US News 2016 Medical School Rankings

[caffeinemia]

At least we agree that surgery is not primary care!

HAHAHAHA. I wonder what specialty i just offended

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[gyngyn]

HAHAHAHA. I wonder what specialty i just offended

No offense. I have consulted G. Surg. many times in my career.
I consult Medicine almost every week! I don't feign superiority, rather I am happy to have colleagues who generously share their expertise.

 

[caffeinemia]

No offense. I have consulted G. Surg. many times in my career.
I consult Medicine almost every week! I don't feign superiority, rather I am happy to have colleagues who generously share their expertise.

Y'all's Heaney stitch. Grrr!

I have to say though -- c-sections ... craziest thing ever. Excising a tumor that cries when you do!!!

 

[gyngyn]

Y'all's Heaney stitch. Grrr!

I have to say though -- c-sections ... craziest thing ever. Excising a tumor that cries when you do!!!

I believe that stitch was invented to prevent lost resident pedicles in a vaginal hysterectomy where the vessels would go north never to be found!
No arguments on cesarean deliveries.

 

[caffeinemia]

I believe that stitch was invented to prevent lost resident pedicles in a vaginal hysterectomy where the vessels would go north never to be found!
No arguments on cesarean deliveries.

Agree, but sometimes when they are poorly tied and not pushed down below the clamp... they fall off and then you get stuff like DIC from 4L of blood loss. That's a general surgery/SICU/massive transfusion nightmare!

 

[gyngyn]

Agree, but sometimes when they are poorly tied and not pushed down below the clamp... they fall off and then you get stuff like DIC from 4L of blood loss. That's a general surgery/SICU/massive transfusion nightmare!

If only you had the denominator including the times where the lost pedicle was caught.
Like many surgical debates, we are unlikely to see an RCT!

 

[mmmcdowe]

Probably because these rankings are mostly meaningless in the first place? It makes no sense when you have 3 schools tied for 10 so that they can all brag that they are in the top 10

I think the problem is more that these ranks are designed to parse out the tiny differences between top programs, and thus as you go farther down you tend to see a lot more homogeneity.

 

[mmmcdowe]

At least we agree that surgery is not primary care!

Ah, but it is my primary form of care.

 

[caffeinemia]

If only you had the denominator including the times where the lost pedicle was caught.
Like many surgical debates, we are unlikely to see an RCT!

Fine. Fine. Just prodding to see if I can get away with it.

Just stay away from our abdominoplasties! ROAR!

 

[gyngyn]

Ah, but it is my primary form of care.

Maybe that's what he meant...

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Great news for NYU Med- rank 14, above WCMC.
Amazing cause in 2015:
15-WCMC
19 TIE- Icahn (Mt. Sinai)
19 TIE- NYU Med

Interesting how WCMC went down (now 18) and Icahn fell by one rank to 20, yet NYU jumped up (from 19 to 14!)

 

[efle]

Great news for NYU Med- rank 14, above WCMC.
Amazing cause in 2015:
15-WCMC
19 TIE- Icahn (Mt. Sinai)
19 TIE- NYU Med

Interesting how WCMC went down (now 18) and Icahn fell by one rank to 20, yet NYU jumped up (from 19 to 14!)

So did something slightly change in the ranking formula or did they do something different to boost their rank?

 

[Dr. Stalker]

So did something slightly change in the ranking formula or did they do something different to boost their rank?

No idea about which, my own (based on pure conjecture) guess is that each school did something slightly different. Granted, all 3 of those schools are amazing, I don't think someone accepted to any of them would be upset by any means lol

 

[NickNaylor]

So did something slightly change in the ranking formula or did they do something different to boost their rank?

I'm not sure if this occurred with this year's data or if it will apply to next year's data, but USNWR is planning on switching to a median (rather than mean) calculation of the MCAT score.

 

[efle]

No idea about which, my own (based on pure conjecture) guess is that each school did something slightly different.

I wonder what they can really do, aside from try to boost the median stats of their acceptees?

I don't think someone accepted to any of them would be upset by any means lol

Hah! I've met a few especially egotistical undergrads still bitter about their HYPSM rejections so I'm skeptical, but I like your optimism

 

[efle]

I'm not sure if this occurred with this year's data or if it will apply to next year's data, but USNWR is planning on switching to a median (rather than mean) calculation of the MCAT score.

Pretty sure that was around last year too, iirc the stats table always listed "median MCAT total score"

 

[Psai]

Great news for NYU Med- rank 14, above WCMC.
Amazing cause in 2015:
15-WCMC
19 TIE- Icahn (Mt. Sinai)
19 TIE- NYU Med

Interesting how WCMC went down (now 18) and Icahn fell by one rank to 20, yet NYU jumped up (from 19 to 14!)

