URM Filipino

[gyngyn]

Just found the data.
http://aamcdiversityfactsandfigures.org/section-ii-current-status-of-us-physician-workforce/

There's 5455 Filipino Physicians in the whole U.S. out of a total of 956523 U.S. Physicians. That's .57% when the 3.41 million Filipino-Americans make up 1.078% of the 316.1 million U.S. Population. The number of Filipino Physicians should be almost twice what it is now. There's an obvious displacement of Filipinos by ORM Asian groups. Indian physicians make up 46186/956523 U.S. Physicians, or 4.828% when they make up 3.18 million/316.1 million or 1.006% of the U.S. population. Chinese physicians make up 18476/956523 U.S. Physicians or 1.931% when they make up 3.8 million/316.1 million or 1.202% of the U.S. Population. Korean physicians make up 7817/956523 U.S. Physicians or .817% when they make up 1.7 million/316.1 million or .537% of the U.S. Population. Compare these numbers with the number of medical applicants from each ethnicity. (Figure 7, pg. 22) There's an obvious displacement of Filipinos by Asian ethnicities with more applicants because when they have more applicants, they're gonna have more who are on the right end of the bell curve. Lumping all Asians together leads to an ethnically disproportionate U.S. Physician population with the ethnicities that have the most applicants displacing other ethnicities.

Filipinos ARE URM in medicine in the United States. They need to be considered separately from other Asians.

Each school, based on their own criteria and the needs of their region or service area, decides which people (besides the original"URM" groups) may be considered under-represented in medicine at that school. That is the reason that many (if not most CA schools) consider Hmong, Cambodian and Samoan applicants under-represented, though they are Asian. This determination is augmented if there is proof of health disparity (as exists in these ethnic communities in CA).

We don't lump all Asians in CA. I'm pretty sure that other regions have similar situations. The fact that Pinoy are 3% of both the physician and patient population in CA (and thus, at parity in the state where most of them reside), makes it pretty unlikely that OOS schools are going to make a UIM designation for this group.

The situation is different for colleges. Filipino students are actively recruited due to disparities in enrollment in CA universities.

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[coolio24567]

"You can assume they are Filipino for the same reason you can assume (rightly so) that the vast majority of Indian IMGs are Indian." That is a false assumption. Look at the number of Filipino applicants to U.S. Medical Schools vs Indian applicants. 543 vs 3270 when Filipino-Americans outnumber Indian-Americans in the general population. https://members.aamc.org/eweb/upload/Diversity in Medical Education_Facts and Figures 2012.pdf

Clearly becoming a doctor is more strongly emphasized in Indian culture than in Filipino culture.

And you're making up stuff about us taking all the physicians from the Philippines. Where's your proof of that?

There was never a large industry of US students being educated in the Philippines. You literally made up a ridiculous fact and are asking me to prove your made up conjecture wrong. The Caribbean has always been the go to place for US students that couldn't get a spot in a US school to be educated, the Philippines was not. You can assume they are Filipino for the same reason you can assume (rightly so) that the vast majority of Indian IMGs are Indian. Filipinos aren't URM, and making up imaginary US grads training in the Philippines to account for the 15,000 practicing physicians that were educated in the Philippines doesn't change that. If even half of those 15,000 physicians were native Filipinos, you would be ORM. But the number is far greater than half.

 

[Mad Jack]

"You can assume they are Filipino for the same reason you can assume (rightly so) that the vast majority of Indian IMGs are Indian." That is a false assumption. Look at the number of Filipino applicants to U.S. Medical Schools vs Indian applicants. 543 vs 3270 when Filipino-Americans outnumber Indian-Americans in the general population. https://members.aamc.org/eweb/upload/Diversity in Medical Education_Facts and Figures 2012.pdf

Clearly becoming a doctor is more strongly emphasized in Indian culture than in Filipino culture.

It doesn't matter that there's more Indians. You're missing the point. You are at parity at worst, and overrepresented at best. That makes you either adequately represented or ORM, depending on your area. What you are not is a URM. The fact that there's more Indians going into medicine than Filipinos doesn't change that. Just because they're more ORM than you doesn't make you a URM.

 

[coolio24567]

I'm saying that you can't assume most of the Filipino IMG students coming to the U.S. are actually Filipino like you can with Indians. Medical schools in the Philippines are very cheap (<$10,000/year). That in itself would be very attractive to Americans who want to go to a foreign medical school.

It doesn't matter that there's more Indians. You're missing the point. You are at parity at worst, and overrepresented at best. That makes you either adequately represented or ORM, depending on your area. What you are not is a URM. The fact that there's more Indians going into medicine than Filipinos doesn't change that. Just because they're more ORM than you doesn't make you a URM.

