US doctor moving to Australia

[pre med 2014]

Going over this thread has made one thing clear, I need to find a wife soon if I want to stay in Australia after med school.
Can anybody recommend any good pick up lines for me? "Hi my name is x, I'm in a very large amount of non dischargeable student debt as an international med student and I'm in need of an Australian wife so I can get a job, wanna go out sometime??"

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[fuyulee]

Thanks for the great reply. Just a quick update. I am still currently on the waitlist for a US MD school while starting the DO application for the next cycle. I have also been accepted to UQ's MD program and waiting to hear back from ANU. So the problem with solution 1) is that the timeline doesn't quite match up and I probably will have to make decisions before actually hearing back from all my options.

In terms of location I want to live/practice in the long term... Honestly I don't know. I grew up living in 4-5 different countries so I am quite open to living anywhere really. Australia seems great but I am worried about having a hard time becoming a PR and being able to properly practice. The US is where I am probably the most familiar but now you make it seem like getting residencies are more difficult that what I expected. I was always under the impression that international students doing medical school in the US mostly had to figure out how to get into medical school. Residencies would not be as much of a problem. Where you part of a residency admission committee or are we talking about more anecdotal information? If what you say is true, then I might be in deeper trouble than what I thought. Since I am already having such a hard time getting into medical school in the US as an international student, things don’t look good for residency matches.

On a side note, Taiwan views either degree relatively favorably but ideally I wouldn’t want to go back to practice.
I also have a couple follow-up questions.

1) PR after starting MD: I understand that international students trying to work in Australia need to perform the 10 year service to actually be able to practice freely. How does that work if you get PR status say, during your MD year or even halfway while you are performing the 10 years? Still stuck with finishing the time?

2) Advance training time in AU: This is probably just me not understanding how medical training work in Australia, but I was under the impression that one would only have to spend 1 year doing what is equivalent as residency and one would then gain licensing. This thread makes it appear that residency training is longer in Australia than the 2-3 years in the US. What am I missing here?

3) Residency difficulty in the US: I mentioned it already, but I really would like to know how difficult it is for one to get into a residency program in the US as a foreigner if they graduate from US Medical school? I am not talking about highly competitive specialties like ophthalmology or dermatology. I am thinking about something more mid-range, say ER.
Sorry for the long post. Any help would be great. I appreciate all your time.

 

[Struvite]

Thanks for the great reply. Just a quick update. I am still currently on the waitlist for a US MD school while starting the DO application for the next cycle. I have also been accepted to UQ's MD program and waiting to hear back from ANU. So the problem with solution 1) is that the timeline doesn't quite match up and I probably will have to make decisions before actually hearing back from all my options.

In terms of location I want to live/practice in the long term... Honestly I don't know. I grew up living in 4-5 different countries so I am quite open to living anywhere really. Australia seems great but I am worried about having a hard time becoming a PR and being able to properly practice. The US is where I am probably the most familiar but now you make it seem like getting residencies are more difficult that what I expected. I was always under the impression that international students doing medical school in the US mostly had to figure out how to get into medical school. Residencies would not be as much of a problem. Where you part of a residency admission committee or are we talking about more anecdotal information? If what you say is true, then I might be in deeper trouble than what I thought. Since I am already having such a hard time getting into medical school in the US as an international student, things don’t look good for residency matches.

On a side note, Taiwan views either degree relatively favorably but ideally I wouldn’t want to go back to practice.
I also have a couple follow-up questions.

1) PR after starting MD: I understand that international students trying to work in Australia need to perform the 10 year service to actually be able to practice freely. How does that work if you get PR status say, during your MD year or even halfway while you are performing the 10 years? Still stuck with finishing the time?

2) Advance training time in AU: This is probably just me not understanding how medical training work in Australia, but I was under the impression that one would only have to spend 1 year doing what is equivalent as residency and one would then gain licensing. This thread makes it appear that residency training is longer in Australia than the 2-3 years in the US. What am I missing here?

3) Residency difficulty in the US: I mentioned it already, but I really would like to know how difficult it is for one to get into a residency program in the US as a foreigner if they graduate from US Medical school? I am not talking about highly competitive specialties like ophthalmology or dermatology. I am thinking about something more mid-range, say ER.
Sorry for the long post. Any help would be great. I appreciate all your time.

Saw your post from the other thread haha. Im actually a us citizen who got my AUS PR last year.
How the training works in Australia is that once you graduate from med school, you will do your internship. You are not focusing on any specific type of medicine such as internal med, psychiatry, surgery, etc. as you would in the states. The internship years arent the same as a residency in the States (where you automatically be a resident unless you get into Prelim)

During your internship years, you are considered a "house officer." Unless i am mistaken, PGY1=JHO, PGY2=SHO, PGY3 and beyond=PHO.

While you are a house officer, you will do rotations as you would in med school. At the same time, you will also be studying for your speciality exams to become a registrar. A registrar in Australia is basically what we consider someone doing residency in the States and can take anywhere from 3-5 additional years. You can apply for the exam anytime during your house years. Only after you finish training as a registrar do you become a "consultant" which is analogous to an Attending Physician in the States

So all in all, if you count the number of years needed after med school, you'll be looking at least another 5 years of training after med school, not including if you want to do additional fellowships.

As for getting residency in the States as a foreigner, you would have to take the same exams (Step 1, step 2CK/CS, step3), but if you don't have citizenship you'll need to find programs that will sponsor you for a visa. This is usually the hard part for foreigners applying to residency in the states as programs can be iffy on wanting to sponsor your visa when they have a lot of people applying. I imagine the PDs can be more forgiving in giving visas if you get amazing scores on your steps, however.

tl;dr:

In Australia----------| Equivalent to the US
Internship Years (up to 3 years usually)-----|Doesn't Exist
-PGY1--JHO
-PGY2--SHO
-PGY3 and beyond--PHO
Registrar following Internship (from 3-5 yrs)-----|Residency
Consultant following Registrar (finished training)-----|Attending Physician

 

[fuyulee]

Thanks for answer my questions again. So I guess the magical question is, how did you get your PR? Did you also marry an Australian or is there some other alternative around this?

 

[Lewy123]

Great thread.. I read all the replies in this thread but i think my problem may be slightly different.
I have completed Ob/Gyn training from US. I am here on a visa but now i am thinking of relocating to Australia.
I would like to do a subspeciality training/ fellowship in Australia.
I have submitted my documents to AMC for verificatio. does anyone know what would be my next step. Should i apply for the specialist pathway or contact the training programs to see if they will accept me before proceeding with the application?

Thanks for any help.

 

[C.P.]

