URM?

[bobeanie95]

Hey everyone I wanted to get some input regarding URM. I was looking through old threads but I couldn't find any that applied to me. I understand that the definition of URM depends on a school to school basis but I am just looking for some general input. I was born and raised in Argentina for half my life. I speak fluent Spanish as it was my first language growing up. I'm involved in teaching and volunteering in poor communities where the population is predominantly Hispanic. Any feedback is appreciated!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[LizzyM]

Apply and self-identify as you would on the US Census. Your place of birth will be listed on your application and the languages you speak and with what fluency will be listed as well. Your employment and community service may be listed in the experience section but is not mandatory. Each school will decide for itself how to weigh that information in making a holistic evaluation of your application.

 

[banthapug]

Hey everyone I wanted to get some input regarding URM. I was looking through old threads but I couldn't find any that applied to me. I understand that the definition of URM depends on a school to school basis but I am just looking for some general input. I was born and raised in Argentina for half my life. I speak fluent Spanish as it was my first language growing up. I'm involved in teaching and volunteering in poor communities where the population is predominantly Hispanic. Any feedback is appreciated!

I think it depends. If you identify yourself as URM you are going to be expected to speak to the struggles of underserved Hispanic Americans. They want people who know what it's like to be from that community and who is likely to serve that community. So if you think who you are is underrepresented in medicine, do identify yourself as URM - but be ready to write/talk about it.

 

[Frogger27]

Each school is very different. I am hispanic from a country that on SDN everyone says is not URM/ I have been invited to interview at two schools who sent me diversity information after II, so I know that it played some factor. I am assuming your upbringing and culture is important to you, so make sure to frame your application that way. Best of Luck!

 

[bobeanie95]

@LizzyM @Frogger27 @banthapug Thank you everyone for all your feedback, it's really helpful! I really appreciate it

 

[Turkishking]

Hey everyone I wanted to get some input regarding URM. I was looking through old threads but I couldn't find any that applied to me. I understand that the definition of URM depends on a school to school basis but I am just looking for some general input. I was born and raised in Argentina for half my life. I speak fluent Spanish as it was my first language growing up. I'm involved in teaching and volunteering in poor communities where the population is predominantly Hispanic. Any feedback is appreciated!

LizzyM has the correct answer.

 

[mypuggy]

I think it depends. If you identify yourself as URM you are going to be expected to speak to the struggles of underserved Hispanic Americans. They want people who know what it's like to be from that community and who is likely to serve that community. So if you think who you are is underrepresented in medicine, do identify yourself as URM - but be ready to write/talk about it.

hey, What does URM mean? and when do we use it?

 

[VeitVat]

Argentina and Brazil can be pretty interesting in that you can have these Caucasian/European looking people with German last names brought up in the upper middle class and only a couple of generations separated from German WW2 Axis refugees. And at least in the case of one colleague of mine applied as URM after being raised in the US. It worked for him, lol.

 

[LizzyM]

hey, What does URM mean? and when do we use it?

Welcome to SDN!

URM means Under-represented in Medicine.

If you choose to report your race and ethnicity on your AMCAS applications, each school will use that information to determine if you meet that school's definition of URM.

 

[Goro]

Argentinians are't considered by URM by med schools and it's more likely that the candidate was accepted on other merits.

Argentina and Brazil can be pretty interesting in that you can have these Caucasian/European looking people with German last names brought up in the upper middle class and only a couple of generations separated from German WW2 Axis refugees. And at least in the case of one colleague of mine applied as URM after being raised in the US. It worked for him, lol.

 

[bobeanie95]

Argentinians are't considered by URM by med schools and it's more likely that the candidate was accepted on other merits.

Why wouldn't Argentinians be considered URM? Is this common thinking across all medical schools?

 

[deev04]

Why wouldn't Argentinians be considered URM? Is this common thinking across all medical schools?

URM= Underrepresented in Medicine. Not underrepresented in the US Population, so not all populations that are minorities in the US population are considered URM. For example, most Asian populations are pretty dramatically overrepresented in medicine, meaning that relative to their proportion in the US population (~5-6%), they make up a significantly higher percentage of US physicians (almost 25%).