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm saying that you can't assume most of the Filipino IMG students coming to the U.S. are actually Filipino like you can with Indians. Medical schools in the Philippines are very cheap (<$10,000/year). That in itself would be very attractive to Americans who want to go to a foreign medical school.

Just because it's cheap doesn't mean people were doing it dude. Like I said, the highest number of concurrent Americans studying medicine in the PI that I can find on record was 200 at a given time. If you'd like I can get you in touch with a few older Filipino educators that teach at CDU, UP, and UST and they can talk to you about how rare American students have been over the years.

 

[sundancing]

The Philippines was a Spanish colony for nearly 400 years. You can bet there was a lot of Spanish culture/DNA injected into the Philippines during that span. They are the only predominantly Catholic nation in Asia, thanks to Spain.

I understand that, but the fact of the matter is that the U.S. Census considers Filipinos to fall under the Asian category and adcoms will likely agree with that. If you want to claim you're Hispanic because you're Filipino, go ahead, it's your funeral.

Similarly, many, many people in Peru have Asian blood, and parts of Peruvian culture have Asian influence. Peruvians are still considered Latino, not Asian.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Mad Jack, Mad jack! *chants*

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

OP, based on this information, I know I would not want you in medical school. I can already imagine you arguing for alternative/harmful treatment plans; the arrogance is tangible. Adcoms are not stupid, and they will see through your ********.

 

[coolio24567]

I understand that, but the fact of the matter is that the U.S. Census considers Filipinos to fall under the Asian category and adcoms will likely agree with that. If you want to claim you're Hispanic because you're Filipino, go ahead, it's your funeral.

Similarly, many, many people in Peru have Asian blood, and parts of Peruvian culture have Asian influence. Peruvians are still considered Latino, not Asian.

Hispanic origin is independent of race.

"
OP, based on this information, I know I would not want you in medical school. I can already imagine you arguing for alternative/harmful treatment plans; the arrogance is tangible. Adcoms are not stupid, and they will see through your ********.
"
Bias, bias, bias. Oh so physicians aren't allowed to be strong advocates for social issues?

 

[Mad Jack]

Hispanic origin is independent of race.

"
OP, based on this information, I know I would not want you in medical school. I can already imagine you arguing for alternative/harmful treatment plans; the arrogance is tangible. Adcoms are not stupid, and they will see through your ********.
"
Bias, bias, bias. Oh so physicians aren't allowed to be strong advocates for social issues?

If you claim "Hispanic" for admission purposes and you've got a family that has never spoken the language, doesn't know the culture, and is from a country that is generally regarded as non-Hispanic, you will be viewed as disingenuous. It's pretty easy to see through someone's attempts to claim URM status for admission purposes. Best story I ever heard in regard to this sort of situation was about a guy who claimed to be Hispanic and that claimed to speak fluent Spanish when he was actually very, very white. There was a Hispanic person on the admissions staff that walked into the room, sat down, and started conducting the interview in Spanish. The guy didn't speak a word of it aside from what he learned at a summer medical Spanish course. Needless to say, the interview did not go well

If you claim Hispanic as your identity, they will question you in regard to it. If you were well integrated into your local Hispanic community and could defend your decision to choose "Hispanic" then it might fly, but that is a hard thing to do if you're just BSing the adcoms.

Why don't you just like, apply with your qualifications and be honest and hope you get in? What's wrong with that?

 

[DokterMom]

Look at all the racist people, who don't want a legitimately underrepresented minority to get AA, and are liking this post.

A lot of Americans who don't get into US medical schools have gone to Philippine medical schools. Many are not of Filipino descent. There's over 30 medical schools in the Philippines and their tuition is very low (<$10,000/year). The same analysis shows Dominica and Grenada as major exporters to US schools, both tiny island nations with populations of <100,000 people. Do you really think tiny island nations are exporting a HUGE percentage of their natives as doctors to the United States? No, the common factor is that they have medical schools that US students go to.

Filipinos are the largest Asian-American group in California and make up 25.6% of California's Asian-American population with 1.474 million Filipino Americans out of California's 5.556 million Asian-Americans (if you don't trust Wikipedia, follow the citations). A UCSF study (Figure 3 on pg. 10) showed for the ETHNICITIES (not country where they attended medical school) of California doctors, Filipino was barely the third-highest represented Asian-American minority. That Filipino bar is far from a quarter of the cumulative sum of all the bars.