You've got three challenges with what you're interested in:
1) you need a work visa or permission to work. Without this, you can't be hired to do a fellowship. Technically, you could, but you wouldn't be able to be paid for it.
2) You really need permanent residency or citizenship. When you apply for a fellowship position, they have to consider local applicants first, then they're allowed to consider internationals. It's not impossible, but you'll really need a direct connection with a program here that wants you unless you're flexible enough to take a position as it comes up.
3) You'll need to apply to ANZCOG once you've got your AMC assessment done. I'd contact them now to get the application paperwork so you can get familiar with it and start organizing all the supporting documents.

The process is this, otherwise: Apply to AMC. Get AMC certification for your medical credentials. Apply to ANZCOG, get assessed by ANZCOG and be placed at some level within their training program. Then you can apply for a job.
No permanent residency, it gets a bit harder, but you will need some kind of working visa at the very least.

 

[C.P.]

That wasn't meant to be discouraging. It seems daunting, but it's actually easier than many other countries. Most of the components are the same for any other international country.

 

[anbuitachi]

That wasn't meant to be discouraging. It seems daunting, but it's actually easier than many other countries. Most of the components are the same for any other international country.

How's practicing anesthesia in australia vs in the US? And how is the lifestyle/salary difference?

 

[C.P.]

wow. . . where to start.

Well, I'll try and keep it simple.
There are a lot of similarities, but a lot of subtle differences too.

The easiest part is that heart disease is the same whether you're on the north or south side of the equator. Blood runs the same, physiology acts the same.
Equipment is fairly similar. Drugs are a little different; sometimes in concentration or availability.
Vigilance can vary depending on the working environment you're in. I think a side-effect of the litigious nature of the US (especially California), our vigilance is a lot higher. If anyone would like to argue that point, just think about how many cups of coffee you see brought into the operating rooms in Australia vs the US on a daily basis.

Lifestyle: Australia wins, hands-down.

Pay is heavily dependent on the type of position you take. Similar to Academic vs Private in the US.
You have the ability to make an equally competitive salary compared to private practice in the US, but it often involves working at several different hospitals on varying days of the week.

Working as an academic in the US would be similar to working as a full-time staff specialist at a public hospital in Australia. The salary is less than the income in private-practice, but the benefits are there, the academic stimulation is often there, and it's a different, more supportive environment.

I get paid about a third of what I made in the US (moving from private to academic), but I also work about half as much and actually see my family on a daily basis (something that never would have happened had I stayed in the US)

There's also other factors. The patients. Yes, you still get all varieties of high-maintenance patients, but their interaction with you here (in Australia) is a lot more positive, less antagonistic, and less litigious.

The hardest thing about practicing in Australia is knowing what you could have made or were making in the US, combined with how much cheaper things are there.

Financially, we're all secure. . . and I believe we have a much more humane life-style, which will lead to a longer and more fulfilling career.

If you want more money and a higher likelihood of owning an aston martin . . . stay in the US.

If you want a better chance of avoiding an ulcer, burn-out, and increasing the chance you'll see your family . . . move here.

 

[anbuitachi]

wow. . . where to start.

Well, I'll try and keep it simple.
There are a lot of similarities, but a lot of subtle differences too.

The easiest part is that heart disease is the same whether you're on the north or south side of the equator. Blood runs the same, physiology acts the same.
Equipment is fairly similar. Drugs are a little different; sometimes in concentration or availability.
Vigilance can vary depending on the working environment you're in. I think a side-effect of the litigious nature of the US (especially California), our vigilance is a lot higher. If anyone would like to argue that point, just think about how many cups of coffee you see brought into the operating rooms in Australia vs the US on a daily basis.

Lifestyle: Australia wins, hands-down.

Pay is heavily dependent on the type of position you take. Similar to Academic vs Private in the US.
You have the ability to make an equally competitive salary compared to private practice in the US, but it often involves working at several different hospitals on varying days of the week.

Working as an academic in the US would be similar to working as a full-time staff specialist at a public hospital in Australia. The salary is less than the income in private-practice, but the benefits are there, the academic stimulation is often there, and it's a different, more supportive environment.

I get paid about a third of what I made in the US (moving from private to academic), but I also work about half as much and actually see my family on a daily basis (something that never would have happened had I stayed in the US)

There's also other factors. The patients. Yes, you still get all varieties of high-maintenance patients, but their interaction with you here (in Australia) is a lot more positive, less antagonistic, and less litigious.

The hardest thing about practicing in Australia is knowing what you could have made or were making in the US, combined with how much cheaper things are there.

Financially, we're all secure. . . and I believe we have a much more humane life-style, which will lead to a longer and more fulfilling career.

If you want more money and a higher likelihood of owning an aston martin . . . stay in the US.

If you want a better chance of avoiding an ulcer, burn-out, and increasing the chance you'll see your family . . . move here.

Thanks for responsess!. as you know crnas pose a big threat to US anesthesiologists, how is it in Australia? is the field being threatened by midlevels?

[i didn't even start anes residency yet but perhaps i should start looking for an australian wife hahaha]

 

[C.P.]

There's a shortage of practitioners here.
It does depend on where you work though.
The major urban centers are more flooded with practitioners, while many others are hurting to get people.
To help cover with the rural areas, they still train and heavily utilize General Practitioner Anesthesiologists.

I think the concept of procedural sedationists or mid-level practitioner sedationists has been approached many times, but the complexity of cases and triaging necessary, which depends heavily on baseline breadth of medical knowledge, is regarded as essential here.

I can't imagine a CRNA type position being valuable in this health-care system, except in more congested areas, where referrals and assessments by practitioners would allow for appropriate triaging to an acceptable anesthetic practitioner.

Likewise, the training time (in years) is much longer here. . . making a similar CRNA pathway unlikely.
An alternative pathway may someday be devised, but it would be fairly undesirable to become a student anesthetist for the length of time they'd likely require here too.

 

[anbuitachi]

There's a shortage of practitioners here.
It does depend on where you work though.
The major urban centers are more flooded with practitioners, while many others are hurting to get people.
To help cover with the rural areas, they still train and heavily utilize General Practitioner Anesthesiologists.

I think the concept of procedural sedationists or mid-level practitioner sedationists has been approached many times, but the complexity of cases and triaging necessary, which depends heavily on baseline breadth of medical knowledge, is regarded as essential here.

I can't imagine a CRNA type position being valuable in this health-care system, except in more congested areas, where referrals and assessments by practitioners would allow for appropriate triaging to an acceptable anesthetic practitioner.