Certain medical schools designate specific populations to be UiM (I think this also stands for underrepresented in medicine?) and recruit accordingly. These are usually local populations that are medically underserved in the community around the school.

URM typically refers to Blacks, Mexican-Americans, Native Americans (that is, American Indians, Alaska Natives, and Native Hawaiians), and mainland Puerto Ricans.

And yes, this is common. I actually think Argentines might be overrepresented in medicine relative to their proportion in the US population.

 

[bobeanie95]

The AAMC defines URM: "Underrepresented in medicine means those racial and ethnic populations that are underrepresented in the medical profession relative to their numbers in the general population."

The definition is specific to race and ethnicity. Argentinian is the nationality and Hispanic is the ethnicity. So an Argentinian can self-identify as a Hispanic on the AMCAS.

 

[deev04]

The definition is specific to race and ethnicity. Argentinian is the nationality and Hispanic is the ethnicity. So an Argentinian can self-identify as a Hispanic on the AMCAS

"Underrepresented in medicine means those racial and ethnic populations that are underrepresented in the medical profession relative to their numbers in the general population."

Argentines are over represented in medicine relative to their numbers in the general population. So, identifying as Hispanic (which would be accurate) on AMCAS does nothing to change the fact that argentines are not underrepresented in medicine and thus not URM. Not all Hispanics are URM. You can be an ethnicity/race (and identity as such on AMCAS) that is a minority in the US population and not be URM. It's as simple as that.

 

[gyngyn]

The AAMC defines URM: "Underrepresented in medicine means those racial and ethnic populations that are underrepresented in the medical profession relative to their numbers in the general population."

The definition is specific to race and ethnicity. Argentinian is the nationality and Hispanic is the ethnicity. So an Argentinian can self-identify as a Hispanic on the AMCAS.

Yes, you can self-describe as Hispanic.
Many Hispanic groups are not under-represented in medicine. Each school makes this determination.
Language skills are still appreciated, though.

 

[LizzyM]

Each school makes its own determination of what the school counts as URM. Check the box(es) that apply to your race and ethnicity and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Goro]

It's fine if you do this, but you won't get any benefit for being this type of Hispanic. Spanish language skills are always welcome, though.

The AAMC defines URM: "Underrepresented in medicine means those racial and ethnic populations that are underrepresented in the medical profession relative to their numbers in the general population."

The definition is specific to race and ethnicity. Argentinian is the nationality and Hispanic is the ethnicity. So an Argentinian can self-identify as a Hispanic on the AMCAS.

 

[bobeanie95]

It's fine if you do this, but you won't get any benefit for being this type of Hispanic. Spanish language skills are always welcome, though.

Thanks for the clarification, so at the end it really is up to the school. Also, I speak Spanish fluently and I have used it in a medical setting as a medical interpreter.

 

[deev04]

Thanks for the clarification, so at the end it really is up to the school. Also, I speak Spanish fluently and I have used it in a medical setting as a medical interpreter.

Yes, the changes to the AAMC's definition of URM were meant to make it so schools could decide based on not just who is URM nationally, but who is UiM within their own communities. For example, there are certain Asian populations that considered UiM at particular schools (Hmong, Cambodian at certain CA schools) along with certain Latinx/Hispanic populations (I've only heard of central american and dominican pops at certain schools).

With regards to Argentine populations, I'm almost certain no school considers them to be URM/UiM. Argentines might actually be overrepresented in medicine in the US as many Argentine doctors have immigrated to the US. This does not at all mean that you should not emphasize your heritage if it is an important aspect of your identity. Just because you are not URM, does not mean that a school will not value the diversity that you bring as an individual to their school. That's why schools have a diversity essay. They are not looking for merely I am x ethnicity, y gender identity, etc. They want to know what you as an individual will add to their medical school community. Your language skills will likely be viewed as a huge plus since many spanish-speaking populations are medically underserved (even if not your own community).