The disparity for US-trained Filipino-American doctors is even greater. Filipino-Americans are the second-largest Asian-American group in the United States with 3.41 million out of 17.32 million Asian-Americans, or 19.7%. However, Filipino-Americans only make up 4.8% of Asian-American Medical school applicants (Figure 7, page 22). This leads to a displacement of Filipino-American medical students at schools that don't recognize them as URM, and clump them in with the rest of "Asians", by other ORM (Chinese, Indians), and a vast under-representation of Filipinos in American medical schools.

Fortunately, some medical schools like UC Irvine and University of Utah don't clump Filipinos with the rest of Asians and recognize them as URM. For the rest of the schools that don't, Filipinos are displaced by other Asians and only get 1 or 2 admits per school, whereas there's often 10-20 Indian/Chinese admits per school (just look at the MSAR), when Filipinos are the second largest Asian-American group in the United States.

If U.S. medical school populations are supposed to represent the general population of the United States, they're doing a very poor job for Filipino-Americans.

You bring up some interesting observations and have some valid points.

But labeling everyone who agreed with any of the previous posters as racist is hugely counter-productive. You probably lost a good chunk of your potential audience by insulting them in your first sentence.

 

[coolio24567]

You bring up some interesting observations and have some valid points.

But labeling everyone who agreed with any of the previous posters as racist is hugely counter-productive. You probably lost a good chunk of your potential audience by insulting them in your first sentence.

Ok I deleted that line

 

[coolio24567]

If you claim "Hispanic" for admission purposes and you've got a family that has never spoken the language, doesn't know the culture, and is from a country that is generally regarded as non-Hispanic, you will be viewed as disingenuous. It's pretty easy to see through someone's attempts to claim URM status for admission purposes. Best story I ever heard in regard to this sort of situation was about a guy who claimed to be Hispanic and that claimed to speak fluent Spanish when he was actually very, very white. There was a Hispanic person on the admissions staff that walked into the room, sat down, and started conducting the interview in Spanish. The guy didn't speak a word of it aside from what he learned at a summer medical Spanish course. Needless to say, the interview did not go well

If you claim Hispanic as your identity, they will question you in regard to it. If you were well integrated into your local Hispanic community and could defend your decision to choose "Hispanic" then it might fly, but that is a hard thing to do if you're just BSing the adcoms.

Why don't you just like, apply with your qualifications and be honest and hope you get in? What's wrong with that?

There are TONS of people with skin much whiter than mine and are Hispanic and speak Spanish fluently, so light skin color doesn't mean non-Hispanic. Just because most people don't know about the history of the Philippines doesn't mean Filipinos aren't Hispanic.

"Why don't you just like, apply with your qualifications and be honest and hope you get in? What's wrong with that?"
Do you tell that to traditional URMs like Blacks, Native Americans, and Mexicans, who traditionally have lower stats, as well? There would be even less of them in medical school without affirmative action. Do you want a monolith physician workforce where ethnicities that have the most applicants dominate the physician workforce?

 

[Mad Jack]

There are TONS of people who are much whiter than mine and are Hispanic and speak Spanish fluently, so light skin color doesn't mean non-Hispanic. Just because most people don't know about the history of the Philippines doesn't mean Filipinos aren't Hispanic.

"Why don't you just like, apply with your qualifications and be honest and hope you get in? What's wrong with that?"
Do you tell that to traditional URMs like Blacks, Native Americans, and Mexicans, who traditionally have lower stats, as well? There would be even less of them in medical school without affirmative action. Do you want a monolith physician workforce where ethnicities that have the most applicants dominate the physician workforce?

I didn't say light skin color doesn't make you not Hispanic. I said that the guy in my example happened to be the whitest WASP in Whitesville and claimed to be Hispanic when he wasn't. You aren't Hispanic for a different reason, that being that Filipinos are not, nor have they ever been, Hispanic. The Hispanic heritage refers not just to places colonized by the Spanish, but to a certain set of places colonized by the Spanish in which a large amount of interbreeding with the local population occurred, Spanish supplanted the local languages, Spanish traditions took the place of ancient ones, etc. The PI was never fully assimilated as most of Latin America was. Most of the regional traditions remained intact, the local languages all survived and continue to be spoken to this day, etc. The largest influence left by the Spanish was not their culture, which was largely left behind on their exit, but their religion. The Roman Catholic Church is largely what shaped the PI into what it is today, not the Spanish. This is also why there is a higher rate of intermarriage between Filipinos and Hispanics- it is less to do with common culture, and more to do with a common religion that leads to their mingling in the same places. That Filipinos do not speak Spanish is quite a distinction, by the way, as Hispanic is an ethnolinguistic term, which means it is an ethnicity determined through sharing a common language.

