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US podiatry graduates to replace foreign medical grads

Discussion in 'Podiatry Students' started by aPeainthePod, 09.24.11.

  1. aPeainthePod

    aPeainthePod Pod-Guy

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    Like DOs who do not have the MD degree and do not have the full and exact MD curriculum, infact their whole philosophy on treating a patient is completely different than an allopathic teaching, however, are allowed to apply to medical as well as osteopathic residencies. US podiatry graduates should be able to do the same. I believe we are more deeply rooted to the US academic system and training than the foreign medical grads. I think this is a legitimate proposal. Podiatry grads do have the proper and equal training. Podiatry graduates should ATLEAST have that option in my opinion. Some curriculum differences do exist but are not so far off. Off course, there is more of a focus on surgical and orthopedics courses in the 3rd and 4th years and not so much clinical ob gun and pediatrics. If someone is to say the differences in teaching and training are too severe to recognize equality than what are the bases of the national boards exploring acceptance of the current USMLE clinical skills exam to incorporate into pediatric liscenure. This exam will be taken side by side MD and DO grads in the current 5 centers. This "USMLE STEP II CS exam requires full medical knowledge and is like a pretend day at a family clinic seeing general medicine patients. If this proposal goes through without the creation of a seperate foot and ankle related clinical skills exam, obviously then the differences are not so great.
    Last edited: 09.24.11
  2. air bud

    air bud

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    It wasn't easy thanks to the run-on sentences.
  3. FiveOVicryl

    FiveOVicryl

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    Seeing how you have absolutely NO clue what your talking about, you must either be a prepod or someone who attends a stand alone institution. Do some research, you'll see our podiatry curriculum has significant differences from the MD curriculum (especially in the 3rd and 4th year).​

    Either way :thumbdown: to you.​
  4. fzwarrior

    fzwarrior

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    Osteopathic curriculum is exactly the same as allopathic with the addition of OMM.
  5. air bud

    air bud

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    1. You are wrong. DO = MD for 99.9 percent of DO graduates. For those .01 percent of DO graduates, OMM is more than a class they have to take to get to where they want to go.
    2. It is not a FULL curriculum. It is a LITE version in a lot of instances. Know how to recognize and refer on. For instance, I got tested on 6 or 8 heart sounds, the basic ones. DO's got tested on 20 something heart sounds.
    3. We don't flat out ignore, but following an internal med resident for a few weeks on your core as a 4th year does not make you ready to be an IM resident.
    4. No, its not a legitimate proposal
    5. No, its not equivalent training. It is a specfic training designed to make us the best podiatrists possible (ok, maybe a few changes, but still..)

    So yes, if you want to apply to non-pod residencies, go to a non-pod school.
    Quit trying to stir crap up
    Last edited: 09.24.11
  6. TimmyT

    TimmyT

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    This proposal is retarded. Not all podiatry schools are a watered down version of D.O. curriculum. WesternU’s program has to take the exact same exam as the D.O.’s and required to know everything they do minus OMM. We can’t just recognize and refer. We have to diagnosis and treat.
  7. FiveOVicryl

    FiveOVicryl

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    Timmy are you a 1st year? :laugh:

    I dare you to repost this comment after finishing your 3rd/4th year.
  8. TimmyT

    TimmyT

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    No. I'm actually a second year. How does reposting this in a year or two matter?
  9. FiveOVicryl

    FiveOVicryl

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    During your 3rd and especially the 4th year, ALL podiatry curriculums differs from the DO/MD curriculum. If you tell me Western does not change at all during these years, then i'll be the first to state Western has the WORST podiatry progam in the country (however this is obviously not the case). As we start to focus heavily on the F/A during this time, what do you think the MD/DO are doing?