It's actually not that interesting at all

 

[efle]

It's actually not that interesting at all

You sure hate these rankings huh. Like most people sort of roll their eyes and ignore US News antics but you're out there actively being annoyed! Just let the dummies enjoy their meaningless shuffling of numbers in peace damn you

 

[Dr. Stalker]

It's actually not that interesting at all

its totally uninteresting, thanks for the reply

 

[Psai]

You sure hate these rankings huh. Like most people sort of roll their eyes and ignore US News antics but you're out there actively being annoyed! Just let the dummies enjoy their meaningless shuffling of numbers in peace damn you

I'm not annoyed or hating. I just think that it's funny that that kid is getting excited over nothing

 

[Shams al Deen]

You sure hate these rankings huh. Like most people sort of roll their eyes and ignore US News antics but you're out there actively being annoyed! Just let the dummies enjoy their meaningless shuffling of numbers in peace damn you

Lol his school is probably in that 'rank not published' category.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

I'm not annoyed or hating. I just think that it's funny that that kid is getting excited over nothing

have actually never been this excited in my entire life*

 

[efle]

I'm not annoyed or hating. I just think that it's funny that that kid is getting excited over nothing

Lol his school is probably in that 'rank not published' category.

Is it true Psai?? Are you in the Too Embarrassing to Publish category? Explains why you're saltier than the dead sea about all the Top 20 adoration around here !

*Before I get probation again: I jest! I'll be lucky to get into Psai's school even if it is in the Caribbean

** ^ Also a joke guys

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Is it true Psai?? Are you in the Too Embarrassing to Publish category? Explains why you're saltier than the dead sea about all the Top 20 adoration around here !

*Before I get probation again: I jest! I'll be lucky to get into Psai's school even if it is in the Caribbean

** ^ Also a joke guys

Hey now, Hollywood Upstairs Medical College is a top tier, ranked at #0, I'd do just about anything to get in there. Rumor has it their mcat average is 46 (not a typo, you read that properly, I wrote 46).

Their alumni are pretty darn famous too,

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Is it true Psai?? Are you in the Too Embarrassing to Publish category? Explains why you're saltier than the dead sea about all the Top 20 adoration around here !

*Before I get probation again: I jest! I'll be lucky to get into Psai's school even if it is in the Caribbean

** ^ Also a joke guys

I got accepted to a RNP school with a reputation for training stronger clinicians than a lot of the "top" schools. So the USNWR is as useless as @Psai says it is.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

I got accepted to a RNP school with a reputation for training stronger clinicians than a lot of the "top" schools. So the USNWR is as useless as @Psai says it is.

USNWR is just a systematic ranking. No one is challenging your school and its quality. I totally agree certain schools that are RNP are arguably pretty good too. However, I think @efle and almost everyone else here (other than you and Psai) would agree that having a universal ranking for reference and information is useful. Also, you willing to go to bat saying your school trains better docs than a top 20? If so share the wisdom haha, let the entire SDN community learn about your school.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

USNWR is just a systematic ranking. No one is challenging your school and its quality. I totally agree certain schools that are RNP are arguably pretty good too. However, I think @efle and almost everyone else here (other than you and Psai) would agree that having a universal ranking for reference and information is useful. Also, you willing to go to bat saying your school trains better docs than a top 20? If so share the wisdom haha, let the entire SDN community learn about your school.

USNWR is known for not making its rank list based on the important metrics, i.e. strength and quality and clinical training. Who cares if you have lots of money for research if you train physicians who are terrible clinicians (and by terrible, I mean less than what they could have been if their school focused on clinical training more than research)? If you want a "universal ranking" for reference, then you'll need to create an entirely new list that brings ALL the important factors into account, not just research. However, as @Psai already stated in this thread before:

Not only are they completely unable to measure clinical year quality, they don't even attempt it. It's a very nebulous thing. How can you grade a teacher's quality? One student may thrive on being grilled with difficult questions while another may collapse under the pressure. Your service may be slammed so your attending has no time to teach but someone else got great lectures daily. Your residents may be going through personal problems. One person may have chosen easier rotations than others. The chair could have retired so the solid department may become terrible. You can have vastly different experiences at the same school from the guy sitting next to you. How do you judge?

Not only do rankings not matter the way you think, the change in ranking is probably just as useless

So it's most likely close to impossible to form an actually useful list. When I see USNWR's list, I think "Oh look, nothing's really changed. The 'top' schools still have lots of research money. And all the other schools seem to be tied with each other because USNWR is too lazy to actually make a meaningful list."

 

[efle]

a reputation for training stronger clinicians than a lot of the "top" schools.

Care to back that up with a match list of Top 10 caliber? Or has this reputation not reached all the best residency programs yet

So the USNWR is as useless as @Psai says it is.