You are adequately represented, as gyngyn has affirmed (via the califorpreviously and statistics and data seem to also confirm. URM means underrepresented in medicine, which you are not. You are adequately represented.

 

[coolio24567]

I didn't say light skin color doesn't make you not Hispanic. I said that the guy in my example happened to be the whitest WASP in Whitesville and claimed to be Hispanic when he wasn't. You aren't Hispanic for a different reason, that being that Filipinos are not, nor have they ever been, Hispanic. The Hispanic heritage refers not just to places colonized by the Spanish, but to a certain set of places colonized by the Spanish in which a large amount of interbreeding with the local population occurred, Spanish supplanted the local languages, Spanish traditions took the place of ancient ones, etc. The PI was never fully assimilated as most of Latin America was. Most of the regional traditions remained intact, the local languages all survived and continue to be spoken to this day, etc. The largest influence left by the Spanish was not their culture, which was largely left behind on their exit, but their religion. The Roman Catholic Church is largely what shaped the PI into what it is today, not the Spanish. This is also why there is a higher rate of intermarriage between Filipinos and Hispanics- it is less to do with common culture, and more to do with a common religion that leads to their mingling in the same places. That Filipinos do not speak Spanish is quite a distinction, by the way, as Hispanic is an ethnolinguistic term, which means it is an ethnicity determined through sharing a common language.

You are adequately represented, as gyngyn has affirmed (via the califorpreviously and statistics and data seem to also confirm. URM means underrepresented in medicine, which you are not. You are adequately represented.

Tell that to UC Irvine and University of Utah. At the very least, there is regional underrepresentation of Filipinos in medicine. Many schools don't realize this. That is the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Mad Jack]

Tell that to UC Irvine and University of Utah. At the very least, there is regional underrepresentation of Filipinos in medicine. Many schools don't realize this. That is the point I'm trying to make.

In certain regions, Filipinos are underrepresented in medicine. That doesn't mean that they are as a whole in the United States. Feel free to apply to those schools where you are considered a URM. The rest will largely (and rightfully, in most geographic areas) consider you ORM, as Filipinos are largely ORM on a national scale.

 

[coolio24567]

In certain regions, Filipinos are underrepresented in medicine. That doesn't mean that they are as a whole in the United States. Feel free to apply to those schools where you are considered a URM. The rest will largely (and rightfully, in most geographic areas) consider you ORM, as Filipinos are largely ORM on a national scale.

Many schools haven't even bothered to check whether or not Filipinos are URM in their area because they lump them in with the rest of Asians. That is the point I'm trying to make.

"The rest will largely (and rightfully, in most geographic areas) consider you ORM"
Have you done a geographic analysis of Filipino representation in medicine? If not, then that's BS you just made up.

 

[Mad Jack]

Many schools haven't even bothered to check whether or not Filipinos are URM in their area because they lump them in with the rest of Asians.

"The rest will largely (and rightfully, in most geographic areas) consider you ORM"
Have you done a geographic analysis of Filipino representation in medicine? If not, then that's BS you just made up.

The vast majority of the Filipino population lives in California and Hawaii. Most medical schools are not located in California or Hawaii, so when they're looking at URM status of Filipinos, they're looking at it nationally. You are nationally substantially overrepresented. You make up 8% of all currently practicing IMGs in the country, plus the 5k and change US educated Filipinos. You do not in any way deserve the URM designation at this time.

 

[coolio24567]

The vast majority of the Filipino population lives in California and Hawaii. Most medical schools are not located in California or Hawaii, so when they're looking at URM status of Filipinos, they're looking at it nationally. You are nationally substantially overrepresented. You make up 8% of all currently practicing IMGs in the country, plus the 5k and change US educated Filipinos. You do not in any way deserve the URM designation at this time.

There are 14.785 Filipino-trained IMG physicians, yet the UCSF study shows that ethnic Filipinos from IMG only make up 2.5% of California's 109,000 physician workforce (page 10, figure 3). That's about 2,700 physicians in the state with a HUGE portion of Filipino IMG grads, far from the 14,785 claimed. This disparity is due to non-ethnic Filipinos trained at Filipino medical schools, who came to the US. The overall percent of ethnic Filipino U.S. physicians who trained in Philippine medical schools is a low percentage that's just waiting to be uncovered and you're being a dick about it.

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

Do you plan on serving in an area where Filipino's are underrepresented?