 

[tekkenman11]

Yes, the changes to the AAMC's definition of URM were meant to make it so schools could decide based on not just who is URM nationally, but who is UiM within their own communities. For example, there are certain Asian populations that considered UiM at particular schools (Hmong, Cambodian at certain CA schools) along with certain Latinx/Hispanic populations (I've only heard of central american and dominican pops at certain schools).

With regards to Argentine populations, I'm almost certain no school considers them to be URM/UiM. Argentines might actually be overrepresented in medicine in the US as many Argentine doctors have immigrated to the US. This does not at all mean that you should not emphasize your heritage if it is an important aspect of your identity. Just because you are not URM, does not mean that a school will not value the diversity that you bring as an individual to their school. That's why schools have a diversity essay. They are not looking for merely I am x ethnicity, y gender identity, etc. They want to know what you as an individual will add to their medical school community. Your language skills will likely be viewed as a huge plus since many spanish-speaking populations are medically underserved (even if not your own community).

I sincerely doubt no school considers Argentinians URM/UiM. There is a reason why the AAMC broadened the definition post-2003 and allowed schools to do their own thing. It is a fact that South Americans have proportionally less doctors in the U.S than Asians and Whites. This means there are plenty of schools where that works. I applied as a Colombian and I was perceived as URM status by several schools when I spoke to them. Not to mention the AAMC gave me no trouble with labeling myself as such. All of them were eager to talk about what I could bring to the Latino communities.

Number of Latino doctors isn't keeping pace with population, study says

The US Needs More Hispanic Medical Students - Northwestern Now

Distribution of Medical School Graduates by Race/Ethnicity

All of these statistics take into account more than just Mexican/Puerto Rican-Americans. Anyone who is Latino will have an advantage in terms of their background when applying to medical school regardless of whether they're from Mexico or Argentina. To say otherwise demonstrates a severe lack of perception in regards to the growing number of underserved and marginalized Latinx individuals.

 

[Frogger27]

Everyone told me I wouldn't be considered URM for being Ecuadorian, but after seeing my cycle unfold, it turns out I was considered URM by the schools. Like it was previously stated, if you are Latino and can speak on the struggles that face underprivileged Latino communities, you will probably considered URM


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

The way my cycle turned out, I think I also got a substantial boost from being Latino (non-URM according to SDN).

 

[Lawpy]

The US Census is a horrible measure of racial demographics. Here is the definition of race per their website:

The racial categories included in the census questionnaire generally reflect a social definition of race recognized in this country and not an attempt to define race biologically, anthropologically, or genetically. In addition, it is recognized that the categories of the race item include racial and national origin or sociocultural groups. People may choose to report more than one race to indicate their racial mixture, such as “American Indian” and “White.” People who identify their origin as Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish may be of any race.

Here is the definition of Asian:

A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

There are vast sociocultural differences among a South Asian (India, Pakistan), Southeast Asian (Thailand, Philippines) and East Asian (China, Japan, Korea). A basic course in sociology will illustrate these differences.

With that said, URM designation is determined by medical schools. URM means the proportion of physicians of a specific racial demographic is significantly lower than proportion of population of that demographic. So there is a major need for physicians of that demographic to provide healthcare for patient needs since sociocultural factors are important for patient care.

Spanish is an essential language to learn and become proficient due to a large Spanish speaking population. Because sociocultural factors matter, Latinos are sought after applicants. Using the definition of URM mentioned above may show that South Americans like Argentines, Peruvians, Ecuadorians etc are not strictly URM, but their Latino designation and closer sociocultural connections with Mexicans and Puerto Ricans cannot be overlooked.

I'd probably anticipate a similar URM boost in your application cycle because of sociocultural importance.

 

[deev04]

As stated above, I think language skills are something that matter, particularly given that latinos are one of the most medically underserved populations in the United States.

