the negative in a positive light, such as a learning point, I think it is harmless to make the remark. After all, they see everything anyways.

Generally just try and get your PS outstanding, negative comments aside. Work on flow and limit the cliches. Your 42 should definitely carry some weight, even if its your 3rd. Good luck!

 

[rodmichael82]

First off, I meant no arrogance with the title, just want to catch some attention for help. I hope I don't offend anyone by that.

Long story short, I applied to 30 schools with the following:

gGPA/sGPA - 3.51/3.45
- low freshmen (~3.0)
- 3.7x sophomore
- low junior (~3.1)
- 3.975 senior year (took a risk at redeeming myself by taking 28 units/7 courses compared to normal workload. Had a mixture of upper division humanities/social sciences and sciences)

MCAT (P/V/B)
April 2011 - 29P (11/9/9)
August 2011 - 33M (13/10/10)
April 2013 - 42 (14/13/15)

Clinical ~ 300 hours
Shadow ~ 100 hours

Research
~2 years at a school of medicine neuroscience lab, working on my Masters thesis and projected defense date is in summer, potential submission
~0.5 year in 2011 working in an immunology lab

Scattered community service/school volunteers ~200 hours

CA resident.

Received only two IIs in the cycle, both somewhat early and from top 10 schools (one ~9/20 another ~10/8), ended up with one waitlist and one pseudo-waitlist/rejection. Nothing from target/safeties.

My hypothesis is weakness in the secondaries, as the two schools I got IIs from did not have "why this school" questions and have alternate prompts which I devote extra time on, could that be it? Any insights are appreciated. Let me know if you guys want more info.

School list (I know it's top heavy but I went overboard so I wouldn't think of "what if I applied"..)

Stanford
Columbia
Mount Sinai
Yale
U of Chicago
Johns Hopkins
Harvard
Northwestern
Washington St.Louis
Mayo
U of Michigan
Cornell
U of Penn
U of Pitts
Vanderbilt
Duke
UCSD
UCSF
UCLA
UCI
UCR
UCD
Emory
BU
NYU
Rochester
Jefferson
Creighton U
Tulane
GWU

You applied way too top heavy considering you're a CA resident.