Moreover OP, you have no tact. I think you should try to be a little less emotional and a little more objective. These subjects, and many others in life, are delicate by their very nature. I think it is futile to argue with people, especially with the reputable Mad Jack, unless you are respectful and open to different perspectives. A large part of maturation is being able to play Devil's advocate and remaining open to the possibility of being wrong. Physicians are scientific, and part of the profession is being wrong, and then learning from mistakes. You will quickly learn--as I had to do myself--that SDN is not the place for obscenities or name calling; you will get shut down with intelligent rhetoric. Especially if you are seeking counseling.
Consider yourself lucky you have a resource like SDN. Don't squander it.

 

[coolio24567]

I am making an argument for why my ethnicity is underrepresented and he posts a Willy Wonka clip saying "You get nothing!", and you say I'm the one who is being obscene? I've just proven that there are at least 2 medical schools that recognize Filipinos as URM and am trying to make the point that not all medical schools consider Filipinos separately, and he's just knocking down my ethnicity by saying they shouldn't get affirmative action anywhere else. I'm advocating for schools to perform an analysis of whether or not Filipinos are URM in their area and he's trying to stop it. (perhaps he has vested interest in there being a displacement of Filipinos by other Asian ORM groups?)

Do you plan on serving in an area where Filipino's are underrepresented?

Moreover OP, you have no tact. I think you should try to be a little less emotional and a little more objective. These subjects, and many others in life, are delicate by their very nature. I think it is futile to argue with people, especially with the reputable Mad Jack, unless you are respectful and open to different perspectives. A large part of maturation is being able to play Devil's advocate and remaining open to the possibility of being wrong. Physicians are scientific, and part of the profession is being wrong, and then learning from mistakes. You will quickly learn--as I had to do myself--that SDN is not the place for obscenities or name calling; you will get shut down with intelligent rhetoric. Especially if you are seeking counseling.
Consider yourself lucky you have a resource like SDN. Don't squander this resource.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Your ignorance is showing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines#Spanish_colonization

I have never denied that the Spanish colonized Philippines, but that doesn't make you Hispanic.

I don't know why filipinos can't get their own identity. I remember in High School they'd like to say they are "Pacific Islanders" instead of Asian.

Filipinos are simply not URM. Even if you "convinced" us, that won't change how schools treat you. If Hispanics from Argentina, Colombia, etc. don't even get a URM push 95% of the time, filipinos are the last to hope they'd get something for "being Hispanic."

 

[texan2414]

Dude just retake the mcat and bolster your application. Then u won't have to rely on your pseudo-URM status.

 

[coolio24567]

Yeah I'm sure you tell that to all the Blacks, Mexicans, and Natives out there with lower stats.

It's not pseudo-URM, it's URM. Most med schools just haven't looked at Filipinos separately because they're "Asian", and there's a ton of Asians in medicine.

Dude just retake the mcat and bolster your application. Then u won't have to rely on your pseudo-URM status.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

HAHAHA

 

[texan2414]

Its funny how you think race and ethnicity automatically opens doors for you to medicine. My gut tells me you have very little to NO idea about the role of diversity inclusion in admissions processes.
Btw I know many of the URM applicants with 34-35 MCAT who have had to deal with some of the most challenging obstacles in their lives. Also, admissions processes is not as warped as you make it out to be for URM applicants. At the end of the day, personal statements, ECs, LORs and interview recommendations matter more so than academic metrics for anyone, regardless of their ORM/URM status.

 

[coolio24567]

If medical schools are claiming to be so "diverse", then why did 51 medical schools accept 0 Filipinos last year, when they are the second largest Asian minority in the United States? That's over a third of U.S. medical schools who don't have a single representative for 3.4 million people in the U.S. population. Most medical schools accept somewhere between 5-20 Indian/Chinese applicants though. Just check the MSAR. "Diversity"? Sounds more like "Asian Displacement".

I'm advocating for schools like these to consider Filipinos separately from other Asians.

Also, I never said that URM puts you ahead by leaps and bounds. I think that the most qualified individuals WITHIN an ethnicity should be chosen, otherwise everyone gets displaced by the ethnicities with the most applicants, and therefore the most highly qualified applicants, and medicine become a monolith.

Those URM applicants with 34-35 MCATs are a higher percentile within their own race than non-URM's with 34-35s would be within their own race. There's fewer of them to go around. Therefore medical schools have to dig a little deeper and accept lower stats for URMs if they want to have a diverse class. These are the people who I was referring to when I asked if you tell them to "just retake the MCAT and bolster your app". There's obviously very qualified applicants of every race/ethnicity.