    Edit: Realize that i'm not saying one curriculum is better than the other. Our podiatry curriculum NEEDS to be different as we chose to specialize in the F/A.
  10. air bud

    air bud

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    Timmy, you may take the same classes as the D.O.'s. At DMU we don't, so you have that. But like Vicryl said, its one thing to learn it in class, but it is completely different to see in clinically, which you wont in 3rd and 4th year. At least not substantiatively

    EDIT: I do want to clarify that once you GET to residency, you will need to learn how to properly medically manage patients. However, the OP's proposal has to do with students attempting to get into MD/DO residencies.
    Last edited: 09.24.11
  11. TimmyT

    TimmyT

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    I really can’t comment too much about 3/4th year until I’m actually in it. But our current 3rd year students rotate along Medical students in LA (Greater VA hospital, UCLA-olive view, Downey, and some county hospitals) and learn everything they do. That is my understanding. We get the same amount exposure in F/A as any other POD school. During first two years we have a class called PMP I-IV where we learn everything about podiatry. It is case-based learning where our faculty provides us with ACTUAL cases they had in the past. They incorporate anatomy, biomechanics, and radiology into what we are learning at the time. We have small group discussions where a faculty goes over the cases with us. For EVERY case we have to know how the patient clinically presents, read a x-ray or MRI or CT, pathology behind it, risk factors, natural history, diagnostic tests, when to use conservative treatment or surgical treatment, what conservative treatments to use, what surgical treatments to use, and what complications we can come across. They do a good job teaching us what we’re actually going to see in the clinics.
  12. TimmyT

    TimmyT

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    We also have a class called ECM where they teach us everything we need to know in the clinics (Not really podiatry related, its just general medicine). We have MD/DO instructors teaching us how to do H&P, focused physical exams and case presentations. My roommate is a DO student and its almost identical to theirs.
  13. amaprez

    amaprez

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    This isn't something exclusive to Western or anything. Every school has a 'podiatry' class, whether it's case based or lecture based.

    EDIT: My bad TimmyT! Read your post too quickly at first :laugh:
    Last edited: 09.24.11
  14. FiveOVicryl

    FiveOVicryl

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    I'm sure Timmy was simply describing what classes are like at Western. He would have to be a complete idiot (which i'm sure he is not) to think Western has a class that teaches "exclusive" material that is not taught at other podiatry schools.
  15. jellybean2020

    jellybean2020

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    I was shadowing a physical therapist in the LA area recently and met a few pod students from Western. They seemed pretty confident in their clinical knowledge to me.
    Last edited: 09.24.11
  16. zane870

    zane870

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    Haha- we learn double-top-secret-destroy after reading- tell you but I'll have to kill you- podiatry skills at Western!!

    Sorry if that's hard to read!:p
  17. doctazero

    doctazero

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  18. bobdolerson

    bobdolerson

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    Are you really saying you learn everything that both DO students and DPM students learn? You take identical curriculum, and additionally take extra DPM curriculum?

    I wasn't aware DO/DPM dual degrees actually existed, but that's what you're describing.
  19. FiveOVicryl

    FiveOVicryl

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    Cut him some slack, he is simply misinformed (may not be his fault). Once he reaches clinic his fantasy world will come crashing down if it hasnt already.
  20. javajava

    javajava

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    Check out NSUs program :)
  21. AttackNME

    AttackNME

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    :thumbup: Well put lol. Timmy, although you're learning the stuff now and feel on equal grounds with your DO/MD colleagues, you'll notice that soon in your 3rd/4th years, they will learn more about everything else and although you will be doing some rotations with them, it is not to the same extent, nor is the expectations of you the same.
  22. 347932

    347932

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    This is absolutely false.