Likewise, the training time (in years) is much longer here. . . making a similar CRNA pathway unlikely.
An alternative pathway may someday be devised, but it would be fairly undesirable to become a student anesthetist for the length of time they'd likely require here too.

in what ways is training longer in australia? its hard to imagine a longer process than the US one lol... 4 yr ba, 4 md, 4 res, and these days 1-2 yrs fellowship afterwards... how long is australias?!

 

[C.P.]

It's longer in years, but not longer in hours. The work week is a lot more human (legally, it's 38 hours a week). Additionally, they pay you well. They pay you overtime. They give you extra days off if you work a weekend. You're paid holiday pay (which is 120% of base pay). They give you maternity leave, paternity leave, long service leave, as well as ADOs.

ADOs are extra, paid, days off that you get because you are scheduled for a 40 hours work week, but paid for 38, so every 4 weeks, you've worked 8 extra hours than you've been paid for. These are random days off you can just request.

So. . . yeah, it takes longer in years, but if you look at work hours, then training is longer in the US, but takes more years in Australia.

 

[anbuitachi]

It's longer in years, but not longer in hours. The work week is a lot more human (legally, it's 38 hours a week). Additionally, they pay you well. They pay you overtime. They give you extra days off if you work a weekend. You're paid holiday pay (which is 120% of base pay). They give you maternity leave, paternity leave, long service leave, as well as ADOs.

ADOs are extra, paid, days off that you get because you are scheduled for a 40 hours work week, but paid for 38, so every 4 weeks, you've worked 8 extra hours than you've been paid for. These are random days off you can just request.

So. . . yeah, it takes longer in years, but if you look at work hours, then training is longer in the US, but takes more years in Australia.

What ? Legally 38 Hrs a week??? That is insane loll. I'm guessing if anesthesiologists worked the avg 60 Hrs that they do in USA, they'd be making similar amounts. But wow what a life

 

[pre med 2014]

Coffee in the OR is ok but under no circumstances should you board public transportation with Starbucks in hand!

 

[UBC2014]

Thanks for the great reply. Just a quick update. I am still currently on the waitlist for a US MD school while starting the DO application for the next cycle. I have also been accepted to UQ's MD program and waiting to hear back from ANU. So the problem with solution 1) is that the timeline doesn't quite match up and I probably will have to make decisions before actually hearing back from all my options.

In terms of location I want to live/practice in the long term... Honestly I don't know. I grew up living in 4-5 different countries so I am quite open to living anywhere really. Australia seems great but I am worried about having a hard time becoming a PR and being able to properly practice. The US is where I am probably the most familiar but now you make it seem like getting residencies are more difficult that what I expected. I was always under the impression that international students doing medical school in the US mostly had to figure out how to get into medical school. Residencies would not be as much of a problem. Where you part of a residency admission committee or are we talking about more anecdotal information? If what you say is true, then I might be in deeper trouble than what I thought. Since I am already having such a hard time getting into medical school in the US as an international student, things don’t look good for residency matches.

On a side note, Taiwan views either degree relatively favorably but ideally I wouldn’t want to go back to practice.
I also have a couple follow-up questions.

1) PR after starting MD: I understand that international students trying to work in Australia need to perform the 10 year service to actually be able to practice freely. How does that work if you get PR status say, during your MD year or even halfway while you are performing the 10 years? Still stuck with finishing the time?

2) Advance training time in AU: This is probably just me not understanding how medical training work in Australia, but I was under the impression that one would only have to spend 1 year doing what is equivalent as residency and one would then gain licensing. This thread makes it appear that residency training is longer in Australia than the 2-3 years in the US. What am I missing here?

3) Residency difficulty in the US: I mentioned it already, but I really would like to know how difficult it is for one to get into a residency program in the US as a foreigner if they graduate from US Medical school? I am not talking about highly competitive specialties like ophthalmology or dermatology. I am thinking about something more mid-range, say ER.
Sorry for the long post. Any help would be great. I appreciate all your time.

If you go to a US school, you will get a residency even as a visa student. You are in a whole other category as an American Medical Graduate (AMG) then an IMG who applies for residency in the US. PM me for more info on USDO schools and being an international.

 

[Ecrd]

Hi - and thanks for this discussion board, some really helpful information!
I have a litte bit of a different situation I'm hoping you can advise on: I am Australian citizen and medical grad, but I moved to the US and am currently doing US anesthesia residency (CA2). I want to move back home (to brisbane ideally) when I finish, but I've lost touch with that system. Whilst I am Australian resident, and have kept my medical registration active, my anesthesia qualification will be international, so I have to go through some of the same IMG steps for specialist recognition.

Can you give any information on the climate of anesthesia in australia at the moment in terms of job availability, competition in the market, receptiveness to US trained anesthesiologists, particularly in the big cities. How essential is fellowhip/research to be a competitive applicant? is general anesthesiology enough?. And do you know much on starting salaries - I've seen ~170k is that right? and from when I used to live there, base salary was based on a 40h work week, with overtime/call often contributing a lot to total income - is that still the case?

Also, any advice for the ANZCA application? did you get deemed substantially or partially comparable by ANZCA, did you have to sit the exam? Where did you start in central coast NSW, did you like it, did you end up moving onto sydney - I'm sure thats a tough market to infiltrate.

Thanks so much for your help.

 

[C.P.]

Well,
the main question is; did you do any work as an intern or higher before you left? If you got your registration before you left Australia, then you're all set.
Essentially what you'll need to do is apply to the AMC for the "specialist pathway."
This will allow you to be evaluated for compatibility in the Australian training system.
Once they're done with you, you'll apply for the ANZCA evaluation and will likely be given a requirement of 1-2 years as a bridging time (during which most people just take jobs as provisional fellows), then have to sit the final part of the Fellowship exam (the orals).

Here's the important thing; finish your training in the US, and finish your board certification. Get a few state licenses and keep them renewed (which is just yearly renewal fees).
Stay in the US and work, until you've gotten your paperwork finished, your evaluation done, and a job lined up in Australia, then come over.
This will keep you working, making an income, and making the transition a lot easier.

I'll talk to you later about the types of jobs you should focus on, but that's another issue.
Jobs are sort of tight, but if you market yourself well, coming in with international training and a diversity of skills is always a plus.
I rank myself as able to interview well and got a number of interview offers at top spots, in a market that's been considered "tight" for quite a while.
SO, that being said, there's a lot that the country can offer if you look in the right places.

The income you'll make here has a lot to do with the type of practice you'll be in.
Whether it's a public hospital or a private hospital (which is a similar differentiation to the US academic vs private system).
I'd say you're looking at about 220k baseline to 500-600k doing a lot of higher earning private work.