Its funny how you think race and ethnicity automatically opens doors for you to medicine. My gut tells me you have very little to NO idea about the role of diversity inclusion in admissions processes.
Btw I know many of the URM applicants with 34-35 MCAT who have had to deal with some of the most challenging obstacles in their lives. Also, admissions processes is not as warped as you make it out to be for URM applicants. At the end of the day, personal statements, ECs, LORs and interview recommendations matter more so than academic metrics for anyone, regardless of their ORM/URM status.

 

[RedPhys]

Although Spanish culture didn't spread into the philipines as much as it did in some Latin American countries, there were some regions of the philipines that did.

Generations lived and died speaking Spanish. A lot of their national history and works is written in Spanish, and the lasting influence can be seen in their last names (which, funny enough IMO, are mispronounced by the younger generation that has almost zero grounding in Spanish, as the Philippines has been using English for the past ~100 yrs). Some dialects, such as Chavacano, are heavily influenced by Spanish. Good article on Spanish language in the Philippines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language_in_the_Philippines

That said, I wouldn't consider it right for someone from the Philippines to mark down Hispanic.

 

[RedPhys]

I feel like the Hispanic URM designation should really emphasize the language more than the ethnicity. At my clinic, we are constantly in need of fluent speakers who can identify medical issues with Spanish-speaking patients, regardless of whether they are Mexican or Filipino.

Amen to that. Volunteering in a hospital where none of the doctors are fluent in Spanish, and most of the patients speak in Spanish or limited English, having someone who is fluent in Spanish can really bring the patient some relief.

 

[Mad Jack]

There are 14.785 Filipino-trained IMG physicians, yet the UCSF study shows that ethnic Filipinos from IMG only make up 2.5% of California's 109,000 physician workforce (page 10, figure 3). That's about 2,700 physicians in the state with a HUGE portion of Filipino IMG grads, far from the 14,785 claimed. This disparity is due to non-ethnic Filipinos trained at Filipino medical schools, who came to the US. The overall percent of ethnic Filipino U.S. physicians who trained in Philippine medical schools is a low percentage that's just waiting to be uncovered and you're being a dick about it.

You have literally no proof of this. Like I said, I can give you the emails of a few professors that have been teaching in the PI for over 30 years that will verify you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[coolio24567]

You have literally no proof of this. Like I said, I can give you the emails of a few professors that have been teaching in the PI for over 30 years that will verify you have no idea what you're talking about.

If a state where the majority of Filipinos reside has only 2700 IMG Filipinos, then there's a good chance that the other 12,000 aren't spread elsewhere. We have no "proof" that the NFL is causing players brain damage, but there is very strong evidence for it. Those with a vested interest against ending football (the NFL) make claims similar to yours of "no proof". I think you're just fighting against such a glaring piece of evidence and demanding absolute proof because you have a vested interest in Filipinos being displaced.
The number of ethnic Filipino IMG U.S. Physicians just needs to be found to throw your whole argument out the window. And trust me, I'm looking for it.

 

[Mad Jack]

If a state where the majority of Filipinos reside has only 2700 IMG Filipinos, then there's a good chance that the other 12,000 aren't spread elsewhere. We have no "proof" that the NFL is causing players brain damage, but there is very strong evidence for it. Those with a vested interest against ending football (the NFL) make claims similar to yours of "no proof". I think you're just fighting against such a glaring piece of evidence and demanding absolute proof because you have a vested interest in Filipinos being displaced.
The number just needs to be found to throw your whole argument out the window.

Physicians tend to be distributed more widely than their ethnic populations would lead one to expect. Go to a rural hospital sometime, I'll guarantee you that 9 times out of 10 some of the only Asian people in town work there. This is largely a result of them settling down during the years they have to wait for a green card, which has typically required rural or underserved practice for 5 years, but policies have changed over the decades. Basically, IMGs tend to be less concentrated than typical members of their community overall.

The total number of physicians graduated by all Caribbean schools combined that are currently practicing is less than 13,000, and yet you're claiming that the majority of the 15,000 people with Philippines degrees are coming from the US? That's just ignorant. How many white physicians have you ever met that were educated in the PI? I know there are a few, but I've never seen one. You can find a Filipino trained Filipino easily, and an IMG easily. Please, find me five, just FIVE non-Filipino physicians that were educated in the PI as examples. I can post THOUSANDS of Carib grads in seconds, they're easy as hell to dig up because they're everywhere. If there were as many white people running around with PI diplomas as you claim, they would be as common as Carib grads, which is not the case.

Anyway, I'm done with this conversation. You're not a URM, you don't deserve URM status, have a good life, good luck.

