US Citizens in Australia Medical School

[Acheron]

This question is for current US citizens studying at an Australian Medical School.

What do you plan on doing immediately after you graduate?

I've been stuck with a tough decision for a while. I'd prefer to study in Australia over the US but I'm concerned about getting a residency in Australia after I graduate, I'd prefer to live there for a while and experience the country and culture before ultimately returning to the United States after 5-10 years of practicing in Australia. I hear it is going to be extremely hard for an international student to get a residency in a few years.

Also, I have a somewhat unrelated question. If I were to marry an Australian, while in med school, would I still be considered foreign when it came time for me to apply for a residency?

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[Daemos]

Your PR will be after 2 years after you are married to an australian, unless of course you have a child with them.

 

[redshifteffect]

If you eventually plan to return to the US it probably isn't a wise decision to do your residency here, since you will likely have to repeat it when you return to the US. It's gonna suck to go from being a Consultant, making your own hours and having your registrars do your job for you to being a "resident" in the US working 80+ hours for minimal pay.

If you marry an Australian (or get a PR through other means) and get your PR you will be considered a local.

 

[redshifteffect]

You can get a PR a bit quicker, a friend of mine got his in about 8 months (and he did it through the defacto route, not marriage), but he was in his penultimate year.

 

[Acheron]

You can get a PR a bit quicker, a friend of mine got his in about 8 months (and he did it through the defacto route, not marriage), but he was in his penultimate year.

Thank you reshifteffect. Your input was very helpful and now I am much more optimistic about my chances of practicing in Australia.

Also, this de facto route sounds much more appealing than marriage .

 

[Acheron]

Anybody else have insight?

 

[freshclay]

Hi Acheron,

I'm in my final year at Melbourne and will be practicing in Victoria for at least the next few years and then deciding from there.

At least in Victoria, if you are a solid student you should get an internship somewhere in the state. I'm not aware of anyone in our graduating class (even the slackers) who doesn't have a job lined up somewhere in the country or Singapore. The people in the latter group can also come back to Australia for specialty training if they desire. I'm not sure about the details, but the people I know taking that route are all from SE Asia so the adjustment for them probably won't be too big. They pay well and subsidise your rent apparently. Some of the rural hospitals in Victoria also have great rent deals for junior docs.

Getting PR is an option and your tuition would definitely drop a lot if you get it before graduating. The way the intern matching works in Victoria is that the local students are in one batch and international students, IMGs, and interstate applicants are in another batch. Each hospital has a certain number of spots allocated for each batch. I think some international students got lucky this year in that quite a few got into their top preferences whereas some of our local counterparts didn't get that same luxury. Whether this was based on luck or actual application strength is up in the air. The intricate workings of the PMCV (Postgraduate Medical Council of Victoria) remain a mystery to me.

At the end of the day, nothing is guaranteed for international students. But you can make it a lot easier on yourself by working your butt off and doing well. Hospitals are looking for people who will be good doctors regardless of where they're from.

 

[Daemos]

Getting PR is an option and your tuition would definitely drop a lot if you get it before graduating. The way the intern matching works in Victoria is that the local students are in one batch and international students, IMGs, and interstate applicants are in another batch. Each hospital has a certain number of spots allocated for each batch.

Are you sure? This is not how basically every other state works. Basically first round goes to PR/Citizens in state, then PR/citizens interstate, then internationals get what is left over. If it is true, that's great. Sorry I don't mean to come off as rude, but it's the internet and many people spread rumors that they find on forums as the truth.

checking on the PMCV I can't find any information on how they allocate spots.

 

[Daemos]

found info:

http://computermatching.pmcv.com.au/public/hospitaldirectory/PDFs/Part_1_Introduction.pdf

Page 11 and 12.

Two groups:
Group 1: Citizens/PRs who graduate from a victoria medical school
Group 2: Everyone else

The spots available for those in group 2 basically are: Total number of internship spots - total number of applicants in group 1. So if there are 500 spots in total, there are 450 group one applicants there will be 50 spots for group 2 to compete for.

 

[shan564]

Victoria doesn't have as many internationals as NSW and Queensland do. That might be why it's harder to find a person who doesn't have an internship lined up.

Also, the problem was exacerbated this year in NSW because we had a lot of interstate applicants. A lot of them will probably decline their offers, so the NSW international students will probably end up getting a place. The big problem is in future years... that's when we're likely to have problems.

 

[Alphonsine]

Victoria doesn't have as many internationals as NSW and Queensland do. That might be why it's harder to find a person who doesn't have an internship lined up.

Also, the problem was exacerbated this year in NSW because we had a lot of interstate applicants. A lot of them will probably decline their offers, so the NSW international students will probably end up getting a place. The big problem is in future years... that's when we're likely to have problems.