Does that help?

 

[Ecrd]

This is really helpful, thank you.
Yes, I did work in Aus, as intern & jho before I left and I have maintained my registration since I've been gone. Actually I thought that would have prevented me from having to go through the AMC step, so its helpful to learn that I still need to get on the specialist pathway through AMC.

I'm at the stage in my training here where I need to decide if I do a fellowship or not. Ideally I think I'd like to start working, but if a fellowship would help me get back home then I'd be more apt to consider it (probably consider peds or cardiac).
Regarding the 1-2 years that Australia will require me to do - is this working as an attending but someone signing off on you, or is it working as a fellow? If it needs to be as a fellow, then could these years be used to gain subspecialty training, or do they need to be generalist years?
For working in the US before I come back - would it be better to stay at an academic centre than private, or does it not make a difference? I thought academic centres may be considered more equivalent to the big city tertiary hospitals in Australia.
For the exam - so just the oral component, not the written? how hard was this to sit for someone with the US training background? any advice for preparation.
Thanks again

 

[C.P.]

You're correct. If you officially completed all of your medical school requirements and were registered as a doctor, then you don't have to go through the AMC.
You're application goes straight through to the ANZCA.
Fellowship is a tough call.
I'd recommend thinking a lot about what you're potentially interested in.
I wouldn't do a fellowship to increase your competitiveness as an applicant in Australia.
Arriving here, board certified in the US and then doing a couple years as a senior resident here will give you a great chance to get your name around and makes you a valuable applicant as a new consultant with dual board certification and no restrictions on where on when you can work as a doctor.
Where you work after you're done doesn't matter as much, unless it fulfills your own interest (that's more of a philosophical bit of advice than anything else).
Whatever you do, do it because you find it interesting. If it increases your diversity or proficiency, then even better.

One thing to make sure you look into is how you're insured.
When you leave the US you need to make sure your malpractice insurance is covered.
When you leave, you'll need a policy that continues to cover you. If you're at an academic spot, you're covered from while you're there to after you leave (double check this to make sure, but that's usually the case).
If you go into private practice, you'll want to make sure you have occurrence-made, not claims-made coverage-made. . . or that your policy/contract includes "tail coverage."
Essentially, this means that you're covered against malpractice claims after you leave without having to continue to buy insurance for the rest of your life.
If you don't have this, then you'll need to buy a "tail" which is a single policy to cover you after you leave, and usually costs around 20,000.

as far as exams, I can't guarantee anything, but I'm guessing with your background, and what I've seen happen to the few others who have come over with similar backgrounds, that you'll end up with those requirements.
Any exam requires prep work, but after having just completed your US exams and having a year or two as a pseudo-senior trainee here, you'll hve ample time to gear up for the exams here and pass them.
The backup is that you can always head back to the US if you need to, for any variety of reasons.
The years you do here are interesting. You're requirement is simple: you have to be at an institution where someone can evaluate your time (which is most institutions), and you can take any job that doesn't require you to have your Australian board certification. This would seem like it could only be a training position, but there are some jobs that don't require this (or can be negotiated to exempt you from it).
The Fact is though, that these particular jobs are commonly going to be at far off places without much exposure to other trainees and the resources you'd want to help gear up for your exams.
You'll be looking for a job as a "provisional fellow", which is like an australian version of something between a senior resident and a board eligible attending.
As a provisional fellow (senior trainee) you really won't have any specific requirements like specific rotations, to complete. You'll just be doing what they want or you request to do.
The value of this is they get you as an over-qualified trainee, but don't have to worry about accommodating any specific training rotations.

The other thing is that as a senior trainee, you make a standardized salary, with overtime, double overtime, holidays, randomly allocated days off, sick days, vacation pay which is more than your standard pay. . . and it's all based on a work week of 38 hours per week.
You'll often do more than this, but you get overtime for it.

It's a really life-friendly training scheme that is very different from the US system in this regard.

 

[Ecrd]

C.P., thanks again so much for your reply. All very helpful and I think answers all my questions (for now!).
regarding fellowship, the main issue for me is that as a result of having jumped between countries, and the US not recognising australian time, by the time I finish I will have done 8 years of training. that makes me just want to start working. But, at least in the states now, there is a strong feeling that you need a fellowship to get the job you want, particularly in any competitive market (big city, desirable place, etc). If the jump back to Australia means more fellowship (PFY) then it may make sense to wait, particularly if US fellowship won't help me skip the PFY time or exam, or make me a more desirable candidate.
does that sound like I'm on the right track?
Thanks

 

[C.P.]

I'd wait a little bit in the US and do some work to build up a bit of cash while you're working on your US board exams.
Realistically, this will take you a couple years, during which you can work on your application for coming back to Australia.
I know a lot of people think you need a fellowship, but you'd be better off just working a bit at a few random jobs to build up your skills as an attending and figure out the kind of practice and the scope you want to focus on.
I genuinely doubt that a fellowship will make any difference unless you're looking at peds or cardiac and are interested in a large center.
Likewise, coming to Australia for a PFY is a pretty decently paying year, and not that stressful. You're looking at around 170-200k a year with half the work hours you'd be dong in the US.

It doesn't really matter how much time you're gong to do in the US, you'll pretty much end up with the same amount of time here.
The flip side though is that it really is a helpful transition time.
Things aren't exactly the same form one country to the next and this provisional training time really helps you learn how the system works and also make connections so you can figure out where you'd like to work.

I'd finish your training in the US, work for two years to finish your boards, then come over to Australia. . . or spend a bit more time and then come over.
The more time you spend in the US after finishing your boards is really just going to be for building up more of a cash reserve and possibly some experience before heading over.
If you really are interested in doing a speciality fellowship, I'd do regional.
It's always an important skill whether you're just boosting your clinical skills or interested in boosting the resources and teaching of a department.
I spent about 4 years in the US after finishing my training, and that was the most I was willing to stay for if I was going to move to Australia. Moving takes time to resettle and learn the system again and I had a lot of projects I wanted to re-establish.
Staying any longer would have just meant I'd be investing time in the US on projects I'd have to leave.
The main thing is this; you've got a lot of options and a lot of ways to make this work, but just make sure you finish your US boards, otherwise you're missing out on a resource and career option that could be valuable later in life.

 

[deleted158872]

Hi doctor,
So did you have to work in an underserved area for 10 years to fulfill moratorium? How was your experience?
Does everyone who is non-Australian citizen have to fulfill the 10-year moratorium, even if they graduate from an Australian med school?