 

[texan2414]

Yeah I'm sure you tell that to all the Blacks, Mexicans, and Natives out there with lower stats.

It's not pseudo-URM, it's URM. Most med schools just haven't looked at Filipinos separately because they're "Asian", and there's a ton of Asians in medicine.

No, I'm telling this to YOU specifically.

If you're really serious about your assertions, why not hire a lawyer and start suing the medical schools for disproportional admission standards when it comes to diversity.

 

[coolio24567]

No, I'm telling this to YOU specifically.

If you're really serious about your assertions, why not hire a lawyer and start suing the medical schools for disproportional admission standards when it comes to diversity.

Or I can advocate for it on a public forum where many people who have influence on medical school admissions will see it.

Physicians tend to be distributed more widely than their ethnic populations would lead one to expect. Go to a rural hospital sometime, I'll guarantee you that 9 times out of 10 some of the only Asian people in town work there. This is largely a result of them settling down during the years they have to wait for a green card, which has typically required rural or underserved practice for 5 years, but policies have changed over the decades. Basically, IMGs tend to be less concentrated than typical members of their community overall.

The total number of physicians graduated by all Caribbean schools combined that are currently practicing is less than 13,000, and yet you're claiming that the majority of the 15,000 people with Philippines degrees are coming from the US? That's just ignorant. How many white physicians have you ever met that were educated in the PI? I know there are a few, but I've never seen one. You can find a Filipino trained Filipino easily, and an IMG easily. Please, find me five, just FIVE non-Filipino physicians that were educated in the PI as examples. I can post THOUSANDS of Carib grads in seconds, they're easy as hell to dig up because they're everywhere. If there were as many white people running around with PI diplomas as you claim, they would be as common as Carib grads, which is not the case.

Anyway, I'm done with this conversation. You're not a URM, you don't deserve URM status, have a good life, good luck.

But you have no proof.

 

[Mad Jack]

Or I can advocate for it on a public forum where many people who have influence on medical school admissions will see it.



But you have no proof.

You also have no proof. My anecdotes are far more sound than yours though.

And none of this matters because you're ORM, and you're going to have to deal with it. How you feel about the fairness of that doesn't matter, because it is what it is and no one cares.

 

[gyngyn]

Or I can advocate for it on a public forum where many people who have influence on medical school admissions will see it.

You may rest assured that the CA MD schools, both public and private, re-visit this as well as other workforce issues at least 2 or 3 times a year.

 

[coolio24567]

You may rest assured that the CA MD schools, both public and private, re-visit this as well as other workforce issues at least 2 or 3 times a year.

Now if only the rest of the schools in the U.S. did this.

 

[Lucca]

Now if only the rest of the schools in the U.S. did this.

I'm sure they do. I don't think the picture that people on SDN paint on here as Med School administrators sitting behind their mahogany desks having it out for specific groups of people is very accurate. It's horribly, terribly wrong probably.

 

[sundancing]

Hispanic origin is independent of race.

If you don't think it's dependent on race, then why do you keep bringing up the fact that Filipinos have Spanish DNA and that's why they're Hispanic?

 

[coolio24567]

I'm sure they do. I don't think the picture that people on SDN paint on here as Med School administrators sitting behind their mahogany desks having it out for specific groups of people is very accurate. It's horribly, terribly wrong probably.

Then why did 51 US MD schools accept 0 Filipinos last year? I went through the MSAR and made a spreadsheet with every school and how many Filipinos they accepted. CA schools were generally better, but there's a lot of states with 0 or 1 Filipino admits in the whole state.

 

[gyngyn]

Now if only the rest of the schools in the U.S. did this.

I'm sure they do. I only referred to CA because I have participated in this process and can attest to it for our state.

The situation for Filipino applicants more closely parallels that of Cubans than other Asian ethnicities.
Whether they identify as "Hispanic" or not, their communities tend to be at or above parity largely due to the physicians who fled their home countries. The reasons for their exodus differ but the result is that their communities count many fine physicians working in the US with language and cultural skills that make them very desirable members of those communities.

 

[coolio24567]

If you don't think it's dependent on race, then why do you keep bringing up the fact that Filipinos have Spanish DNA and that's why they're Hispanic?

I'm saying that being of a certain race doesn't preclude you from being Hispanic. Any race (including Asians) can have Spanish blood and culture in it.

 

[coolio24567]

I'm sure they do. I only referred to CA because I have participated in this process and can attest to it for our state.