U Melbourne isn't listed as one of the medical schools recognized by California because I don't believe anyone of their international students ever tried applying for approval. Plus, from what I heard about their medical school, I'm not impressed.

Though they do put international students on the same footing as all other interstate students.

Interstate is bad news for NSW. Few students will pass up the opportunity to be around the Sydney area. I mean seriously?

 

[Acheron]

U Melbourne isn't listed as one of the medical schools recognized by California because I don't believe anyone of their international students ever tried applying for approval. Plus, from what I heard about their medical school, I'm not impressed.

Though they do put international students on the same footing as all other interstate students.

Interstate is bad news for NSW. Few students will pass up the opportunity to be around the Sydney area. I mean seriously?

UniMelb is recognized by California. Not sure where you got your information.

http://www.medbd.ca.gov/applicant/schools_recognized.html

 

[JanikeyDoc]

U Melbourne isn't listed as one of the medical schools recognized by California because I don't believe anyone of their international students ever tried applying for approval. Plus, from what I heard about their medical school, I'm not impressed.

Though they do put international students on the same footing as all other interstate students.

Interstate is bad news for NSW. Few students will pass up the opportunity to be around the Sydney area. I mean seriously?

U of Melbourne is the best medical school in Australia, don't believe me look it up on the Times Higher Education Supplement.

 

[jaketheory]

U of Melbourne is the best medical school in Australia, don't believe me look it up on the Times Higher Education Supplement.

as you should know, the times does not rate actual medical courses, rather it ranks institutions on research. simply because a school gets loads of money for research and produces loads of publications in no way means its medical teaching program is great or even good. by american standards, UoM's funding for research is not even that impressive, nor is their primary teaching hospital. i worked at the Harvard school of public health for 4 years during which i sat in on numerous 1st year med school lectures and volunteered at both Brigham & Women's and Mass General hospitals. while i havent actually sat in on a UoM class, i have been in one of their lecture halls and it seemed rather average by american standards (which is pretty good). the royal melbourne hospital compares in no way to the brigham or MGH. it also is like an average large american teaching hospital.

i'd say UoM's main advantage over most other aus schools is that it is a well established school in one of the largest aus cities. but i think it would be hard to convincingly argue that it is better than USyd or that Usyd is better than UoM. i would say the same for UWA except Perth is considerably smaller than both Melbourne and Sydney and thus i'd expect the array of cases you'd be exposed to at UWA to be less extensive as compared to USyd or UoM. i dont even want to talk about UQ.

 

[Transition]

U of Melbourne is the best medical school in Australia, don't believe me look it up on the Times Higher Education Supplement.

The THES does not rank medical schools. It ranks research institutions. Also, ANU is the top in Australia, ranked at #16.

That supplement has little to no bearing on the standards of the medical school.

EDIT: just ready jaketheory's post... he covers the points

 

[jaketheory]

The THES does not rank medical schools. It ranks research institutions. Also, ANU is the top in Australia, ranked at #16.

That supplement has little to no bearing on the standards of the medical school.

EDIT: just ready jaketheory's post... he covers the points

the times has overall rankings as well as specific discipline rankings, of which one is biomedicine. For biomedicine UoM and USyd tend to ping pong back and forth year after year. I think ANU is ranked highest in Aus overall as well as in physical sciences (and other disciplines), but not in biomedicine, though it does usually fair pretty well in biomedicine too.

 

[redshifteffect]

What about the Good schools Guide? It was several years ago but I remember Melbourne Med being top back then.

 

[jaketheory]

What about the Good schools Guide? It was several years ago but I remember Melbourne Med being top back then.

redshift, i've tried searching the aussie good uni guide for actual ratings unsuccesfully. the website, www.gooduniguide.com.au, says it is has australia's only degree and university performance rating, but i cant seem to find any ratings or rankings. all i seem to be able to do is search for courses. the search results describe the available courses but don't provide ratings or rankings. maybe im not looking in the right place.

 

[sofia21]

Hey, I was just about the ask the same question you did a few years ago.

I'm curious, what did you end up deciding?

I'm considering applying to Australian med schools....taking the gamsat next months! oy!

This question is for current US citizens studying at an Australian Medical School.

What do you plan on doing immediately after you graduate?

I've been stuck with a tough decision for a while. I'd prefer to study in Australia over the US but I'm concerned about getting a residency in Australia after I graduate, I'd prefer to live there for a while and experience the country and culture before ultimately returning to the United States after 5-10 years of practicing in Australia. I hear it is going to be extremely hard for an international student to get a residency in a few years.

Also, I have a somewhat unrelated question. If I were to marry an Australian, while in med school, would I still be considered foreign when it came time for me to apply for a residency?