 

[neulite30]

Hi doctor,
So did you have to work in an underserved area for 10 years to fulfill moratorium?
Does everyone who is non-Australian citizen have to fulfill the 10-year moratorium, even if they graduate from an Australian med school?

Yep. It applies to those individuals who do not hold Australian or New Zealand citizenship or permanent residence at the time of commencement of medical school.

 

[C.P.]

The "moratorium" is an interesting situation in regards to Anaesthetic practice.

Here's some important points:
1) its 10 years from your first registration as a doctor. You don't have to work any of those ten years. You can get registered, leave, come back ten years later, and you're done. There is mention of being able to accelerate the ten years by working areas of "severe need," but this really only is applicable to more general practice/rural medicine posts.
2) An "area of need" is defined by postcode. It sometimes happens that a hospital/area within a major city falls under an area of need category for a specialty (including anaesthetics). Once you've gotten permission to work at a hospital, that permission/exemption stays, even if the hospital no longer is considered an area of need later on.
3) While under the moratorium, you have to get individual approval for any hospital you want to work at. It's almost like getting sponsored by a company for a work visa. . . it's only good for who sponsored you.
4) You can apply to ANY hospital and YOU WILL get a provider number. . . but if you don't qualify for an exemption (i.e. an area of need situation), the registration will be limited to "on call/after hours, or emergency situations." Emergency situations can mean you're covering for maternity leave, or someone's vacation, or a sick day. . . it can be any number of things, but can't involve you being on a permanent, regular schedule.
5) There are "exemptions"
a) it's an area of need.
b) you're married (or in a defacto relationship) with someone else who has an unrestricted provider number. If you are, then you're exempted from the moratorium.
c) you have a university appointment. If you have an academic responsibility with a university, then you're allowed to work at the hospital associated with it.
d) you're given a personal exemption, dictated by the minister of health (Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha. . . . and this will never happen).

Ultimately, the trouble is coming in, getting connected, and finding your way around so you can get a spot in an area of need, or find a spot that is an area of need, or get connected with a situation that will exempt you from the moratorium.
You can also work a locums position. Locums positions are exempt from the moratorium, as you're not billing anyone, but being paid a daily wage instead.

Does that help?

 

[C.P.]

Ultimately, it all comes down to this:
Moving to another country, for any situation or career, is going to take some extra work, thinking outside the box, and a good amount of motivation/determination.
The last part is heavily fueled by what your reason is for wanting to move.

For me, I married an Australian and we ended up settling here.

Usually it's for love or money.

If you've got other motivations, try and make sure they're solid before you commit to it.
Like any effort, having solid convictions and clear goals makes the path easier.

To restate things that are probably buried in other posts:
I work in Sydney, at one of the top hospitals.

I got the job because I'm good at what I do, but also knew what I wanted in a career and a position.

I took that, made some connections and made the job happen. It's not impossible, it just takes a willingness to work it out.

Coming in to a department, knowing what you want and that they're a match for your goals is a big selling point, anywhere.

People want to hire others that they know want to be there, and that will fit in with the rest of the staff.

Figuring out what you want is probably the most difficult aspect of career soul searching, but also one of the most important.
That applies to moving overseas or just looking locally for a position.

 

[gj1]

Absolutely brilliant post C.P. many thanks for all the effort. read it top to tail. Here's my question:

\I'm American. Wife is Australian. I have my FRACS, etc and worked 5 yrs in Melbourne 2007-2012 before moving the family to US. (disaster- wife hates America). So obviously moving the family back, pay-cut, everything you've described, etc, starting a public job offer in Melbourne Jan 2016. But I'm keen to do private work on the side and looking for 19ab loopholes. I was delighted to read your post that time abroad after registration counts towards the 19ab 10 years, Are you certain? I could not find this in the 2015 19ab exemptions guidelines, but I believe you, and I will kiss you if true. Would I need to maintain my Australian medical registration the entire time I was abroad for this to apply?

\\Also, I could no longer find the academic affiliation exemption in the 2015 guidelines. Do you know if it still holds?

 

[C.P.]

Two things:
1) is your wife a doctor (if so, then you don't need to do anything more).
2) http://www.doctorconnect.gov.au/internet/otd/publishing.nsf/Content/specialist_dws_locator
select "general surgery" and then type in Melbourne in the search bar.

It's a map that shows all the areas currently considered an"area of need".
If a private hospital pops up, then apply for a provider number there (it doesn't cost anything but a stamp).
Here's the form file:///Users/DoNotEnter/Downloads/Information%20Sheet%20and%20Application%20for%20Additional%20Location%20Medicare%20Provider%20Registration%20Number.pdf

You've only got 2 years left on your restrictions, but in the meantime you can start racking up provider numbers to locations around the area (some of them aren't that far away), and then look for work there. The only downside is you have to find the hospital first, then look for work there, instead of just looking for work.

Let me know about your wife.
this is the spousal 19ab exemption:
Considerations for exemption - spouses

(1) This section applies where an applicant is the spouse of:
(a) a medical practitioner who is not prevented by section 19AB of the Act from rendering, or from having rendered on his or her behalf, a professional service for which medicare benefit is payable and who ordinarily resides in Australia

So, if your spouse has an unrestricted provider number, then you do too.

 

[gj1]

many thanks. My wife is primary school teacher. I chuckle and adore the randomness of the 'spousal medical practitioner exemption' as the most quirky loophole, suggestive it was written by/for Aus physicians on the inside who felt it unfair their foreign spouses had to wait it out with the rest of us. No arguments here, such is life. (yes, intentional Ned Kelly ref). My plan will be to work on academic affiliation exemptions at the 2 private hospitals on campus then, which is genuinely legit since I'll see my share of private pts, outside admissions, etc while on call. I'm told by my primary employer that a 457 visa makes exemptions near impossible. Do you know if this is true. My spousal visa is 12m away still.

 

[C.P.]

You and I are in the same boat.
My wife's a primary school teacher too. I think her disdain for the LA school system was the final straw for why we came back.
the visa you're working on is a wild card for me. I organized my PR before I flew over, so I never really had to address the 19AA exemption.

What I can recommend is this: You've obviously already got a job organized, which you'll be working in. Establish a network of medical student teaching activities (anatomy, CPR, surgical interest group, suturing, central lines, scrubbing in, etc). See how you can get involved with medical student teaching otherwise. Do this while you're working at that hospital or others that may have clinical schools.
With this under your belt, you can apply for an academic appointment in recognition of your existing contribution to the university.

Alternatively, you can see if there is an open position at a University Medical School you can apply for, but this tends to carry a lot more responsibility and time spent on the medical school campus.