Oh absolutely it's pretty clearly not something to pick schools by, that's what makes people's aggressive disapproval of it so funny. Why does anyone care?? Like I said, if people want to be idiots, let them. Snide comments about it, or explanations about how it can't capture all the reasons your poorly ranked school trains better docs than the most selective schools in the country, doesn't really radiate the indifference y'all say it deserves.

 

[efle]

I think @efle and almost everyone else here (other than you and Psai) would agree that having a universal ranking for reference and information is useful.

To clarify, I think the Research Ranks are a bad way to look at med schools. I don't care about how much research money a school gets, because that really only matters if you want to get ahead on your way towards a career in academic med. To me a system which ranks quality of clinical training/prep for residency would be vastly more useful, but like Ace and Psai have said, that's not something you can make. What IS useful is all the information provided on median GPAs, acceptance rates, etc. Now if only I could trust that their numbers were all legit...

Also, you willing to go to bat saying your school trains better docs than a top 20? If so share the wisdom haha, let the entire SDN community learn about your school.

Step 1 - be the only place to accept a high-achieving SDNer.
Step 2 - watch as they decide your school is actually better than the most renowned and selective schools for intangible reasons they have yet to witness or experience.
Step 3 - ???
Step 4 - profit

 

[meowfish6868]

I got accepted to a RNP school with a reputation for training stronger clinicians than a lot of the "top" schools. So the USNWR is as useless as @Psai says it is.

I think this is a common sentiment amongst people at schools that aren't necessarily top-ranked/prestigious schools. I talked to a few people who graduated from the school I will likely be matriculating at who insisted that this school better prepared them for residency/clinical medicine than the top schools did. I can't say whether they are right or not, but I feel like it's more of an ego boost.

I agree with you that USNWR isn't a great tool to use in picking between schools, but it does have some helpful information (acceptance data! If only MSAR would publish this...).

I think people focus on it too much as a status measure, with some people using it to reinforce their superiority, while others get bitter about only being accepted into "low tier" schools. I'm not calling you out specifically and see where you're coming from. I only got accepted at lower ranked schools and received my only post-interview rejection from the highest ranked school that I interviewed at.

There are definitely differences between the top and bottom ranked schools, however getting into any of these schools is a great privilege.

 

[efle]

There are definitely differences between the top and bottom ranked schools

I hope you own a pitchfork-proof vest

this school better prepared them for residency/clinical medicine than the top schools did.

How could they ever possibly know this?

 

[Psai]

Trying to explain something with any kind of nuance to a premed is more useless than talking to a wall. So many opinions without any idea what you're talking about. Getting all giddy after insinuating that someone goes to a low ranked school lmao so pathetic. Get into medical school first kids. Acting all superior like you're a direct descendant of Osler or something. No idea how half of you manage to stumble into medical school

You wouldn't know a good match list if it bit you in the ass

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Trying to explain something with any kind of nuance to a premed is more useless than talking to a wall. So many opinions without any idea what you're talking about. Getting all giddy after insinuating that someone goes to a low ranked school lmao so pathetic. Get into medical school first kids. Acting all superior like you're a direct descendant of Osler or something. No idea how half of you manage to stumble into medical school

You wouldn't know a good match list if it bit you in the ass

you're right, I envy your medical student status. Its so nice I'm about to change my status to medical student. Ouch something just bit me in the ass. Not sure what, definitely not a good match list cause I wouldn't know what that is.

 

[efle]

Trying to explain something with any kind of nuance to a premed is more useless than talking to a wall. You kids have so many opinions without any idea what you're talking about. No idea how half of you manage to stumble into medical school

Oh **** it's the I'm a med student and you're lowly undergrad peons therefor I win trump card! Plus a good dose of you're-all-stupid and I'm-too-nuanced-4-u condescension. /thread, with the incredibly ironic finish of psai making a snide comment about people he claims not to care about, immediately after it was pointed out that his snide comments contradict the lack of caring

PS. Does getting an acceptance allow someone to call you out or would one of us have to step foot on campus before we can point you out as a salty arrogant hypocrite?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Trying to explain something with any kind of nuance to a premed is more useless than talking to a wall. So many opinions without any idea what you're talking about. Getting all giddy after insinuating that someone goes to a low ranked school lmao so pathetic. Get into medical school first kids. Acting all superior like you're a direct descendant of Osler or something. No idea how half of you manage to stumble into medical school

You wouldn't know a good match list if it bit you in the ass

I think you took efle's joke a bit too personally.

 

[efle]

Trying to explain something with any kind of nuance to a premed is more useless than talking to a wall. So many opinions without any idea what you're talking about. Getting all giddy after insinuating that someone goes to a low ranked school lmao so pathetic. Get into medical school first kids. Acting all superior like you're a direct descendant of Osler or something. No idea how half of you manage to stumble into medical school

You wouldn't know a good match list if it bit you in the ass

Love the edits, added a lot.