The definition of URM was intentionally broadened to encourage schools to look beyond traditional URM-designated groups to the communities within their own regions that are medically underserved and underrepresented within medicine. Many hispanic populations besides Mexicans and Puerto-Ricans fit this expanded definition and schools frequently include them in their diversity initiatives. Being Dominican, for instance, will likely be viewed favorably if you were applying to Colombia (or another NYC school) or a school in Boston. Many California schools already adopt expanded definitions of URM that included certain SE Asian populations. As other central/south american populations continue to increase, I imagine schools will look favorably upon applicants from these communities as well (e.g Ecuadorian, as noted above, Honduran, Guatemalan, Salvadorian). People within these communities are also more likely to come from immigrant/low SES/disadvantaged educational backgrounds, which are all factors that contribute to a holistic evaluation of an application.

Argentinians are a unique case though. Argentinians and Argentinian-Americans, in particular, are demographically and socioeconomically distinct from most other Central/South American populations.. When talking about URM, which is looking at whether a community is underrepresented in the US healthcare system or is medically underserved in the US, Argentinian-immigrants are pretty dissimilar as a population to almost all other latino/hispanic populations in the US, and certainly the ones typically considered URM. Argentina was one of the richest countries in the world for the past century (until the recent crisis). It also experienced a huge influx of fairly well off European emigrants, including many Jewish immigrants (largest Jewish population in South America). This, among other things, led to Argentina being a fairly well off and decently well educated country. More importantly (for URM), the majority of Argentinians who immigrated to the US were in this educated class, including a large population of doctors, making Argentinians very overrepresented in the physicians workforce relative to their population in the US (ORM). This also means that the Argentinian-American population has much higher levels of SES than nearly all other hispanic/latino populations in the US. They are not medically underserved, economically disadvantaged, or URM as a class and quite dissimilar to the many latino populations in the US that are.

Doesn't mean an adcom won't appreciate the cultural and linguistic diversity an Argentinian applicant brings to a class.

Interesting Stats from 2015 Census. Argentinians have higher rates of educational attainment than White Americans and most other hispanic/latino groups:
Argentinians- 40.1% have Bachelor's Degree or Higher, 19.8% Graduate/Professional Degree, 11.2% Poverty Rate
White Americans- 31.9% Bachelors, 12.0% Graduate/Professional, 12.2% Poverty
Ecuadorians- 20.1% Bachelors, 6.0% Graduate/Professional, 17.2% Poverty
Puerto Ricans- 18.4% Bachelors, 6.1% Graduate/Professional, 24.6% Poverty
Dominicans-17.4% Bachelors, 4.6% Graduate/Professional 26.7% Poverty
Mexicans-10.8% Bachelors, 3.0% Graduate/Professional, 23.5% Poverty
Salvadorians- 9% Bachelors, 2.0% Graduate/Professional, 19.9% Poverty

 

[Frogger27]

@deev04 Same goes for Cuban-Americans. They have 30%+ Bachelors and other stats that are much higher than other hispanic subgroups. Your point that "Doesn't mean an adcom won't appreciate the cultural and linguistic diversity an Argentinian applicant brings to a class." is 100% true and sometimes get overlooked on SDN because they technically do not count as "URM". Schools want to build a diverse class and also want to check that box of having more hispanic/diverse students (cough, cough, Mizzou). Having a strong association with a hispanic culture (50%) is an advantage in this process.

 

[deev04]

@deev04 Same goes for Cuban-Americans. They have 30%+ Bachelors and other stats that are much higher than other hispanic subgroups. Your point that "Doesn't mean an adcom won't appreciate the cultural and linguistic diversity an Argentinian applicant brings to a class." is 100% true and sometimes get overlooked on SDN because they technically do not count as "URM". Schools want to build a diverse class and also want to check that box of having more hispanic/diverse students (cough, cough, Mizzou). Having a strong association with a hispanic culture (50%) is an advantage in this process.

Cubans are fairly well educated relative to other Latino/hispanic subpopulations (although with similarly high rates of non-English speakers), but are typically poorer and less educated than white Americans. Their history/immigration arc is also pretty distinct from other latinos.