The down-side is that this will probably take about the amount of time you've got left till your 10 year moratorium expires anyway.
Regardless, the longer issue looks like your Permanent Residency. Once you've actually got your PR, then you've got to send off paperwork acknowledging it to Medicare, and lifting the 19AA exemption. None of the paperwork processing happens quickly.

One way you can help shorten things is to start collecting the paperwork and forms, so when you've got whatever you need, you can fire it off immediately.
That's a huge advantage for your appointment at a public hospital. They'll have all the secretarial and support staff who can assist you in getting paperwork and forms filled out.

The other option, in the interim, may be locums work, but I don't know what limitations your visa status imposes on you.

It's a bit more complex with both of those issues to sort out.

To directly answer your question about the academic exemptions with your visa. . . I don't know. I know the academic affiliation will give you a 19AB exemption (which has to do with where you're from and where you trained), but it probably won't give you an exemption from the 19AA (work/residency status) condition.

My recommendation is to just start collecting all the paperwork you need and wait for your PR and moratorium to expire.
In the end, to try and work around them will take a lot of work and effort, and likely (if at all) only save you 3, maybe 4 months of time.

I feel your pain though. My moratorium expires in 2021.
Although, I don't really have much desire to work anywhere else than where I currently am, it would be nice to have the option.

 

[gj1]

haha. yup. We're bailing from LA as well. disdain is polite. ....Grass always looks greener on the other side of the Pacific.....
Have a Melb Uni appt, students, classes, etc. quite fun, but that didn't get me far on last tour of 19ab duty
lacking PR is my achilles. Applied in April when interviewed for the Mel job, Dept Immi responded with 15m wait and I'd need to stay out of country. So i'm planning to cancel, come in on a 457, reapply in country. Thats a bigger task at hand.

 

[ams25]

Hi guys!

Congrats CP and other who have made this transition successfully! Very well written and helpful tips on the US to Oz transition process. Appears to be a very cumbersome and painful, long-drawn process.

I am a cardiology fellow in my last year of fellowship, married to an Aus citizen who is a practicing dentist in Aus. I am on a training visa and finishing in June/2016. Ideally I would do an interventional year but thinking that I might get something in Aus and not understanding the delay in all processes, I did not apply in the US. I have nothing at hand in July/2016.

I have already applied for PR status in May/2015, which is a two step process now and I don't know how many more months that will take.

I seek your help on what should be my step by step process, as this is indeed confusing. Following are my thoughts,

1) I cannot apply for "specialist college" registration yet, unless at least I am board eligible (that is after June/2016).
2) I should not apply for "general" registration via competent pathway, as I intend to practice only Cardiology in Aus, but if I did, what is the downside? I am ABIM certified, but soon after I went into cardiology, so I dont have any practice experience in US in Medicine.
3) I am currently applying to Aus Interventional fellowships, but their cycle starts in Feb/2016, which I cannot join, let us say if I apply for Feb/2017 position, and if I am offered a position I can apply for "specialist short-term training pathway" for limited registration? But, they would not consider me for a position as I am not PR yet. Catch 22!

So, how should I start the process for Aus, and in the mean time hang out in the US of A working as an attending. Based on what I have read in this thread so far, does the following order of business seem reasonable?

1) Look for job/further fellowship in US
2) Apply to AMC for primary source
3) Once board eligible or certified in cardiology, apply for "specialist college" assessment

 

[gj1]

You're lack of Cardiology Boards will be difficult for you to make a case for specialist, but as long as you've completed a recognized cardiology fellowship in USA or Australia, I would apply AMC cardiology. You will ultimately do a specialty specific interview then get assessed as either: 1) fully compatible 2) partially compatible, or 3) incompatible to an Australian Trainee. If you are fully trained US physician with completion of a recognized US/AUS fellowship, you will likely get rated 'partially compatible', which subjects you to 2 years of supervised work in AUS with quarterly college assessments and passing specialty Board Exams. If you're deemed fully compatible, you can skip the process. Incompatible and you have to repeat your residency.

To get recognized as fully compatible, you will have to pass your specialty specific boards (certified, not eligible), gain several years of distinguished clinical experience, move up the academic ladder and gamble that you get rated "fully compatible" when you reapply in the future. Even with all that you still run pretty high prob of getting rated partially compatible.

That's simplified version of how it works within College of Surgeons. Some specialties are more laid back on their ratings, others are very closed doors, so ask around within cardiology circles.

 

[Doc4Oz]

Hi there, Im new here, and I am sure this question has been thrashed at some point in the past. I just cant seem to find it.

I am an international medical graduate, working as an MO in my country and my fiance on the other hand has started her residency program.... about 2 years left

I have been looking at the option of migrating to Australia, and from my point of view, the first step is to get my foot in. I believe that will make the transition easy.

I have put in an application to UQ, Curtin and Flinders for Masters in Pub Health, and I hope to write the boards while I'm at it. I believe or hope that once I pass the boards, I can start the process of getting a job/placement. If that gets through, then I can start the process of applying to DIAC for the PR. Am i right in my thinking or being overly ambitious? The ultimate aim is to start a residency program ASAP. Its a more expensive route, but less cumbersome... ..or so it seems

Also, would my fiances residency be recognized?

Thanks

 

[C.P.]

You're lack of Cardiology Boards will be difficult for you to make a case for specialist, but as long as you've completed a recognized cardiology fellowship in USA or Australia, I would apply AMC cardiology. You will ultimately do a specialty specific interview then get assessed as either: 1) fully compatible 2) partially compatible, or 3) incompatible to an Australian Trainee. If you are fully trained US physician with completion of a recognized US/AUS fellowship, you will likely get rated 'partially compatible', which subjects you to 2 years of supervised work in AUS with quarterly college assessments and passing specialty Board Exams. If you're deemed fully compatible, you can skip the process. Incompatible and you have to repeat your residency.

To get recognized as fully compatible, you will have to pass your specialty specific boards (certified, not eligible), gain several years of distinguished clinical experience, move up the academic ladder and gamble that you get rated "fully compatible" when you reapply in the future. Even with all that you still run pretty high prob of getting rated partially compatible.

That's simplified version of how it works within College of Surgeons. Some specialties are more laid back on their ratings, others are very closed doors, so ask around within cardiology circles.

I echo what gj1 said. Your best route would be to continue to work in the US (fellowship, locums, or other), while applying to get your AMC certification completed. While you're doing this, start working with the Australian College (http://www.csanz.edu.au/) to understand what your application for assessment will entail and stat putting things together. These applications take time to assemble and you can save a lot of time by having it ready to send off the minute you're at the right step to do it.