1) It was a joke about you being at a low-ranked man, which I pointed out, twice, plus we established nobody here really gaf about ranks

2) Please use your med school wisdom to teach us! Eg explain to me how to read the match lists such that I understand how Eastern Virginia's is of equal quality to Penn's. Much appreciated

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Love the edits, added a lot.

1) It was a joke about you being at a low-ranked man, which I pointed out, twice, plus we established nobody here really gaf about ranks

2) Please use your med school wisdom to teach us! Eg explain to me how to read the match lists such that I understand how Eastern Virginia's is of equal quality to Penn's. Much appreciated

But how many East Virginia students were actually aiming for academic programs?

 

[Psai]

There are more words than snide and salty out there, try opening up a thesaurus once in a while

 

[Dr. Stalker]

There are more words than snide and salty out there, try opening up a thesaurus once in a while

OMG thesaurus? That's my favorite dinosaur. You med students are Gods, yanno? I mean,you were, like, NEVER, a pre-medical,or to shorten it, pre-med student, right? Us pre-meds are the most wretched thing on this earth. IMO your RNP medical school should just staff hospitals across the united states with your medical students, not residents or attendings.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

There are more words than snide and salty out there, try opening up a thesaurus once in a while

You shouldn't talk down to us pre-meds. You're forgetting that at one point, you were us. Probably not your highest moment in life, that's a given. But, give us more credit. We may not know as much medical science as you cause you're in medical school and we're not. However, we aren't just nitwits- we actually care to analyze stuff beyond the published rankings and comprehend that.

And FYI, I think almost all pre-meds are aware of a match list and the hot residencies, such as Dermatology- do you ever rank match lists by how many competitive specialties? If so, you might like your ranking of it, but that is still a ranking, like US News 2016 Med school ranking, and means something to someone, and is a good reference at times. Maybe not to everyone, but still to you. So, don't knock down the rankings- this all got started cause you said its "not interesting" how the ranks fluctuate. To some people it is. To me personally, seeing a top tier (NYU) move even more to the top is amazing because I didn't think that particular school could get better because of how amazing it is, so figuring out the "why" aspect of it is also huge, especially for us pre-medical students who may ultimately end up pursing some of these schools.

 

[meowfish6868]

I hope you own a pitchfork-proof vest.

Unfortunately, I don't. Can I borrow one?

How could they ever possibly know this?

They most likely don't know this. The only evidence they offered is anecdotal statements about being more prepared for residency than their peers who came from top ranked schools.

 

[efle]

But how many East Virginia students were actually aiming for academic programs?

I don't think I understand this, probably because I can't read match lists

There are more words than snide and salty out there, try opening up a thesaurus once in a while

wait wait let me try. You forgot punctuation at the end of your sentence, try becoming fully literate you salty, snide, thin-skinned, flammable ******. this is fun!

But really psai let's give it a rest, sorry I wasn't clear enough that I was joking next time I'll say it three times. hug it out bro

 

[efle]

Unfortunately, I don't. Can I borrow one?


They most likely don't know this. The only evidence they offered is anecdotal statements about being more prepared for residency than their peers who came from top ranked schools.

This must be you returning to our little thread here

 

[meowfish6868]

This must be you returning to our little thread here

Seriously...

(re: all of us cranky people that need to chill out).

 

[efle]

Seriously... View attachment 190293 (re: all of us cranky people that need to chill out).

Honestly any thread I get involved with ends up all

 

[Ace Khalifa]

To be fair, @Psai, I was trying to defend you somewhat. EVMS pioneered the standardized patient program, so of course they will be one of the strongest in clinical training during all 4 years. And of course, premeds should not use match lists at all when determining which school to attend or even apply to. It is completely dependent on the specific motivations for each class, which you can't get from glancing over the list. Also, med student > premed who got accepted > premed who hasn't applied yet.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Honestly any thread I get involved with ends up all

No, they don't- you're just smart enough and gutsy enough to call out bullsh*t when you see it, dear friend.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Trying to explain something with any kind of nuance to a premed is more useless than talking to a wall. So many opinions without any idea what you're talking about. Getting all giddy after insinuating that someone goes to a low ranked school lmao so pathetic. Get into medical school first kids. Acting all superior like you're a direct descendant of Osler or something. No idea how half of you manage to stumble into medical school

You wouldn't know a good match list if it bit you in the ass

I heard your med student status beats all other med student statuses. I hope one day I can be even half the medical student you are. Like really wow dude, you're an inspiration. Talking down to pre-meds who were having a sincere and honest discussion about rankings? What were WE thinking????

 

[Dr. Stalker]

probably because the rankings reflect arbitrarily chosen factors, some of which don't have anything to do with quality of medical education

If you don't care for rankings, then why the hell are you commenting dude?

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Do you know what the word prestige means

no plz teach me i r st00pid pre-med u r g0d med stewdent