US Citizen --> Australian Medical School --> Australian Practice = Financially Feasible?

[LAtoDavis]

Hi,

I'd like to attend an Australian medical school and stay in Australia permanently. I'm wondering if that's financially feasible, or not?

Assuming I did get an internship and specialty training, but since not all Australian med schools I'm applying to accept US financial aid (University of Western Australia, Australian National University, Monash University), I'm concerned about taking out private loans.

Is it even worth it to apply to Australian med schools, or should I just plan on staying in the United States? I have a DO acceptance and had a few MD interviews (1 waitlist, 1 haven't heard back from) and another MD interview approaching. I applied to Irish medical schools, too, but Australia sounds nice and like a place I could see myself living permanently. Ireland is good too, but not having EU citizenship makes getting a residency and practicing there difficult.

Would you think that the UK could be a fallback if I attend an Australian medical school for a foundation programme and specialty training?

Thanks

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[qldking]

It can definitely be done.

You won't need private loans depending on the school you select--Staffords + Grad Plus should cover it and try to work part time while in the first two years.

Getting out of America and moving to Australia will be the best decision of your life.

 

[LAtoDavis]

It can definitely be done.

You won't need private loans depending on the school you select--Staffords + Grad Plus should cover it and try to work part time while in the first two years.

Getting out of America and moving to Australia will be the best decision of your life.

Thanks for the reply. I take it that you like Australia?

America is going downhill, IMO. It seems like the standard of living is lower than in Australia, and at the same time, cities in Australia are ranked as the best places to live in the world. Ahead of places like Zurich, Bern, etc. Plus, the medical residency sounds a lot less grueling, even if it does take longer.

Anyhow, the thing about US financial aid acceptance scares me. I suppose that I won't bother applying to the ones that don't. That'd be a huge nightmare staring down $300k in unsubsidized loans with no way out besides faking your own death and moving to Singapore or Guam.

 

[qldking]

Of course, Australia is beautiful. The thing is Australia is about a decade behind America in terms of social, political, and economic developments and phenomena.

The health care crunch and the effects of multiculturalism/immigration are just starting to hit here. So you'll have a good 10 years or so of good living here before in ends up like the United States.
If I can offer any advice it's to not go to Sydney (essentially an American city set in the Southern hemisphere). Also, take a look at Tasmania--see if its med school takes US financial aid. Look at schools with small cohorts. Avoid factories like UQ.

Whatever you do, don't take out private loans. Target the schools that accept US financial aid and then ride the PAYE train if **** hits the fan at any point.

 

[petyr_baelish]

Of course, Australia is beautiful. The thing is Australia is about a decade behind America in terms of social, political, and economic developments and phenomena.

The health care crunch and the effects of multiculturalism/immigration are just starting to hit here. So you'll have a good 10 years or so of good living here before in ends up like the United States.
If I can offer any advice it's to not go to Sydney (essentially an American city set in the Southern hemisphere). Also, take a look at Tasmania--see if its med school takes US financial aid. Look at schools with small cohorts. Avoid factories like UQ.

Whatever you do, don't take out private loans. Target the schools that accept US financial aid and then ride the PAYE train if **** hits the fan at any point.

The only problem with this is the tax bomb you face at the end of the 20 or 25 years you do PAYE.
It will be about ~$200 000 payable* in April of tax year 2035 if you start med school this year.

*This comes from the 40% effective tax rate of your remaining student loan balance that you have been "paying" (read: paying less than the interest at the start to slightly above interest at the end).

 

[qldking]

The only problem with this is the tax bomb you face at the end of the 20 or 25 years you do PAYE.
It will be about ~$200 000 payable* in April of tax year 2035 if you start med school this year.

*This comes from the 40% effective tax rate of your remaining student loan balance that you have been "paying" (read: paying less than the interest at the start to slightly above interest at the end).

Yeah and it's total bull**** but if you're in med school in America and making peanuts as a resident it's impossible to pay anything back unless you're on IBR/PAYE. I just don't see how anyone can pay over 300-400k in loans at 7.x% interest otherwise.

Then there's also the faint hope that when Generation X takes power and the Boomers can no longer destroy America/sponge off the state that the loans will be discharged.

 

[pre med 2014]

If I can offer any advice it's to not go to Sydney (essentially an American city set in the Southern hemisphere).