    When you transition to residency, in your first year you MAY have some medical rotations where YOU are the intern/resident in charge. Especially if you are in a large teaching institution attached to a medical school, no one will care if you are "just" a podiatrist. Even though we have little psychiatry training in school, I had a month of psych in residency and was expected to perform as if I was a psych intern. When I was on ID, I was the only resident on the floor that month and had 3 medical school students to teach and guide through their rotation. Believe me, it was expected of me to be on the ball and know as much as anyone else rotating through as an intern/resident. In my ED month I was expected to do rectals and even though we didn't have much OB training, I was expected to know what I was doing (as much as a 1st year medical intern at least). Be prepared folks. Once you are through school you are a REAL doctor.
  23. FiveOVicryl

    FiveOVicryl

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    Are we all on the same page :confused:. While the info that you have provided is indeed accurate, we were discussing topics relating to the podiatry curriculum compared to the MD/DO curriculum. More specifically we were looking into the differences between the time we spend in clinic focusing on the F/A.
  24. 347932

    347932

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    Please reread the post I commented on. I felt my response was accurate in light of what AttackNMe wrote.
  25. TimmyT

    TimmyT

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    That is EXACTLY what the WesternU curriculum is.
  26. FiveOVicryl

    FiveOVicryl

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    We gave you a chance, you FAILED miserably to see the obvious. Looks like your ignorance is incurable :thumbdown:

    Best of luck to you, you'll need it.

    Edit: I'll attempt one last time to fix your stupidity. There are ONLY 12 months in a year correct? You will be spending a certain # of months on Podiatry services during your 3rd/4th year correct? Western's DO students will be spending most their time on other rotations/services during their 3rd/4th year correct? Unless Western podiatry program is longer than 4 years how can you do everything DO students do on top of your Podiatry curriculum? The answer is you CANNOT, you simply DO NOT have the time. There is no arguing what is so OBVIOUS to everyone else, either you get it or you truly are an idiot.
    Last edited: 09.25.11
  27. 347932

    347932

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    As I said many times on these forums, there are ways to relay the same message without coming across as you did in this post.

    It would serve you well to smooth out those rough edges. Just saying.
  28. RockyIV

    RockyIV

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    If by accurate you mean AttackNME was talking about residency and not 3rd/4th year curriculum...

    You are absolutely correct about residency. Only problem is that nobody else was talking about residency. Only you.

    I just feel bad for TimmyT and the rest of the Western students who have to sit thorugh 2 years of OMM, a month of OB, a month of psych, etc....with their curriculum being identical and all.
  29. TimmyT

    TimmyT

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    I don't think this thread needs to continue any longer. Just one more clarification, WesternU student DO NOT take OMM, a rotation in OB GYN, or a rotation in Psych. That is all and good luck to everyone.
  30. 347932

    347932

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    Wait until you do your IM rotation in 4th year or some of your externships where you will be dealing with high power MDs/DOs IM/ID docs who refer to your attendings who expect ALL students to be knowledgeable. Is that more relevant to the convo?
  31. docdonny

    docdonny

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    http://prospective.westernu.edu/osteopathic/curriculum

    Yet another clueless post:thumbdown:
  32. RockyIV

    RockyIV

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    lol, you know you are in a Podiatry forum and TimmyT was referring to DPM students at Western right??

    So you link the DO curriculum? Was that to prove that DPM students at Western do take OMM, OB, or psych? Don't worry, your cluelessness won't affect your success at Morehouse or Howard...
  33. RockyIV

    RockyIV

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    I spent ~6 months on Podiatry rotations in my 4th year and almost all of my 3rd year on podiatry. My MD counterparts (DO's would be the same) spent those 18 months on other rotations.

    AttackNME simply said that MD/DO's spend more time on non-podiatry related rotations. That is true. AttackNME also said that during your 3rd/4th year, less is expected of you when it comes to the non-podiatry rotations. That is also true. The Docs who take students from the various programs know when an MD/DO who has already had 2 months of IM is rotating vs. a DPM student on his first and only month.

    You're almost relevant...at least you are talking about 4th year and not residency this time around. But I doubt many students will share your experience of the MD/DO bringing down the wrath of God on a DPM student during their 1 month of IM.
  34. 347932

    347932

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    Things must have changed a great deal since I graduated.
  35. docdonny

    docdonny

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    Last edited: 09.27.11
  36. shenanigans327

    shenanigans327

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    .
    Last edited: 09.27.11
  37. 347932

    347932

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    Really?? Come on, folks. Have some professionalism please.
  38. bobdolerson

    bobdolerson

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    Seriously, be professional and don't be such a doo-doo head.
  39. Ferocity

    Ferocity

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    Bans need to be handed out more liberally.
  40. RockyIV

    RockyIV

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    I like how docdonny edits his post because he doesn't want to argue with pedicurists. Especially when said Pedicurist (that's me) made him realize how ignorant his post was.