When you do go for an assessment by the college of cardiologists, you'll want to have as much completed of your training as possible, plus additional experience, to help them rate you as highly as possible. As gj1 mentioned, you get three levels: "not compatible"; start over and do it all, "partially compatible"; a large spectrum where they will ask you to do some additional training to fill in any gaps they feel may exist, and "significantly comparable"; wherein you have to do almost nothing. Almost no-one will be given a "significantly comparable" rating. Expect to have to do a year or two of supervised work and maybe take their final exam. It may sound harsh, but it's really helpful to have a year or two where you've got people around to ask questions and help explain how the system works. If you do this time as a senior trainee/fellow here, you'll find it pretty laid back compared to the stress and pace of US training. . . and it pays a really decent wage too.

In the end though, the most important thing you need is your PR status. You'll be able to get all the other assessments done, but when it comes time to apply for a job (training or otherwise), you'll be at the bottom of the list unless you're a citizen or permanent resident. There are ways around this, but it really requires someone here to go to great lengths to work the system in your favour.

 

[C.P.]

Hi there, Im new here, and I am sure this question has been thrashed at some point in the past. I just cant seem to find it.

I am an international medical graduate, working as an MO in my country and my fiance on the other hand has started her residency program.... about 2 years left

I have been looking at the option of migrating to Australia, and from my point of view, the first step is to get my foot in. I believe that will make the transition easy.

I have put in an application to UQ, Curtin and Flinders for Masters in Pub Health, and I hope to write the boards while I'm at it. I believe or hope that once I pass the boards, I can start the process of getting a job/placement. If that gets through, then I can start the process of applying to DIAC for the PR. Am i right in my thinking or being overly ambitious? The ultimate aim is to start a residency program ASAP. Its a more expensive route, but less cumbersome... ..or so it seems

Also, would my fiances residency be recognized?

Thanks

Lots of issues to tackle:
Let's start with you fiancée. To get her training recognized in Australia, she'll have to go through the same process as yourself (getting AMC certification of her medical training, then applying to the specific specialty she's training in for recognition of the training she's already completed).

Coming to Australia to do a degree will give you a chance to network and connect with the medical community, which will be helpful for you to find someone who can help support your attempt to work here. Without PR or citizenship, it is possible to get a placement here and make the transition, but it is very difficult as hospitals have to consider local applications (those with permanent residency and citizenship) first. If you are able to find a place that can successfully sponsor you for a visa, then you can continue to work along the system to eventually get permanent residency.

What country is your training from? It may help to se if you can hunt down others coming from the same system. One way is to just look at webpages for different hospitals and their departments. Look at the staff and see if any have medical qualifications from your country that are in Australia, then contact them and see if they're willing to help you/give you some advice. It can be a nice way to make some contacts and find someone on the inside who is more likely to be sympathetic to the struggle you have ahead.
Does that help?

 

[confused!]

This has been a really useful forum. I wish trying to work in Australia was not this confusing!
I have completed residency in Internal Medicine in the US and am board certified. I have been working in the US as a hospitalist for a little over a year. I am looking to move to Australia. I am currently getting my credentials verified by the AMC and should be completed soon. I also applied for through the specialist pathway through RACP and have my assessment of comparability interview scheduled for later.
1. What is the purpose of this interview? What information should I have for them?
2. Will I need to go through a residency training program again? Or will I have to work under supervision (what CP refers to as bridging)?
3. Are there any positions I can apply for without having to go through training or having to work under supervision?
4. Do I need to apply for Permanent residency or can I rely on obtaining a work visa?
Please help! I have been trying go through the AMC and RACP websites but am only more confused!!

 

[C.P.]

Sorry for the slow response. I read your post and then lost track of time.

The important thing to understand is that you are, ultimately, dealing with 4 separate governing bodies.

1) The medical college. Their job, which is where your upcoming interview comes into play, is just to certify your capabilities as a fellow of the RACP.
This interview will help them determine what they'll want you to do to be considered equivalent. DO NOT underestimate the importance of this interview. This is, usually, a well-meaning collection of people, who are working to help support the college and the applicants that come through. Their overall task is to ensure safety in the capabilities of the doctors that come through. It is in their interest to be more conservative in their judgements (ie: require more from you to ensure there are no gaps in your skills). They are trained, but by no means experts, in your medical training and education. Your goal is to learn what their requirements are to classify you as equivalent to one of their consultants, and then show how your training and skills match up. If you spell this out for them, simply and clearly, making it easy for them to tick off the boxes that you need to meet. . . your life will be a lot easier.
Expect to be required to do some time. I call these "bridging years," but that's my term. They're not really training years. . . more like observation/probation. To be honest, they're a good thing. Medical systems are different, and ours are subtly different in some critical ways. Having a little adjustment period with people around you can feel comfortable asking questions of is a good thing.

2) The positions you can apply for all depend on how the medical college (RACP) classifies you and what they require you to finish. Ultimately, they'll classify you as some level of being a resident/senior resident. That doesn't mean you'll have to actually do a lot of the requirements for learning at that level, but it'll be the job you're able to apply for. It's not hard. You'll be scheduled like a trainee, but given the responsibilities (most likely) of an attending.

3) the other 3 bodies you need to deal with (aside from the RACP) are :
a: Australia. The RACP can tell you what you need to do to become board certified, but that doesn't mean you can actually work here. You need a work visa for that. The best way is permanent residency, but after that, it's getting sponsored for a position. Not easy, but do-able.
b: A Hospital. Just because you got past the RACP and have the requirements needed to become board certified, and have a visa to work, doesn't mean you'll be first in line to get hired for a job. Many places can't hire you until they've shown there are no eligible applicants who are permanent residents or citizens first. Again, it's not impossible, it's just harder.
These first two points all rely on simply having someone who is interested in working with you to get you a job. A little leg-work ahead of time to make some contacts makes all the difference.
c: Medicare. You've got the RACP assessment, you've got the work visa, you've got the job . . . and now you're finished and are an Attending.
Would you like to get paid? We'll for that you need a medicare billing number. This is something that is restricted if you're an overseas trained doctor, for ten years from the date you first work here. How can you get around this? Working in an area of need (aka: area of "District Workforce Shortage"), or having a partner who is an unrestricted doctor, or having an academic/teaching appointment at a University Medical School.

This may all sound daunting, but in the grand scheme, it's not that bad. It just takes time, diligence, and planning.
The main thing to always have at the forefront is, why do you want to work in Australia? Moving medical practices to another country is never easy, so you just need to make sure you're motivated and ready to put in the effort.

 

[confused!]