Is this supposed to be a joke? Sydney is one the most uniquely cultured cities in the world. In my opinion it doesn't resemble any other major city. It is a mix of New York and Europe but set in the tropical jungle climate of the South Pacific.

 

[qldking]

Is this supposed to be a joke? Sydney is one the most uniquely cultured cities in the world. In my opinion it doesn't resemble any other major city. It is a mix of New York and Europe but set in the tropical jungle climate of the South Pacific.

All I am saying is that it's pointless to come to Australia to live in a huge city like Sydney which is basically an American city. If you want to be around suicide bombers, expensive and crowded living, with no vegetation and no grass fields, then sure, Sydney is world class.

 

[giraffedom]

syndey is actually pretty nice, the culture is great, the sydney cbd is a busy city but outside of the cbd is a wide wide area of coolness, oxford street is amazing, newtown is cool and hip, north sydney is luxe as hell, western sydney is grungier but not awful except in a few areas

sydney isnt any more expensive than other major cities average rent for a two bedroom is $500 ish out side the cbd

parking is **** but thats the breaks in all big cities .. even wollongong can be terrible for parking in the cbd

 

[Dori118]

Hi,

I am currently considering medical school in Australia as well. I have applied for Fall 2015 entry to MD programs here in the states and have not gotten in. I have a 3.3 science and overall gpa (I know, not the greatest) and a 32 MCAT. I was currently looking at Flinders and I'm researching schools that have connections to FAFSA so I can get decent loans. I honestly think the financial difference between tuition in Australia and here seems not so different. I am just getting very worreid about what I hear about the shortage of internships post graduation. I was wondering if anyone here knows if you can get permanent residence in Australia during your years as a medical student so that you can apply as a local rather than international. Also, is there any difference between international students from English speaking countries (US, Canada) vs non-English speaking countries? Also, any word on applying on your own and directly vs applying through a representative agency such as education abroad network?

 

[sean80439]

You asked almost the same stuff in all 4 threads... the answer is this. They probably have reached the plateau for students in Australia, which means that it should get better as more junior doctors become registrars and registrars become specialists, giving you places to train. If you are looking to stay in Australia, look for a 4 year program there (Ochsner is out). Also, many, it not most schools will remove your spot if you gain a PR while in the program. Applying for an international spot is much different than a resident spot. You have to check if the school will let you convert your position in the program from a FFP international to a PR spot.

Applying through an agency is fine. They are usually helpful.

 

[lyndal]

Agree with everything sean has said. Good luck!

 

[Mad Jack]

All I am saying is that it's pointless to come to Australia to live in a huge city like Sydney which is basically an American city. If you want to be around suicide bombers, expensive and crowded living, with no vegetation and no grass fields, then sure, Sydney is world class.

Totally suicide bombers every day in Sydney lol. I'll just be over here rolling my eyes at how ridiculous that sounds. Crowded living is an any city thing, not an American problem, as are all the other city issues you named.

 

[Dori118]

You asked almost the same stuff in all 4 threads... the answer is this. They probably have reached the plateau for students in Australia, which means that it should get better as more junior doctors become registrars and registrars become specialists, giving you places to train. If you are looking to stay in Australia, look for a 4 year program there (Ochsner is out). Also, many, it not most schools will remove your spot if you gain a PR while in the program. Applying for an international spot is much different than a resident spot. You have to check if the school will let you convert your position in the program from a FFP international to a PR spot.

Applying through an agency is fine. They are usually helpful.

Thanks so much!
Sorry for the repetitiveness. Got in a bit of a panic.

 

[deleted390966]

I've heard that as an international graduate from Australian med school, you'll have to practice in Australian underserved area for 5 years before you can get fully licensed. It is called "memoratum" or something... Could someone please tell me more about this?

 

[petyr_baelish]

I've heard that as an international graduate from Australian med school, you'll have to practice in Australian underserved area for 5 years before you can get fully licensed. It is called "memoratum" or something... Could someone please tell me more about this?

It's ten years. If you practice in the most underserved areas in Australia (usually the most remote), you can shorten it to 5 years. You get 2 years of credit for 1 year of work. You receive little to no supervision which isn't ideal for a new doctor.

 

[UncomfortablyNumb]

I'm trying to keep my options open. I'm 90% positive I'd like to stay in Australia to live/work but I don't want to close the door to US.