    Why can't anyone take responsibility for their actions nowadays? All ol' Donny had to do was say:

    "hey, my bad guys. I only read the post that said 'WesternU' students don't take certain classes. I figured that had to be wrong since there is no way a DO program would skip OB and Psych. So I looked it up and posted before I took a second to think about what I was posting. Silly me. Sorry everyone! Carry on with the discussion that I obviously can't contribute to!"

    Problem solved.
  41. zane870

    zane870

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    This thread started off useless and some how has managed to get worse!!
  42. aPeainthePod

    aPeainthePod Pod-Guy

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    Conclusion.
    Podiatry grads are trained to be foot and ankle specialist. They do not have sufficient training and to work as general medicine residents.
    Thanks for all of your professional and some not so professional inputs.
  43. Traum

    Traum

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    At major academic teaching hospitals, the podiatric surgical intern is THE intern on whatever service he/she is on. They must function in exactly the same manner, call sch, responsiblities as any other intern. Cannot comment on band aid box hospitals, community hospitals, etc...

    They simply cannot act as a MSIII or MS IV, or shadow the "real" intern. They are the intern and must have the training to care for in house patients at tertiary care medical facilities.

    As a PGY II or III, they still must medically and of surgically manage their patients. Otherwise, the parity vision, 2015, etc... is just another PR campaign.

    If want to wear the lab coat, use the physician title--it must be earned through exactly the same training and testing (eventually) ,and the ability to act in a manner as the general medical resident, as the foot and ankle are connected to the body.
  44. Ferocity

    Ferocity

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    :thumbup:
  45. robopod97

    robopod97

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    Same exams, different grading systems. Tell the full story!
  46. amaprez

    amaprez

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    No...actually exactly the same grading system: same exams, no curve. (I assume we're talking about midterms & finals). In fact, from talking to WesternU students on here, it seems that in 3rd/4th years they are required to take the same shelf exams that DO/MD students take for their rotations (ie. Medicine shelf, FM shelf, Surg shelf). It'll be interesting to see if more schools follow their lead and institute this in upcoming years.
  47. Podiatry1

    Podiatry1

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    This thread is the biggest waste of space on this forum.

    Guys. Quit whining. We are not in a allopathic or osteopathic medical program. Do not kid yourself. Yes our program is incredibly rigorous, just like theirs.... but it is different. If you seriously are that insecure that you are trying to convince yourself that you are something you are not then please go and check yourself into a MD or DO psychiatrist.

    After reading some of the posts in this thread, how can any other professional consider a podiatrist as anything other than a insecure person who doesnt know what they are.

    If you wanna go to medical school.... then well. do it. grades too crappy to? thats what SMPs and post bacc programs are for. get some research exerpience.... go to podiatry school to be a podiatrist, foot ankle specialist, or anything else you wanna call it... but dont go to podiatry school to be a MD.... and stop kidding yourselves.

  48. skiz knot

    skiz knot Legendary Dr. X

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    Exactly
  49. amaprez

    amaprez

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    Not sure why you quoted my post in your post. All I did was post some facts about the curriculum that I learned at my interview. I am still waiting for a decision and have no allegiance to Western since I still have other interviews to go to at this point. Sounds like you fundamentally disagree with that school's emphasis on parity, etc. That's certainly your right and I am sure many people would agree with you. Time will tell if they turn out to be top tier school or not. I dont think their first class graduates till 2013 or something.
  50. Podiatry1

    Podiatry1

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    calm down. i didnt mean to quote your post. when you click reply it automatically quotes the post above you unless you manually delete it. my bad.

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