Thank you for the reply CP! I need to look into applying for permanent residency now..

 

[GTFC]

Hi C.P.
Thank you for all the information its been really helpful!
just a few quick questions, im an Australia citizen did majority of my high school in Australia, but i had to move to China with my family, ive started a MBBS degree in China (approved by IMED) its a 6 year degree with the last year being internship.
does my year of internship count as anything? or is it useless? and ive looked at the ranking system with regarding to internship allocation im not 100% sure which category i will be considered under. and also is the procedure to becoming a GP the same as the steps of becoming a specialist?
thank you so much for providing such in-depth breaking of this impossible to understand system
keen to hear back from you soon

 

[C.P.]

Your internship will count for something, but what it counts for will be determined by how the AMC assesses your medical credentials.
It definitely won't hurt your qualifications.
At your current level of training, you'd likely be applying through the Standard Pathway, which can be found here: http://www.amc.org.au/assessment/pathways
The process for coming through as a specialist would be different, but the overall goes along a similar process: you'll need your general medical credentials certified first, and from that point, direction for further assessment (if needed) to help decide what specific training you'll need to get the point you desire.

I hope this helps.

 

[ctusfinest]

Reviving an old thread here to ask a quick question that I think I already know the answer to. I am a surgeon hoping to do a specific one year fellowship in Melbourne. My wife will be a fully trained pediatric specialist in the US once I start my fellowship and was hoping to either work or do some research for a year. She wouldn't be disappointed about having to just take a year off but it wouldn't be her first choice. Is there any reasonable way for her to work or train for a year or should she plan on just enjoying a lovely year off in Oz?

 

[C.P.]

She's got two limiting factors:
1) working in any capacity.
2) clinically working

For her to do any kind of work that will be paid for, she'll need some kind of working visa.
To do anything that will involve the clinical care of patients, she'll need to be medically credentialed, which would be the same process you would have had to go through to do your fellowship in Melbourne.

If she's a citizen or has permanent residency in Australia, then she doesn't have to worry about the work visa.

One way around things, to a degree, is to get involved with a research program/project. She'd be dong non-clinical work, and depending on her visa status, could do it as a paid position, or unpaid.

When would your fellowship year likely be starting?

Another option is to sign up with a locums agency and see if they can find some short-term work while you're there. It would allow them to take care of the licensing paperwork, and give her some options to do some work.

Worst case scenario is that she has no visa and no medical credentialing, but don't underestimate how far a little ingenuity can go to set up a great option for something creative and interesting during that year.

 

[ctusfinest]

She is a dual citizen (Australia and US), and my fellowship is over 18 months away from starting.

 

[C.P.]

That does create some interesting possibilities.
I'd look into getting her through the medical registrations process.
She may only have to get AMC certification to then qualify for a training spot as a subspecialty fellowship (which, unless you went through the full certification process, is what should have happened for you too).

Unless you want her to get board certified in Australia, which would require a lot more work, it should only require the process you would have gone through to get your medical credentials certified.

If this sounds like something you'd be interested in, then I'd also look into making contact with a lot of the Melbourne hospitals she might be interested in working at and begin conversations with them on their potential interest in having her there for a year. It'd give her a much more solidified idea of what to expect and give her the ability to better arrange a year that's interesting and rewarding too.
There are a lot of hospitals, but ideally the same hospital as yours, or one which is logistically not far away from where you'd like to or likely be staying at.

Does this help?

 

[hirachisauce]

Hey there CP,
Been following your posts for a while. Thanks for all the good info. I am a resident in the states and am in the process of making the move over to Oz (wife's Aussie). I plan on starting or continuing training there. Would appreciate any further advice/input.

 

[bashwell]

I would think it'd be better to complete your radiology training (residency) in the US, then come to Australia. Just my opinion.

 

[C.P.]

Without knowing anything more about your details, I'd listen to bashwell's advice.
Now, that being said, a move overseas like this is rarely for career benefit (I always say it's for love, family, or money), but that doesn't mean you can't structure it to benefit you in the long term.
Before I can give you the best advice, I need to know a few things:

Wife: is she a doctor too, and if so, did she complete medical school in Australia?
You: do you have permanent residency (or citizenship) in Australia?

Here's the simplest breakdown of what I'll likely tell you.

If you can wait a couple years to get to australia, wait and complete your training in the US.
IF you can't wait, I'll tell you some of the hurdles in front of you.

Essentially, if you finish your training in the US first, you'll be able to enter into Australia on the "specialist" pathway, and then do some bridging training to complete your Australian certification.
In the end (most likely) you'll spend less time overall to become dual boarded in the US and Australia, than it would take you to transition now and just complete your training in Australia alone.
Depending on your residency status too, you may struggle to get into a full training program.
As opposed to the US, where you're either in a training program or not, Australia has a lot of temporary training positions that don't actually contribute to your formal specialty training. They're seen more as years to build up yours skills and competitiveness for getting a guaranteed training spot in a specialty program.
As a non-australian, you're required to be considered AFTER all other eligible local applications have been exhausted. This isn't always bad, but really requires you to be a lot more flexible with where you're willing to live/train.
If you're moving to Australia to be by your wife's family or a specific geographic location, this could really make things tough.

No point in moving to Oz to be by your wife's family in Melbourne, but end up only finding a training spot in northern queensland.

Anyway,
I'll wait to see what your situation is and tell you more.

 

[hirachisauce]

Thanks for that. No she's not a doc and no, not a PR just yet.

 

[xresident]

Hi C.P, the posts you wrote here are simple amazing, thank for all your dedication. I 've gone through a long road and need some orientation, though I have already read a lot and talk to the australian medical board, migration offices, etc, the process to come here is not as clear as the US one and maybe you know something I don't know yet. I did 2 years of OBGYN residency in the US but unfortunately I was non renewed for the following years and had to resign. Then I went back home and work as a general doctor for a year, I met my australian girlfriend, to whom I finally moved to and now we are living together close to Perth, WA. Currently I need to get a high band in the IELTS which is an english test I'm required to take as I don't come from an english speaking country, will take my test soon. I want to apply to the competent pathway and get provisional registration, have supervision practice for a year and get general registration, and eventually move onto a specialty from there. However, I read in one of your posts above that if you haven't completed the training in the US you can apply through the competent pathway and also still apply for specialty registration? Could you explain that a bit more please? Do you know of anyone who did this? Because if thats the case I would consider highly applying for a junior registrar position in OBGYN. I like internal medicine and other branches of medicine too and can see myself happily working in any of those fields but as you mention, the whole training here in OZ is very long! Would really appreciate your advice C.P! Thank you!