If I attend Ochsner, is it feasible to return to Australia for training?

 

[pitman]

I've heard that as an international graduate from Australian med school, you'll have to practice in Australian underserved area for 5 years before you can get fully licensed. It is called "memoratum" or something... Could someone please tell me more about this?

I'm trying to keep my options open. I'm 90% positive I'd like to stay in Australia to live/work but I don't want to close the door to US.

If I attend Ochsner, is it feasible to return to Australia for training?

You almost certainly won't get internship in Australia from Ochsner, but if you complete 2 years of residency in the US, you can get general registration (equivalence of having completed Australian internship) after a year of supervised practice (e.g., you find an ED job for that year, where you'd be treated like a PGY2 or PGY3). After that, you can apply for GP training as a temp resident (through two out of three GP training streams) or get Permanent Residency and then apply to specialty colleges.

If you complete your US fellowship, then it's up to the specialty college in Australia whether to give you reciprocal fellowship (or make you take exams, or do supplemental training). Most give a fair bit of recognition (compared to the other way around -- the US won't recognize Australian training). But you'd still need to do at least a year of supervised practice.

See, for example the Competent Authority Pathway:
http://www.medicalboard.gov.au/Regi...al-Graduates/Competent-Authority-Pathway.aspx

 

[bashwell]

I live in Sydney. It's an awesome city. A beautiful city. A wonderful place to live. Expensive? Yes, but...since OP wants to end up in Australia regardless it'd be most relevant to compare Sydney to other Aussie cities...and Sydney isn't considerably more expensive than other capital cities in Australia (e.g. Melbourne, Perth), especially if you know where to go (which you will gradually figure out if/when you move here).

Another thing is, yes, generally speaking, it takes longer to become a consultant/attending in Australia than it does in the US. But we don't kill ourselves in the process. It's a lot more fair here for interns, residents, registrars in terms of salary, holiday/vacation, overtime ("penalty" for overnights, Saturdays, Sundays, holidays), etc. Once you become a doctor, if you're a staff specialist, you also get heaps more benefits such as far more money for CME (known as CPD here), leave loading, etc. Not to mention intangibles like (at least currently) far more appreciative patients, less risk of law suits, less intense pace in comparison to the US (not that medicine anywhere is ever completely "easy"), and there's so much else I could say.

Whereas in the US residency is more of "a rite of passage," as an American emergency physician described it in comparison to Australian training (the whole post is worth reading, for anyone interested in Australian training, not necessarily just if you're interested emergency medicine):

http://lifeinthefastlane.com/the-registrar-sits-at-the-desk-registering-patients-right

 

[Seth Joo]

Hi,

I'd like to attend an Australian medical school and stay in Australia permanently. I'm wondering if that's financially feasible, or not?

Assuming I did get an internship and specialty training, but since not all Australian med schools I'm applying to accept US financial aid (University of Western Australia, Australian National University, Monash University), I'm concerned about taking out private loans.

Is it even worth it to apply to Australian med schools, or should I just plan on staying in the United States? I have a DO acceptance and had a few MD interviews (1 waitlist, 1 haven't heard back from) and another MD interview approaching. I applied to Irish medical schools, too, but Australia sounds nice and like a place I could see myself living permanently. Ireland is good too, but not having EU citizenship makes getting a residency and practicing there difficult.

Would you think that the UK could be a fallback if I attend an Australian medical school for a foundation programme and specialty training?

Thanks

A DO degree is not readily recognized outside of the United States like an MD so you have to think long and hard about this, also if you decide to go to Australia and decide to return to the US for any reason, you are an IMG and will be at a disadvantage for residency. So think long and hard about it. Australia is a great place to be compared to many places on Earth. Big cities in Australia compared to big US cities, no comparison they are clean and safe, big US cities suck. That being said rural Australia is nothing to boast about.

Having an MD from a US school is the best possible outcome for you since you are an American, once you finish your education and training, the world is yours.

I have friends to went to Irish medical schools, its impossible to stay there without EU citizenship, everyone goes back home once they are finished with their studies. That being said if you went to an Australian medical school I heard its possible to stay in Australia after graduation, definitely a lot more doable than Ireland which is very restrictive because of the EU restrictions but no guarantees. As I said the best thing is to get into a US MD school and that keeps the most doors open for you.