The situation for Filipino applicants more closely parallels that of Cubans than other Asian ethnicities.
Whether they identify as "Hispanic" or not, their communities tend to be at or above parity largely due to the physicians who fled their home countries. The reasons for their exodus differ but the result is that their communities count many fine physicians working in the US with language and cultural skills that make them very desirable members of those communities.

Then why did 51 US MD schools accept 0 Filipinos last year? I went through the MSAR and made a spreadsheet with every school and how many Filipinos they accepted. CA schools were generally better, but there's a lot of states with 0 or 1 Filipino admits in the whole state. Where's the "diversity" in medical schools if so many schools apparently don't want Filipinos, who are the second largest Asian American minority?

Here's the list of 51 US MD schools with 0 Filipino admits last year, according to the MSAR:
South Alabama
Stanford
University of Connecticut
Howard University
University of Florida
Medical College of Georgia
Mercer
Morehouse
Loyola
Northwestern
University of Chicago
Iowa
Kentucky
LSU-New Orleans
Maryland
Harvard
Central Michigan
Oakland
Mayo
Minnesota
University of Mississippi
St Louis University
Missouri-Columbia
Missouri-Kansas City
Cooper Medical school
Robert Wood Johnson
Hofstra
Mount Sinai
NYMC
Cornell
Duke
UNC Chapel Hill
Wake Forest
North Dakota
Case Western
Northeast Ohio
Ohio State
Oklahmoa
Ponce
San Juan Bautista
Central Universidad del Caribbean
Puerto Rico
Medical University of South Carolina
South Carolina- Greenville
South Dakota
East Tennessee State University
Meharry
Texas Tech-Lubbock
University of Texas -Houston
University of Virginia
West Virginia University

I could do the same for Indians and Chinese and I assure you those lists would be much smaller.

 

[Mad Jack]

Then why did 51 US MD schools accept 0 Filipinos last year? I went through the MSAR and made a spreadsheet with every school and how many Filipinos they accepted. CA schools were generally better, but there's a lot of states with 0 or 1 Filipino admits in the whole state.

There's also several schools that take a lot of Filipino applicants. Filipinos aren't URM, so they get no boost in the application process and get in based on pure merit. Regardless, it doesn't matter. Admissions aren't supposed to perfectly reflect the ethnic and racial makeup of the USA. URM policies are designed to correct existing disparities that exist, such as the appallingly low number of AA physicians currently practicing. There are enough practicing Filipino physicians between FMGs and US grads that there currently is no disparity. When there is one because too few Filipino applicants have been selected, then that will be addressed.

 

[coolio24567]

There's also several schools that take a lot of Filipino applicants. Filipinos aren't URM, so they get no boost in the application process and get in based on pure merit. Regardless, it doesn't matter. Admissions aren't supposed to perfectly reflect the ethnic and racial makeup of the USA. URM policies are designed to correct existing disparities that exist, such as the appallingly low number of AA physicians currently practicing. There are enough practicing Filipino physicians between FMGs and US grads that there currently is no disparity. When there is one because too few Filipino applicants have been selected, then that will be addressed.

Even if that were true, which it isn't, then these medical schools should remove "having a diverse class", or any permutation of that statement, from their mission statement/values, etc., because they're not representing one of the largest minority groups in the U.S. in their class.

 

[texan2414]

Lol this guy is impossible.

You can sense the desperation here.

 

[coolio24567]

It's not desperation, it's making a freaking point. If California schools do it, then others should too.

Lol this guy is impossible.

You can sense the desperation here.

 

[texan2414]

It's not desperation, it's making a freaking point. If California schools do it, then others should too.

Don't you have better things to do if you want to make yourself a more competitive applicant? Like going back to MCAT study or continuing your ECs? Or how about go present shopping for your family for Christmas

Srsly you're setting yourself up for major disappointment if you rely on your "URM" status alone to get you into med school.

 

[coolio24567]

Who said I was doing this for personal gain? What if I genuinely care about the representation of my ethnicity in medicine? What if the fact that I've never seen a Filipino doctor in my lifetime means I've never had a role-model? What if a Filipino undergraduate student at one of those medical schools decides "as a Filipino, it must be impossible to get into medical school" after seeing none at their school, so they decide not to pursue medicine? There are much bigger issues than me getting URM designation. These are issues that represented ethnicities don't have to face. Filipinos need to be represented in U.S. medical schools.

Don't you have better things to do if you want to make yourself a more competitive applicant? Like going back to MCAT study or continuing your ECs? Or how about go present shopping for your family for Christmas

Srsly you're setting yourself up for major disappointment if you rely on your "URM" status alone to get you into med school.