Agree 100% with your second part. I think I said this above, but there is a reason many secondaries have a diversity prompt and this prompt is not looking for a list of your demographic characteristic. Schools are looking to create a diverse class in ways outside of URM. URM is a specific mission focused on fulfilling the unmet needs of the US health system, but schools want interesting, diverse classes outside of demographic markers. Just because you are not URM, does not mean that a school does not value the diversity you bring in terms of cultural or linguistic backgrounds, your ECs, research, interesting life experiences, etc. I think being a member of an ORM is probably viewed similarly to being a member of any other community or interest group or activity. The school is interested in how that activity/background has shaped you as a person and informed your perspective as a future physician.

Being a white person who lived in a different country which sparked your interest in x local disease problem will be exciting to an adcom if it was exciting to you. Being Argentinian and feeling connected to your language and culture which motivated you to work with latino communities will be interesting to an adcom if you're able to appropriately convey that interest and enthusiasm. Working as a tutor with x community which spurred your interest in doing health research in this community will be interesting... etc etc etc

 

[Goro]

As stated above, I think language skills are something that matter, particularly given that latinos are one of the most medically underserved populations in the United States.

The definition of URM was intentionally broadened to encourage schools to look beyond traditional URM-designated groups to the communities within their own regions that are medically underserved and underrepresented within medicine. Many hispanic populations besides Mexicans and Puerto-Ricans fit this expanded definition and schools frequently include them in their diversity initiatives. Being Dominican, for instance, will likely be viewed favorably if you were applying to Colombia (or another NYC school) or a school in Boston. Many California schools already adopt expanded definitions of URM that included certain SE Asian populations. As other central/south american populations continue to increase, I imagine schools will look favorably upon applicants from these communities as well (e.g Ecuadorian, as noted above, Honduran, Guatemalan, Salvadorian). People within these communities are also more likely to come from immigrant/low SES/disadvantaged educational backgrounds, which are all factors that contribute to a holistic evaluation of an application.

Argentinians are a unique case though. Argentinians and Argentinian-Americans, in particular, are demographically and socioeconomically distinct from most other Central/South American populations.. When talking about URM, which is looking at whether a community is underrepresented in the US healthcare system or is medically underserved in the US, Argentinian-immigrants are pretty dissimilar as a population to almost all other latino/hispanic populations in the US, and certainly the ones typically considered URM. Argentina was one of the richest countries in the world for the past century (until the recent crisis). It also experienced a huge influx of fairly well off European emigrants, including many Jewish immigrants (largest Jewish population in South America). This, among other things, led to Argentina being a fairly well off and decently well educated country. More importantly (for URM), the majority of Argentinians who immigrated to the US were in this educated class, including a large population of doctors, making Argentinians very overrepresented in the physicians workforce relative to their population in the US (ORM). This also means that the Argentinian-American population has much higher levels of SES than nearly all other hispanic/latino populations in the US. They are not medically underserved, economically disadvantaged, or URM as a class and quite dissimilar to the many latino populations in the US that are.

Doesn't mean an adcom won't appreciate the cultural and linguistic diversity an Argentinian applicant brings to a class.

Interesting Stats from 2015 Census. Argentinians have higher rates of educational attainment than White Americans and most other hispanic/latino groups:
Argentinians- 40.1% have Bachelor's Degree or Higher, 19.8% Graduate/Professional Degree, 11.2% Poverty Rate
White Americans- 31.9% Bachelors, 12.0% Graduate/Professional, 12.2% Poverty
Ecuadorians- 20.1% Bachelors, 6.0% Graduate/Professional, 17.2% Poverty
Puerto Ricans- 18.4% Bachelors, 6.1% Graduate/Professional, 24.6% Poverty
Dominicans-17.4% Bachelors, 4.6% Graduate/Professional 26.7% Poverty
Mexicans-10.8% Bachelors, 3.0% Graduate/Professional, 23.5% Poverty
Salvadorians- 9% Bachelors, 2.0% Graduate/Professional, 19.9% Poverty

A very dear Argentinian friend one told me that she considered her countrymen "a bunch of Italians who speak Spanish, wish they were English, and act like they're French!"